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Mac to NT networking

Posted on 1998-07-24
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Last Modified: 2013-11-13
I have NT 4.0 sp3 currently with dial up and Macintosh services installed. I just got an new Mac G3 with os 8.1 and a built in ethernet card. I have Nt and the Mac both plugged into an 8 port hub.

It is important to me that I continue to have dial up. I know very little about the Mac and even less about Networking. I dont know much about IP's, workgroups etc. I did however have someone set up the IP in Nt for me.

I need this pretty well mapped out for me. I think I need Apple talk because I need deparately to access my printers through NT. I also need file exchange.

So far I have gotten TCP/IP and Apple talk pointing to ethernet. I dont know what a zone is but there isnt one. I get pretty mixed up when it comes to what to name what on both side. I also have dial up here. I seem to lose that if I try to set up the ethernet.

On the nt side I think everything looks right but nothing is talking to each other. THe adapter is a DEC PCI Fast Ethernet DECchip 21140.

This is about all the info I can think of to give.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.


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Question by:cindy74
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Expert Comment

by:estest
ID: 1581234
Apple talk will not talk to TCP/IP, and TCP/IP will not talk to Apple Talk. You would need a gateway to do that. IF you can get the MAC to talk TCP/IP or the NT machine to talk Apple Talk it will work. Until then, you are not going to get any connectivity from that network.
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by:747
ID: 1581235
It would be better if you could try some things and give real time feedback.  If you are familiar with IRC, I would suggest trying the #macintosh channel on DalNet.
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by:747
ID: 1581236
For file sharing, since you say you have Mac services installed on the NT server, you need to make a Mac Accessible Volume on one of your NT drives.  I think it needs to be on a NTFS formatted partition.  After that you should be able to go to chooser in macintosh and select that folder on the NT drive and it will appear as an icon on your mac desktop.
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by:cindy74
ID: 1581237
I have gotten Apple talk to work and I see my volumn. Yes, it required a NTFS partitian. I have set up the permissions on my printers but when I go to print from the Mac it says it cant be found. It shows up as one of my available printers on the Mac it just cant find it on the PC
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mikhael earned 100 total points
ID: 1581238
As well, you need to set up the printers' drivers on the Mac. I presume you have those. If not then you'll be engaging in some trial and error to see which apple driver can work on your printer. (I'm assuming it's not an apple printer that you have connected to your PC).

Can you advise what printer(s) you are using?
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Author Comment

by:cindy74
ID: 1581239
I have managed to get my Post script HP5MP working on the network. However, my Epson 600 is PCL so I have not been able to network it. I think that is the problem anyway. I already downloaded the Mac versions and have them both available.
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Expert Comment

by:mikhael
ID: 1581240
Cindy74, the Epson 600 is not natively networkable (you would need to attach a print server - messy!). Although with the 600 you can connect the Mac directly (the 600 allows that) will be able to print to it. Of course load the Epson Mac drivers and you should see it in the Chooser.
Is it only the 2 machines on the network?
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Expert Comment

by:mikhael
ID: 1581241
Another point is that the Epson 800 can have an Ethernet card fitted so it is fully networkable.
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by:p05010
ID: 1581242
Look for PC-MAClan from mirramar software.
JUst install the sofwtare on your NT4 workstation/server.
Turn appletalk 'on' on that specific mac and share your MAC.
Don't use a non-appletalk printer on the MAC's printerport !
I use the software at home. NICE software.
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Expert Comment

by:mikhael
ID: 1581243
P05010, I also have used Maclan. I think the software stinks. It is clunky and so non-standard in its approach. And since Cindy has invested in NT server, surely she doesn't need to buy Maclan as well.

Although in fairness, Maclan may make printing easier - I've never really sorted out printing to my NT server printer - an Epson 400 - from my Mac.

Just another point though. I have setup printing from a client's Mac through Maclan to a W95 PC quite successfully, but it often mucks up complicated PS type jobs, such as produced by Quark Express and Adobe Illustrator.

Good luck.
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Author Comment

by:cindy74
ID: 1581244
As far as Maclan is concerned, I went to their web site and read about it too. I see no need for something like that as long as I have NT. It may work well for Windows 95 or 8 but I am not limited to that.

Here is what I have found out about my printers and connection.

I am successfully using "services for Macintosh" on NT which talks directly to AppleTalk on the Mac. Everything works well with files and any post script printers. I have not yet found a way to hook up a PCL printer although there is software such as Birmy that turns it into post script. I have even been able to make it work. The problem with it is I only get 360 dpi which is awful since the Epson 600 gets 1440 dpi. I have spoken to Birmy many times on this and never gotten a satisfactory answer.

I think my only solution short of buying the new version of Birmy (something I have been unwilling to do sight unseen) is to hook the Epson directly to the Mac or port files out to NT and print from there. The problem with that is the way I have set up color on the Mac is different than NT. The only way I am going to be able to connect it directly to my Mac is to add a printer port. The one I have is in use.


