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Registry Problems

Posted on 1998-03-08
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Last Modified: 2013-12-16
My registry seems to have a problem.

Everything runs OK, and regclean is happy with it.

But, when I try to run Microsoft Backup, it says "backing up Registry", runs for a few minutes, and then locks up the machine; reboot required.

I tried Iomega tape backup routine, it tries to backup the registry, runs for a few minutes, and then halts:
   "Cannot backup registry;
     An error occurred accessing the information from the operating system."

What to do? So far the only symptom I find is this inability to do backups!

Please Email any ideas.

Thanks!
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Question by:guthrie
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smeebud earned 200 total points
ID: 1754814
This is supposed to fix these problems>
-----------
http://www.microsoft.com/windows95/info/backupd.htm

Backup Update
(Download: 439K, self-extracting Zip file, published:
May 3, 1996)

This component gives slight performance
improvements over the released version of the
Microsoft® Windows® 95 backup application. This
update also guards against a user erasing media
improperly by disabling the "Erase Tape" command
when backing up to floppy disks or to another hard
disk. This update also fixes an "out of memory" issue
that may be encountered when restoring data. This
update does not add any support for additional
devices that were not supported in the original
version of the Windows 95 Backup application.

All users of the Windows 95 Backup application should
obtain this updated

Let me know what happens.

regards,
Bud
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by:smeebud
ID: 1754815
Gutherie, there are three possibilties here, 1. There's a problem with the registry that won't permit it to be backed up, 2. There's a problem with the MS Backup routine, or 3. Another program is interferring with the backup. Let's narrow the field of potential problems some and see what happens.

1. Click Start, Run and type in Regedit. Click on Regsitry and then click Export and name it something like Myreg and see if you get a good export.

2. Using your "Ctrl"  "Alt"  and  "Del" keys, close all running programs except for Systray and Explorer. Now run the backup! Does it perform now?

Dennis
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1754816
smeebud;

Thanks for the references; neither corresponds to my situatio (different error symptoms).

dew_associates
good ideas; but no! The registry export seems to work fine; at least it creates a 4M file. backup hangs even without anything else running.

Both; note, that this used to work! I installed the Iomega DItto-800 tape drvie a few mnths ago, and made at least two full backups already. And, since MSoft backup has similar problems, I don't think it is tha tape; I think it really is the registry.

Greg
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Author Comment

by:guthrie
ID: 1754817
Okay Gutherie, how about we start digging further than. First though, how about reopening the question to other answers. Have you added the Microsoft Backup Update as Bud has suggested? Also, does the Iomega fix on their site apply to your drive? You mention error symptoms, what are they besides the hang during the backup? As a test, have you tried backing up about half the drive and see what happens?
Dennis
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1754818
Good suggestion Dennis.
guthrie, I do think you should try the Update, you mayhave just gotten lucky the 1st
couple of times.

Try Dennis's idea, a partial backup.
That's a wopper of a registry size.
Ifyou can export that size file, you system is doing well.
Try inporting that, but first:
WRPV3.ZIP is the Best and easiest Registry Backup/Restore I've Seen. Go To:
http://www.webdev.net/orca/ and Search WRP: Install and backup.
This is a well written batch file driven bakup and restore, so it writes nothing
to your system. Far better than Microsofts URU.
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by:smeebud
ID: 1754819
Well; thanks for the suggestions.

1) Only symptoms are that both MSoft backup and Iomega backup fail on registry backup.
    MSoft hard-hangs system, only hard reset will recover, Iomega reports "error reading information from OS" during backup registry operation. Both fail after 1-2 minutes.
   Could my registry be too big for them? (why is it so big..?).

2) I already run a program like the WRP, only difference is that it pkzips the relevant files. I have some backups, but, ..?

3) I wondered about ;
  - export entire registry
  - delete registry
  - re-import
    -- but I don't know enough about this to know if this is sane, or helpful.

4) I can (will) try a partial backup, but since neither ever got to even reading the first files to back them up, wonder how relevant this is.

