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Windows startup is SLOOOOOW

Posted on 1998-02-28
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Last Modified: 2013-12-16
Hi! Since I bought a new m/b ( Spacewalker HOT-569 I430TX Chipset ), Windows startup is REALLY slow. It loads Config.sys and Autoexec.bat fine, but just before the Windows screen comes up it stops loading for about 30 seconds or so, then it starts again. Why? And is there any way to speed up the process?
My Bootlog can be viewed here if anyone wants to check it out http://hem1.passagen.se/foxeye/BOOTLOG.TXT
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Question by:foxeye
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56 Comments
 
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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754683
Edited text of question
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Expert Comment

by:TimCaturaHouser
ID: 1754684
Just a hunch... When you change MB's it changes all sorts of underlying drivers. I suspect you have a huge amount of failed drivers, from the old system, then it moves on to the working ones.... A 30 sec. wait sounds good, considering.....

I have not tried RegClean V.4.1 for this type of problem. Win '98 does a great job of conversions...... But I would take a look at reg clean. Backup of course, however, it even has a undo file, which you can, undo, or read to see what was removed...
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Expert Comment

by:OeilNoir
ID: 1754685
Take a look if you drivers initialise correctly. are you trying to load the CD from config.sys and/or autoexec.bat? is everything working fine? try removing devices in Control panel -> system
and get win95 to dectect your stuff again.
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754686
It sounds like there might be a CD problem.
Are you loading a real mode CD driver at boot-up?
Check control panel>system to see if it is running in dos-compatibility mode.
Ralph

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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754687
No, I've got nothing in Config or Autoexec except for the keyboard layout and S3 card refresh fix. Someone told me that the interupt is because Windows is looking for a network! But when the interupt happens it just sits there doing nothing ( as it seems ) not even reading the hard drive! I dont know what the heck its doing, it never was like that with my old board, and I've reinstalled Windows and everything.
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754688
foxeye,
Try renaming the boot files temporarily.  Win95 doesn't need them to start, and let's see if it boots quicker.
Ralph

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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754689
hmm, I dont quite follow you. Should I rename Bootlog.txt or what?
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754690
no... autoexec.bat and config.sys.  Just change the extention to something like .xxx


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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754691
Cant load Windows without Himem.sys
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754692
Try creating a new config.sys with its only line to read:
device=c:\windows\himem.sys
You can delete it later and rename the original files to get back to where you were originally, if windows still won't load.
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754693
Foxeye,
Can you post your Msdos.sys file here? (Without all the x's)
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Expert Comment

by:jrhelgeson
ID: 1754694
how much ram do you have?
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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754695
I've got 48MB RAM. When starting Windows in "safe mode" it boots up just fine.

Msdos.sys:
[Options]
BootGUI=1
Network=1
Logo=0

I've tried putting Network=0, but that didn't help.
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Expert Comment

by:jrhelgeson
ID: 1754696
Windows loads the entire registry into ram in order to speed up registry access, it does not do that when running in safe mode.  I wonder if that is what's causing the pause?

There are utilities available from Micro$oft & others that help windows to boot faster. Run a search on the web.
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754697
Does it boot quicker when you boot to safe mode?
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754698
jrhelgeson,
Did you look at his bootlog.txt file?(URL in original question)
There's a TON of stuff that he's wading through at bootup.
Now, how to clean it up?
Ralph

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Expert Comment

by:Shep
ID: 1754699
only thing i know of that causes up to a 30 sec delay when
booting windows is if your computer is attached to a network
(is yours ?) and gets its ip address via dhcp...windows halts
durning start-up for up to 30 sec's looking for a dhcp server,
before giving up and finishing loading...not sure this applies to your sisuation or not, but one never knows.

Shep
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Expert Comment

by:jrhelgeson
ID: 1754700
rmarotta,
Thanks for the *hint*. :o)

That is the most interesting bootlog I've ever seen, it's loading several deivces 2-5 times or more!  (GUI is being loaded 5 times!)

