asked on

Windows keeps crashing

Since I upgraded to Win 95 with an OEM (OSR2) CD installation I have had constant problems with crashes. These occur both within application as simple as Windows Notepad or in Netscape Communicator or when JUST Windows is sitting there with no applications running.

The Blue Screen of Death info that most often comes up (This is from crashes with nothing laoded & Windows unattended:)

Windows
Fatal Exception OE at 0028:C028B499 in VXD IFSMGR (04) + 00013D21. The Current application will be terminated.

Then after I pressed a key:

Windows
Fatal Exception OE at 1A37:011F6B67. Current aplication will be terminated.

The addresses are sometimes different with differetn applications, but the address 0028:something is almost always the culprit.

I have tried reinstalling Win 95 completely new. having disabled the old UPGRADE over Win 3.1

The above crashes were with this new virgin Win95b OEM installation.

PC Medic reports the following when it has managed to intercept crashes (this time When Netscape Communicator 4.04 is running:)

NETSCAPE.EXE caused exception 0xC0000005 in module NETSCAPE.EXE at 0137:004608E3

Registers:
EAX=0x00000125 EBX=0x00000000 ECX=0x0045E716 EDX=0x00C0CAD0
EBP=0x00A3F6C8 ESP=0x00a3f6bc EIP=0x004608E3 FLG=0x00010202
CS =0x00000137 DS =0x0000013F ES =0x0000013F SS =0x0000013F
EDI=0x00BEDD50 ESI=0x00000000 GS =0x00000000 FS =0x0000237F

Stack Dump:
00a3f6bc: 00 00 00 00 20 ca c0 00 - 00 00 00 00 fc f6 a3 00 .... ...........
00a3f6cc: 9a d2 45 00 16 e7 45 00 - 50 dd be 00 20 ca c0 00 ..E...E.P... ...
00a3f6dc: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 91 d8 c0 00 20 ca c0 00 ............ ...
00a3f6ec: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - d0 ca c0 00 20 ca c0 00 ............ ...

Bytes at CS:IP
004608e3: 8b 38 85 ff 74 07 8b 4f - 20 89 08 eb 20 68 9c 00

Currently Running Programs:
KERNEL32 C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KERNEL32.DLL
MSGSRV32 C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSGSRV32.EXE
Mprexe C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MPREXE.EXE
MMTASK C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\mmtask.tsk
Explorer C:\WINDOWS\EXPLORER.EXE
WATCHDOG C:\Scntstic\PRIVSUIT\BIN\WATCHDOG.EXE
Systray C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\SYSTRAY.EXE
Ndetect C:\PROGRAM FILES\ICQ\NDETECT.EXE
Rxmenu C:\PROGRAM FILES\MCAFEE\PC MEDIC 97\RXMENU.EXE
RXCTCH16 c:\program files\mcafee\pc medic 97\rxctch16.exe
Netscape C:\NETSCAPE\COMMUNICATOR\PROGRAM\NETSCAPE.EXE
Rxctch32 C:\PROGRAM FILES\MCAFEE\PC MEDIC 97\RXCTCH32.EXE

Memory Details:
Memory Utilization : 97%
Total Physical Memory : 15 MB
Available Physical Memory : 0 MB
Total Pagefile : 34 MB
Available Pagefile : 21 MB
Total Virtual Memory: : 2093 MB
Available Virtual Memory: : 2083 MB

2nd crash:

NETSCAPE.EXE caused exception 0xC0000005 in module NETSCAPE.EXE at 0137:004608E3

Registers:
EAX=0x00000120 EBX=0x00000000 ECX=0x0045E716 EDX=0x00000000
EBP=0x00A3EE64 ESP=0x00a3ee58 EIP=0x004608E3 FLG=0x00010202
CS =0x00000137 DS =0x0000013F ES =0x0000013F SS =0x0000013F
EDI=0x00C1C940 ESI=0x00000000 GS =0x00000000 FS =0x0000237F

Stack Dump:
00a3ee58: 00 00 00 00 e0 92 bd 00 - 00 00 00 00 98 ee a3 00 ................
00a3ee68: 9a d2 45 00 16 e7 45 00 - 40 c9 c1 00 e0 92 bd 00 ..E...E.@.......
00a3ee78: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 10 fe c0 00 e0 92 bd 00 ................
00a3ee88: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 10 fe c0 00 e0 92 bd 00 ................

