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Why doesn't G3 HD mount when system is booted from a zip?

Posted on 1998-03-27
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Last Modified: 2010-04-25
I've noticed that my new G3/266/6gig/160RAM (running 8.1, single volume formatted HFS+) doesn't mount its internal hard drive when booted from a startup Zip.

When I want to repair with Disk First Aid I boot up from my Zip, but only the Zip icon appears on the desktop - no G3 hard drive disk is seen.  I have to use Drive Setup to mount the internal HD, and then I can run Disk First Aid.  However all of my aliases I like to keep on the bottom of the desktop now appear all over the screen.

My old machine is a Performa 6300 which mounts it's internal HD volumes whenever it is booted from a startup zip.  Why doesn't the G3 perform in the same way?
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Question by:jimj
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by:rbr
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Which OS is installed on your ZIP-drive?
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by:jimj
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It's not that - the Zip has OS 8.1
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by:tavimuni
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Dear jimj I had this problem too, I think it was for the disk system format from the OS 8.
After same news system installs I resolve it. I rebuilt the disk desktops of the external bootables disks ,running OS8 in the hard drive, or reformating its from the OS8.

If you install OS8 on your 6300 with the install by zero option disabled then the system runs ok. I had the same problem on a PM 8200, I format the hard disc and install OS8 then I can't saw the hard disc when I rebbot from a external drive. I reinstall System 7.5 on the 8200 and next the OS8 on it, that seems to be a upgrade not a new installation, but now works ok.

See you!!
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by:jimj
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That doesn't help me.  The 6300 has no problem with this (OS 8.1 HFS+), but the G3 (also OS 8.1 HFS+) does, using the same boot zip disk (therefore the problem is not the boot disk, and also have the same problem with booting from the 8.1 disk tools floppy).

I don't think I can install OS 7.5 on the G3, I believe the minimum system is 8.0 (and even if I could, I wouldn't want to). Also FYI last weekend my G3 had major problems which eventually caused me to reinitialize the HD - fortunately I was all backed up on Jaz disks.  Once everything was back, I wondered if I would still have the same problem, I checked, and the problem persists.

Does anyone else with a G3 experience this?

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by:jimj
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Adjusted points to 150
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by:TheHub
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Do not use HFS+

Reformat with HFS Standard and make several partitions. HFS+ is a good idea. When the bugs are shaken out, it will be a great one.
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by:jimj
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But if the problem on my G3 is secondary to HFS+ formatting, then why don't I have this problem on my 6300 which is also formatted with HFS+?  Therefore it's apparently not just from using HFS+
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by:crashoverride
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First of all i am suprised that the G3 boots at all from a disk since it needs it's own enablers so try this use the cd that came with the G3 and install the system onto the zip or make the zip a disk tools disk from the image given then if it is not already system 8.1 on the zip update it. This should boot fine and recognize the HFS+ volume.
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by:jimj
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Enabler?  Well I looked in my G3 HD System folder and didn't see an enabler.  So I wondered if that was the problem so I used the G3 CD and installed system 8.0 on to a new Zip and I saw "System Enabler 770" in that system folder.

But then I updated that system to 8.1 (using the Net download Mac OS 8.1 Update.img), and saw that the enabler was then deleted when the system file was updated to 8.1.  Is this supposed to happen?

For the hell of it I then manually put the enabler back into that system folder but this didn't make any difference. Booting off of the Zip still didn't mount the G3's internal hard drive.
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by:crashoverride
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Try to update the drivers on the internal after booting off of the zip then boot off the internal and update the zip drivers.

use the drive setup 1.4 with 8.1


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by:jimj
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I updated the drivers but it made no difference, still have the same problem.
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by:caeisenb
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My question to you is this:  What method are you using to force the startup from the Zip disk?  Are you using the Startup Disk Control Panel, or are you doing the CMD-OPT-SHFT-Delete?

I look forward to your reply.

-Curtis
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by:jimj
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Good question Curtis.  When using CMD-OPT-SHFT-DEL, to force startup from the Zip, the internal HD does not mount.  But the internal HD does mount when booting from the Zip using the Startup Disk Control Panel.  But even though the startup CP mounts the internal HD, the aliases on the desktop still get reset to appear all over the screen (not just slightly off because of a different screen resolution, but they are placed all over the desktop starting from the upper right hand corner on down).

Fortunately, since I first posted this question "Desktop Resetter" was released which places the aliases back to where they belong. However I still want to know why I have no problem at all with my other Macs, but my G3 when booted from an external disk doesn't mount the HD with cmd-opt-shft-del (although it does with the startup CP - now that's strange why is this?) and even once it's mounted the icon positions are totally screwed up.

I would feel reassured if I could find out if this occurs (both not mounting with cmd-opt-shft-del AND desktop aliases all over the place) with other G3s.  Is this a problem with my computer or is this a problem with all G3s?

In the last few months I've experienced two bad crashes in which my G3 was totally unable to mount the internal HD.  Disk FirstAid was unable to fix (serious mountcheck error) and 3rd party utilites were also unable to fix/mount.  Fortunately I was backed up on Jaz disks.  In all of my years of Mac ownership I've never experienced crashes like these that caused me to reinitialize the HD.  Of course I have to wonder if these crashes and the issues raised here are related.
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WileyKat earned 150 total points
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Very simple why it mounts with startup disk CP, but not cmd-opt-shft-del. The key-combo is telling the computer to ignore the default startup drive in favor of others, so when it finds the Zip disk, it has already bypassed the internal drive, and the system ignores it until you tell it otherwise. You have told the computer to skip first the floppy and then SCSI ID (or IDE for that matter) 0, so it has to move on, and when it does, it no longer thinks that SCSI ID 0 (again, or IDE, whichever you have) even exists. Scanning the bus works, but it will not do it automatically. You have to set the Startup Disk, then the computer is specifically looking for a startup disk in the Zip drive BEFORE looking on the SCSI/IDE bus, although it will still search the floppy drive first. The normal search order is the floppy drive, SCSI/IDE ID 0, any internal drives such as CD-ROM and/or Zip, then the external SCSI bus of seven devices, just FYI.
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by:jimj
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OK, I give up.  I still don't know why my G3 is behaving so different from my other macs and if this means that there's a serious problem.
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