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WIN95 does not map slave drive

Posted on 1998-01-31
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Last Modified: 2013-12-16
I just replaced my c: drive and installed WIN95.  However, WIN95 does not allow me to access my slave drive on the primary EIDE channel (secondary channel is empty).  My BIOS auto-detects it fine, but Device Manager shows it as an unknown IDE drive and it doesn't appear in Windows Explorer.
When I swap in my old c: drive and boot into DOS6.22 / WFW 3.11, the slave maps properly to the d: drive.
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Question by:kmoon
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by:magigraf
ID: 1754100
kmoon...

Do I have to presume that your slave drive is jumpered properly as SLAVE and your Primary disk as MASTER/SLAVE PRESENT??

You said you BIOS autodetect the drive, does FDISK sees it too, and reports it correctly??

Waiting for your post.
Regards
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by:kmoon
ID: 1754101
All drives are jumpered correctly.  FDISK (in a Win95 DOS window) reports the drive correctly.  Also, before installing Win95, I booted the same drive config with DOS 6.22 on the c: drive.  No problem accessing the slave.
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by:magigraf
ID: 1754102
kmoon..

Could you post here your startup files??
(Autoexec.bat, config.sys)
Regards
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by:magigraf
ID: 1754103
kmoon...

Then we will try that drive on the Second IDE channel as Primary secondary. (you have to have a second separate hard drive cable to connect it to the second channel alone, and don't forget to change the jumper on the drive.)

I want to double check if it would make a difference or not.
Regards
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by:kmoon
ID: 1754104
Yeah, I've been meaning to try it as secondary channel master, but keep forgetting.  I will try that & be back in a few minutes.

Also, your 2nd to last comment gives me an idea - I forgot about the config.sys & autoexec.bat files left in the root from the DOS installation.  I will try renaming them since Win95 (esp. a new installation) usually keeps this info in the registry unless they are required for a legacy app.  Maybe I have some transparent conflict between these & the registry ...
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by:magigraf
ID: 1754105
kmoon...
My bag is still full, don't worry! ;-)
Regards
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by:kmoon
ID: 1754106
Damn!  I have no idea what I did with my documentation for the old drive, so I couldn't try it on the secondary channel.  I just got the specs from the Seagate site, though, so I'll try that next time I power down.

Renaming the startup files to boot only from the registry was no help.  Here they are anyway, in case they are useful to you:

Config.sys:
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
rem DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN
device=C:\WINDOWS\emm386.exe ram
BUFFERS=40,0
FILES=50
DOS=UMB
FCBS=16,8
DEVICEHIGH /L:2,12048 =C:\WINDOWS\SETVER.EXE
DOS=HIGH
SHELL=C:\COMMAND.COM C:\ /E:1024 /p
DEVICEHIGH /L:2,13856 =C:\SB16\DRV\SBCD.SYS /D:MSCD001 /P:220
DEVICEHIGH /L:2,9072 =C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\ANSI.SYS

autoexec:
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
@ECHO OFF
LH /L:2,6384 C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\DOSKEY /INSERT
SET SOUND=C:\SB16
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P300 T6
C:\SB16\SBCONFIG.EXE /S
C:\SB16\SB16SET /M:220 /VOC:220 /CD:220 /MIDI:220 /LINE:220 /TREBLE:0
PROMPT $P$G
PATH C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\DOS;c:\MOUSE
SET TEMP=C:\temp
SET TZ=EST5EDT
PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;E:\BC45\BIN;%PATH%

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by:magigraf
ID: 1754107
kmoon...

That's not it, and you renamed them to no results.
Let's focus on that secondary channel.
When you get the drive connected, what documentations did you need??
just connect it, an set it to master, the info are on the drive itself.