Bytes at CS:IP
004608e3: 8b 38 85 ff 74 07 8b 4f - 20 89 08 eb 20 68 9c 00

Currently Running Programs:
KERNEL32 C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KERNEL32.DLL
MSGSRV32 C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSGSRV32.EXE
Mprexe C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MPREXE.EXE
MMTASK C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\mmtask.tsk
Explorer C:\WINDOWS\EXPLORER.EXE
WATCHDOG C:\Scntstic\PRIVSUIT\BIN\WATCHDOG.EXE
Systray C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\SYSTRAY.EXE
Ndetect C:\PROGRAM FILES\ICQ\NDETECT.EXE
Rxmenu C:\PROGRAM FILES\MCAFEE\PC MEDIC 97\RXMENU.EXE
RXCTCH16 c:\program files\mcafee\pc medic 97\rxctch16.exe
Netscape C:\NETSCAPE\COMMUNICATOR\PROGRAM\NETSCAPE.EXE
Rxctch32 C:\PROGRAM FILES\MCAFEE\PC MEDIC 97\RXCTCH32.EXE

Memory Details:
Memory Utilization : 100%
Total Physical Memory : 15 MB
Available Physical Memory : 0 MB
Total Pagefile : 33 MB
Available Pagefile : 14 MB
Total Virtual Memory: : 2093 MB
Available Virtual Memory: : 2083 MB

I also got that kind of problem a month ago after someone nuking me and I just reinstalled my windows again. It's working fine now. My suggestion is backup your important files first, then try to reinstall your win95. Good luck!

robandrw

How did you upgrade your system?
OEM versions are for installation on a NEW system and are not designed to upgrade existing systems.
If you did an install over an existing system it is not a surprise you are having problems.
I would suggest that you save your your data files, then reformat your hard disk and reinstall Windows.

dew_associates

Robandrw: Your answer is a comment, not a solution.

danw95, this can be fixed but it's going to take some work. Reject the proposed answer and I'll post a choice of procedures to follow to correct this without formatting your system and starting over.
Dennis

danw95

ASKER

Thankyou to Robandrw for his reply but I made it very clear that this was a VIRGIN install that is crashing, a new installation, without any type of upgrade from Win 3.1 or involvement with that old system. You are addressing a situation that does not apply to me. (You can make Win95b OSR2 upgrade Win 3.1 with the OEMUP=1 workaround BUT I DID NOT USE THAT UPGRADE WORKAROUND IN THIS CASE).

I made the new install by renaming the Win.com file on the old one and installing to a diffewrent logical drive. The new installation has no references to the deactivated old one and I have checked that no DOS or Windows boot or ini file references the old installation, which is on another logical drive.

Someone suggested I had a hardware problem with my memory controller. But these crashes never occured before the move to Win 95. Under DOS 6.22 /Win 3.1 the computer (a 486/66 with 16 Mb physical RAM was rock solidly reliable.)

danw95

ASKER

It should again be noted that Windows is crashing without any applications loaded and only McAfee Crash monitor in the Startup folder.

danw95

ASKER

I also need to add that if the Blue Screen of Death with the abovementioned data is just left, then after about five minutes the computer does a spontaneous full reboot which always locks up as Windows is loading.
The system sometimes crashes also during a user initiated shut-down process with a Blue Screen.

smeebud

Temporarily turn of Mcafee, and PC Medic.

dew_associates

I agree Bud! Sounds like either a memory problem or other hardware issue!
Dennis

calger

Well, this is going to sound non-standard, but anyway....

Dan - uninstall your ICQ. I have seen similar problems with it causing Fatal Exceptions, Protection Errors and Page Faults. It might not be the root cause - but it is definitely a symptom. If it seems to get a little better - or even fixed after this - try downloading the latest version of ICQ from Mirabilis.

elno

Dan:

I have had these kind of problems too, from upgrading from v950 to v1111 (OSR2). What I found out is that my FAT is still FAT16, and not FAT32, as OSR2 would prefer it to be. But this only works with drives >520Mb. I know for a fact that even on FAT16, OSR2 should work fine, but I didn't want to take the risk again, so I always use FAT32 where applicable. BTW, this is done with the Win95B fdisk utility.

However, you didn't mention if you did fdisk under win95b with the supplied setup disk, etc.; and the size of your drive(s).

Hope you find this useful..

:)Matt

ASKER CERTIFIED SOLUTION

foxeye

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Come on foxeye.....

haha

Well, I've seen worse =)

calger

haha again - no doubt.....

smeebud

good you've a sence of humor foxeye;)

foxeye

Haha, I almost got the same answer when I told my Internet-provider support-guy that my system crashed when I disconnected from their server. He though for a while and then said "Try running scandisk" =) Some support huh

dew_associates

Dan: You state that you installed OSR2 into an environment that had Win 3.xx on it but that you have tried reinstalling Win 95 completely new. having disabled the old UPGRADE over Win 3.1. The above crashes were with this new virgin Win95b OEM installation. Does this mean that you formatted the hard drive and reinstalled OSR2 fresh? There's some fixes for the errors your seeing, but I don't want to make things worse if the install over 3.xx is there.
Dennis

danw95

ASKER

Well I have finally found the problem.