5) I recently read that Norton utilities has a registry repair; any other options for htis beyond MSofts, which I already ran. (I am reluctant to install Norton, I heard it has performance impoacts, and have fount it to be pretty perturbing of a system).

Thanks,
Greg
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Author Comment

by:guthrie
ID: 1754820
Well, before I recomend any registry cleaner/compactor, I would say install WRP and back a backup 1st.
If you don't use some sort of installation monitor, i.e; Cleansweep, and you uninstall programs, there is most likely a ton of keys in the reg that could make it quite large and cause problems.
============
If this fails, you are safe because you can go to WRP and restore all to the byte.
==================
Rebuild Your Registry
Usually when you get a system crash when accessing the
registry (i.e. user.dat or system.dat) it's because the
registry has become corrupted somewhere. It's not
always enough to trash Windows because doesn't
necessarily read through all of the registry when you
boot it up. Trying to backup user.dat, however, will
force Windows to traverse down through the entire
hierarchy of the registry data. If there is a bad node,
you have big problems. The best course of action is to do
the following:

1. Shut down Windows and then reboot to the MSDOS
command line

2. Make the Registry Files to .txt:
  regedit /l:c:\windows\System.dat /e c:\system.txt
  regedit /l:c:\windows\User.dat /e c:\user.txt

3. Open the Registry File
  attrib -s -r -h c:\windows\System.dat
  attrib -s -r -h c:\windows\User.dat

4. Make backup copies:
  mkdir c:\save
  copy c:\system\system.dat c:\save\system.dat
  copy c:\system\user.dat c:\save\user.dat

5. Delete the registry files:
  del c:\system\system.dat
  del c:\system\user.dat

6. Re-create the registry files:
  regedit /l:c:\windows\System.dat c:\system.txt
  regedit /l:c:\windows\User.dat c:\user.txt

7. Reboot

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by:smeebud
ID: 1754821
Guthrie, here's a thought for you. Go into add/remove programs, windows 95 and remove the disk utilities, especially backup. Reboot the system and then add then anew along with the backup update and then try it. You may also need to apply Bud's fix to possibly reduce the size of the registry.
Dennis
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1754822
Hmm,

I Tried Bud's backup, and I find that I can ueaily backup the user.dat (647K), but cannot for system.dat (It is the huge one (4M)). I get "Unable to open registry (14)" error.
 -- ThIs is DOS; regedit /l:d:\windows\system.dat /e c:\system.txt

Interesting that regclean has no trouble with it..

Note that from regedit I can do a backup; What is the difference?
  the regabck.reg seems to be ascii; I presume it contains both (system+user).dat?

Increasingly worried(!),
Greg
Greg
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Author Comment

by:guthrie
ID: 1754823
Your export from windows only use,
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE] and
[HKEY_USERS]
unless, you have a profile, then it will pickup, as in mine,
HKEY_USERS\bwil
All the other key are not static like the above but picked up and rewritten on each boot from other system files.
If you have a good conventional memory configuration, you might get away with this method.
If we are goingto be working in dos it would be good to know your mem. please do this and post it.
Boot to Real mode Dos, at the C:\> type
C:\>MEM/C > MEM.TXT [enter]
You find mem.txt in your root directory, please post that.
==================
Clean The Garbage From Your Registry
After a major clean up, you notice that the size of registry remains the same. It's just like how DOS
deletes files on the hard disk. The files are not really deleted, they are just floating.
In the registry a removed key becomes an invisible existence to the reg editors. You can export keys that
are recognizable by the editors to a temp file, then use the same temp file to reconstruct a new registry.
And this is how we remove those invisible footprints.
Clean the bedevil out of your registry. But 1st; BACKUP YOUR REGISTRY.
NOTE: This works on most systems. In my personal experience, and others that I know of it works 90%
of the time. If your computer locks up during the process, or does not show 100% done from "Real Mode
Dos", yet stops: Simply reboot and Import MyReg.reg.
Example: C:\Windows>Regedit Myreg.reg
Or, C:\WRP>RESTORE.
WRPV3.ZIP is the Best and easiest Backup/Restore I've Seen. Go To:
http://www.webdev.net/orca/ Search WRP

