stop W95 from starting "Normal" (the default boot option)

to boot to DOS do the following:
Open the file C:\MSDOS.SYS with a text editor, like notepad.
 You'll probably have to remove the Read-only, System, and Hidden attributes of the file before editing it.
 Find the line that reads BootGUI=1, and change it to BootGUI=0.
Save the file and reboot your computer. Type Win to start Windows95.
This setting can also be changed with TweakUI, one of Microsoft's PowerToys.
to delay indefintely
BootMenuDelay=-1

Turning the bootgui option to 0 will merely prevent the graphical interface from being loaded.  The result is that it will drop you off at a command prompt - not the boot menu

But it will be at the normal option.
I see what you're saying jello. do you have any clues.
I havn't found a way of making the menu stay indefinetly yet.

The best I could suggest would be to set the boot menu to its maximum setting, but that only gives you 99 seconds.  I haven't tried the "-1" thing.  it sounds counter-intuitive, but then, this IS windows we're dealing with. ;)

Even though the F4 key will allow you to boot to the previous operating system without going through the menu (according to tweak UI), I don't see how to implement it during the boot sequence.

I'll report back if I find anything new.

I'd try the -1 and come back to grade. It should have been obvious though...

As for the GUI=0, I think jello is right. It still gives an DOS7 instead of my previous DOS and config.sys/autoexec etc.

I don't have the tweakUI installed so I edited msdos.sys directly. BootMenuDelay=-1 is an invalid setting. BootMenuDelay=0 will boot immediately.

the best way to solve this problem is to create a new boot menu the old way, ie using config.sys and autoexec.bat, to configure a
completly new menu system.

email me at grant@dingley.net

so u can see the general layout to copy from.

or look in the msdos help files

If you set "BootMenuDefault=1" in the MSDOS.SYS file it will always boot to Normal if there is no error in the system. If Booting to the Old DOS is option 6 in your menu then change to "BootMenuDefault=6" (if thats the option number on you menu)
 
On the Delay I have a recollection of a friend duplicating the setting from the Windows 95 Menu in CONFIG.SYS with the same field names as in the 95 menu and he achieved an indefinate delay.  Also try setting the BootMenuDelay to just "=" with nothing after it in the MSDOS.SYS file

Take a look at:
http://ftp.urz.uni-heidelberg.de/inline/xtrct/ftp/pub/simtel_win95/util/95bootr5.zip(95BOOTER.TXT)
You can get 95bootr5.zip at http://ftpsearch.ntnu.no/

q58: you mean I can customize the w95 menu and add my own lines? how?

smeebud. Can access your URL. I am DLing 95boot from other places to have a look. cu l8r.

smeebud. well I mean can't last time. I got it from simtelnet anyway. Seems it does all I needed (and probably more). I'd test it tomorrow (I don't have W95 at home) but it is a busy month so it may take me sometime to grade your answer.

Take you time Irene.
If 95bootr5.zip doesn't do the job for you. Let me know, there are alway other options.

If you add menudefault=Windows in your config.sys
your menu will stay on until you press enter.

[menu]
menuitem=Windows

Sorry I was away that long... We are having Chinese New Year holidays.

BTW, 95booter is very good. However, the "no W95" boot can be more easily done by BootWin=0 in msdos.sys. It is what 95booter is doing. However we met some strange behaviour with the 95booter (like it can't reboot W95 itself). Back to it later.

As for your new suggestion. You really mean config.sys? I haven't tried to touch it yet. Will try it tomorrow back in the office.

Yes, I really mean config.sys.
You can make a menu there to.
If you still have Dos 6.xx, go to that directory to the help
C:\>Help [enter]
tons of menu options.
One being to set a menu that goes nowhere until you tell it to.

but in that case, it is already in previous DOS, no longer a time to choose whether to boot W95.

BTW I heard about a (commercial) product that manages multiple OSes. You can even install multiple W95s on the same partition. The product makes sure they don't step on one another. On booting, it will take control and ask where you want to go...

If you have dos you can do it.

What? I am losing you. You mean by changing the DOS config.sys (config.dos) I can influence whether W95 boots? and what menu is shown on the screen? I think it is the normal DOS one as specified in config.sys. Do you mean I would then have a new entry called W95 that really boots W95?

BTW, on the booter problem I have. Can't contact the author so that is it. The only thing now outstanding is I don't understand what you recently bring up...

Yes you can still boot to 95:
Example.
MENUDEFAULT

Specifies the default menu item on the startup menu and sets a timeout value
if desired. You can use this command only within a menu block in your
CONFIG.SYS file. If you do not use this command, MS-DOS sets the default to
item 1.

