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BAD or NO DOS under 98

Posted on 1998-07-25
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Win98 and Bad DOS.

I recently upgraded 95 to 98. As advertised the installation WAS pretty much seamless. Right off the bat it fixed a number of little things, and seemed at first blush, be doing everything I could ask of it as well or better with little or no learning or tweaking. Even Quake II was happy but I still don’t think I’m getting the full "Open GL" effect, (but thats another thing) .  Suddenly I began to take notice of something.

Symptom # 1]  It wasn’t shutting down all the way. It seems to be halting JUST before the "It’s Now Safe To Turn Off…." Display. I don’t get that, ever. Usually what I get is a super-darkened version of my wallpaper, and a lockup.

At first I thought nothing of it (wrong!), restarts afterwards were always fine. All settings and changes always intact. Never a "Safe Mode" or default-to-Scandisk  start, (from this).  In addition Re-starts from the Shut-down menu were working perfectly as well…

Symptom # 2. The first time I needed DOS, I went to a DOS window. Failure. I’d used a DOSprompt shortcut left over from 95 and had to GO FIND the "new" one…  girrrr…  So I find it, It feels not right but it comes up. In a WINDOW. I take my DOS strictly FULL SCREEN thank you!. So I hit the Maximize. Black-Out. Lock Up. Re-start. OK. Repeat previous. No Change.  Sometimes the DOS prompt couldn’t be summoned AT ALL. Naturally this made me suspicious. "WHAT ABOUT MY  So-Called-"REAL" DOS?"
You know, the "Shut Down to a DOS prompt" Shut Down menu option?

Sympton # 3. No DOS. The "Shut Down To A DOS Prompt" option results in a black screen no mouse lock up. Everytime.    Once again in re-starting Windows don’t see any thing  wrong and (appears to be) restarts normally.  

OK now it is no longer an ignorable problem. I COULD get real DOS by booting from a floppy, or doing "f8" boot-stop and selecting DOS. But that’s not all.
                      One other thing. I’ve noticed a marked increase in the (system) tendency to lockup during setup or config changes.

Clues. The system had loaded and properly updated/upgraded versions of Norton Utilities V3.04 (or 5) (Upgraded to v3.06 AFTER the 98 was installed). Also Norton Antivirus 4.0. BUT it had been "turned off" a few weeks actually before…  The Live Update (file) 06 for the norton did choke on 2 inconsequential looking files at the VERY end but otherwise seemed to fly about 99%.
NO antivirus stuff was running during the installation. However "Speed Start" and "crashgrard" I think WERE.

Fixes already Tried. RE-installed 98. This re-install was done under a regular harddrive boot to Win98.
I t changed nothing.

One fix I know will work but would prefer to avoid. I have 4 - 970mg  partitions loaded with all kinds of goodies. All of which, converted neat-as-you-please, to FAT32.  I REALLY DON’T want to change them back. I’m assuming that, removing the 98 completely and ‘reverting to’ (back to) win 95, will necessitate those drives giving up the FAT32.   I’ve not doubt the process that includes "format c:" would fix all this.

But that would be too easy. Any MORON could figure that bad, (but workable) answer out. Besides I have my own reasons for not wanting to do it that way.   No gentlemen, just like before, we’re going to fix this one going FORWARD, and we’re going to UNDERSTAND what we fixed when we’re finished.  

SO OK?   Who’s game?
I've only got 100 points on it right now but if things get meaty enough I could kick that up some....
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Question by:SAGWAYMAN
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by:toste
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as far shut down Prolbem goes try run Msconfig.exe
you find it in the C:\Windows\System
go to to Adv Button turn off Fast Shut down

This is just a note
Win98 Upgrade Suck if you realy went to fix all it
Format the drive and do new install
just make sure you can get boot up the CD-Rom up.
with the Boot Disk

All so Norton Utilities & Norton Antivirus can it
Norton Utilities is just a waste memory
Norton Antivirus seem to have Prolbem with Win98
you need wait for Norton Antivirus 5 or go get McAfee Scan
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by:dankh
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Hi,

   Microsoft has identified the above problems and has issued several documents pertaining to it.  Below is the article description and its URL.  

If this helps you, I hope you will reward the points accordingly.


YOUR SHUTDOWN PROBLEMS:
Computer Hangs When Viewing MS-DOS-Based Programs Full-Screen
Last reviewed: June 23, 1998
Article ID: Q187217
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q187/2/17.asp

YOUR DOS PROBLEMS:
Description of Restarting Computer in MS-DOS Mode
Last reviewed: May 28, 1998
Article ID: Q138996
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q138/9/96.asp

Computer Appears to Stop Responding Restarting in MS-DOS Mode
Last reviewed: June 23, 1998
Article ID: Q150323
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q150/3/23.asp

MIGHT BE RELATED:
Problems Restarting Laptop Computer in MS-DOS Mode
Last reviewed: July 21, 1998
Article ID: Q188322
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/3/22.asp

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by:SAGWAYMAN
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hmmm....
i'LL CHECK out the MSconfig.exe you mentioned... And let you know...
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by:dankh
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Hi,

   I forgot to enclose this URL for your shutdown problems of Windows alone:

   
http://support.microsoft.com/support/windows/tshoot/default.asp
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by:SAGWAYMAN
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toste:  I followed your suggestion re: MSconfig.exe. You're right. The default setting is quick shutdown. I disabled it as directed. No effect on either of my MAIN problems. (no complete shut down or, no shut down to DOS mode). I made the change/restarted/tested one/restarted/tested the other. Status same.  Sorry. Nice try though!
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by:dankh
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Hi,

   Microsoft has identified the above problems and have issued several documents pertaining to it.  Below is the article description and its URL.  