I would suggest you look into some of those utilities.

jr
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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754701
Eh, could someone give me a link or something to a good program? About that server-searching stuff, is there anyway of disabling that feature, since Im not connected to any network.
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LVL 25

Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 1754702
Foxeye, let's try and freshen the registry and see if we can get Windows to load correctly.

Modify your config.sys to load only Himem.sys and your cd rom driver, REM out everything else for now.

Modify your autoexec.bat to load just the cd rom driver, REM out everything else for now.

Next, restart Windows 95 and as the "Starting Windows 95" dialogue comes up, touch the F8 key and boot the system to the Msdos prompt only.

Test your cd rom drive and make sure you have access to it. Insert your Windows 95 cd rom disk and at the dos prompt, type in D:\Setup /d /p f and touch enter. (Presuming that your cd rom drive letter id "D")

This will cause Setup to ignore your System.ini and Win.ini and also clean the registry (to a certain extent).

Note: When windows goes through the setup phase, choose custom instead of typical and choose carefully each of the components you wish to install.

Let me know how you make out! If there's a question let me know!
Dennis
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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754703
Phew! That was a rocky ride! The first time I tried to reinstall Windows it crashed when installing PnP units, some stuff about Explorer and Kernel32. After trying to restart about 3 times I deleted Explorer.exe and Kernel32.dll and reinstalled Windows ( again ). This time the system crashed because of something about Msgsrv! This error I could ignore, so after pressing the "ignore" button about 10 times I got through. But now most of my applications are "gone", such as IE4, Active desktop, Office 97, MS Plus!
After de- and reinstalling IE4, Im finally back here at Experts-Exchange ( with a vengeance =) ).
Oh by the way, the start-up is still SLOOOOW.
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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754704
Maybe raising the points will get the question some more attention.
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754705
Lets see your bootlog.txt file again.

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Accepted Solution

by:
smeebud earned 200 total points
ID: 1754706
foxeye,
Give this a go.
==========
Step By Step Slow or Hanging Startup Guide
Observe the warning please: Make a copy of your
System.ini before you make this change and save
it to a floppy disk.

Otherwise, windows needs memory for startup. This gives it a real
boost in some situations.

1st. Look in your system.ini for
[386Enh]
LocalLoadHigh=1
Warning: this may cause unpredictable results if you are not using
the
EMM386 memory manager or if you're using a compressed drive.
Remove DoubleSpace/DriveSpace from memory:
If it is not there add that line, reboot. That should fix it.
See that LocalLoadHigh=1 is or is not in you MSDOS.sys.
If it is, remove it.

Then step 2
Is there a conflict in the Config.sys or Autoexec.bat file?

When you see the "Starting Windows 95" message, press the F8 key.

From the Startup menu, choose
Step-By-Step Confirmation. Step through each command in the
Config.sys
and Autoexec.Bat files. Load only one
line and see if the computer starts. If so, restart the computer and
load two
lines. Continue until the startup
problem returns.

Step 3.
Are the protected-mode drivers configured incorrectly or damaged?

To determine whether a protected-mode driver is preventing the
computer
from booting properly, follow these steps:

1.Start Windows 95 in Safe mode.
2.Use the right mouse button to click My Computer, and then click
Properties on the menu that appears.
3.On the Device Manager tab, disable any devices in the following
categories: Display adapters Floppy
disk controllers Hard disk controllers Keyboard Mouse Network
adapters PCMCIA socket Ports SCSI
controllers Sound, video, and game controllers To disable a device,
follow these steps: a.
In Device Manager, double-click the category name, and then
double- click the device. b. On the General tab, click
the Original Configuration (Current) check box to clear it, and then
click OK. c. Restart your computer.
4.Once Windows 95 restarts, enable the devices you disabled in
step 3.
Enable the devices in the following order:
Com ports
Hard disk controllers
Floppy disk controllers
Other devices
To enable a device, follow these steps: a. In Device Manager,
double-click the category name, and then double- click the device.
b. On the General tab, click the Original Configuration (Current)
check box to select it, and then click OK. c. While the properties
for each device are open, click the Resources tab and
make sure there are no conflicts listed in the Conflicting Devices
list.
5.Restart your computer.