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by:p05010
ID: 1581245
Hello again,

Has your Epson printer a double interface, I mean by this an apple compatible serial port and a Centronics (pc) printerport.
I use an Epson Stylus Color (standard with 2 ports) which is directly connected to my PC (NT 4.0) Centronics port and my Performa 630 serial port (Cannot use Apple's printerport because AppleTalk is on for the connection with the pc-maclan software).

So, if your 2 computers are not so far away you could use this solution.

The only problem you can have is that when you are printing and the opposite computer (pc or mac who's not printing) is being reset, the data will scramble and the result is a not so nice output.

Bye,
P05010
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Author Comment

by:cindy74
ID: 1581246
Hi again too!

Do you happen to know where I can get a serial port card? The Apple only has one printer port and I see nothing else that would work. I still have 2 empty PCI slots.

C.
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Expert Comment

by:mikhael
ID: 1581247
Cindy74, The Epson 600 has a parallel port AND an Appletalk port !!!  Provided the computers are physically close enough do it that way. I have made this work very well. And the printer is happy enough with it. (Must have the Epson drivers loaded onto the Mac)

:)

Michael
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Expert Comment

by:p05010
ID: 1581248
mikhael,

Is that Epson 600 Appletalk compatible ?
I thought not because it is simple an RS424 apple serial port, like mine Epson color stylus. This printer is not APPLE TALK compatible. Apple talk comes from the apple talk networking.
I remember that you can attach a little box to chain up 7 apple device and apple server of course. On such a network you can chain up an apple talk printer via the RS424 serial port of that printer. (like putting an ethercard in a printer).
So Cindy can attach that epson onto the Apple printerport (is in fact a serial port but you can turn off an on the apple talk fearture (look in chooser)).

I thought that Cindy was using Apple Talk services under NT. SO Apple Talk must be turned on in the chooser or you have no networking.

CINDY74: Attach the epson printer to the apple's printer port and test the printer with apple talk turned on and off in the CHOOSER. You need to install the epson printer drivers on the Apple computer. And you need a specific serial cord in order to attach the printer (ask your local dealer).

So, TRY try try .....


Bye, P05010
 
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Expert Comment

by:p05010
ID: 1581249
Cindy,

When the printer is attached to the MAC and it's behaving strange (spoiling paper with useless characters) when appletalk is turned on, then it's not APPLE TALK compatible.
see if you can find another round connecter like the printer port (not the adb keyboard port) , it is possible another serial port.

bye,
P05010
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Expert Comment

by:p05010
ID: 1581250
A serial port for your apple can you get by your local apple dealer.  
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Expert Comment

by:mikhael
ID: 1581251
Ok Cindy, p05010 is mostly right and I was partly wrong. The 600 is NOT networkable and thus cannot use the "dongle" (as used for phonenet networks). And, the port on the 600 is NOT for Aplletalk but for a Apple serial printer cable to connect DIRECTLY to your Mac.

And yes, you will probably need to turn Appletalk off (in the Chooser). I have seen the problem of the garbage characters and wasted paper from having Appletalk on.

Ensure you have the printer selected (only can happen after you load the Mac software from the Epson CD or diskettes) and pointing to the correct port (again in the chooser).

Finally, if Appletalk is off, you should still be able to network the computers via TCP/IP or indeed IPX (but, TCP/IP would be better I think).

And yes, try try try.

:)
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Author Comment

by:cindy74
ID: 1581252
MMikhael,

Having AppleTalk on should not cause a problem with my printer because AppleTalk in on an Ethernet card and the printer of coarse would be on a printer port.

The computers have been already networked successfully. I am able to use TCP/IP (dial up), my HP printer and file exchange all at the same time. The remaining question was how to best place the Epson printer which I could probably do with the addition of another printer port as my Wacom tablet is using the main printer port.

One other problem I have noticed is that my HP seems rather slow to me but thats another issue <g>
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Expert Comment

by:p05010
ID: 1581253
Cindy,

believe it or not, but if you turn off Apple Talk in the chooser then it is GLOBAL turned off. This means that your printerport don't send Apple Talk signals but this kind of protocol is also disabled on your Ethernet Card.

An example: I use PC-Maclan that gives my NT 4.0 workstation a kind of Apple Talk service. So when I turn off Apple Talk in the chooser, I cannot share my Apple resources to my PC.
I have to turn it on. But my printer is connected to a second serial port on the MAc.

Like Mikhael said, use another protocol (like TCP/IP), turn off apple talk and connect your Epson to your MAC's printerport.

TRY TRy Try try   :-)

Bye Bye,

P05010
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Expert Comment

by:mikhael
ID: 1581254
Cindy, I think your question is answered...

Re: the HP, ensure your Printer settings are done for each application and maybe even each document. MAC printers don't normally store their preferences globally. You may wish to see if it's always on PS for example? I'm not familiar with this printer and definitely not familiar with the driver

Regards
Michael
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