Step1: Copy all Windows .dat files To a Temp directory.
System.dat and User.dat FOR SURE.
Step2: Be sure to have a reg backup already.
Step3: Open reg editor and export "all entries" to a reg file(MyReg.reg).
Step4: Power off for 10 seconds then Boot to REAL DOS MODE.
Go to Windows directory.
Step5: Type ATTRIB -H -S -R SYSTEM.DAT and
ATTRIB -H -S -R USER.DAT.
Step6: Delete .dat files, e.g. del *.dat /y
Step7: At C:\Windows>type "regedit /c MyReg.reg", No Quotes.
EXAMPLE: C:\Windows>REGEDIT /c MyReg.reg [enter]
NOTE. If your computer locks up before the import is 100% done,
Simply re-boot and Import from C:\Windows>Regedit Myreg.reg; OR
CD to WRP and type restore.
Everybodys 95 is different, that's why the warning. Works great for me,
and many others. Still, check you system out, keyboard, applications,
modem; everything! FELL SAFE! You have three backups:
1. MrReg.reg
2. WRP Backup
3. You System.dat and User.dat that you saved in step 1.
In one case this method shrunk system.dat from 5.5 to 2.4 MB.
You can only imagine how windows responded to that.. They fly:)
NOTE: IF YOU HAVE MULTIPLE USER PROFILES.
Only thing I have to WARN people of is if they use multiple user profiles
when regedit rebuilds new registry it sets default user.dat in windows
directory belonging to the user which had made MyReg.reg backup.
So it is necessary to copy the original default;
C:\WINDOWS\USER.DAT back to the windows directory.
After the process, please exam your system thoroughly and put it through
it paces. Also keep the backup for a while before updating it.
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by:smeebud
ID: 1754824
Memory status:

Modules using memory below 1 MB:

  Name           Total           Conventional       Upper Memory
  --------  ----------------   ----------------   ----------------
  MSDOS       18,544   (18K)     18,544   (18K)          0    (0K)
  HIMEM        1,168    (1K)      1,168    (1K)          0    (0K)
  IFSHLP       2,864    (3K)      2,864    (3K)          0    (0K)
  SETVER         832    (1K)        832    (1K)          0    (0K)
  WIN          4,352    (4K)      4,352    (4K)          0    (0K)
  DOSKEY       4,688    (5K)      4,688    (5K)          0    (0K)
  COMMAND      8,784    (9K)      8,784    (9K)          0    (0K)
  GUEST       20,288   (20K)     20,288   (20K)          0    (0K)
  COMMAND      7,616    (7K)      7,616    (7K)          0    (0K)
  ASPIPPM1     7,152    (7K)      7,152    (7K)          0    (0K)
  Free       578,128  (565K)    578,128  (565K)          0    (0K)

Memory Summary:

  Type of Memory       Total         Used          Free
  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
  Conventional          655,360        77,232       578,128
  Upper                       0             0             0
  Reserved              393,216       393,216             0
  Extended (XMS)     49,283,072        69,632    49,213,440
  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
  Total memory       50,331,648       540,080    49,791,568

  Total under 1 MB      655,360        77,232       578,128

  Largest executable program size         533,664   (521K)
  Largest free upper memory block               0     (0K)
  MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

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Author Comment

by:guthrie
ID: 1754825
Greg, did you try the export you mentioned above in real or protected mode?
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1754826
Um, I dunno.

I just restarted from Windows shutdown into DOS mode.

(Wouldn't this be easier via Email?)
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Author Comment

by:guthrie
ID: 1754827
Click Start, Run and type regedit, then click OK. Try your export from there. I think the registry is too big for your Dos memory to handle, so we'll try it in protected mode. If it works, that will be the reason.
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1754828
That's good thinking Dennis.
It's where i was headed.
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by:smeebud
ID: 1754829
That's what I did about 4 iterations ago (see 3/10 note), seemed to work fine.