Let me know what happened
Regards
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by:kmoon
ID: 1754108
Sorry, what I meant was I didn't have the list of jumper settings until I got them from Seagate.  I know it is jumpered properly as slave, because I set it up that way when I originally installed it, and it works fine in WFW and DOS.  I'll let you know how it works ...
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by:kmoon
ID: 1754109
Hmmm... The jumper settings I got from the Seagate site do not seem to work (though the slave settings given match what I have).  Neither Win95 nor DOS recognizes the drive on the secondary channel.  I tried several different jumper settings to no avail.  I will experiment further, but I expect this to take some time, as there are 3 jumper blocks of 14, 4 and 4 pins.  I think I will treat this as a secondary priority for now, as I can simply copy the data over to the new drive (in DOS / WFW) if I have to.  Will let you know when I get it figured out.
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by:kmoon
ID: 1754110
Almost forgot - I know the secondary channel is working because I first put the new drive on it as master, with my 2 older drives on the primary channel.
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by:magigraf
ID: 1754111
kmoon...
Could you tell me what's the model number of the Seagate drive??
Regards
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by:yronnen
ID: 1754112
Try downloading the new IDE driver from intel (that is, if you have an Intel chipset).

you can find it at the intel developers site (I think its developer.intel.com).
These are the new Bus Master drivers. Maybe it will help.
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by:kmoon
ID: 1754113
The drive is a Medalist 1080M, model #ST31220A.  It was marketed under the Reveal brand name.  As to my chipset, it is not Intel, but a VXpro PCIset.  I'm also using Award BIOS, 7/97 or 8/97 revision (forget which).
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by:kmoon
ID: 1754114
Whoops, forgot something - the drive is type B.
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by:magigraf
ID: 1754115
kmoon...

What's wrong?? you're not lucky
3COM and Seagate sites BOTH do not respond...

I still believe that you've got to check on that secondary channel.  It does not make sence that one drive will work and the other won't..

Keep in touch, till I check tose jumpers..

I hate to believe that this drives don't work together.  We have seen few combinations, and MAYBE these drives don't work side by side.

I don't want to call it off yet, I'm still willing to work more if you have the will too.

Update please,
Regards
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by:kmoon
ID: 1754116
You're right - I do need to try it on the secondary channel.  I don't think it's a drive incompatibility (unless it's Win95-induced,) because the same config worked for me with DOS installed on the c:, before my Win95 installation.  

Anyway, Seagate seems to be up, as I just hit it.  It's USR that's beginning to annoy me :)
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by:magigraf
ID: 1754117
kmoon...

That seagate site is not happening with me.
I'll lock the question for now as I agreed to provide help.
I'll check on it first thing in the morning.
Regards
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Author Comment

by:kmoon
ID: 1754118
I appreciate it.  I must admit I haven't spent much effort on this the last couple of days (okay - no effort :)  I was focusing on the modem thing Sunday & spent yesterday evening installing software in Win95, now that I'm reasonably sure I won't have to reinstall the OS, at least for a while.  I'll check back tomorrow evening (no net access @ work - can you believe it in a 10,000+ employee company?)
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by:magigraf
ID: 1754119
kmoon...

It might be chaotic.. and in the same time a pleasure.. (forced break)
Will wait for updates
Regards
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by:kmoon
ID: 1754120
Okay - I finally got off my ass & tried again.  The jumper combination that worked was the first one I tried (the one Seagate has listed).  The jumper or cable must have been loose the first time.

Anyway, with the drive as master/no slave on the secondary channel, the situation is the same: BIOS & FDISK detect the drive but Win95 fails to map it.
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by:magigraf
ID: 1754121
kmoon...

Something is not right here.
If we had to assume that they are not compatible, why is your BIOS detecting BOTH??

Could you try these combinations again:
Master and secondary (primary channel)
Master and Master (primary and secondary channel)

If you have a CD-ROM, please disconnect it from the system while testing these combinations.

Regards
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Author Comment

by:kmoon
ID: 1754122
Disconnected CD, tried master/slave and master/master.  Same result - BIOS detects, FDISK detects, Win does not map.  Removed Soundblaster (CD connects to SB16), tried both ways - same result.  Tried manually setting up in BIOS (both ways, SB16 removed) - same result.  

The drive has been showing up properly in Device Manager for several days now - tried changing Device Manager settings (Disconnect, Sync Data Transfer) - no change.  Tried setting up as removable in Device Manager - drive maps but is reported as unformatted.

The drive continues to work fine when I swap in my old master drive & boot to DOS.
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by:magigraf
ID: 1754123
kmoon..

Let's try something different here.

I understand that the old drive has DOS + Win3.X right??