I while before I upgraded to Win 95 I upgraded the CPU from the original 33MHz 486 DX chip to a 66Mhz overdrive.
It was tested extensively in the DOS 6.22 / Win3.1 environment and I had just accepted that the system had accepted it. Everyone i said told me that Win 95 needs 66 Mhz and runs very slowly at 33 Mhz.
Yesterday I put the old 33 Mhz chip back in and all the errors and crashing stopped.
Did anyone work out why the crashes always occured at address page 0028:[something]?
Pity I can't run the system at 66MHz, but I haven't noticed much difference so far, just in photo presentation. (Hold the boat anchor jokes PLEASE).

dew_associates

Danw95, post the exact overdrive chip info and I'll post the fix info for you. Overdrive chips do work, but install can be a pain.
Dennis

danw95

ASKER

Well, dew_associates are giving some hope that I can get this system accepting the 486 66MHz Overdrive CPU.

My system is made for either a 33MHz or a 50 Mhz 486 CPU.

I get wildly conflicting advice from the computer stores, as to whether an overdrive CPU will work with my system, including from the store at which I bought the system and from people with no financial interest in the outcome.

The cons say "the system was made for a 33 or a 50 and that's it."
The pros say that "the overdrive chip takes into account old motherboards and will work."

Here are the system and chip details:

486DX BIOS INFORMATION:

Bootup Screen info:

ROM BIOS (c) 1990 American Megatrends Inc.
#41111392AY

(c) American Megatrends Inc
40-0101-DI1283-00101111-070791-AMI-0

Info on the actual BIOS chip:

AMIBIOS
American Megatrends
486DX ISA BIOS
AA1613856

The 486 / 66 overdrive chip has this information on it:

Intel (R)
Overdrive (TM)

DX20DPR66
C4420594
SZ904 V3.0
M (C) 1989 1992

will this CPU work in my motherboard?

thankyou,

Danw95

smeebud

Dan,
Where do these memory stats come from?
Memory Details:
Memory Utilization : 100%
Total Physical Memory : 15 MB
Available Physical Memory : 0 MB
Total Pagefile : 33 MB
Available Pagefile : 14 MB
Total Virtual Memory: : 2093 MB
Available Virtual Memory: : 2083 MB

danw95

ASKER

To smeebud: the stats there come from Mcafee PC Medic that I had running during the crashes and also I disabled to see if it was causing any trouble: it wasn't.

Given that the trouble is now certainly traced to the 66MHz overdrive CPU, (which ran fine uner Win 3.1) I would be interested if anyone can tell what did go wrong from the stats, so that I can get the 66 MHz CPU going reliably (see above).

thankyou

dew_associates

Dan, I'd like you to try something. Right click the Start button, then click Open and then click the Programs icon. Click on the Startup icon to open it. Click on, hold and drag all of the icons in there out onto the desktop and then close everything and restart the computer and try the programs that crashed before.
Dennis

danw95

ASKER

To dew_assocoiates:

Are you suggesting I put the 66 MHz overdrive CPU back in and try emptying the startup folder. Remember I already tried doing that while I was still running the Overdrive CPU. The system still crashed, just sitting there it crashed as Windows modules like USER and certain VXDs triggered OEs.
I have not had a problem since moving back to the old 33 MHz CPU. It's just unfortunate there is a slowdown in the handling of complex graphics.

dew_associates

Dan: Here's my thoughts. I want to reduce as many of the programs out of the startup to remove them from the memory handlers and then look at those handlers to see why it's crashing. I went through Intel's site plus our own OEM database for Intel and saw no reason why this processor should not work (presuming that you matched it correctly with the board when you purchased it). Given this, the next issue becomes memory handling. Stack dumps are signs of upper memory conflicts which causes the stack to dump everything in memory (Old Dos issues). It effects Windows NT today. Next, I would have liked to make some specific memory allocations like to video and then restructure the upper memory areas. For this, I would ask that Smeebud continue.
Dennis

smeebud

While we work dan, how about getting this little utility.
DllShow.Zip
[File Dependencies, Printout and Excellent Resource Meter.]
See and download at http://www.execpc.com/~sbd/ OR
http://www.execpc.com/~sbd/DLLShow.html
I like it better than Norton Utilities Resource meter.
It shows how much ram is used, when ram is used up it shows where your swapfile takes over and how much free. and GDI.
===========
The real beauty of this utility is it shows whats running in the background that doesn't show in the 'End task" screen,
Plus, [you'll like this Dennis] it's memory module allocation.
-------
Startup Messages @ Things Running [My database title:))]
Sometimes, WIN95 isntall doesnt recognize existing drivers
and leaves them alone; thus Leaving apps or Drivers Running.
Here are some things you can check
off the top. EDIT then SAVE these files:

Config.sys - see if there is a reference to the driver..
if so.. type REM at the beginning of the line

autoexec.bat - see if there is a reference to the driver..
if so.. type REM at the beginning of the line

system.ini - do a FIND on the driver.. for all references ,
type a SEMI-COLON at the beginning of the line

Shutdown the computer, restart..see if the error is gone.

