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Windows 98 mouse lockups? (keyboard still works)

Posted on 1998-07-28
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Has anybody had Windows *98* (oem version or otherwise) that has had the mouse freeze up but still accept input from the keyboard.  The mouse will work if you do the Shift-Restart_Windows option during Shutdown (ie soft-windows_reload).  The system in question is just a normal K6-233Mhz Pentium (32Mb SDRAM) with a S3 (375) video card.
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Question by:copus98
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30 Comments
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:dankh
ID: 1643232
hi,

   Go to control panel/system/devices and see if there is an error mark for your mouse.  Check the back of your computer for any loose connections.  Boot into safe mode, go to control panel/system/device remove your mouse driver, and restart in normal windows mode.  The OS should reconize your mouse and configure it for you.  
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Author Comment

by:copus98
ID: 1643233
(Answered by original person-COPUS98)  I have already tried the removing the mouse
from the Device Manager and rebooting.  The mouse doesn't even show up when you
reboot with Windows 98 (but still works).
BUT THE FOLLOWING MAKES THE MOUSE WORK RELIABLY !!! :
  When I turned OFF Ultra-DMA for the Hard Drive in the BIOS, the mouse no longer
  freezes up at all.    Can anyone explain how Ultra-DMA conflicts with COM1 (mouse) ?
  I would like to use Ultra-DMA since it speeds up the slowest component in the computer
  (the hard drive) !
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:strowger
ID: 1643234
It is entirely possible that you have DMA controller problems... they do wierd things when they start to go (such as the above mentioned).
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LVL 3

Expert Comment

by:varun071898
ID: 1643235
Microsoft Press Book on Windows 98 said that some hard disks are
labled by the manufacturers as DMA compatible but have some
firmware bugs. If DMA mode is enabled in these kind of drives
unexpected behaviour can occur. Maybe this is the reason.
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Author Comment

by:copus98
ID: 1643236
Thanks varun!  I'll try to find out what Manafacturer and Model
the questionable hard drive is.  Is is possible to upgrade
a hard drive's firmware?
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LVL 3

Expert Comment

by:varun071898
ID: 1643237
I don't think so, but you may contact your computer manufacturer or the hard disk manufacturer. If they say your hard disk is ok, then I can suggest something else.
0
 

Author Comment

by:copus98
ID: 1643238
Turning off Ultra-DMA did not completely resolve the problem.
The mouse has stopped responding a couple of times.  SO ...
I installed a PS/2 connector on the system and now
use a PS/2 mouse.  The mouse hasn't locked up yet!
I still can't figure out what would make a mouse stop responding
(in Windows 98) if you move the mouse around quickly while the
computer was busy (accessing the hard drive).
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Expert Comment

by:hankc
ID: 1643239
I don't know what brand of mouse you're using or what drivers, but AMD isn't compatable with some (like Logitech).  You might contact AMD support and bounce it off of them.  I nearly lost my mind trying to figure out a similar problem!
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Expert Comment

by:hankc
ID: 1643240
OOPS - I just realized you said Pentium (when I saw K6, I thought AMD)
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Author Comment

by:copus98
ID: 1643241
hankc.. The processor IS an AMD K-6 (233) processor.
-> How can a *mouse* be incompatible with a *processor* ?
.I'll check out AMD's support!
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Expert Comment

by:hankc
ID: 1643242
the mouse probably isn't but the drivers may be.  they'll let you know.
0
 

Author Comment

by:copus98
ID: 1643243
I'm using Windows 98 built-in Serial Mouse Driver.
That should suffice... shouldn't it?
well... really never know with something from Microsoft. :>
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Expert Comment

by:hankc
ID: 1643244
you would think so.  do you know if there are any irq, dma, or any other conflicts?
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LVL 5

Expert Comment

by:nathans
ID: 1643245
I would bet it is a IRQ or DMA confilct.
0
 
LVL 2

Expert Comment

by:k6__
ID: 1643246
A) extract /a win98_22.cab vmouse.vxd
B) copy the vmouse.vxd to :
     C:\<Your Windows Directory>\System
                  And
     C:\<Your Windows Directory>\System\Vmm32

Power-Down Your PC(Shut down) and Restart...

This may resolve the problem =)

 
     

0
 

Author Comment

by:copus98
ID: 1643247
In Windows 98, in the Display Properties, in the Hardware Acceleration box, I slid the bar one tick to the left (from
FULL acceleration).  The description says this position is for problems you may be experiencing with your mouse.  I reattached a serial mouse and haven't seen any lock-ups for 3 or 4 reboots.  I still have to test it some more, though.  I'll post another message with the details....
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LVL 12

Expert Comment

by:Otta
ID: 1643248
> I still can't figure out what would make a mouse stop
> responding  (in Windows 98) if you move the mouse around
> quickly while the computer was busy (accessing the hard drive).