So what we will do here is to create a NEW directory called:

OLD_C on the new drive which is now C:\

I want you to copy ALL DIRECTORIES with their SUB DIRECTORIES
to that directory.
Of course in order to do that, you would have to set the old as Master and the new as Slave.

After doing so, you will hook them back the way you have them now.

And in windows you will try to FORMAT the OLD drive. (which has DOS + WIN3.x).

I guess windows will be happy now.

Now you could move, all your OLD_C into the root of D:\

I see for now no other solution to this BIZARE ordeal..
Post your feedback please.
Regards
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Author Comment

by:kmoon
ID: 1754124
This is indeed a bizarre problem.

Allow me to clarify, as there seems to be come confusion - I have 3 drives: current master (Win95 boot), current slave (non-boot FAT16 that Win95 does not map), old master (DOS boot - removed from system).  I directly replaced the DOS boot drive with the current Win95 boot drive.  When I swap in the old (DOS boot) drive as master, the current slave is usable in both DOS & WFW 3.11.

I hate to reformat the slave at this point, because Win95 maps it only when I set it up in Device Manager as *removable* (this is when Win95 tells me it is unformatted, though DOS still maps it).  This would be a strange method of setting up a HD, and one which I would prefer to avoid if at all possible.

I am going to re-open the question in case anyone else has seen a similar situation.

K.
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1754125
KMoon, were you using any form of compression of the WFW hard drive? Doublespace, Drivespace etc?
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by:Smedley
ID: 1754126
This may seem a very "basic" things to ask but here goes anyway.  Have you tried in "SAFE MODE" to see what Device Manager is seeing of the Drives and Controllers.  I have had a number of instances where clearing out ALL the Drives and after that ALL the Drive Controllers that an unstable situation has been fixed.  Not that I have seen what you are telling us but it may be worth a try as a search for new Hardware after everything has been removed could clear it up.  This can be applied to other hardware as well as drives.  Also am I understanding correctly that Windows 95 DOS Command Prompt (From F8 at Boot Up) sees ALL the drives correctly.
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Author Comment

by:kmoon
ID: 1754127
The drive has never been compressed.

Safe mode is no different from normal boot - Device Mgr shows drive, but it is not mapped.  I have reinstalled Win95 twice (3 installs total), most recently with a bare system, adding peripherals later.  No change, though Device Mgr always shows both HDs as generic for a couple of boots.  Most recently, on the 3rd or 4th boot, Device Mgr showed each drive *twice* - once as generic and once with the correct description (I removed the generic descriptions).

Win95 DOS prompt, whether from boot menu or window, does *not* show the slave drive.  It is usable only when I boot from a DOS 6.22 (only prev. version I still have) floppy or my old (retired) DOS 6.22 / WFW 3.11 hard drive.  However, BIOS always detects properly, and FDISK and Dev. Mgr. find it.

Something I failed to mention - the DOS 6.22 HD and floppy both run (from autoexec.bat) Microhouse 528+ MB driver, as my old motherboard / BIOS did not support LBA.  The new motherboard has full LBA and UDMA support from Award BIOS (8/97).  Perhaps this Microhouse driver sets up HDs in such a manner that Win95 cannot use them?
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by:jrhelgeson
ID: 1754128
Setup the Seagate drive as the primary master then boot the machine from a clean floppy win95 floppy with the FDISK utility copied to it.
After booting, type FDISK /mbr at the command prompt, then re-config drives back to their prior master/slave.

See if that takes care of it.
If nay,
I know you have one Seagate Drive, but what is the other Hard Drive?
Do you know the exact make/model of your motherboard?
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1754129
KMoon, we're finally getting somewhere, I just wish you had mentioned this MB change earlier. Please post the entire motherboard info, including on=board chipset such as HX, TX etc and Bios version. Did you receive any software with this MB?
Dennis
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1754130
Nice work Joel, everyone else does the work and you jump in on the answer, or hadn't you noticed that everyone (up until now that is) has been adding comments. Turn about is fair play, don't you think?
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by:magigraf
ID: 1754131
Dennis...
I share your thoughts...
Regards
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by:kmoon
ID: 1754132
No offense, jrhelgeson, but I must agree with Dennis.  Considering the amount of work that others have put into this problem, I feel that they deserve the first shot at the answer when new information is revealed, as is the case here.