But I thought you noted that that didn't export everything? (although it is about 4.1M, so it must have almost all..)

And thus..?

Greg
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Author Comment

by:guthrie
ID: 1754830
Greg, Microsoft has already posted this as a potential problem. Your original Dos export was greater than your memory could handle, therefore doing it in protected mode enable you to use win95 memory instead! That solves the issue Greg. Shall I post that as the answer?
Dennis
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1754831
Hmm, perhaps I'm confused.
 The problem is that backup(s) cannot access the registry, and either fail or hang.

Looking further, the system registry seems suspiciously large. We then wanted to find a way to clean it up. DOs export failed, (probably memory limit). Running the same command from a DOS-box under windows does nothing. An export from the windows regedit does work, but does it contain everything needed? Can it be restored from DOS?

So; does this mean I should use the windows export, and try to delete the registry and then restore from DOS? If DOS couldn't export it, can it import it?
An earlier note from Bud indicated that the windows regedit export was only partial (3/10), is this a problem?

Certainly the origional problem is not solved; maybe I have the steps to fix it, and just need some clarification?

Greg
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Author Comment

by:guthrie
ID: 1754832
578,128 is rather low to do any kind of registry work in dos.
Memmaker still works. Windows is supposed to guarantee 620 for dos.

What I said was,
"Your export from windows only use,
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE] and
[HKEY_USERS]
unless, you have a profile, then it will pickup, as in mine,
HKEY_USERS\bwil
All the other key are not static like the above but picked up and rewritten on each boot from other system
files.
If you have a good conventional memory configuration, you might get away with this method.
If we are goingto be working in dos it would be good to know your mem. please do this and post it."

You did that and we see that you memory is a little low.

Did you try my registry garbage method.

Go to;
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/2857/
on the 4th or 5th page you'll see "Download this small file", it's called smalreg3.zip

Read it carefully and it will reduce your reg size.
make a WRP backup 1st.
=================mean time
Getting more conventional RAM in Windows 95
Here's some steps I've found useful in freeing up conventional RAM in
Windows 95, without costly add-on software.
NOTE: These instructions MAY TEMPORARILY impair the computer. ALWAYS copy
any configuration files you alter before altering and/or rebooting your
computer!
ALSO: These configuration files are just text files located in your boot
disk "root" directory. For most Windows users, this is the C:\ directory.
The exceptioned users are probably running MULTIPLE operating systems on
their machines.

In order to edit the configuration files listed below, you'll need to use a
text editor of some sort. Luckily, there are versions both in DOS mode and
Windows mode provided by MS for free! Here they are:

* DOS Mode: edit is provided. It's a simple editing program with very
rudimentary search/replace and cut/paste functions. For your needs,
though, it's just fine. You can run it from the command line like so:
edit config.sys
* Windows Mode: You've got two choices, notepad and sysedit. Of these, I
prefer sysedit, or System Editor, because it's specially designed to
edit config files under Windows. In fact, SysEdit is an extremely
useful program for people who like to tinker with their machines
settings and (attempt to) tune for performance. It opens ALL the
relevant Windows configuration files into a single application and
allows you to edit any of them, then save them all at once. While
you'll only be concerned with AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS, don't be
shy to look at the other files, if you're so inclined. Documentation
for either is available through DOS/Windows online help, but they both
conform to typical windows standards and if you're familiar with any
word processing application for Windows, you'll have no trouble at
all. All you're doing is opening, altering, saving, and exiting. And
no, there's no chance of you screwing up anything you've saved on disk
by tinkering with the memory settings, but keep it to that.

OK, Here's the story;

Substitute your boot drive letter for x listed below.

