6 X Creative CDROM not working prooerly in win95

Continuation of question :
http://www.experts-exchange.com/jsp/qShow.jsp?ta=hardgen&qid=10044380 

I can't swap CDs in win95 .It only sees the first CD that was in the drive before it started .If i don't have a CD in drive win95 stops working i.e. HD light on for 3 min, unable to run software ...
If i replace the CD it only sees the first one unless I use the CDPLAYER of win95 eject then insert .
Under DOS & Win3.1 it is OK .But can't have the driver for DOS running if want to start win95 .So I have my sbide.sys & mscdex.exe REMed in autoexec.bat & config.sys. The BIOS is recognising the CD620E & so is win95 .It is connected to 2nd primary IDE.
Samer KharsaAsked:
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JBURGHARDTCommented:
Did you try to clean your cd-rom first? You may also load sbide.sys in config.sys windows95 doesn't like mscdex loaded.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Hi Samer: Let's see if you and I can both understand the CD Rom drive scheme and how it works. Here's some basics so you know where I'm coming from.

1. Certain early cd rom drives require a proprietary bus like on a sound card and will not run from the motherboards IDE bus, while others will.

2. Some cd rom drives can't be jumpered as a master and must be jumpered as a slave even though they are the only drive on the respective IDE bus.

3. Some drives require a proprietary cd rom driver and others will run with the A. Early windows default driver; B. The Win95 driver that comes with the retail version; and C. Some will run and identify themselves to the Bios and the operating system and allow the OEM default Atapi driver to be used.

Okay, now in your particular instance, here's what we know. Your cd rom drive is recognized by the Bios at boot and the drive operates in Dos and Win 3.xx. It also operates in Windows 95, but not correctly.

Understanding Mscdex.exe and Windows 95. The 32-bit protected-mode CD-ROM file system (CDFS) implemented in Windows 95 provides improved CD-ROM access performance over the real-mode MSCDEX driver in Windows 3.1 and is a full 32-bit ISO 9660 CD file system. The CDFS driver replaces the 16-bit real-mode MSCDEX driver and features 32-bit protected-mode caching of CD-ROM data. The CDFS driver cache is dynamic and shares the cache memory pool with the 32-bit VFAT driver, requiring no configuration or static allocation on your part.

For some, as yet unknown reason, your system is not switching over from the early Mscdex to the protected mode drivers. This could be a drive problem, driver problem, cable problem, conflict with Mscdex.exe, corrupted protected mode (vxd) driver or a problem in windows 95 itself.

How Windows 95 detects the cd rom drive. Windows 95 must detect the IDE controller before it can detect the CD-ROM drive. After the IDE controller is working properly, the IDE enumerator looks for devices (such as CD-ROM drives) on the controller. The first place to check to see if this is happening correctly is in the hard disk controllers section of device manager. If the controller entry is correct AND doesn't have any conflict symbols, it should be ok.

In some cases, the real-mode drivers for the CD-ROM drive must be loaded in the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat files in order for Windows 95 to successfully detect the CD-ROM drive.

Before Setup examines the computer for installed hardware, it may ask if you have a CD-ROM drive. Setup prompts you for this information only when it cannot find traces (such as CD-ROM drivers in memory) of a proprietary CD-ROM drive. If Setup finds the information, it does not prompt you for this information.

You may be prompted whether there is a CD-ROM drive even when you run Setup from a CD-ROM drive. Setup does this because it needs to know the hardware configuration of the CD-ROM drive. Simply finding Mscdex.exe in the Autoexec.bat file does not provide this information; Setup must still perform detection. After it detects a CD-ROM drive, Setup may leave the CD-ROM device driver in the Config.sys file and remark out Mscdex.exe in the Autoexec.bat file. Although the CD-ROM device driver is loading from the Config.sys file, a protected-mode Windows 95 driver takes over the real-mode driver.

I believe that this is where your running into trouble.