YOUR SHUTDOWN PROBLEMS:
Computer Hangs When Viewing MS-DOS-Based Programs Full-Screen
Last reviewed: June 23, 1998
Article ID: Q187217
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q187/2/17.asp

TROUBLESHOOTING SHUTDOWN IN 98
http://support.microsoft.com/support/windows/tshoot/default.asp
 

YOUR DOS PROBLEMS:
Description of Restarting Computer in MS-DOS Mode
Last reviewed: May 28, 1998
Article ID: Q138996
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q138/9/96.asp

Computer Appears to Stop Responding Restarting in MS-DOS Mode
Last reviewed: June 23, 1998
Article ID: Q150323
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q150/3/23.asp

MIGHT BE RELATED:
Problems Restarting Laptop Computer in MS-DOS Mode
Last reviewed: July 21, 1998
Article ID: Q188322
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/3/22.asp

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by:toste
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that ok, it work for me & few other. I thougth my work for you to
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by:SAGWAYMAN
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Dankh;
   I'll have to get back to you....  
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by:dankh
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Sag,

   Take your time.  I know it is a handful.  
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by:dankh
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SAGWAYMAN,  

   I have came upon some new information regarding your Shutdown problem (#1).  Symantec has identified this to be a problem and they have posted it.  Also, when you refer to the update for Norton Utilities, are you talking about 3.07, not 3.06?  If not, then you should get version 3.06.  Here is the URL for the shutdown problem in Win98:

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nunt.nsf/1bcea383ea58bc81852
56553006930eb/3bf216b61068833888256633005a7721?OpenDocument
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by:dankh
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Correction:
   
    The second to last sentence should read 3.07.
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by:SAGWAYMAN
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Dankh, Toste,
Sorry for the lag, but checking out Dankh's suggestions was time consuming as hell. First of all, let me say something about WHY we come here, to the experts exchange. We come, OK I come, for common sense answers from end-users who may have had a similar experience. I have been to Microsoft Web-support on a number occasions, with, mixed results. Diamond MM the same thing. You get a machine generated reply right away. And with-in a week to never, you get your "personalized" response, usually an impersonal form letter looking thing directing you to one or more FAQ's.  MicroSoft ESPECIALLY seems set in their belief that there's no problem you could have with their product(s) that hasn't already been covered in a FAQ.
Still it wouldn't be so bad if, given the FAQ "URL",  you could just cut and paste that, and pop on over and read the FAQ.   If you're not a signed up member, you can't even access the lousy FAQ's!
I come to Experts Exchange with a MicroSoft problem because I'm sick of their BS runaround, NOT to be directed back there.  SO if you KNOW the answer, just tell me! Don't tell me where to go…. If you want to get credit for the answer, give me the answer! (not just the means to find it on my own.) If you want to ADD support to your answer, reference the FAQ. …Or just STEAL IT. Pretend you figured it out on your own, or you just KNEW!…  
Back to the problem…. You were both on the right track, Toste, you suggested MSCONFIG.EXE, the quick shut-down option wasn't the answer, but something else in that was very telling. One of FAQ's also directed me back there. I switched on the option to use a default 480X640 16bit VGA driver. And guess what? The problem went away. So it would appear to be a problem with the Video/video driver/configuration problem. So I downloaded, from DIAMOND, the most recent as well as the "beta" driver.  I worked Sunday, all day, over 30 restarts, on the "display" angle.  No go.  What I concluded was,
That this was yet another in my growing list of STEALTH II S220 horror stories. I've tried every driver/refresh-rate/resolution combination possible. Bottom line? Windows 98 don't LIKE Stealth II.
That is evidenced to me by the fact that, 1. MSCONFIG.EXE proved to me it was a display conflict.  2. Under Win 95 NO such problem existed. In the days prior to the upgrade, no changes of that sort had been made.  In other words, Win95 LIKED it, same card, same driver, same config, Win 98, didn't.

My conclusion was, I need to DITCH that damn STEALTH II P.O.S.  

Dankh, I originally suspected a Symantec Connection in this and despite the above, still do. So your latest comments reference Symantec will be looked at.   I've been there, (symantec's tech support/download page) this week-end also…  The Norton Utilities Upgrade I was referring to was 06. I was just THERE yesterday I don't recall seeing an 07.   The first time I ran it, it ran for almost 15 minutes before reporting "unable to complete…" and a recommendation to re-install from the original disk.  
Right now, most of the Norton Utilities is down, (Speed Disk being an exception). I may or may not re-install. Once again, no Anti-Virus, Norton or Macafee, is now, nor has ever been, loading. I have both Norton AV, and Macafee installed. However both were unloaded from the start-up several days before the upgrade was done and have yet to be restored….
I'm writing from work right now. So I'll let you know how the Norton angle works out. Could be a few days…

During the course of this weekends trouble shooting I came across something usefull. Ref: SCANNER problems. I was in the CMOS/BIOS setup this weekend and noticed a "USB" option, (default was off). Well, I figured, since my computer HAD ONE, (USB port) and '98 supposedly had the support for it, I went ahead and switched it on. On the next restart 98 found, & installed drivers for,  USB, & USB "hub". (There were two.) All appeared fine. I had not asked my SCSI Scanner yet! It worked to a point. The TWAIN Driver came up and the pre-scan worked. But the File Size capasity had been reduced to almost nothing. The scanner didn't return to normal until the, not-being-used-yet-anyway-USB drivers were REMOVED from the system.      

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by:toste
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Hey don't Feel Bad I got ATI Video Card that dosen't Like Win98 & all so have EnsoniqPCI Sound that dosen't like Win98 Directx
Files.

All so if you read this
This is just a note
Win98 Upgrade Suck if you realy went to fix all it
Format the drive and do new install
& that my personal response.
why do I say that well Win98 is more like a Half Breed NTwsk
useing some of code from NTwsk
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by:toste
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Hey don't Feel Bad I got ATI Video Card that dosen't Like Win98 & all so have EnsoniqPCI Sound that dosen't like Win98 Directx
Files.

All so if you read this
This is just a note
Win98 Upgrade Suck if you realy went to fix all it
Format the drive and do new install
& that my personal response.
why do I say that well Win98 is more like a Half Breed NTwsk
useing some of code from NTwsk
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by:toste
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Hey don't Feel Bad I got ATI Video Card that dosen't Like Win98 & all so have EnsoniqPCI Sound that dosen't like Win98 Directx
Files.

All so if you read this
This is just a note
Win98 Upgrade Suck if you realy went to fix all it
Format the drive and do new install
& that my personal response.
why do I say that well Win98 is more like a Half Breed NTwsk
useing some of code from NTwsk
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by:toste
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Hey don't Feel Bad I got ATI Video Card that dosen't Like Win98 & all so have EnsoniqPCI Sound that dosen't like Win98 Directx
Files.

All so if you read this
This is just a note
Win98 Upgrade Suck if you realy went to fix all it
Format the drive and do new install
& that my personal response.
why do I say that well Win98 is more like a Half Breed NTwsk
useing some of code from NTwsk
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by:toste
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Hey don't Feel Bad I got ATI Video Card that dosen't Like Win98 & all so have EnsoniqPCI Sound that dosen't like Win98 Directx
Files.