* You need to use Windows 95's himem.sys and emm386.exe files, located
in the x:\windows directory. The older MS-DOS ones won't work
correctly.
* Make sure the first line of your config.sys file reads:

x:\windows\himem.sys

* Make sure you place the EMS page frame nice and high, to permit the
area under it to be used for loading stuff high. If you can, try to
use no page frame at all. Here's some lines to try (in descending
order of the amount of high memory they will allow):
1. x:\windows\emm386.exe noems (if you don't need EMS)
2. x:\windows\emm386.exe ram frame=none
3. x:\windows\emm386.exe ram frame=e000
4. x:\windows\emm386.exe ram frame=d000
* NOTE: newer software requiring EMS does not usually need to have the
page frame set. For example, I run Civilization for DOS and TIE
Fighter CD using frame=none with absolutely no problems. However, if
you're using older software, you may experience errors with no page
frame. Try using no page frame, then switch to a page frame if you
encounter errors. This will allow you to free up the most conventional
RAM.
* Make sure you're using your UMBs and the HMA. You need to include the
following line in your config.sys file:

DOS=HIGH,UMB

* Make sure you're loading your config.sys device drivers high, except
for any device drivers which state that they MUST be loaded low. If
your devicehigh'd driver causes system hangs or other problems, then
you'll have to load it low. A device driver loaded high looks
something like this:
devicehigh=x:\scsi\doscam.sys
* Try substituting your buffers, files, and fcbs lines with buffershigh,
fileshigh, and fcbshigh (respectively). These options use the upper
memory area (UMA) for these allocations. However, their effectiveness
differs on a case-by-case basis, so test a few different
configurations to see how much memory they provide.
* Of course, you need to reboot your machine to let these changes take
effect. Also, you will still probably have to go into MSDOS
compatibility mode for some DOS applications, but the memory settings
will still be there.
Curtesy of Mathew A. Hennessy (hennessy@cloud9.net)
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by:smeebud
ID: 1754833
Bud,

Thanks,

1) No, I couldn't do your registry garbage method because I couldn't complete the system.dat export. That's why I was asking above if I could use the same method with the windows exported .reg files. I notice that your method created and used a sysetm.txt, not a .reg file. (I couldn't find any information on the regedit command line options; from where does such information come!)

-- what should I do?

2)  I will get and try the smalreg program.

3) I am worried by all the all the emm386 stuff; I used to have to run that for some programs, and found it caused problems with MSoft compilers (which I sometimes need to run from DOS. Shouldn't I be able to have one custom DOS window with all such memory experiments localized to it, and not in the global config.sys file?

Greg
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Author Comment

by:guthrie
ID: 1754834
Ok, you didn't read it right, you don't export it, you delete it.
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by:smeebud
ID: 1754835
OK; will do.

There had been two methods proposed; the first was "export to text from DOS, and then delete files, and then import", that failed, the second was "export from windows, then delete and import". I did a good export from within windows, so now will try other steps.

Right!

I will also run smalreg tonight.
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Author Comment

by:guthrie
ID: 1754836
Sorry about all the methods and getting you confused.
In this proceedure you don't export,
=============
Clean The Garbage From Your Registry
After a major clean up, you notice that the size of registry remains the same. It's just like how DOS deletes files on the hard disk. The
files are not really deleted, they are just floating.
In the registry a removed key becomes an invisible existence to the reg editors. You can export keys that are recognizable by the
editors to a temp file, then use the same temp file to reconstruct a new registry. And this is how we remove those invisible footprints.
Clean the bedevil out of your registry. But 1st; BACKUP YOUR REGISTRY.
NOTE: This works on most systems. In my personal experience, and others that I know of it works 90% of the time. If your
computer locks up during the process, or does not show 100% done from "Real Mode Dos", yet stops: Simply reboot and Import
MyReg.reg.
Example: C:\Windows>Regedit Myreg.reg
Or, C:\WRP>RESTORE.
WRPV3.ZIP is the Best and easiest Backup/Restore I've Seen. Go To:
http://www.webdev.net/orca/ Search WRP