This is the order in which things should be checked. Since we don't know if that specific cd rom drive has a problem with your IDE bus, as a test, change the jumper from master to slave and then start the system. If the drive is still seen by the Bios, then the drive itself is not giving specific parameters to Windows, therefore through drivers you need to identify the drive to windows. You can also check this through device manager by expanding the cd rom tree and checking what ID Windows issued to the drive. If it is correct, then we can be fairly sure that the drive is not the issue. Make sure you check the ribbon cable to make sure there are no defects. Lastly, if your Bios has a boot device feature, make sure boot to the cd rom drive is off if possible.

Next, rename the autoexec.bat and config.sys to autoexec.old and config.old and reboot the system. How does the cd rom device react. Here's some things to check. A. It still should be correctly identified in the cd rom drive section of device manager. B. You should be able to see it in My Computer and if auto notification is set to on, inserting an audio cd should cause the system to play it immediately. C. Lastly, if you click Start, Programs, Msdos Prompt and while there insert a data cd into the drive, you should be able to access the cd from the prompt using the CD command and then run a directory.

Let me know how you work through this and any problems you see.
Dennis
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tstaddonCommented:
It's occured to me that the problem could be supported formats of CDs. For instance, I have found out that a friend of mine with the same CDROM drive can use music CDs and OEM install CDs, but nothing else.

It could be that Windows 95 generally checks for the Joliet file system (ie long filename support) on CDROMS, and the drive doesn't support them.

If the CDROM drive works in DOS, you may find Windows 95 will only work properly with the CDROM drive if it is in compatibility mode. For instance, Chinon SCSI CDROM drives have a habit of throwing up faults in Windows 95 if you use their interface board, unless you use compatibility mode for the drive.
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Samer KharsaAuthor Commented:
Dear Dennis
I was busy lately so couldn't test what you told me to do .

1 )Anyway at the start you talked about some types of early CD-ROMs . I don't know in which category mine is .But I know that the pins on my sound card are fewer than the required for the CD-ROM .
2)I don't think it is a cable problem ,cause when I remove the REM in autoexec.bat ,the drive works fine in DOS & win3.1.
3)When installing win95 it asks me about my hardware & displays some of it .So I check the box next to CD-ROM .
4)As I said before the CD-ROM is connected to the m/b.
   when set to master the BIOS says 2nd master CD-ROM mode 2 & the ID is 0 (win95)
   when set to slave   the BIOS says 2nd slave    CD-ROM mode 2 & the ID is 1 (win95)
5)When I shut down windows\restart the computer in MS-DOS mode , in both master & slave I get :
DRIVE 0: PORT=170 IRQ+15 CD620E 1.01      
 Then I get "DRIVE NOT READY!" when I try to access it (after waiting about 20 sec) ,although the light is off .
6)I didn't understand the "boot device feature" ,did you mean boot device sequence , cause mine is set to A,C,SCSI although I don't have SCSI .
 

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dew_associatesCommented:
Samer, we're at least on the same page now. Let's try moving through the possibilities of what's happening.

Some early cd rom drives do not have Windows 95 protected mode drivers, although your drive is early (6X), it is, as I recall, a Creative Labs drive and should recognize their basic protected mode driver.

In any event, part of the problem is the assignment of IRQ15 in the calling line. IRQ 15 is a reserved system IRQ. Try going into device manager, highlight the first entry "computer" and click properties. Now look for an available IRQ above 3 and below 12 and try any of those available as a subsitute and let me know how the system reacts to the change.
Dennis
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Samer KharsaAuthor Commented:
Dear Dennis
You said that the problem is in the IRQ 15 & that I have to change it to something else.
I have left the 10 & 12 .
I tried them but had some error messages .The pwrsave utility that comes with it says that if I want to assign the IRQ 10 the CDROM should be quaternary. Does this mean 2nd slave?.

My BIOS power management setup has wake up events in doze & standby IRQ: 3,4,8,12 set to ON .
Also the power down & resume events of IRQ: 3,7,14 ON & the rest from 4 till 15 set to OFF.
In the PNP/PCI configuration :
Resources controlled by manual
IRQ:3 & 4 assigned to legacy ISA
IRQ:5,7,9,10,11,12,14,15 & DMA 1,3,5,6,7 assigned to PCI/ISA PnP.

