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How to network 2 macs with 10BASET but no HUB?

Posted on 1998-03-27
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Last Modified: 2013-11-13
I am trying to network a Macintosh LC with a 10baseT ethernet card and a 7300/180 using the intneral 10baseT ethernet directly, without using a hub.  I've been told that a crossover UTP cable is needed and that once the cable is connected appletalk should happily switch over to ethernet.  This does not happen.  On both machines, appletalk reports that a network error occured and localtalk will be used instead.  Short of checking the validity of the card, the cable (which is currently in progress) and software (which has been cleanly installed on both machines) is there any error to my methods?

Technical info:
7300/180/32 system 8.1 standard Open Transport.
LC/10/Apple Ethernet Card with driver from Apples Network Software Installer.  system 7.5.3 U2.  Classic Networking.
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Question by:Aurelius
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by:rickyr
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Hi...
While reminding myself of the physics of networking, I found this.....

http://cafe.ambrosiasw.com/netgames/network101.html#chap4

Where they state that....
"While this is great temporary solution, you'll probably
find it inconvenient for a long term solution."
and
"If you are looking for a perminant solution, remember the price for a
small 5 port RJ-45 hub only costs about  $40."

regards
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by:rickyr
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Hi again...
On reflection of this it seems that you don't have a tranciever for the LC.
Buy one for the LC is a definite, and borrow one for the 7300 it may not need one.

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by:Aurelius
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The PDS ethernet card for the LC has a tranciever built in which accessed through the slot at the rear of the machine.
The 7300 has a 10baseT port (tranciever) (and AAUI) as standard.

I did look at the ambrosia page you listed, it has some useful information about cable wiring and recommendations for activating the network.

The led light on the LC card lights up when the cable is connected and both machines are booted, yet ethernet cannot be chosen on either computer.  The 7300 has a 4 second delay before displaying an error while the LC displays an error within a second.  Generally this indicates a software error rather than hardware, yet the card is an apple one (prooven to work on another machine, on another network) and apples network software installer installed quite happily.  I'll compare the cable wiring with the diagrams provided on the Ambrosia website.

This seems to be heading towards software...
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by:Aurelius
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Just correcting my terminology.  It seems a tranceiver is not only something that can transmit and receive but do so between different mediums.  The LC card has a 10baseT port as does the 7300.  10baseT cable connects quite happily into both ports, or if you wish a crossed over UTP cable with RJ45 connectors on either end.  No need for crossbilingualtranceivingarbitrators here.
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by:khemicals
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I don't know a whole lot about mac networking but i do think i notice something that is being ignored unless i am just wrong about this as a whole. ethernet is the way that the NIC/mac transceivers access the data transfer medium (cable) to transmit data... it has nothing to do with the data protocol... ie tcp/ip, appletalk, ipx etc... ethernet is pretty much transparent in that all that needs to be known is that all cards on the network can be physcially connected to each other via a hub, crossover cable (if 2), or via a bnc t connector as in the case of a 10-base 2 network and that they are all running at the same speed or have a switch that connects different speed NIC/transceivers. so, you will never have the choice of ethernet.... what you will have is the choice of data protocol. I know from the little mac networking that i have done that tcp/ip is a protocol that mac supports, and pcs support it too. so instead of working with appletalk (horrible network protocol) i would suggest switching to tcp/ip. i can help you with those settings as i know not a whole lot about appletalk other than the fact that it is very chatty. you will want to set a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 and ips for each of the machines as 10.80.10.1, and 10.80.10.2 respectively... i hope this helps... and if i am clueless let me know... won't hurt my feelings
-khems
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by:Aurelius
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Appletalk *is* the networking protocol, in the appletalk control panel you get to choose by what medium you wish the network to be accessed.  All MacOS computers can network out of the box, via the printer serial port.  This is called local talk.  The absolute minimum reired for this type of network is 1 serial cable (the one from your apple printer will be fine) and standard system extensions/control panels.  So in order to activate this type of network 'localtalk' needs to be selected in the appletalk control panel.  If you wish to network via a different medium, say 10baseT ethernet, once the hardware has been installed (if necessary) there is an 'ethernet' option in the appletalk control panel.  Again, the network protocol here is Appletalk, via the medium 'ethernet'.
I personally think Appletalk is a great protocol, but only because I've never had any trouble with it, as a protocol, it always works, can be completely transparant and is so advanced a child could configure a small office network.  The only downfall is it's only widely used by apple.  :-)  TCP/IP I agree would be a good replacement as a standard, provided certain aspects were more automated.  (still have the option to configure, but in most cases it should not be necesssary to sigularly configure each computer.)

The trouble has been narrowed to the card in the LC, I borrowed a hub so I could test each one individually, the 7300 worked the lc didn't.  Time to take the card back to the dealer and find out how *he* got it to work.  :-)

Rickyr, you're initial comments, where you quoted the Ambrosia web site were helpful and the webpage provided me with some excellent links for my bookmarks.  Post an answer and I'll give ya the points.
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rickyr earned 70 total points
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Hi....
I'm glad that the link...
http://cafe.ambrosiasw.com/netgames/network101.html#chap4
helped you out.
Good luck with the new card.
regards
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