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Connecting 8 IDE devices on NT workstation? (worth 150pts)

Posted on 1998-08-18
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Last Modified: 2010-04-12
Help please!
I'm trying to find an IDE controller card that will co-exist with a motherboard IDE controller.  The purpose is so that I may connect 1 harddrive and 7 IDE CD-ROMs in one computer (NT v4 workstation).

BEFORE you suggest the Promise Technology product...STOP!  It's doesn't work!  This company mislead me, their product doesn't work with CD-ROM devices.  I'm currently stuck with a useless product.

The first person that provides me with a workable answer gets 400pts (by this Friday)!!!!

I'm currently researching the following vendors so don't bother to suggest these: SIIG, BOCA..

In addition, I'll require a product that will allow a user definable cache for all 7 IDE CD-ROM drives.  

The most important part is the controller though.  
TIA
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Question by:sconnell
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by:747
ID: 1123152
This is not what you are looking for BUT....

Anytime you need that many devices, you should consider buying a SCSI controller and using SCSI CDs.
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by:sconnell
ID: 1123153
747:  You're right...that's not what I'm looking for :-).  I'm quite knowledgible with SCSI and it's many advantages over IDE but for the purpose of this system (low capacity CD-ROM server), I decided IDE was more appropriate (cost issue).  SCSI CD-ROM drives usually cost 2x as much not including the cost of a Adaptec controller.  

I found an IDE controller (Promise Tech.) and invested in all the neccessary components only to find out that that it has problems with IDE CD-ROM drives.

Anyhow, I'm looking into two other products (Acculogic and Future Domain).  I know there is a way to do this!!  
Thanks anyway.
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by:sconnell
ID: 1123154
747:  You're right...that's not what I'm looking for :-).  I'm quite knowledgible with SCSI and it's many advantages over IDE but for the purpose of this system (low capacity CD-ROM server), I decided IDE was more appropriate (cost issue).  SCSI CD-ROM drives usually cost 2x as much not including the cost of a Adaptec controller.  

I found an IDE controller (Promise Tech.) and invested in all the neccessary components only to find out that that it has problems with IDE CD-ROM drives.

Anyhow, I'm looking into two other products (Acculogic and Future Domain).  I know there is a way to do this!!  
Thanks anyway.
0
 
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Expert Comment

by:datn
ID: 1123155
I have never heard of a controller card that can control that many IDE devices at once. One possible and better solution is to get 2 CD changers instead of wasting your time with all those IDE CDROM's. A 4-disk IDE CD changer costs about $120 and only take up one 40 pin IDE slot.
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by:sconnell
ID: 1123156
747:  You're right...that's not what I'm looking for :-).  I'm quite knowledgible with SCSI and it's many advantages over IDE but for the purpose of this system (low capacity CD-ROM server), I decided IDE was more appropriate (cost issue).  SCSI CD-ROM drives usually cost 2x as much not including the cost of a Adaptec controller.  

I found an IDE controller (Promise Tech.) and invested in all the neccessary components only to find out that that it has problems with IDE CD-ROM drives.

Anyhow, I'm looking into two other products (Acculogic and Future Domain).  I know there is a way to do this!!  
Thanks anyway.
0
 
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Expert Comment

by:datn
ID: 1123157
You can also get a secondary IDE/ATAPI controller for about $70, if you still need it. You can get both the CD changer, which  is 8X for $120 or 4X for $70, and the cheap secondary controller through JDR Microdevices. (www.jdr.com) Good luck.
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by:datn
ID: 1123158
The secondary IDE controller I mentioned only control 2 IDE devices, which would be good for the 2 CD changers.
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by:sconnell
ID: 1123159
Datn: You misunderstood what I wrote.  A motherboard based IDE controller supports 4 IDE devices via 2 IDE channels x 2 devices per channel.  I need a secondary controller that will co-exist with the motherboard IDE controller.  The secondary controller would also have two channels which combined with the motherboard's IDE channels, allows up to eight IDE devices.