If the computer does not boot, restart the computer in Safe mode
and
disable the last device you enabled.

Step 4.
Startup Group:
Drag all application Icons from your Start up group to your Desktop
temporarily.

Step 5.
Is your video adapter or driver compatible and working properly?

If the computer will boot in Safe mode, change your video display
driver to the Windows 95 Standard VGA driver.
To do this, follow these steps:

1.In Control Panel, double-click Display.
2.Click the Settings tab, and then click Change Display Type.
3.Click the Change button in the Adapter Type section, and then
click Show All Devices.
4.In the Manufacturers box, click (Standard Display Types).
5.In the Models box, click Standard Display Adapter (VGA),
click OK, and then click Close.
6.Click Close.

If the computer will not boot in Safe mode, or these steps do not
work properly, your display adapter may not be configured correctly
or may be damanged. Check your display adapter documentation to
ensure it is configured and installed correctly.

Step 5.
Registry

Step 6.
Are the entries in the Windows .ini files correct?

To determine whether the System.ini or Win.ini file is causing a
problem,
try the following steps:

1.Rename the System.ini file in the Windows folder to System.sav.
2.Copy (do not rename) the System.cb file in the Windows folder to
System.ini.
3.Add the following line to the [boot] section of the System.ini file
and
then save the file:
drivers=mmsystem.dll
4.Rename the Win.ini file in the Windows folder to Win.sav.
5.Restart your computer.

If this works, there is a problem with an entry in the System.ini or
Win.ini file. Examine these files more closely
to determine the exact cause of the problem.

Step 7.
Is there a Winstart.bat file loading TSRs for your older
Windows-based programs?

A Winstart.bat file may be located in your Windows folder. If it exists,

rename it to Winstart.old. If this resolves the problem, one of the
files
being loaded by the Winstart.bat file is causing the problem. Contact
the
manufacturer of the program that is causing the problem for
information
about using it with Windows 95.

Step 8.
FAQ's
http://support.microsoft.com/support/windows/faq/default.asp?PR=OFW&FR

=0&A=T&T=B&M=S&

Step 9.
FAQ's
Windows 95 How-To Guide on optimizing Win95;
http://support.microsoft.com/support/windows/howto/default.asp?PR=OFW&FR=0&A=T&T=B&M=S&
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754707
I'm also curious why himem.sys wouldn't load earlier.  You can create an enviornment file by going to a dos prompt and typing "set > env.txt".(no quotes)
Then we can see what the path statement is set to.
Ralph
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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754708
This is what the env.txt file displayed:
TMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
TEMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
PROMPT=$p$g
winbootdir=C:\WINDOWS
PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND
COMSPEC=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM
windir=C:\WINDOWS
BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6 E620

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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754709
foxeye,
Looks okay now.  The path statement had to be different before you reloaded win95 because it couldn't find himem.sys then.
Has the bootlog changed much?

Smeebud,
In the posts preceeding yours, note that foxeye hasn't been UNABLE to run windows.  Do you think that 48Mb is enough to start windows?
Ralph

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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754710
I've refreshed the Bootlog.txt file now at http://hem1.passagen.se/foxeye/BOOTLOG.TXT
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Expert Comment

by:smeebud
ID: 1754711
Ralph
48mg, Oh my yes.