All so if you read this
This is just a note
Win98 Upgrade Suck if you realy went to fix all it
Format the drive and do new install
& that my personal response.
why do I say that well Win98 is more like a Half Breed NTwsk
useing some of code from NTwsk
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by:toste
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sorry abot that
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by:dankh
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Hi,
     I suggest you go back to Symantec's website and carefully reread things.   Update 3.07 DOES exist and, who knows, this might even solve all your problems.  The link i provided above will not allow you access to the file, however.  Also, i point you to URLs because i don't want to cut n paste 10 pages worth of text.  Due to the forementioned problem above, I will paste some information i think is essential from Symantecs' site below.  As for your other comments about how "experts" should answer questions, i have a simple adage to address that:  Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day.  Teach a man how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.  Also, you should keep in mind whose computer we are trying to fix here.


Norton Utilities 3.0 - Win95 Knowledge Base

Windows 95 or 98 Hangs on Shutdown with System Doctor Running

Situation:

If Norton System Doctor is running, the computer may hang on shutdown. If you close System Doctor or unminimize it (double-click on the light in your system tray) before shutting down, the computer shuts down normally.


Solution:

Symantec is currently working on resolving this issue. You can assist us in solving this issue, or simply wait for the next update to resolve it.

Aside from the work-arounds mentioned above, there are some other steps you can try, up to and including sending us a diagnostic log that we can use to research this situation. The best method of contacting us with this information is to post a message in our System Doctor message group.

Diagnostic troubleshooting steps
Follow these steps to reset System Doctor to its defaults:
1. Save the current sensor configuration in System Doctor by choosing the File menu and choosing Save.
2. Close System Doctor.
3. Click on the Start button, and choose Run.
4. Type:

SYSDOC32.EXE /RESET

and click OK.
5. If this fails to resolve the problem, continue with the next section.

Close other programs in memory
The problem may be due to System Doctor conflicting with another program rather than with Windows 95 or Windows 98. Follow these steps to close other programs in memory:
1. Close all other programs, including icons in the System Tray.
2. Press Ctrl+Alt+Del and "End Task" any remaining items, except Explorer and Systray.
3. If this resolves the problem, add items back into memory until the hang recurs, then notify technical support of your findings. Likely candidates are antivirus or other scanning or utility software.
4. If this fails to resolve the problem, continue with the next section.

NOTE:
Windows 98 users see section below.

Find the offending sensors
Something may prevent System Doctor from removing one or more sensors from memory on shutdown. Follow these steps to identify which sensors, if any, are causing the problem:
1. Save the current sensor configuration in System Doctor by choosing the File menu and choosing Save.
2. Remove all of the sensors by clicking on each sensor and pressing the Delete key.
3. Save this configuration. Call it "None."
4. Shut down the computer.
5. If the computer no longer hangs, add sensors back one at a time, shutting down after each one, until you find the offending sensor. The most likely candidates are the Rescue, WinDoctor, Disk Health, and Disk Optimization sensors.
6. If this fails to resolve the problem, continue with the next section.

Reinstall DCOM95
NOTE:
DCOM is integrated into Windows 98, so the Add/Remove Control Panel does not list it. Do not try to reinstall DCOM in Windows 98.

Follow these steps to reinstall DCOM:
1. Insert the Norton Utilities CD into the CD-ROM drive.
2. If the NU install program loads, close it.
3. Double-click on the My Computer icon on the desktop.
4. Right-click on the NU CD icon, and choose Explore.
5. Double-click the DCOM folder.
6. Double-click the file DCOM95.EXE. Doing so will re-install DCOM95.
7. Restart the computer.
8. Open System Doctor, and shut down the computer again.
9. If this fails to resolve the problem, continue with the next section.

Windows 98 users only
Windows 98 includes a number of new utilities. The System Configuration Utility allows you to conveniently control many aspects of your system. To open it, click on the Start button, point to Programs, then Accessories, then System Tools, and choose System Information. Choose the Tools menu, and choose the configuration utility. A good place to start troubleshooting is the Diagnostic Startup on the General tab. We have had reports that the advanced button on the General tab has an option to turn off fast shutdown, which may resolve the problem until we have a more comprehensive solution.

Norton Utilities 3.0 - Win95 Knowledge Base

Is Norton Utilities Version 3.0 Compatible with Windows 98?

Situation:
You would like to know whether Norton Utilities version 3.0 will run under Windows 98.

Solution:

With the addition of a free patch, Norton Utilities 3.0 for Windows 95 is compatible with Windows 98.

You can obtain the free patch by running LiveUpdate. To get all the changes from this update, you will also need to create a new set of Rescue disks. See the document How to Make Emergency Disks for further information.

If you have not yet installed Windows 98, please run the Registry Optimization in Norton Optimization Wizard, both before and after installing Windows 98. If you have already installed Windows 98, please run the Registry Optimization in Norton Optimization Wizard.

To tell whether your copy is compatible with Windows 98, follow these steps:
1. Open Norton System Doctor.
2. Choose the Help menu, and choose About Norton System Doctor.
3. The window will display the version number, such as "Norton Utilities 3.0.7." If the number displayed here is 3.0.7 or higher, then your copy of Norton Utilities has been updated to be compatible with Windows 98.

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by:SAGWAYMAN
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Now, now, lets not get huffy! <smile!> , I wasn't suggesting you cut and paste 10 pages of whatever… Just if you know the answer, a simple short paraphrase would be nice. As for update 07, I didn't say it didn't exist, ( I don't think), I just said I didn't SEE IT…   As for that trusty old adage, (give a man a fish), I am very familiar with Symantec's and Microsoft's home pages. (I KNOW how to 'fish')  I come to experts exchange to TALK to a PERSON. (Not be referred BACK to Microsoft.).
OK, to the rest of your comments,
Situation # 1. "Windows 95 or 98 Hangs on Shutdown with System Doctor Running". I don't like the system doctor. It's not now, nor ever left running.   It looks like most of the 'paste' is in ref System Doctor which I don't use… There is some interesting looking stuff at the bottom re: "Windows 98 users see section below"  that looks like some good stuff. Thanks.. I'll let you know!

Question What is "DCOM"?  

Actually what I'm "pointed at" at this stage is a "flash" BIOS upgrade for my Stealth II. I want to find out a little more about it first….  

Toste, don't feel bad, I have that same Ensonic PCI sound card! I wasn't real impressed with it EITHER, but I'm not having the problem you described as far as I know….

Gotta run… (shift change) I'll talk to you guys tomorrow night… Thanks! (Feel free to look me up in BIGFOOT and write direct. (David Small, in Italy)

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by:smeebud
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1st. This is a "A Must Fix".

Powering off your machine before Windows 95 displays the message
It's now safe to turn off your computer can have a negative impact on your
system.