BTW, a CD-ROM changer is not practical for multi-user access.

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by:747
ID: 1123160
FYI, I cans still get a SymBIOS UW SCSI controller for $119.

Which Promise controller did you get, I thought they made three different models?
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by:sconnell
ID: 1123161
All the Promise controllers have the same problem.  They cannot consistently read CD-ROM drives.   This company is incompetent, they should get there facts straight!
The cost of the controller is only part of the issue.  It is also the cost of the CD-ROMs drives and the fact that IDE CD-ROM drive are easier to purchase.  I'm building several of these stations....IDE will save me several thousand dollars....
Damn!  I never expected all this trouble though!!!
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by:ryans
ID: 1123162
For the idea of cost and speed, wouldn't a few large hard drives with the use of a "CD-ROM compressor" be more viable. 11GB Maxtors' are going for about $400 Can.


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Expert Comment

by:sjoker
ID: 1123163
Have you considered the need for 2 more irq lines that you would need to accomodate the 4 devices runing of the additional controller. (irq 14 & 15 will be used by the boards controller.
I agree with "ryans" a cheaper solution and faster :) is a large HDD in CD ROM sized partitions.
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Expert Comment

by:rmarotta
ID: 1123164
sconnell,
I have a Reveal IDE controller card made for use with ATAPI/IDE CDROMs.
Printed on the card is Acculogic sIDE-2/CD, FCC I.D. IIV0043300A00.

This card allows secondary, tertiary and quaternary port addresses to be set with jumpers. (170-177, 1E8-1EF, 168-16F)
It supports 4 IRQs, also jumper-configurable. (IRQ-10, 11, 12, 15)

Perhaps the use of two of these cards would solve your problem.

I have not located a website for more information about Acculogic, but there is a BBS at 714-470-1759 that may help you.

I hope this helps,
Ralph
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Expert Comment

by:second
ID: 1123165
1) If you need a user definable cache for al 7 CD-ROMs you must get a controller with 4 IDE chanels = 8max. IDE/ATAPI devices and with some cache (in that case you must disable your motherboard controller becouse it has no cache).
2) If you don't need cache for all 7 CD-ROMs but for only 4 of them (or no one) you can purchase some of the UltraDMA controllers with 2 IDE chanels wich allow 4 devices (with your motherboard that make 8) I don't remember brands or names :(. There was a 8xEIDE cache controller but I think it was ISA and don't support CD-ROMs(ATAPI). I would be hard to find 4x or 8x IDE(or EIDE or UltraDMA) controller wich have cache and support CD-ROM. That is becouse for such pruporses(8x devices) SCSI is more suitable. But I like you choose IDE for your job. Good luck in searching.
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by:sconnell
ID: 1123166
ryans: CD-ROM compressors are nearly useless for the following reasons:
1. Most CD's already have most of their data compressed.
2. I'm often updating our data CD's, the CD-ROM install routine becomes impractical.
3. Backups!  HD's are not as reliable as CDs.  I don't want to add another 5+ GB's of data to my weekly full backup schedule.

Nice idea for some but not for me.

rmarotta: Hello again (You've been helpful before - thanks!).
Unless you can confirm this controller works with CD-ROMs, it works with an on-board controller...and it's available for purchase somewhere....it's not going to be useful to me.  Though, Reveal was not a quality manufacturer.   Acculogic no longer makes IDE controller so don't bother with them (I called).   Can you believe it, this company doesn't have either a web or FTP site!

Okay, here's the deal.... * 400 pts * to the first person that can find an IDE controller that will work for me by this Friday!!

Also, I'm looking for a DVD-RAM drive (in another message)...I'll give another 400 pts. to the first person that can find me a current source for this drive (if it exists and is DVD-ROM compatible with at least one manufacturer)-..... Hell to anyone that finds these two items by Friday....I'll give a total of a 1000 pts!!!!   That's a promise!  I'm desparate!