The startup menu is a list of choices that appears when you start your
computer. You define a startup menu by using special CONFIG.SYS commands.
Each item on the menu corresponds to a set of CONFIG.SYS commands called a
"configuration block." A startup menu makes it possible to start your
computer with a variety of configurations. For more information about
defining multiple configurations, see the chapter "Configuring Your System"
in the MS-DOS User's Guide.

Syntax

MENUDEFAULT=blockname[,timeout]

Parameters

blockname
Specifies the default menu item by its associated configuration block.
The block must be defined elsewhere in the CONFIG.SYS file. When MS-DOS
displays the startup menu, the default menu item is highlighted and its
number appears after the "Enter a choice" prompt.

timeout
Determines how many seconds MS-DOS waits before starting the computer
with the default configuration. If you don't specify a timeout value,
MS-DOS does not continue until the ENTER key is pressed. You can specify
a timeout value from 0 to 90 seconds. A timeout of 0 forces automatic
selection of the default, effectively bypassing the menu display.

Related Commands

The MENUDEFAULT command is one of six special CONFIG.SYS commands for
defining startup menus and multiple configurations. The other commands are
as follows:

  The <MENUITEM> command, which defines an item on the menu.

  The <MENUCOLOR> command, which defines the color of the menu's text and
screen background.

  The <SUBMENU> command, which defines a submenu.

  The <NUMLOCK> command, which specifies the state of the NUM LOCK key when
the startup menu appears. (Although NUMLOCK can be used anywhere in the
CONFIG.SYS file, it is especially useful when defining a startup menu.)

  The <INCLUDE> command, which includes the contents of one configuration
block in another. This command cannot be included in a menu block.

For an overview of the procedure for defining multiple configurations, see
the topic <Commands for Defining Multiple Configurations>
===========
             MENUITEMÄÄExamples

The following [menu] block defines a startup menu with two items, Apples and
Oranges:

[menu]
menuitem=Apples
menuitem=Oranges

When MS-DOS starts, the menu will appear as follows:

MS-DOS Startup Menu
===================

1. Apples
2. Oranges

Enter a choice: 1

The following [MENU] block defines a startup menu with three items and
specifies menu text for each item:

[menu]
menuitem=base_config,Base configuration only
menuitem=full_config,Normal configuration
menuitem=net_config,Normal configuration with network

In this example, the first item corresponds to the [base_config]
configuration block, the second to the [full_config] block, and the third to
the [net_config] block. When MS-DOS starts, it displays the following menu:

MS-DOS Startup Menu
===================

1. Base configuration only
2. Normal configuration
3. Normal configuration with network

Enter a choice: 1

If you're interested look on your CD for OLD DOS and copy it to a
Dos directory.

I'm not trying to confuse you.
You don't have to do this.

I am follow this far, but can you give a sample config.sys (is it the .DOS one or the .W40 one?) that let me choose whether to boot W95 or DOS6?

Irene, I'd take the_q58 up on his offer.
We are talking about the same thing, he says he;ll set it you for you. Reject my answer and contact him.

The best way to solve this problem is to create a new boot menu the old way, ie using config.sys
and autoexec.bat, to configure a
completly new menu system.

email me at grant@dingley.net

I have no iea what is happening, but seems both smeebud and q58 knows what's going on and so i just followed. q58 do you want to explain here or via email to me?

I have an answer...
please don't get mad at me for jumping in, but i just found this great program called winhack.
it's motto is "tweak windows in ways bill gates never intended".

it also has a startup section.
you can set the default startup option from the menu,
the delay, and the startup delay(?)

anyway, i think it might be the answer you need.  i don't know any definite download sites, but i will email it to you if you drop me a line at theterabyte@hempseed.com
it's pretty small, and a great overall program.

my program answeres at LEAST 70% or your question, because it lets you set the default option(i checked, and previous version of dos is listed), and lets you set the time.  if you can set the time to indefinently, i'm not sure, but i'd experiment.  try 0, and -1.  see if they work.  i know there is no better way other than doing what they were about to have you do(make a new menu with cthe config.sys.  didn't think that was possible in win95, and i think if they do it will make win95 run in dos-compatability mode[baaaad thing] ).

my program answeres at LEAST 70% or your question, because it lets you set the default option(i checked, and previous version of dos is listed), and lets you set the time.  if you can set the time to indefinently, i'm not sure, but i'd experiment.  try 0, and -1.  see if they work.  i know there is no better way other than doing what they were about to have you do(make a new menu with cthe config.sys.  didn't think that was possible in win95, and i think if they do it will make win95 run in dos-compatability mode[baaaad thing] ).

please contact me about obtaining the program, thaknx, theTerabyte

I think it just helps me to edit the msdos.sys. I've tried 0 and -1 and neither worked (see comments above). I think it would be just the same as smeebud's solution (unless you give more information). I was wondering why q58 still hasn't add a voice back here...

