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Where is DHCP relay agent service for NT4WS?

Posted on 1998-07-28
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Last Modified: 2013-12-23
Hello,

I'm having some trouble installing this dhcp relay agent service.  When I open Network properties, Services, Add, the mentioned service does not appear as a choice.  At first I thought that maybe the Gateway E-3110 OEM version of NT left this out on purpose.  I spoke with there support people, and they stated that even there non-OEM version did not display this service.  

We have 30 new systems which all do not show this service.  They all have sp3 & TCP/IP.

Keith
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Question by:westbergk
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by:westbergk
ID: 1569295
Edited text of question
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by:omb
ID: 1569296
As I understand your question, you are trying to get NT4.0 workstations to use an existing DHCP server to request IP addresses.  If so checkout the following...

DHCP Clients:

When installing TCP/IP on a system, there is no need to supply TCP/IP configuration information. Instead, there is simply a check box to select to ‘Enable Automatic DHCP Configuration’, which makes the system a ‘DHCP Client’. Once this box is checked, each time the DHCP Client reboots it will send a message out requesting an IP address lease from a DHCP Server.
As long as a DHCP Server responds with an IP address to lease, the DHCP Client will be able to fully load TCP/IP and use TCP/IP to communicate on the network without having to supply any configuration information.

DHCP Servers:
To use DHCP on a given network requires at least one DHCP Server to be on the network. Once the DHCP Server service is installed on a system, a DHCP Scope must be created on the DHCP Server. A DHCP Scope consists of a pool of IP addresses, such as 223.223.223.1 to 223.223.223.200, that the DHCP Server can lease to DHCP Clients.

When the DHCP Server receives a request from a DHCP Client for an IP address lease, the DHCP Server will select an unleased IP address from its pool of IP addresses and offer it to the DHCP Client. In most cases, the DHCP Server will also return additional TCP/IP configuration.

From my understanding, you do not require a dhcp relay agent service.

Hope this helps - good luck.
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by:westbergk
ID: 1569297
omb,

I apologize for leaving out the most important reason for wanting this service.  We are trying to manage our systems over different subnets.  From what I can tell, this is required.
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by:omb
ID: 1569298
How about this for a fix? I have found out that Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 2 (SP2) provides support for a new DHCP
"superscope" feature. This feature allows a Windows NT DHCP server to:

- Support DHCP clients on locally attached networks that have multiple logical subnets on one physical network (sometimes referred to as a "multi-net").
 
- Support DHCP clients on the far side of bootp relay agents, where the network on the far side of the relay agent has multiple logical subnets on one physical network.
 
MORE INFORMATION
================
 
Versions of Windows NT DHCP server prior to Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 2 are not capable of assigning addresses from more than one scope to a given physical subnet. One workaround for this situation is to add additional network interface cards (NICs) to the server, and to address each of the NICs to a given logical IP subnet. This involves additional and otherwise
unnecessary hardware, so a new solution was developed and implemented in SP2.
 
The enhanced DHCP server allows the administrator to create different scopes (ranges of IP addresses), and then to group those scopes together into a superscope.
 
To create a superscope, complete the following steps:
 
1. Create each of the scopes using DHCP Manager. Assign global and scope properties as desired. Be sure to enable each scope.
 
2. In DHCP Manager, select the DHCP server. Click Scope, and then click Superscopes.
 
3. Click Create Superscope, supply a name for the superscope, and then click OK.
 
4. Add the appropriate scopes from the Available Scopes list to the Child Sub-Scopes list (in the reverse order that you want the Child Scopes to be used). When finished, the Child Scopes should be listed from top to bottom in the order that you want addresses to be used from them.
 
5. Click OK.
 
6. If the DHCP server is configured with the IgnorebroadcastFlag DHCP Registry value set to 0, and if the Superscope is on a subnet that is directly attached to the server (that is, not being reached via a DHCP relay agent), then each of the logical subnets must be directly reachable by the DHCP server. This means that there must be a local route to each logical subnet. The easiest way to accomplish this is to add an IP address to the NIC on the local server for each of the logical subnets that it is attached to.
 
Also you might wish to checkout the following article from the Microsoft knowledge base: Q161429 "Configuring a Microsoft Windows NT 4.0 DHCP Server for Unicast".

Hope this helps.