The reason it's aust Fix is that flaws in the shutdown process can have serious
ramifications for your system. Because the cache may not have finished dumping
its contents to disk, turning off the machine prematurely can lead to data corruption.
Improper shutdowns can also cause your hard disk to slowly fill up, since Windows 95
may not get the chance to remove temporary files.

Programs in the StartUp folder

Sometimes, a corrupt program in the StartUp folder can prevent your
computer from shutting down properly. To find out if this is the case,
create a new folder and move the contents of your StartUp folder into this
new directory. Next, restart your computer and then try to shut it down. If
the computer shuts down successfully, you can assume that you have a
problem with one of the programs in the StartUp folder. To pinpoint the
troublemaker, you should move the programs back into the StartUp folder one
at a time. After replacing each one, restart your computer and immediately
try to shut it down. If the shutdown process fails, you'll know that the
last program you moved back into the StartUp folder is the one causing your
problem.

To resolve this situation, you can permanently remove the program from the
StartUp folder. However, this program may be critical to you or your users.
In this case, I recommend reinstalling the program, since it may have a
corrupt file. If none of the programs in the StartUp folder are causing
your system to hang during shutdown, you'll have to look elsewhere for the
source of your problem.

To me it's crazy to have a Exit Wave. Why start and app when you're
shutting down. But if you want one........

A damaged Exit Windows sound file can also cause your system to hang. To
determine if this is your case, open Control Panel and double-click the
Sounds icon. Next, click on Exit Windows in the Events list box, choose
None in the Name dropdown list, and click OK.

Now try to shut down Windows 95. If the process is successful, your sound
file may be damaged. You should replace the sound file with one that you
know is functioning properly. By assigning a different sound file and
trying to shut down your computer again, you'll find out if the original
sound file is bad or if you've got a bad sound driver.

Bad device driver

A bad device driver is another possible reason for an unsuccessful
shutdown. The culprit can be a sound driver, as we discussed in the
previous section, or any other device driver, including those for a video
card or a CD-ROM drive.

To test for a bad device driver, create a test hardware profile forn
your system and then delete devices until we find the troublemaker. To
begin, double-click the System icon in Control Panel and select the
Hardware Profiles tab in the System Properties sheet. Next, select the
hardware profile that you're currently using and click the Copy... button.

Windows 95 will now display the Copy Profile dialog box. Type "Test
Configuration" in the To text box then click the OK at the button.
Now, choose the Device Manager tab to display a list of all your
system's installed devices. Next, select a device and click the Remove
button. Windows 95 will display the Confirm Device Removal dialog box.
Choose the Remove from specific configuration radio button and then
choose "Test Configuration" from the Configuration dropdown
list. Finally, click OK to remove the device from your test hardware
profile.

To test for a bad driver, create an alternate hardware profile called "Test Configuration".

Choose "Remove" from specific configuration radio button & select "Test Configuration".

Now, restart your computer. When Windows 95 boots up and asks you which
configuration you want to use, choose Test Configuration. Then, attempt a
shutdown. Repeat this procedure, disabling one device at a time until the
shutdown process is successful.

The last device you disabled before shutdown works properly is probably the
one that's causing your problem. You may have a corrupt device driver, or a
device that either isn't installed correctly or isn't working properly. Try
reinstalling the problem device's driver. If that doesn't help, contact the
manufacturer of the device to see if newer drivers are available.

Let me know if this is of help
See http://www.geocities.com/~budallen/
"Troubleshooting Shutdown"

Bud
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by:SAGWAYMAN
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Yo Smeebud! Welcome aboard!   Good comments. A good fresh angle which is always welcome.

First of all, not to minimize the importance the Shut Down message or the wisdom of the Microsoft programmers decision as to where to PLACE same, but,  I don't think I'm in any real 'danger' due to this. I think my shut-down IS completing the minimum critical functions. From the time I  "enter" the shut down command, to the point at  which the system "locks", is,  a duration of  between 90% and 95% as long as the normal shut-down that produces the Shut Down message.  Second, and more importantly, the subsequent re-starts have NEVER reflected ANYTHING but a normal shut down has just taken place. No "safe mode", no SCANDISK, no loss of any config changes… everything's perfect.    Let's take a second to review the symptoms here.  

  First I'm upgraded. Your letter consistently referred to Win95. I suspect that was a simple oversight, but, just in case, I'm using 98.     The problems,  I suspect,  related to this are:
1. No ability to shut-down to a DOS mode. (a DOS window works but, "poorly".)
2.    A normal Shut Down fails to produce the Shut Down message.    
3. (newly discovered) My screen saver,  (Slide Show with F/X), (which I've had since the computer before this one,  and has  NO history of trouble-causing, ever),  now runs for about 10 minutes and locks up. HARD. Total keyboard lockout. (CTRL/ALT/DEL? forget it) This, (upon restart) DOSE cause the 98-Scandisk thing to kick in but otherwise appears to be harmless beyond being irritating as hell.  

T/S up to now all points at the Video Driver, with a possible Norton Utilities and/or Norton AV tie in.
Via MSCONFIG.EXE, we swapped the Diamond driver for a standard VGA 480 X 640 -16 color driver and presto. The problem went away. The Diamond Drivers have been updated, and re-re-installed ad-nausium,  and a full range of alternate configs tested with each of the different drivers.  End of that story, is if I'm using the correct latest DIAMOND driver, (regardless of how it's configured), the problem remains. Video is a Stealth II.
See question history for more detail on the Symantec Angle.

Bud; I liked very much your outline of how to set up a test configuration/profile. I'll be keeping that handy and may well give it a go. Re: that,  My start-up folder is almost bare. I keep it that way.  I suspect the registry may be loading up a problem though. The SOUND driver/WAV file angle IS interesting because I DO have a "closing wav" (clomping feet on a hardwood floor followed by a creaking hinge, and a slamming door. I love it) My sound is run into a PAIR of separate sound systems which have to be turned on separately each time I turn on the computer, which I don't always do. So a problem in that area could go un-noticed for a while.      When I get home this morning, (at work now), I'm going to re-install that damn ENSONIC PCI sound driver, which, in the past HAS caused bizarre system behavior when it was messed up. Next step will be to completely UN-install ALL Norton ANYTHING,  and put it back ONLY after all is well. (So much for the possibility  "WinDoctor" helping with this)  If after that it's still nfg, my next step will be the  Test Configuration.   Thanks all!  

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Are you still locking up on shutdown??
--------
WINDOW WON'T SHUTDOWN [Part Two]

  When the shut down procedure now appears to stall whilst on the 'Please wait while your
  computer shuts down' screen'
  OR
  System hang's without shutting down; 1st; If you have IE4x and Active Desktop, Disable
  or uninstall Active Desktop, then re-boot.