Irene,
have you written him/her at grant@dingley.net

No. I'd try. I thought he would do it here.

I tried. Got a bounced mail. User unknown.

really, Irene, this is a cool program, and only 64K.  drop me an e-mail and i'd be glad to send it to you.

You should try it.... it's got an easy to use interface, and no messing with configuration files...

I don't mind messing with files. But is the program equivalent to smeebud's 95bootop? it just gives a good interface to editing the (w95) config.sys. If it only does that, then I shouldn't accept the answer, since I had been asked to reject smeebud's. If it does something differnt (like q58 referring to changing the DOS config.sys and allowing user to start W95 from the DOS config.sys menu, then I would like to try it.

well, you don't have to accept it until you try it, but i ask that you do.  i'm not sure how it accomplishes what it does, but i think it changes the system files, not config.sys.  I can say, however, that i think using the config.sys option is a bad idea, call it something deep in my computer tech's gut.... instinct, if you will.....

anyway, e-mail me and i'll send it to you, after evaluating it, if it helps you accept my answer, and if u don't like it reject...  the nice thing is that it does other things also....

OK. I'd try it. What is your email addr?

theterabyte@hempseed.com

In the mean time, I have found a copy of WinHack. You are right about the GUI and tons of options it provides, but in my case, it does nothing other than updating the (w95) config.sys. I am no problem editing it myself, just that I can't find a value that suits.

Since I have rejected the 95booter, which does exactly the same thing (much less, but the rest of WinHact is irrelevant to my question), I am sorry I have to reject yours.

Not that it doesn't solve any part of my problem. I nearly accepted the 95booter in the first place. I am still waiting for q58 to say something.

BTW, the lowest acceptible value for the timeout delay is 1 seconds. no 0 no -1. Largest is 30. WinHack at least confirm me on that. 95booter OTOH just updates whatever value I specifies and crashes next time when it reads a out-of-bound value.

Well, glad it was able to help at least a little, and i'm sure you'll keep it around for when that drearly named 'recycle bin' gets boring :-)

anyway, always glad to help, theTerabyte

You are right. It is a good program. Just that it doesn't handle my problem. Maybe it is just impossible.

Hi Irene
Isn't the 1st part of your answer in Smeebud's...

MENUDEFAULT=blockname[,timeout]

??

And, the 2nd part...

BootMenuDefault=7 (or whatever "previous version...." is.)

Regards

Sorry folks if I'm being a little presumptious suggesting that MINE is the answer.

Irene I'm happy to refer to my prop. answ. as a comment. :)

Irene,
Boot to real dos mode.
At the C:\> type
EXIT. it should say bad command.
Post results.

smeebud: I'd try it tomorrow in the office. However, I believe I have done it (inadvertently) before and it hangs. Confirm later.

As I said, q58 hasn't appear and his posted email bounces. If he still doesn't, smeebud just post an answer and I would accept you.

Irene...

I read all the posts here, and I see that you were looking for a utility that will let you install several copies of windows on the same system.

Well I have it and already e-mailed to few people here across this site and it works great.
Now if you feel that this is your solution I could e-mail it to you.

Regards

rene,
     Boot to real dos mode.
     At the C:\> type
     EXIT. it should say bad command.
     Post results.

Smeebud: sorry haven't test yet. Will try within the week.

magigraf: yes, and with a (better still customisable) menu to select among the Windows. Can you post a bit of description of your solution.

Irene...

Well I didn't try it myself, so I can't tell how it works.
What I could do is to :
e-mail it to you for your own evaluation if you leave an e-mail address

Regards

I think I have just stumbled on a partial answer to this one.   I was installing a new disk in a computer and had FDISKed and FORMATted it in another machine as a Secondary Master.  I also SYSed the drive which was E:.  Then from a Tape Backup I coppied ALL the data back to the drive, then I removed the Primary Master and Primary slave so I could  set the Primary Partition and test that the drive booted.  
 
The end of the story is that when I booted it the drive all worked but would sit at the DOS Prompt and would not start Windows 95.
 