Step1: Copy all Windows .dat files To a Temp directory.
System.dat and User.dat FOR SURE. [YOU CAN DO THIS FROM WINDOWS.]
Step2: Be sure to have a reg backup already.
Step3: Open reg editor and export "all entries" to a reg file(MyReg.reg). [FROM WINDOWS]
Step4: Power off for 10 seconds then Boot to REAL DOS MODE.
Go to Windows directory.
Step5: Type ATTRIB -H -S -R SYSTEM.DAT and
ATTRIB -H -S -R USER.DAT.
Step6: Delete .dat files, e.g. del *.dat /y
Step7: At C:\Windows>type "regedit /c MyReg.reg", No Quotes.
EXAMPLE: C:\Windows>REGEDIT /c MyReg.reg [enter]
NOTE. If your computer locks up before the import is 100% done,
Simply re-boot and Import from C:\Windows>Regedit Myreg.reg; OR
CD to WRP and type restore.
Everybodys 95 is different, that's why the warning. Works great for me,
and many others. Still, check you system out, keyboard, applications,
modem; everything! FELL SAFE! You have three backups:
1. MrReg.reg
2. WRP Backup
3. You System.dat and User.dat that you saved in step 1.
In one case this method shrunk system.dat from 5.5 to 2.4 MB.
You can only imagine how windows responded to that.. They fly:)
NOTE: IF YOU HAVE MULTIPLE USER PROFILES.
Only thing I have to WARN people of is if they use multiple user profiles
when regedit rebuilds new registry it sets default user.dat in windows
directory belonging to the user which had made MyReg.reg backup.
So it is necessary to copy the original default;
C:\WINDOWS\USER.DAT back to the windows directory.
After the process, please exam your system thoroughly and put it through
it paces. Also keep the backup for a while before updating it.
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by:smeebud
ID: 1754837
Greg,

I cant find here, which version is your windows?

Regards,
Happy1
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Expert Comment

by:happy1
ID: 1754838
Error 14 BTW is
0x000E [Not enough storage space]

I believe you should go with optimizing your real mode Dos Free Conventional Memory.
From some of my sugestions, or memmaker.
in conjunction with my registry garbage suggestion, only when your computer is booting when you see Windows is now starting windows 95 touch F8 and do not load anything unnecessary. Just the basics.

Then continue with the MyReg.Reg

Bud
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by:smeebud
ID: 1754839
Win 95 + SR1.

Bud,
Thanks, The errro number reference is goo dto know.  I will try to it do this weekend. I had a book chapter to finish, and was afraid to fiddle with this till I was done this week!

Thanks,
Greg
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Author Comment

by:guthrie
ID: 1754840
OK.

I tried the recovery procedure; did an export, booted to DOS, removed (moved) the bad ones, and then tried a restore (regedit /c)  [What is the /c option?]

it ran for awhile, and then hung at 16% import done. I rebooted, w/ F5, opted out some program loadings, and got more memory (533 -> 625K), and tried again, this time it ran for about 20 minutes, importing about 40% (last parts very slowly), then suddenly did (skipped?) the rest, and reported "Error importing registry, previous registry restored". I am not sure where it got it from, but it restored a 6K version.

I tried to reboot, but couldn't, get a "WIndows protection error; you need to reboot your computer". Couldn't even get to DOS using F5 at boot time; that surprised me. Booted to a emergency disk DOS, restored the registry, and am back up.

Suggestions?

Greg
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Author Comment

by:guthrie
ID: 1754841
Hello,
I am wondering if this thread is still open?

The suggested solution did not work, any other ideas?

Greg
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Author Comment

by:guthrie
ID: 1754842
If you don't have profiles then the best option i believe is smalreg3.zip.
Get smalreg3.zip from
http://ftpsearch.ntnu.no/

Read carefully before you begin.
also
WRPV3.ZIP
WRPV3.ZIP is the Best and easiest Registry Backup/Restore I've Seen. Go To:
http://www.webdev.net/orca/ and Search WRP: Install and backup.
This is a well written batch file driven bakup and restore, so it writes nothing
to your system. Far better than Microsofts URU.

Bud
0

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Join Greg Farro and Ethan Banks from Packet Pushers (http://packetpushers.net/podcast/podcasts/pq-show-93-smart-network-monitoring-paessler-sponsored/) and Greg Ross from Paessler (https://www.paessler.com/prtg) for a discussion about smart network …
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