  If that doesn't fix it, read on.

  Part 2
  Windows Won't Shutdown
  1st. Look in your system.ini for
  [386Enh]
  LocalLoadHigh=1
  Warning: this may cause unpredictable results if you are not using the EMM386 memory
  manager. Remove DoubleSpace/DriveSpace from memory: If it is not there add that line,
  reboot. that should fix it. See that LocalLoadHigh=1 is or is not in you MSDOS.sys. If it
  has a setting of =0 change that to =1

  2nd.
  To determine if the problem is being caused by a memory conflict that still exists when
  Emm386.exe is not loaded from the Config.sys file, follow these steps:

  1.Click the Start button, click Run, type "sysedit" (without quotation marks) in the Open
  box, and then click OK.
  2.Click the Config.sys window.
  3.In the Config.sys file, make sure the following lines exist in this order:
  device=c:\windows\himem.sys

  device=c:\windows\emm386.exe noems x=a000-f7ff
  4.Save the Config.sys file, and then exit System Configuration Editor.
  5.Restart the computer, then shut down Windows 95 and wait for Windows 95 to shut
  down.

  If Windows 95 shuts down properly, the problem may be caused by a memory conflict
  that still exists when Emm386.exe is not loaded from the Config.sys file. For information
  about determining the exact location of the memory conflict, please see the following
  article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base: Locating and Excluding RAM/ROM Addresses
  in the UMA
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q112/8/16.asp
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/tshoot/W95StartUp.asp Article ID: Q145926

  This article lists steps to help you troubleshoot problems using the Shut Down command
  in Windows 95.

  MORE INFORMATION
  When Windows 95 shuts down it performs many functions, including the transition of all
  protected-mode drivers back to real mode, the completion of all disk write functions and
  flushing of the disk cache, and the closing of all currently running programs, which
  includes running the Close Window code for any applications that are running. When
  Windows 95 does not shut down properly, it may appear to stop responding (hang) for
  several minutes, holding at the "Please wait while your computer shuts down" screen.
  Shutdown problems in Windows 95 can be caused by an incompatible, damaged, or
  conflicting device driver, a damaged exit sound file, or incorrectly configured or damaged
  hardware. To troubleshoot this problem, perform the following steps:


                                                         

                              Section 1.

  1. Determine if the shutdown problem is caused by a program loading from the Startup
  folder. To do so, follow these steps:
  a. Reboot the computer and press the SHIFT key until Windows 95 loads.
  b. Click the Start button, and then click Shut Down.
  c. Click Shut Down The Computer, and then click Yes. Wait three minutes for Windows
  95 to shut down. If Windows 95 does not hang, a program being loaded in the Startup
  folder may be causing the problem.

  To determine which program is causing the shutdown problem, remove the icons from the
  Startup folder one at a time. To do so, follow these steps:
  a. Click the Start button, point to Settings, and then click Taskbar.
  b. Click the Start Menu Programs tab, and then click Advanced.
  c. Double-click the Programs folder, and then double-click the Startup folder.
  d. Drag any icon from the Startup folder to the Programs folder and then restart the
  computer.
  e. Shut down Windows 95. Wait for Windows 95 to shut down.
  f. Repeat steps A-E until the shutdown problem no longer occurs.
  Once the program causing the shutdown problem has been identified, contact the
  program's manufacturer for assistance. If removing all the icons from the Startup folder
  does not resolve the problem, continue with these steps.
  2. Determine if the shutdown problem is caused by a command line loading
  automatically from the Win.ini file. To do so, follow these steps:
  a. Click the Start button, click Run, type "sysedit" (without quotation marks) in the Open
  box, and then click OK.
  b. Click the Win.ini window.
  c. Locate the "Load=" and "Run=" lines in the Win.ini file. Place a semicolon (;) at the
  beginning of each line.
  d. Save the changes to the Win.ini file and then quit System Configuration Editor.
  e. Shut down Windows 95. Wait for Windows 95 to shut down.
  If Windows 95 does not hang during shutdown, the problem may be caused by a program
  being loaded from the "Load=" or "Run=" line in the Win.ini file. To determine which
  program is causing the problem, follow these steps:
  a. Click the Start button, click Run, type "sysedit" (without quotation marks) in the Open
  box, and then click OK.
  b. Click the Win.ini window.
  c. Create new "Load=" and "Run=" lines in the Win.ini file. Add one command from the
  original lines.
  d. Save the file, and then quit System Configuration Editor.
  e. Shut down Windows 95. Wait for Windows 95 to shut down.
  f. Repeat steps A-B, add one more command from the original lines, and then repeat
  steps D-E. Repeat this process until Windows 95 hangs during the shutdown process.
  g. Repeat steps A-B, remove the program causing the problem from the "Load=" or
  "Run=" line, and then repeat steps D-E.
  h. After you have identified the program causing the problem, contact the program's
  manufacturer for assistance. If these steps do not resolve the problem, continue with
  step 3.
  3. Determine if the problem is being caused by a command being loaded in the
  Autoexec.bat or Config.sys file. To do so, follow these steps:
  a. Restart Windows 95. When you see the "Starting Windows 95" message, press the
  F8 key, and then choose Step-By-Step Confirmation from the Startup menu.
  b. Press Y at each of the following prompts. Press N for anyother prompts:
  - Load Doublespace driver - Process the system registry -
  DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS - DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS - Load the
  Windows graphical user interface - Load all Windows drivers
  c. Shut down Windows 95. Wait for Windows 95 to shut down.
  If Windows 95 shuts down properly, the problem may be caused by a command line in
  the Autoexec.bat or Config.sys file. To determine which line is causing the problem,
  follow these steps:
  a. Restart Windows 95. When you see the "Starting Windows 95" message, press the
  F8 key, and then choose Step-By-Step Confirmation from the Startup menu.
  b. Press Y for each of the following prompts, plus one additional command. Press N for
  all other prompts:
  - Load Doublespace driver - Process the system registry -
  DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS - DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS - Load the
  Windows graphical user interface - Load all Windows drivers
  c. Shut down Windows 95. Wait for Windows 95 to shut down.
  d. Repeat steps A-C until the problem occurs.
  When the problem occurs, you have identified the command causing the problem. Edit
  the file containing the command and disable the command. If these steps do not resolve
  the problem, continue with step 4.
  4. Determine if the problem is being caused by a memory conflict that still exists when
  Emm386.exe is not loaded from the Config.sys file. To do so, follow these steps:
  a. Click the Start button, click Run, type "sysedit" (without quotation marks) in the Open
  box, and then click OK.
  b. Click the Config.sys window.
  c. In the Config.sys file, make sure the following lines exist in this order:
  device=c:\windows\himem.sys device=c:\windows\emm386.exe noems x=a000-f7ff
  d. Save the Config.sys file, and then quit System Configuration Editor.
  e. Restart the computer.
  f. Shut down Windows 95. Wait for Windows 95 to shut down.
  If Windows 95 shuts down properly, the problem may be caused by a memory conflict
  that still exists when Emm386.exe is not loaded from the Config.sys file. For information
  about determining the exact location of the memory conflict, please see the following
  article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
  ARTICLE-ID: Q112816 TITLE: Locating and Excluding RAM/ROM Addresses in the UMA