 

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dew_associatesCommented:
Samer, you said, "The pwrsave utility that comes with it says that if I want to assign the IRQ 10 the CDROM should be quaternary. Does this mean 2nd slave?"  Are you certain about the spelling of this error "quaternary". The reason I ask is that it's never come up before and usually I can track these down, but I can't find anything in our database that's even close. By the way, is this an English software version?
Dennis
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rmarottaCommented:
Dennis,
From Sony device driver info about port switch:

 /p:XXX                                
      When user specifies one of the following address, like a /p:xxx,
      the device driver selects the only specified port address.
            Primary         /p:1F0
            Secondary       /p:170
            Tertiary        /p:1E8
            Quaternary      /p:168
Can you see what they're talking about?
Ralph

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Samer KharsaAuthor Commented:
That's right

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dew_associatesCommented:
I was just checking to make sure that we were using the same definitions. I believe the following is what you were referring to, and as you can see, the addressing is not supported.

Check to make sure that the IDE address, IRQ, and port match the table below:
 
IDE Port                              I/O Address     IRQ Lines
---------------------------------------------------------------
Primary (reserved for IDE boot drive) 1F0             14
Secondary (reserved system interrupt) 170             15
Tertiary (not currently supported)    1E8             11, 12
Quaternary (not currently supported)  168             10, 11

Let me see what I can come up with as a driver. Did this cd rom drive work in your friends system under Windows 95?
Dennis
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Samer KharsaAuthor Commented:
He didn't have win95 when he had the drive .
By the way when I replaced it for the first time (unpluged mine & connected this one ) it worked fine .

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dew_associatesCommented:
Samer, without stringing this thread out like the other, we need to determine what has changed between then and now.
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tstaddonCommented:
If you have MS Office Faststart or any cache software, try disabling it.

Try removing any PATH entries to the CDROM drive as well.

This could be the problem, but I doubt it. Still, must be worth a try.
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aszureCommented:
Just for the heck of it, try replacing the drive cable. I had a CDROM that was acting wierd and I replaced the drive cable and it worked fine from there on
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Samer KharsaAuthor Commented:
I will reclean my 8X Creative CDROM & replace it tomorrow .If it works fine in win95 this means the cable is fine .

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mugabenpCommented:
check the jumper setting for the CD. I think the drive is taking control of the bus when you eject the disk. It should be in the slave mode.
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jmcguirCommented:
Do you have any Virus protection programs running?
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mikecrCommented:
If you go into Microsoft Explorer and click on the cdrom (whatever your drive letter is) once and then go to view on the menu and then click on refresh, does it update your screen and then show you what's on the CD?

Thanks,
Mike
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Samer KharsaAuthor Commented:
No it simply me shows me what was in the drive in the first time .
The only way arround this is to run the CDplayer (music) & eject then insert a new CD using its on button .
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dew_associatesCommented:
Samer, do you have "auto insert" running for this cd rom drive?
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Samer KharsaAuthor Commented:
Yes it is on .
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dew_associatesCommented:
This is truly strange. When auto insert is checked, windows explorer should refresh automatically as soon as you change CD's.
Have you noticed any other unusual behavior other than this CD rom drive problem?
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jmcguirCommented:
I'll ask again, do you have any Virus Scanning software running? Windows 95, unlike NT or 3.x, will allow software applications to lock hardware devices. McAfee VirusScan locks some CD drives.
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Samer KharsaAuthor Commented:
i have it on , will i have to unstall it or can disable this lock it makes ?
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Thunder041398Commented:
Go to Settings, Control Panel, System. Look in the tabs for a line that says Disable 32 bit transfers, or something like that. (I don´t remember exactly what the line says). Next unREM the lines in the config.sys and in the autoexec.bat, so that the ms-dos drivers are loaded into memory.

Reboot.

When it loads check again the System and in one of the TABs you will see something like this:

Drive D: Compatibility with MS-Dos

This reduces the performance of the system a little but it have worked for me twice, and you will be able to read perfectly well the CD.

        I hope this can help you.
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Samer KharsaAuthor Commented:
I just want to thank everybody who tried to help. I bought a Teac 32 X CD-ROM for a 100 $ .It is perfect.
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