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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754712
I think I might have found something here. I tried out smeebuds suggestion, about disabling devices in the device manager. I have now disabled something called "Intel PIIX4 Bus Master IDE controllers ( Ultra DMA supported )" in the Hard-drive controllers section. When I disabled this the boot-up went smoothly, but it seems that "primary and secondary IDE controllers" are no longer available. What is this anyway???
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754713
What hard drive controller shows up in device manager now?
If possible, you'll want to use the busmaster drivers for fast IDE throughput... if your hardware can use it.
You can find out everything about it at Intels site. I'll send you the URL as soon as I can locate it.
Ralph



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Expert Comment

by:smeebud
ID: 1754714
The official explaination"
Refers to a feature supported by some bus
architectures that enables a controller connected to
the bus to communicate directly with other devices on
the bus without going through the CPU. Most modern
bus architectures, including PCI, support bus
mastering because it improves performance.

Wrong bus mastering drivers can really play havoc with your system. You don't really have to have them. I don't.
Did you have the TX chipset with your other board.
You probably need to download new/compatible bus mastering drivers.
Lets enlighten ourselves here.
See:
http://www.intel.com/design/pcisets/busmastr/bmfaq.htm

I'm going to ask Dennis about this.
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754715
Thanks Bud, that's the URL I misplaced.  If you browse that FAQ, it'll tell you all you ever wanted to know about bus mastering.

Foxeye, back to your bootup issue...
I see a huge amount of data in the bootlog file that still needs cleanup.  Dennis' suggestion is the way to proceed, so we'll wait on him to step you through it.

One thing though.... I read somewhere that MS took that regclean file off their site.  Others have suggested using it repeatedly, but I wouldn't advise it.  I know it ruined my IE4 setup just before it disappeared from their site..(What a mess!)
Some say they put it back up, but if so they hid it pretty good about 15 min. ago.(I searched unsuccessfully)
Ralph

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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754716
Oops,
The site Smeebud posted is for Ultra DMA...  the site for the bus master FAQ is:
http://www.intel.com/design/pcisets/busmastr/FAQs.htm
There is a link to download the drivers there.
Dennis???
Ralph

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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754717
Ok, I've deinstalled that PIIX4 BUS thingie and the system reinstalled my old IDE controller ( Intel 82371AB PCI Bus Master IDE controller ). The system boots up quicker now. So I guess smeebud has earned the points, but if rmarotta can speed it up even more I will give him some points as well.
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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754718
Hmm, check out this link http://developer.intel.com/design/pcisets/busmastr/FAQs.htm#faq2b
The last of the three points says 82311AB instead of 71 as the others. Since I've a TX chipset and my system says it's called 82371AB is this a type error from Intels side?
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754719
foxeye,
The points don't make any difference to me.  You can do better by going to the last site I posted and download the latest BM driver.  There are some features not addressed by the generic win95 driver.
Of course, this all has to do with proper installation, which can sometimes be tricky.
The first thing is to determine if your hardware can even use bus mastering.  Again, browse the FAQ for all the info.
Good luck and I hope it helps you.
Regards from sunny Florida, (well... not too sunny today!)
Ralph

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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754720
Ok, but what about that bootlog cleanup?
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754721
Wow! That was fast...
foxeye,
I guess we "doubled" that time.  I saw your post as soon as mine uploaded.
Anyway, I think there are three chip numbers included that the BM driver handles.  The "AB" is one of them, so it should work okay.
Ralph

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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754722
Doubled again....
Hmmmm - I almost forgot about that bootlog.
Dennis should show up pretty soon, and he is much better than I at stepping someone through all the details of Win95 setup.
I'm sure that what he suggested is the way to clean up your installation.  All you need is a few more details to steer you through it.
Ralph

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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754723
foxeye,
One other thing I remembered..  USB support.
Does your motherboard have USB on it?
If so, you will need a driver for USB even though you do not use it.  There are some things in that driver that relate to the PCI bus, and need to be loaded along with the BM drivers.
Again, Dennis will explain this for you as well.(I hope he doesn't leave me out here on this limb!)  :)
Ralph

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LVL 14

Expert Comment

by:smeebud
ID: 1754724
I looked at your Bootlog.
yes you have a lot of stuff loading. But that's a result of what you have installed on your system. It doesn't seem that bad to me,[not knowing what all your software is]. But there is some doubling up.