Sometimes, OEM's have there own idea of startup files
( ACER is one ) The offending driver might also be in
these types of files.

Also, some older devices ( Sound/Video cards etc...)
need these drivers. If WIN95 successfully boots, but
some devices dont work, you may have to re-install
the drivers/software ( Always try and use WIN95
versions of the drivers/software..these ususally can be
found at the device maker's web site.)
Also Check these places in your registry
OTHER PLACES THAT CAUSE LOADING DEVICES:
NOTE: BACKUP YOUR REGISTRY BEFORE ENTERING
AND CHANGING!!!
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\ Windows\CurrentVersion\Run
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\ Windows\CurrentVersion\Run
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\ Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnce
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\ Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnce
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\ Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServices
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\ Windows\CurrentVersion\ RunServicesOnce
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\ Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnce\ Setup
If you have questions about your registry let me know.

OR Method 2:
(Software developers have a whole lotta
nerve to assume this is a convenience. They should ask first.)
There are three places where you can try to stop this annoyance:

1. The Startup folder. This is the most obvious location for a
program reference. Right-mouse click on Start, select Open,
double-click on Programs, then double-click on Startup. If you see
a shortcut to the annoying program inside, delete it.

Your WIN.INI file. Select Start, Run, type
" sysedit " no qoutes

and click on OK. Inside the System Configuration Editor, make the
WIN.INI window active and look for a "run=" or "load=" line under
the [windows] section. Programs referred to on these lines load at
startup.

2. Remove the reference to the
annoying program, and save your change. (If not, have your local
computer guru help you. WIN.INI is a very important file and
should not be messed with unless you know what you're doing.)

3. The Registry. Select Start, Run, type
" regedit " no qoutes

and click on OK to open the Registry Editor. Navigate your way to
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RUN.
In the right pane, you'll find programs that load when Windows 95
starts. Right-mouse click on the one giving you grief, select
Delete, and close the Registry Editor. (As always, before editing
the Registry, back it up. One way is to zip your System.dat and
User.dat files and store them on a floppy disk.)

4. Check your autoexec.bat file to see if you have any loading
calls there for the program.

Whichever method you used, restart Windows 95

danw95

ASKER

Thankyou to dew associates and smeebud for the detailed approach to getting the 66Mhz overdrive going.
I haven't had time to read through smeebud's in it's entirety, but I should note again that this motherboard is one of those early 486 motherboards that was made for either a 33Mhz or a 50 Mhz chip (remember the days when Intel called the 50 Mhz 486 chip the "486DX/2" chip?
So the 66Mhz chip is not spcifically matched with the motherboard.
With the massive development in technology since I got this motherboard in 1993 there are very few dealers who even remember that far back.
I bought the 66Mhz Overdrive chip (which has the surprisingly old copyright dates of 1989 and 1992 stamped on it - but not a date of manufacture).
The details on the chip are listed above. Also on the back of the chip are more cryptic numbers on paper stickers:

SH 13231

and

AC
A0031294
VOID IF BROKEN

If that is any help.
I'll have a go at smeebud's suggestions, if you still feel that I can get this 66Mhx Overdrive going reliably with this type of motherbioard and the type of AMIBIOS it has, (details noted in my previous posting).

thankyou again

at the very least we are adding to the accumulated understanding of the still venerable 486 chip

dew_associates

Dan, if possible, please give me all the motherboard info you can either from the board, docs or both.
Dennis

danw95

ASKER

Motherboard info as requested by dew_associates:
{as stamped on the motherboard which has the dimensions: 12.6" x 7.87" or 32cm x 20 cm)

PKM-0031Y
Made in Taiwan
PKM-3331YA
486 Cache 50Mhz

dew_associates

When you boot this board and the Bios screen comes up, touch the pause key. Down in the lower left hand corner there should be some Bios data, could you post it please!

danw95

ASKER

The boot screen information is in the mass of data above, here it is again:

Here are the system and chip details:

486DX BIOS INFORMATION:

Bootup Screen info:
Top of screen:
ROM BIOS (c) 1990 American Megatrends Inc.
#41111392AY

Bottom of screen:
(c) American Megatrends Inc
40-0101-DI1283-00101111-070791-AMI-0

Info on the actual BIOS chip:

AMIBIOS
American Megatrends
486DX ISA BIOS
AA1613856

The 486 / 66 overdrive chip has this information on it:

Intel (R)
Overdrive (TM)

DX20DPR66
C4420594
SZ904 V3.0
M (C) 1989 1992

dew_associates

Okay Dan, thanks, I'll check the board out and nail down if you can or can't do as you want.