  If these steps do not resolve the problem, continue with step 5.
  5. Determine if the problem is being caused by a virtual device driver being loaded from
  the System.ini file. To do so, follow thesesteps:
  a. Click the Start button, click Run, type "sysedit" (without quotation marks) in the Open
  box, and then click OK. Click the System.ini window.
  b. Locate the [386Enh] section of the file.
  c. In the [386Enh] section, place a semicolon (;) at the beginning of each line that begins
  with "Device=" and ends with ".386".
  d. Save the System.ini file, and then quit System Configuration Editor.
  e. Restart Windows 95.
  f. Shut down Windows 95. Wait for Windows 95 to shut down.
  If Windows 95 does not hang during the shutdown process, the problem may be caused
  by a virtual device driver being loaded in the System.ini file. To determine which driver is
  causing the problem, follow these steps:
  a. Click the Start button, click Run, type "sysedit" (without quotation marks) in the Open
  box, and then click OK. Click the System.ini window.
  b. Locate the [386Enh] section of the file.
  c. Remove one of the semicolons that you added in step C above.
  d. Save the System.ini file, and then quit System Configuration Editor.
  e. Restart Windows 95.
  f. Shut down Windows 95. Wait for Windows 95 to shut down.
  g. Repeat steps A-F until the problem reoccurs.
  When the problem reoccurs, you have identified the virtual device driver causing the
  problem. Contact the driver's manufacturer for assistance. If these steps do not resolve
  the problem, continue with step 6.
  6. Determine if the shutdown problem is being caused by a damaged exit sound file. To
  do so, follow these steps:
  a. In Control Panel, double-click Sounds.
  b. In the Events box, click Exit Windows.
  c. In the Name box, click None.
  d. Click OK.
  e. Shut down Windows 95. Wait for Windows 95 to shut down.
  If Windows 95 does not hang during the shut down process, the problem may be caused
  by a damaged exit sound file. Restore the sound file from a backup, or reinstall the
  program that provided the sound file. If these steps do not resolve the problem, continue
  with step 7.
  7. Determine if Advanced Power Management (APM) is causing the shutdown problem.
  To do so, disable it by following these steps.


Let me know.
Bud
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by:SAGWAYMAN
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CUT PASTE AND PRINT!!  YO! Smeebud! Good STUFF!!   Your latest comments/answer looks  VERY good to me. Unfortunately I'm at work right now (12 hour shifts, 7days on 7days off,  mon to mon). I hate to leave the question locked up but, your latest deserves through check-out. And,  Under the circumstances it's probably going to take me 2 days to do that.   I'm going to answer a few of your questions though even though you won't be able to respond until I unlock the question. (there's information in the question history to look me up in Bigfoot or the like and write me direct)

1. Yes I'm still locking up on shut down.  But don't think it's a "lock-up" so much as shut down, just hair's breath away from the orange letters.    
2. I AM running IE 4.0,  but DO NOT use the ACTIVE DESKTOP. Hate it.

Here's the results of last nights/this mornings' t/s.
I removed and re-installed the sound driver. Then , did a shut down with sound on. The closing wav completed just fine. You were saying you didn't see the sence of  "closing wav's" or opening an ap just to shut down. Well I thought of one good reason this afternoon. I have "drip" wav for closing apps. After the WINDOWS SHUT DOWN WAV, are 4 or 5 more "drips" as internal wavs close. ENABELING you to COUNT THEM AS THEY DO.  I never have (when it was 'well') so I don't know for sure how many there ARE but as I recall, it was about 6 or 7, and right now, it sound's like MAYBE one or 2 less. This is all AFTER the Win Shut Down wav has completed, the HD continues to perform shut down actions for several seconds after the shut down wav.   After that I tried shut downs reg, and "to a DOS mode" but were unfortunately, status same.

Next it was bye-bye all Norton ANYthing. The good news was, all the removal routines, (ran from windows add/remove programs) ran flawlessly and no manual removal was necessary. The BAD NEWS is,  Several restarts later, still no change in status.  I think I'll leave the Norton AV and UTLS OFF until I clear this **** up anyway.

I'm looking forward to checking out your most recent comments. It looks like real good stuff.  
Thanks Bud.
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Where do you stand with you problem as of now sagwayman?

Bud
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Hey Bud,    Sorry for the delay... As mentioned I'm working this week, and those are 12hour days. (+travel time) dosn't leave much time or energy for tearing the computer apart when I get home. I haven't even checked my email from home in like 3 days.... Plus I'm having some back problems at the moment putting a big damper on my sitting-in-front-of-a-computer-time. (which is what I'm already doing all night at work) (where I am now....)   Yesterday I DID copy and paste your last ANSWER, printed it out and took it home... I'm hoping to get to it over the weekend... I'm working the weekend too though... Sorry for the delay, but I'm very meticulous about my computer and I don't want whip through that procedure you outlined casually....
Thanks for asking. I apprecaite your continued interest....

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Once again sorry for the delay. Hope for some results tonight....  working on it now....  Thank you all again....

-David
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OK round one:
Bud,
    Help! Right off the top, AS DIRECTED,  I added the line, "LocalLoadHigh=1" to the top of my [386Enh] section in the SYSTEM.INI file. Next it said, to remove Double Space/Drive Space from memory.
1. How do I determine if it’s in there, and  2, how remove it if it is.?  The only way I know is to DRIVE COMPRESS A small portion of one drive and then UNcompress it and follow the prompt to remove the driver…   Anyway I went ahead and restarted the computer with JUST the SysINI change. There was no effect on the situation. Also, as for Enh386 being loaded from the config.sys?, it’s not.  Among early measures taken in this was to first eliminate completely both the auto.bat  & config.sys files later stripped down versions were returned.  Currently They are:

Autoexec.bat   is:
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T2
SET SNDSCAPE=C:\WINDOWS

config.sys  is:

DEVICE=C:\sdr2aspi.sys
LASTDRIVE=X


Moving on to the if "Emh386 is not being loaded from the config.sys, follow these steps…"
will advise….
BTW, "LocalLoadHigh=1" in the system.ini appears to be un-noticed by the system should I remove it anyway?