As far as bus mastering, I've installed and uninstalled the drivers and personally i don't think the speed is noticable.
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Expert Comment

by:smeebud
ID: 1754725
What does your Device manager, Hard Disk Controllers expanded
view read as of now.

lets not get over tech'd here.

0
 
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754726
Smeebud,
Do you have a UDMA hard drive?  It's "supposed" to double the throughput of EIDE, fast ATA2, or whatever... up to 33MB/Sec.

I thought I saw references to hardware (video and sound cards, etc.) in the bootlog file that are probably no longer resident in the system.
Ralph


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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754727
Hmm there are four of them:
Creative Labs IDE-controller
Intel 82371AB PCI Bus Master IDE controller
Primary IDE-controller ( double fifo )
Secondary IDE-controller ( double fifo )
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754728
foxeye,
That's the stuff Dennis' setup proceedure will clean up for you.
Now, let's put the BM issue to rest...
Have you read about requirements for use of BM?  Can your system  benefit from its use?
If not, we can forget about it.  If so, GET the driver.
Ralph

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Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 1754729
Hi Foxeye, Bud mentioned that you may be ready to install the Bus Mastering drivers. Have the other problems been cleared up? The Intel site still has the old drivers posted, the latest releases are at: http://www.bmdrivers.com/

Download the latest set for the TX Chipset and let me know when you have them and I'll post the entire procedure. Sorry about that setup issue, your system should not have reacted that way.

Dennis
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754730
Dennis:
Foxeye still has eleven pages of stuff in his bootlog.txt file!
Don't you think the setup should be run again first?
Thnx for the info on the BM drivers.  I'm just curious why Intel wouldn't have the latest stuff for their chipset?
regards,
Ralph

0
 
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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754731
Ok, I've downloaded the drivers for both the Intel Triton TX chipset and for TXPRO. Which one should I use?
0
 
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754732
foxeye,
If your chipset is Intel, use theirs. You will see the manufacturer's logo (Intel or TxPro) on the chips.
Do you have EIDE or UDMA hard drive?
Ralph

0
 
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Expert Comment

by:smeebud
ID: 1754733
It looks to me like your bus mastering is OK.
foxeye,
post at you URL your lastest bootlog.
0
 
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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754734
Hmm, it seems fine to me too. I think I'll just keep these settings and wrap this baby up for good. Thanks everyone, I really appreciated your help.
0
 
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Author Comment

by:foxeye
ID: 1754735
Hmm, it seems fine to me too. I think I'll just keep these settings and wrap this baby up for good. Thanks everyone, I really appreciated your help.
0
 
LVL 14

Expert Comment

by:smeebud
ID: 1754736
Ok foxeye.
If you need help with this issue contact here.
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Q.10041042
0
 
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1754737
Smeebud, I guess you missed it ....way back there in the thread, but foxeye already posted his updated bootlog.txt file.

foxeye,
Since the amount of points I have available for reading PAQ's is very limited, I can't come back to this question again.
If you need any more help on this problem in the future though, I suggest that you post a new  question.  This will attract the greatest number of experts to assist you.
Now, here's my two cent's worth since I already spent the points:

You are now using bus mastering and I think it gained you a performance improvement.
However, your updated bootlog.txt file shows an enormous amount of unecessary activity.
I think your registry should be cleaned up for optimum performance.
When you have time, I'd recommend doing the setup again, but of course, that's your decision if you prefer to leave well enough alone.
Good luck with your system and best regards,
Ralph

0
 
LVL 14

Expert Comment

by:smeebud
ID: 1754738
Thanks rmarotta,
To you both, there is a great registry CLEANER at
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/2857/
a great place to learn the reg, or faster would be:
http://ftpsearch.ntnu.no/
search Smalreg4.zip
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