I looked in the MSDOS.SYS file and there it was, the MSDOS.SYS file was as it is on a Floppy Disk with the only entry  ":SYS"  without the "Rabbit Ears"
 
I intend testing this further to see what you can or cannot add to the MSDOS.SYS file.  I am suspecting that the SET lines will be a "No No" but other settings will be OK.  I'll let you all know.  
 
I realise that this does not get us Booting to the Previous Version of DOS but it may assist.  BTW I understand from something I read recently that it may be only possible to Boot to the previous Version once with OSR/2.

Why when reading through this epilogue again do I have a sense of DajeVu?  There seem to be instances where a suggestion previously made is effectively reposted by another user.  Irene when you do eventually sort this one out don't get caught out by that "old trick" or is it just that people are not reading what others have already posted.

No. Nothing happens. Type EXIT and I get another C:\

I have just noticed a typo in what I wrote before, I said:
 

>>I looked in the MSDOS.SYS file and there it was, the MSDOS.SYS file was as it
>>is on a Floppy Disk with the only entry  ":SYS"  without the "Rabbit Ears"
 
The line for the MSDOS.SYS file should have been ";SYS"
 
Sorry about that.        

if all you want is a way to easily boot multiple OS's and have the boot screen stay up indefinitely a program called system commander does it for about 50 bucks

Oh I was not specific last time. The "not work" applies to smeebud's "exit" command.

khemicals. I am looking for a free solution. But if the program and stay and let user choose between W95 and W31 they may consider paying. Please supply a little details on what the program does.

BootMenu=1 will force this menu up. BootMenuDefault=8 (for option number normally used for previous version of Dos. For Delay set BootMenuDelay=0 (indefinite).

Irene..  My comment still applies about people submitting answers without reading what has already past.  I hope you will reread previous comments before evaluating the current answer as I know the suggestion of setting the value of BootMenuDefault has in fact been made before.  The content of the message was as follows:
 

>>                                                              Date: 09:49PM - January, 20, 1998 PST
>>
>>If you set "BootMenuDefault=1" in the MSDOS.SYS file it will always boot to Normal if there is no error in the system. If Booting to the Old DOS is option 6 in your menu then change to "BootMenuDefault=6" (if thats the option number on you menu)
         

You are right. But this page is so long that it takes real long time to DL and read. the delay=0 didn't work.

smeebud. Please say your 95booter again and I'd accept it.

Irene,

 please check http://www.v-com.com for system commander deluxe, one of the best boot managers around. it's commercial program for under 30$.

 Some info from them:
System Commander Deluxe allows you to install and run any combination of PC-compatible operating systems, including Windows 95/98, Windows 3.x, Windows NT, DOS, OS/2, and all of the PC compatible Unixes. You can easily and safely upgrade from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95/98, Windows NT, or any other PC compatible OS, while your current OS is retained - without change - for immediate use.
... and if U interested: Maximum number of OSes 100+ :)

 Happy1

It has been suggested before and I have answer before. I am looking for a free solution. Please read all the comments before answering.

Hi Irene,

LILO is a boot loader that comes with LINUX and it's free.  You don't need to install LINUX to use it either.  You would need to have your previous OS version on a different partition to 95 mind which could cause you a problem.
You would have to download some of the LINUX resource from a sunsite mirror.  I don't know off hand which parts you would need, but if you drop me an email I'll find out for you. Cheers.

Ooops... stupid me.... my email address is  johnheywood@earthling.net

Please clarify. Do I need W95/W31 on different partitions? Can I keep one single partition on the whole disk? Do I need Linux?

Does the utility display any message that can't be customized? My user can easily be scared.

finally you come back.
Yes I loaded it many times before I get down to here when I can accept.
bye for now :)

PS I just noticed that you are suggesting two other software! and the first one is in Chinese. You read Chinese?

I'm DL9ng the con97, but I can't find any BOOTMNGR.EXE. would try again later.

Oh I forget to click the accept ....

haven't tried con97 yet, but I believe it must be very good.

FYI, the bootmngr is just another msdos.ini GUI editor.

As for the con97, it is interesting. Now I understand what q58 was saying. Really use config.sys [menu] in W95. However, the so called DOS/W31 started is not very pure. At DOS prompt, it says Windows 95 instead of DOS6. I am not sure whether it is doing the same thing. I am sure some programs (like my games) won't run under DOS7. Otherwise, I might as well edit the autoexec so that it won't start the WIN and get a DOS. Therefore I think smeebud's original answer (95booter) is the best.