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OK. Round Two:
In a bit to eliminate the doublespace/Drivespace doubt, I went about compressing a drive. But when it announced I would be losing my UNINSTALL for ’98, I canceled out of that process.
Next I went to the startupfolder and moved it’s contents, 1 item, Diamond InControl tools, to a subfolder.
The computer restarted nicely without it.. Icon gone… …..then initiated a series of restarts and shut-downs with D.I.C.T. disabled. No change in status.  

Re: Items 1. a. under Section One.                 Fortunately I knew you were referring to a Windows/shiftkey Restart….   Um, <…keeping in mind we’re not alone? so to speak!?>   (BTW, the ’98 quickstart time is a BIG improvement over that of Win95! Around half…)

Also, just to double check, I’m noticing again the "95"’s all over this print out I have before me… DOSE IT make any difference that we’re dealing with Windows ‘98 here? (as opposed to 95?)
     Second on the 95 vs 98 thing, I’ve been without one of my favorite tools in all of this. Dose anyone know anything about RECLEAN and ’98? New version? Old one OK?  I have 4.1  

There’s something else probably worthy of mention which I haven’t yet. When you go for the DOS MODE shutdown you usually get stalled before the wallpaper can exit and with a horizontal thin streak of video ‘noise’. (like a VHS tracking bar but much thinner).    My money has LONG been on a ’98 vs Stealth II S220 conflict of some sort…    (All (most current) drivers removed and reloaded adnasium…)

Question, IF that WAS, the case, what do you, bud, (or anybody), think the possibility that there might be a downloadable SW Video DIAGNOSTIC app out there that just might be able to finger this one?

Also, there are 2 "FLASH" BIOS upgrades available for downloading from DIAMOND, specifically  FOR the Stealth S220. I have, and have run,  the first of the two…  The Diamond page wasn’t real clear on what exactly they were/and/or were for and/or how to determine if I (mine), needed one or both… Anybody?

Bud, I followed your instructions for removing ".386" lines from the sys.ini  (& win.ini)  … there were just two. And/But, the other happened to be, (for) the CD ROM. I ";’-out" both drivers anyway. . . good news is the CD ROM was unaffected by the change, the bad news is so was the problem…

WIN.INI    … "LOAD=" AND "RUN=" Are empty. Those are the lines as they appear intuto… no programs to ‘add back’.   (interestingly enough, not even, the CD ROM..?)

Finally I made it to the last line of my print-out, " 7. Determine if Advanced Power Management (APM) is…. and I said…. "uh ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh! NOW you tell me! Tell me??! It ends at "follow these steps" dose it not?  
I had spotted a problem in DEVICE MANAGER with an APM device (or 2). It wanted to run setup files. A suggestion I ignored. Instead instructing it to remove the offender., this was RIGHT AFTER I Upgraded to 98….  "All together now" , "Suuure! Nooow he tells us!!"
To continue:
#1.    How to;  Manually, individually reinstall the "APM" drivers:    …bud? anybody?  
and,
        2. Removing Double/Drive/space from memory… how to…
               subtopic-…What about REGCLEAN?   ..other SW?

3.  Re; the Stealth II /’98 angle….
4.  Re: Symantec/’98 . . . (even though its supposedly uninstalled Both the NAV4.0 and NU3.06 with seeming "seamlessness".  .  .  awhile back now…

Where to?          

re: Grades: If I could have awarded a grade and reopened the question at the same time, It would have been an "A-"

for those who care, don' worry. be happy. we'll remember who said what first...
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OK. Round Two:
In a bit to eliminate the doublespace/Drivespace doubt, I went about compressing a drive. But when it announced I would be losing my UNINSTALL for ’98, I canceled out of that process.
Next I went to the startupfolder and moved it’s contents, 1 item, Diamond InControl tools, to a subfolder.
The computer restarted nicely without it.. Icon gone… …..then initiated a series of restarts and shut-downs with D.I.C.T. disabled. No change in status.  

Re: Items 1. a. under Section One.                 Fortunately I knew you were referring to a Windows/shiftkey Restart….   Um, <…keeping in mind we’re not alone? so to speak!?>   (BTW, the ’98 quickstart time is a BIG improvement over that of Win95! Around half…)

Also, just to double check, I’m noticing again the "95"’s all over this print out I have before me… DOSE IT make any difference that we’re dealing with Windows ‘98 here? (as opposed to 95?)
     Second on the 95 vs 98 thing, I’ve been without one of my favorite tools in all of this. Dose anyone know anything about RECLEAN and ’98? New version? Old one OK?  I have 4.1  

There’s something else probably worthy of mention which I haven’t yet. When you go for the DOS MODE shutdown you usually get stalled before the wallpaper can exit and with a horizontal thin streak of video ‘noise’. (like a VHS tracking bar but much thinner).    My money has LONG been on a ’98 vs Stealth II S220 conflict of some sort…    (All (most current) drivers removed and reloaded adnasium…)

Question, IF that WAS, the case, what do you, bud, (or anybody), think the possibility that there might be a downloadable SW Video DIAGNOSTIC app out there that just might be able to finger this one?

Also, there are 2 "FLASH" BIOS upgrades available for downloading from DIAMOND, specifically  FOR the Stealth S220. I have, and have run,  the first of the two…  The Diamond page wasn’t real clear on what exactly they were/and/or were for and/or how to determine if I (mine), needed one or both… Anybody?

Bud, I followed your instructions for removing ".386" lines from the sys.ini  (& win.ini)  … there were just two. And/But, the other happened to be, (for) the CD ROM. I ";’-out" both drivers anyway. . . good news is the CD ROM was unaffected by the change, the bad news is so was the problem…

WIN.INI    … "LOAD=" AND "RUN=" Are empty. Those are the lines as they appear intuto… no programs to ‘add back’.   (interestingly enough, not even, the CD ROM..?)

Finally I made it to the last line of my print-out, " 7. Determine if Advanced Power Management (APM) is…. and I said…. "uh ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh! NOW you tell me! Tell me??! It ends at "follow these steps" dose it not?  
I had spotted a problem in DEVICE MANAGER with an APM device (or 2). It wanted to run setup files. A suggestion I ignored. Instead instructing it to remove the offender., this was RIGHT AFTER I Upgraded to 98….  "All together now" , "Suuure! Nooow he tells us!!"
To continue:
#1.    How to;  Manually, individually reinstall the "APM" drivers:    …bud? anybody?  
and,
        2. Removing Double/Drive/space from memory… how to…
               subtopic-…What about REGCLEAN?   ..other SW?