Basically, my idea is to connect two DVD-ROM drives to this one server so with 5 CD-ROMs and 2 DVD-ROM (5.2gb) drives, that gives me the equivalent storage capacity of 5 + 17 = 22 CD-ROMs from one server.   This means I'll burn about 8 CD-ROMs onto one DVD-RAM.   This is also the reason why I want to do this with IDE...because DVD-ROMs are almost impossible to purchase in SCSI format.

I refuse to believe that this is an impossible task!


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by:sconnell
ID: 1123167
Edited text of question
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by:747
ID: 1123168
My DVD does not have NT drivers.
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by:747
ID: 1123169
OK, here is my opening shot.  I assume you want PCI only?

SIIG, Inc.

www.siig.com

Easy Ultra IDE PCI

•NO BIOS on board. Must work with existing bootable IDE controller
•Conforms to PCI v2.1 Plug-n-Play
•Dual channel design supports up to 4 IDE devices
•Backward compatible with IDE and EIDE/Fast ATA drives •Supports ATAPI devices such as CD-ROM Drives
•Supports 33MB/sec data rate on Ultra ATA drives
•Supports 133MB/sec burst data rate on Ultra ATA drives •Supports Ultra DMA mode 0,1,2 (33.3MB/sec)
•Supports PIO mode 0,1,2,3,4,5 (22.2MB/sec)
•Supports advanced scatter/gather feature to maximize system performance
•Works with Ultra ATA drives and achieves fast 33MB/sec data transfer rate. Breaks the data transfer bottlenecks of storage devices and reduces CPU load. Dramatically improves performance of multimedia applications and other data intensive applications.
•Supports drives up to 8.4GB. Cyclical Redundancy Check (CRC) feature provides data protection verification achieves flawless data transfer.

----------------------- OR -----------------

Ultra IDE Pro

•Dual Channel design supports up to 4 IDE devices
•Backward compatible with IDE and EIDE/Fast ATA drives •Supports ATAPI CD-ROMs
•Fully compatible with PCI plug-and-play
•Supports 33MB/sec data rate on Ultra ATA drives
•Supports 133MB/sec burst data rate on the PCI bus
•Supports Ultra DMA mode 0,1,2 (33.3MB/sec)
•Supports PIO mode 0,1,2,3,4,5(22.2MB/sec)
•Supports advanced scatter/gather feature to maximize system performance
•Supports boot from Ultra ATA drives
•Coexistence with on-board EIDE controller

Can be purchased at www.necx.com
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Expert Comment

by:747
ID: 1123170
Ack!

I didnt read the original question's comment about SIIG.

U can reject if you want.


How about DTC:
http://www.datatechnology.com/products/ide.htm
ISA card but they show NT drivers.

Also look at GSI Model 2C.  This is an ISA card. May need GSI BIOS Manager for use under NT.  Can add 4 more devices using one card.
http://www.gsi-inc.com/products/gsim2c.html

and

Peacock Technologies (in New Zealand?).  No additional info.
http://www.ptech.co.nz/cmd.html
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by:datn
ID: 1123171
Call Tiger Direct for your DVD-Ram re-writeable drive (SCSI-2) with decoder for $999, #A206-1000, or $899 without decoder, #A206-1002. There phone # is 1-800-888-4437.
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by:datn
ID: 1123172
Also, for your secondary controller, call JDR Microdevices at 1-800-538-5000. The model # is MCT-ILBA, which can be used as primary, secondary, or tertiary controller for $70. The product is from Modular Circuit Technology. It is a 16-bit ISA card that can support up to 4  8.4GB-EIDE drives. It also is ATAPI CDROM compatible.
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by:sconnell
ID: 1123173
747 - Thanks!!!  The controllers from both DataTechnology and GSI are exactly what I've been looking for.   Please ignore the fact that I'm rejecting your answer....I just want to leave this question open for one more day.   The problem is, I cannot find a place to purchase the GSI product (better quality).   Any ideas??   BTW, I will be giving you 400pts and an Excellent as soon as I get one in.   Thank you, thank you!!