Think about it.  The <central> processor unit (CPU) controls all
the <peripheral> devices, including the <mouse> and the <disk>.
When <multiple> devices are generating "interrupts" at the same time,
the <central> processor has to be able to "handle" this.

If the two peripherals use different IRQ (Interrupt Request Queue) elements,
the CPU can handle <simultaneous> interrupts.
If the two peripherals <share> an IRQ,
then "results can be unpredictable" (to quote IBM).
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Author Comment

by:copus98
ID: 1643249
The primary hard drive (cable) uses IRQ 14.  The
secondary cable uses IRQ 15.  I don't think the mouse
(even a PS/2) uses IRQ 14 or 15.  Otta, have any suggestions?
Do you think it has something to do with that strange
IRQ 2/9 rollover thing and Win98?

Actually, I remember a fellow technician that I work with
found a partly "faulty" CD-ROM drive.  The CDROM wouldn't
let the mouse (actually COM1) work at all when it was connected.
A new CDROM would allow the mouse to work.  Putting back the
faulty CDROM drive would make Windows *95* say
 "A mouse has not been detected on your system.. please connect
 a mouse and press OK"

Anybody have absolutely *ANY* idea why the above would happen??
thx!
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LVL 12

Expert Comment

by:Otta
ID: 1643250
> Anybody have absolutely *ANY* idea
> why the above would happen??

Perhaps the faulty unit was generating IRQ events
on the same IRQ as the mouse,
which can "confuse" the Plug-and-Pray component.
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Expert Comment

by:gosowski
ID: 1643251
Try disabling the USB,, in the CMOS setup.
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LVL 12

Expert Comment

by:public
ID: 1643252
This is probably a motherboard problem. Had the same problem with SiS 5578 Asus motherboard, mouse froze, keyboard worked. Disabling UDMA helped somewhat, but the motherboard never worked reliably, and was tossed. Problem disappeared with non SiS chipset. It is probably a memory / cache timing problem.

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Expert Comment

by:pleazer
ID: 1643254
I have the same problime I traced it down to my mother board after i lost use of my modam and it was working fine (tested it)
try switching the keyboard and the mouse if you get abnormal lock ups or notice any other hardwere problims you might what to have your board looked at. Hope you get it fixed
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Expert Comment

by:mr_t25
ID: 1643255
I have the same problem.  
I have a new Pentium II 400 mhz, 128 SD Ram and my Microsoft mouse freezes after a suspend from win'98.  I have a Supermicro motherboard, top of range, and I believe the bug lies with Bill Gates (as always).

You could use your ATX power supply to suspend the system, but of course this does not solve your problem, neither mine.  I have a Quantum Fireball SE 6.4 gig Ultra DMA hard drive, and my mouse is via the serial port on Com1 rather than a PS/2 mouse.
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Author Comment

by:copus98
ID: 1643256
PROBLEM SOLVED.  The motherboard was at fault!  After the same
customer was having problems printing, we found the printer port
was flakey.  The same motherboard had the random mouse lockups, and also random sound card "skips".  The motherboard was replaced and have had no further problems.  If anybody wants to know the brand of the MB, I don't remember.  
----- Thanks for all the suggesions!  . Scott
0
 

Expert Comment

by:mr_t25
ID: 1643257
hmmm that does not provide me with much condifence!  :)

I hope my new motherboard is not at fault, I doubt very much it is, otherwise something else would have happened by now.  

..the search goes on.
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Expert Comment

by:ruble
ID: 1643258
I think Public deservers the points don't you?
0
 

Author Comment

by:copus98
ID: 1643259
I agree Ruble.  Public deserves the points.  I'll send
Customer Service a message to do so.   Thanks again, Public.
0
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:linda101698
ID: 1643261
public,
Please post an answer to this question so it can be graded.  Your comment lead to the problem being solved.  

Linda Gardner
Customer Service @ Experts Exchange

Regarding question:
       http://www.experts-exchange.com/Q.10067715

     Please give user "Public" the credit to the answer.
     He was the one that pointed out the problem I was having
     was a probable motherboard problem.  He deserves the credit.
     Even though he posted his idea as a comment.
0
 
LVL 12

Accepted Solution

by:
public earned 800 total points
ID: 1643262
This is probably a motherboard problem. Had the same problem with SiS 5578 Asus motherboard, mouse froze, keyboard worked. Disabling UDMA helped somewhat, but the motherboard never worked reliably, and was tossed. Problem disappeared with non SiS chipset. It is probably a memory / cache timing problem.

0
 

Author Comment

by:copus98
ID: 1643263
thanks public
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