3.  Re; the Stealth II /’98 angle….
4.  Re: Symantec/’98 . . . (even though its supposedly uninstalled Both the NAV4.0 and NU3.06 with seeming "seamlessness".  .  .  awhile back now…

Where to?          

re: Grades: If I could have awarded a grade and reopened the question at the same time, It would have been an "A-"

for those who care, don' worry. be happy. we'll remember who said what first...
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Two more Questions.
1. Does anyone know, if, uninstalling 98 in fact means any FAT32 partitions MAY or MAY NOT reamain?
and 2, "Are we having fun yet?"
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Two more Questions.
1. Does anyone know, if, uninstalling 98 in fact means any FAT32 partitions MAY or MAY NOT reamain?
and 2, "Are we having fun yet?"
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by:dankh
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SAG,

    For gods' sake.  Delete this question and repost a new one with your problems and what you have tried.  "Experts" won't touch this one by the mere fact that it reads like a short novel.  :)
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Dankh,  It's about entertainment as education!

The problem is a very concept I don't believe is unclear to anyone. The most possible to date (in order!) were listed nicely at the end of my 4:24pm comments above.  

All,
  New, or newly discovered problem. In Sys Prop’s Device Manager, under System Devices, all appears normal. Expand, all appears normal, but click "refresh" whilst "under" or on System Device’s and it’s INSTANT LOCK. It’s been verf (repeated) once and will be once more as soon as I finish doing this.
And while I’m on the subject, the lockup thing I know I’ve already mentioned at least once, has been under-noted. It’s also locked up at least twice, (maybe 3 times) lately attempting to scan for new hardware...

Whatta ya say all? "When the goin’ gets tough…" and all that eh?…  Keep On? Or…   …format c:  ?    I’d still kinda like to know, at least…  ..Perhaps never exactly UNDERSTAND but, know, something more about it than I do, clearly, up to now…  

 
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by:toste
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I say it agine just Format that Drive and give it up
try fix **** win Win98 all ready f@@k it up in the frist places  
Man win win are ever going to lean that Upgarde Suck
just make sure you can boot up the CD-Rom
and so get all your Video Cards & Sound Cards Drivers
all rest should be in Win98
Yes I wood Go for 32bit Fat Drive
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Toste, It could very well come to that....  Toste, Is there an Non-Microsoft Operating System you would reccomend for genneral purposes?
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Toste,
       You're a trip buddy!
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Well there NT4, OS/2 Warp, BEOS, Linux, Mac, Dos, Caldera OpenDos
NT4 I love this Ahh no DX Support for games
OS/2 Wrap it OK but Hardware Support falling rigth the Chart
BEOS it Hot but no Hardware support Ahh
l think this is one to keep eye out for win there more Hardware Support
Linux Ass Kick but Pain ass to setup
Mac Hmm what I say Dead
Dos weee oh boy life of the Good Day & I can still Web Brower
OpenDos Fast for Dos & it got good Network Support & Web brower to
over all I stall Love my NTwks Fast, Hardware support about so & so hehe don't just love that Win95 & 98 getting all the good stuff
Well let see Non-Microsoft nope why $$$$$$$$$ cost to much rebuy all new apps at this time
unless you got the lots time to Lean Linux must of is apps is Free

 

 
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smeebud earned 100 total points
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Sag, go to my site to the
[Windows 98 Section]
Windows 98 Tips and Tricks Setup, Shortcuts, ext:
mostly :Win98 Troubleshooting"

http://www.geocities.com/~budallen/
Your answeres are there.

Bud
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And/or
go to
http://search.microsoft.com/searchbin/kb/mts.idq?D=win98x+or+ierelease+or+crossnet&A=T&T=B&G=&Fr=0&S=F&T1=&Sz=win98+and+no+and+dos&O=no+dos&MSCOM_SRV=http://www.microsoft.com

and go throught the pertenent articles.

Bud

That's what i doing know.
man do you ask a lot of questions:::)))
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by:SAGWAYMAN
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While I was waiting I, ran the second Diamond Stealth II BIOS upgrade.and downed and ran the REGCLEAN 4.1a both with no effect on the problem...  I'm at Smeebuds Web-site now...
Bud,
But don't I ask good questions?
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by:smeebud
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Oh yes,
very good. it helps me learn.

it's just that the thread gotto long to retain what was said, tried and so forth.
What I mean is I got lost.

Besure you see the Win98 Troubleshooting section.

Bud
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by:dankh
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Sag,

   It is time to retire this question.  It has gone the distance without success; therefore, it is time to put her to sleep.
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by:smeebud
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You asked
1. can I uninstall 98 and keep my FAT32 partitions?
Yes, format drive..

2. How do I, CAN I, Manually re-install the system device I mentiond removing? (power something... see question history....)

You won't have to after you format and start over.

like I said sag. this thread got to long to look thru for
"mentiond removing? (power something... see question history".

I advise your too open a new question and fill us in from the start. Please be specific

ok, Thanks
Bud
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by:SAGWAYMAN
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Well. I got it…  If the answer, in hindsight, wasn’t so obvious,  I’d feel worse about my mistake.
I Had two previous, recent negative experience’s trying to install the Diamond drivers I was getting off the web. I became suspicious my initial assessment of that driver may have been flawed.   I tried again and it went smooth as glass…. Problem solved.!    BUT WAIT!   WE WERE TOLD! But nobody said it right out. "It’s the VIDEO" !!  
     "MSCONFIG.exe" said it loud and clear.  "Remove default Video and if the problem goes away, your video card/driver is not compatable with Windows‘98."  Period.     Toste, you were the first to mention that exe but you didn’t say anything about VIDEO.     It was a FAQ I was directed to by DANKH, that mentioned the msconfig.exe VIDEO option….
     Smeebud over-all provided the most, technically useful and thought provoking comments, and it was in fact his Home Page and the link there to the Microsoft Troubleshooting Wizard/Search.  I pumped in:  "Windows 98 Shut Down", Answered 3 simple questions, and that was it. I went back and re-installed the vid driver. …    It’s not exactly fair I know…  but I gotta put this one to bed.!
 (I hope no one really minds…?)   so…

My apologies to all for this  early-on mistake on my part.   Thanks for your help all!  Thanks for taking part.

David

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by:smeebud
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Great,
I thought you were going to have to start from scratch.
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