Datn: Thank you...congratulations!  You've found the only DVD writer drive in existance (so it seems).   Unfortunately, this is not the model (Affinity) I'm looking for.  This one is proprietary and no other device (besides itself) can read the discs it burns.   Not a very useful product, IMO.  

Thanks for all your help, everyone!
BTW, the DVD-RAM writer deal is still on!  400pts if someone can tell me where to purchase one *but* I have a feeling they just do not exist yet!
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747 earned 100 total points
ID: 1123174
http://www.megahaus.com/gsi.html

I cannot vouch for this company since I have never purchased anything from them, however, they have been advertising in national mags for quite some time as a HD supplier.

For a longer list of resellers go to http://www.gsi-inc.com/links.html#Authorized GSI Resellers
there are some well known companies listed there.
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by:datn
ID: 1123175
Sconnell,
I did a lot of searching and the DVD-Ram you're looking for, Panasonic model LF-D100J, is supposed to come out this month via Panasonic Canada. Good luck finding one!
If you can wait until next year, Hitachi is also supposed to come out with a 9.6BG model versus the 5.2GB that Panasonic has.
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by:sconnell
ID: 1123176
747: Thank you again.... I'm going to give you 100pts for now and as soon as Dan adds the new pts I've purchased and I test the GSI product, I'll award you another 300 pts.   This may take about 2 weeks...hopefully this is good for you.   It's too bad Experts-Exchange doesn't allow private messages.  What I'll do is look for an active question you're participating in and contact you from there.

Datn: Been there...but had no luck obtaining info from Pana...if you have details on them or any other manuf., I'll award 400pts to you.   Sorry...20 seconds til a meeting..will write more l8tr.
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Expert Comment

by:second
ID: 1123177
Hitachi already sell a DVD-RAM "GF-1000" next to their DVD-ROM "GD-2000"
But I don't know if you can find double-sided DVD-RAM discs (for 2.6x2=5.2GB)
best wishes!
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Expert Comment

by:second
ID: 1123178
Hitachi already sell a DVD-RAM "GF-1000" and a DVD-ROM "GD-2000". However I don't know if you can find any double-sided DVD-RAM discs (2x2.6=5.2GB) at that moment on the market.
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Expert Comment

by:second
ID: 1123179
Hitachi already sell a DVD-RAM "GF-1000" and a DVD-ROM "GD-2000". However I don't know if you can find any double-sided DVD-RAM discs (2x2.6=5.2GB) at that moment on the market.
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by:sconnell
ID: 1123180
747: If you're still out there, I owe you 300pts.   As soon as you respond, I'll post a 300pt question in 7 the customer service area (Experts-Exchange).

My CD-ROM server with 7 IDE drives is installed and working very well.  FYI, I am using the GSI IDE controller (4 IDE devices) plus the on-board 4 IDE devices for 1 IDE hard drive (for booting up) and 7 CD-ROMs.  The case is from Calf. PC Products (very well built) and I'm using NT v4 workstation (sharing 7 CDs).   I seems to function quite well with several clients accessing different CDs simultaneously.   The best part?  I built this unit for 1/3 of the price of a commercial CD-ROM server!!

My next step is to replace two of the CD-ROM drives with DVD-3 drives.  I plan to copy multiple CDs onto one DVD disk thereby increasing the capacity of this CD-ROM server.

Thanks to all for your help!
Shawn
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Expert Comment

by:747
ID: 1123181
Okie,

I was still on email notification, boy was I surprised...
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by:sconnell
ID: 1123182
Okay....the question is there!
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Expert Comment

by:robwww
ID: 2483317
Have you looked into HiVal?  Product available (I work for a reseller).  Item # HDVDR-00R1/7  SCSI, comes with card.  Media seems available as well.
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