The motherboard is a Matsonic MS-5120 (I know, I know ... off brand ...), with VXPro PCIset chipset and Award BIOS, 8/97 revision.  The motherboard came with a VXPro UDMA Win95 driver.  I have tried the slave drive both with and without the UDMA driver installed, to the same result.
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by:jrhelgeson
ID: 1754133
Did you try my answer?
Replacing the Master Boot Record on the Slave drive?
And, What is the other hard drive manufacturer?

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by:dew_associates
ID: 1754134
Kmoon, we need to approach this from the aspect of setting up the new motherboard and hard drive properly for the way your going to use the system, rather than trying to paste everything together to access the old drive. Yes, I know, you have data on that drive that you want. For some reason Win95 can't see the descriptor byte on the old hard drive, and without it, it can't find the file allocation table. The master boot record really doesn't have any influence here because if you put your original WFW HD back as the primary, you can still boot WFW correct?

Your new motherboard, VX chipset and UDMA hard drive all permit 32 bit disk access, while WFW did not unless you employed the use of a third party mask.

Earlier in your posts you stated, "Almost forgot - I know the secondary channel is working because I first put the new drive on it as master, with my 2 older drives on the primary channel.", are we using two hard drives here or all three. For now, I'd like to use two. Try this for now, at least you shouldn't lose any data as we're not going to do any writing to the disk or formatting yet.

1. Gather the hard drive specs for both drives, cylinders etc and write them down.

2. Make sure the new drive is the master on the primary IDE channel and that Win95 is installed. Put the old drive that has WFW on it on the secondary IDE channel as a master.

3. Next, setup the motherboard's Bios exactly as you intend to use the motherboard, and check the hard drive settings. The new drive should report its parameters correctly, but the old one may not, therefore insert them manually.

4. Boot through to Windows, and install the vx chipset driver. Before restarting, go to to device manager and remove the hard disk controller entries. You should be able to do this by removing the first entry shown. Now restart the system. Your hard disk controller entries should be installed correctly. They should look like this:

Intel PIIX/PIIX3 Bus Master IDE Controller
Primary IDE Controller
Secondary IDE Controller.

**If they don't look like this let me know what they are. If this is correct, then go on.

5. Click Start, Programs, Msdos prompt. Change to the c:\ prompt only then type:

Copy autoexec.bat autoexec.txt
Copy config.sys config.txt

**This will preserve the original files in the event we have to go back to them.

6. Click Start, Run and then type in Sysedit. Start with the Autoexec.bat and then go to Config.sys and edit them as follows:

Autoexec.bat
================
@ECHO OFF
REM LH /L:2,6384 C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\DOSKEY /INSERT
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
SET SOUND=C:\SB16
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P300 T6
C:\SB16\SBCONFIG.EXE /S
C:\SB16\SB16SET /M:220 /VOC:220 /CD:220 /MIDI:220 /LINE:220 /TREBLE:0
PROMPT $P$G
PATH C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\;
SET TEMP=C:\temp
REM SET TZ=EST5EDT
REM PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;E:\BC45\BIN;%PATH

Config.sys
=====================
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
rem DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN
device=C:\WINDOWS\emm386.exe ram
BUFFERS=40,0
FILES=50
DOS=HIGH,UMB
FCBS=16,8
DEVICEHIGH /L:2,12048 =C:\WINDOWS\SETVER.EXE
REM SHELL=C:\COMMAND.COM C:\ /E:1024 /p
REM DEVICEHIGH /L:2,13856 =C:\SB16\DRV\SBCD.SYS /D:MSCD001 /P:220
REM DEVICEHIGH /L:2,9072 =C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\ANSI.SYS

Now restart the system. Let me know if the old drive is accessible. It may not be if windows still cannot see the descriptor byte, but let me know either way so we can sort further.

Dennis
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dew_associates earned 100 total points
ID: 1754135
Ken, I'd like to submit the above as an answer. If it doesn't work, please feel free to reject it.
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Author Comment

by:kmoon
ID: 1754136
Yeah, I figured you intended that as an answer - I just haven't gotten around to trying your solution yet :(  Sorry about that, but I've been kinda busy ...  I intend to work on this no later than this weekend - will let you know what heppens.
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1754137
Okay Ken, let me know!
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