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by:westbergk
ID: 1569299
omb,

I followed your steps, up until the need to select superscope.  This option is not available on the server.  Am I to install sp2, in order to recieve this option?  If so, I suppose then I would need to reinstall sp3.

I'm sorry for all the questions that could easly be answered by just doing it.  But we are in a critical area, so ball park answers would be comforting.
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Expert Comment

by:smorton
ID: 1569300
NT workstation doesn't support the DHCP relay agent service, it can only be a DHCP client.  At least MS doesn't make one for workstation.  It is only available for NT servers.  Your best bet is to use an additional NT server on each segment that acts as a DHCP relay or most routers now will act as a DHCP relay agent.  
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by:westbergk
ID: 1569301
omb,

I'm still unsure on how to aquire this superscope option.  Does the superscope work on routers that do not act as a relay.  I tried just setting one of these systems as a dhcp client, but could not reach pdc.  I suppose this means that the routers are not compliant with this rfc standard.

I'm not real comfortable having to move a server at each of the 8 segments.  A money thing....  I would really like to know more about the superscope, if you can point me in a direction toward installing this option.  And thank you for your time...

keith
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Expert Comment

by:smorton
ID: 1569302
How many NICs are in your server?  Do you have any routers in place?
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by:westbergk
ID: 1569303
omb,

I work on a military installation, where there are many routers.  I do not have access to any, besides the obviouse use.  I know that there is one in each building that contain individuals accessing our domain through login.  There are also others that work in this facility that connect to there own domain, in other areas.  They currently configure there ws's localy.  I would rather configure these systems from my area if possible.

I assume our routers are not capable of relaying, due to trying the normal approach with dhcp client installed and attempting to login normally.

We have 4 servers, of which, each contains a single nic. 1=pdc, 2=bdc/file/application, 1=mail.  Our usage is light/medium, with peak having 25 +/- 5 users.

I take it your thinking that multiple nic may be the solution?
If so, why should I rule out the superscope configuration?  

keith

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Expert Comment

by:smorton
ID: 1569304
What kind of routers are they?  I don't see how superscope would work unless you enable your routers to allow broadcast messages.  This is not a good idea.  If they are CISCO routers odds are that they will act as a DHCP relay agent or DHCP server on its own.  I think you cost effective solution is to research the routers that are in place and use them if you can.  I have a cheap ISDN router and it offer DHCP server services.  If you are in a military situation they probably have better equipment.
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Expert Comment

by:omb
ID: 1569305
westbergk,

Sorry for the delay in reply - I've been away.

For more information on superscopes and for complete steps on how to setup DHCP Superscoping, please refer to the
following articles in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
 
Q161571: "Using DHCP 'Superscopes' to Serve Multiple Logical Subnets"
 
Q163055: "DHCP Client May Fail with NT 4.0 SP2 Multinetted DHCP Server"

Q171016: "RIP Version 2 Does Not Advertise Subnet Routes"

Q121005: "DHCP Options Supported by Clients"

At this stage, I would not rule any suggestions out.  Hope the articles above help with the Superscope side of things.

smorton - you might wish to expand on your suggestion to give westbergk more options.
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by:westbergk
ID: 1569306
omb,

I have read the kb's above, and beleive I have a good idea what it can do.  But I must first locate the Superscope option.
I feel like I'm kicking a dead horse.  Is it possible to incorperate this Superscope or not.  It does not exist on a 4.0 server using sp3.  I've attempted to configure this, but it does not show as a menu choice anywhere.  Again, must I install sp2 to find this option?  I thought every sp incorperated the addons and fix,s from the one before.

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by:westbergk
ID: 1569307
Adjusted points to 200
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jkb2 earned 200 total points
ID: 1569308
I don't believe you want to do a Superscope. A Superscope is the way to assign two separate sets of IP Addresses to one physical network. Since you have multiple routers this is not an option for you.

What I think you are trying to accomplish has to be done within your router. Your router would have to be enabled as a BOOTP Relay Agent. If your router cannot be setup as a BOOTP Relay Agent then I suggest setting up 1 server on each subnet as use it as a workstation (Maybe in a low use area).

NT Workstation CANNOT Be a DHCP Relay Agent.
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Expert Comment

by:smorton
ID: 1569309
jkb2 gives the same answer as mine and you award the points?  What gives?
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