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Questions on CD RE-writers

Posted on 1998-09-11
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I've just bought myself a CD re-writer and would like to know the following.

1. Do you have to format all brand new CDs, or just re-writable ones?

2. Is it possible to copy both data and music tracks to the same CD using DirectCD or Easy CD Creator?  I am trying both, but it is asking me to insert a CD with available space.  I have a re-writable blank CD which I erased some data from so it has space, but it does not seem to accept it.

3. Does the CD have to be a WRitable CD only for music tracks, or can they be re-writable too, so that I can delete the songs if I dont like them later?

4. Why are some CDs 80 minutes long, what is the significance of them and where can I buy them from?

5. I copied a game from an original CD to CD backup, but when I ran the backup it kept asking me to insert the CD with the game on it, yet it was an identical backup.  What is the problem here and how can it be overcome?

6. Can anyone suggest any better software or alternative ones for copying data and music apart from the ones already mentioned above?

7. Is there a difference between a blank CD costing $3 each or one costing $1.50 each.  Can CDs become corruptable if cheaper price, and can cheaper blank CDs affect the sound quality on digital sound tracks when copied onto cheaper CDs?

8. I copied some data to my re-writable CD using DirectCD v2.5, but when I tried it on another PC, it could not read the CD at all.  I later found out via the help feature, that it ISO- xxxx has to be enabled after right clicking in the properties.  The only problem is, is that I upgraded from version 2.0 via Adaptec's web site, and the 2.5 version does not have the ISO bit on the right clicked properties.  Instead it has something like "Enable this CD to be read in other CD ROms" and the box is checked, but greyed out.  What is the best solution to make sure that others can read my CD without having DirectCD also?

Please answer each of the questions in the numbered format i.e 1, 2, 3 etc so I can clearly distinguish between them.

In order to award the points fairly, I shall award them to the one who has written the most detailed response for each answer, and reject those that are contrary to the others opinions or do not appear as detailed as others.  So if the person who gave the most detailed response as a comment becuase someone else has replied, I shall reject it and ask the other person to post as an answer.  I trust this is fair.

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Question by:mr_t25
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by:Otta
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>  I copied a game from an original CD to CD backup,
> but when I ran the backup, it kept asking me to insert
> the CD with the game on it, yet it was an identical backup.
> What is the problem here and how can it be overcome?

Insert the original CD, since it has a different
"volume-label" than the copy.
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by:mr_t25
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I thought that might possibly have been one of the reasons.  My Original CD was called Nba98, while the copying software automatically named the re-writable CD as the current date.
Thanks for confirming this.  1 down, 7 to go.
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by:rmchu
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1. Do you have to format all brand new CDs, or just re-writable ones?
 ** you dont have to format cd's **

2. Is it possible to copy both data and music tracks to the same CD using DirectCD or Easy CD Creator?  I am trying both, but it is asking me to insert a CD with available space.  I have a re-writable blank CD which I erased some data from so it has space, but it does not seem to accept it.

I believe you can copy data and music to the same cd. What you're having problems with is how you're trying to copy the material to the CD.  As you know, music CD's are huge in itself, that's why it can hold around 14 songs on average.  If you're trying to copy ALL of the Music CD and ALL of the Data cd onto that one CD, you can forget it.

3. Does the CD have to be a WRitable CD only for music tracks, or can they be re-writable too, so that I can delete the songs if I dont like them later?

You can use both to put music tracks on them. The re-writeable will allow you to delete them later on if you dont like it anymore.

4. Why are some CDs 80 minutes long, what is the significance of them and where can I buy them from?

Some CDs are 80 minutes long because they hold more DATA as in they hold more MB.  Such as a hard drive. One is 170MB and one is 500MB..which one is going to hold more?   And as usual, if you want the 500MB Hard drive, you're going to have to pay more. There are I believe 650MB and 750MB CD's out there. You can find them at any computer store or mail order company.  750MB are obviously a little bit more expensive.

5. I copied a game from an original CD to CD backup, but when I ran the backup it kept asking me to insert the CD with the game on it, yet it was an identical backup.  What is the problem here and how can it be overcome?

Follow Otta's suggestion.

6. Can anyone suggest any better software or alternative ones for copying data and music apart from the ones already mentioned above?

CDRWin is another popular software for copying cd's.

7. Is there a difference between a blank CD costing $3 each or one costing $1.50 each.  Can CDs become corruptable if cheaper price, and can cheaper blank CDs affect the sound quality on digital sound tracks when copied onto cheaper CDs?

Yes there is a difference between the CD's prices.  The cheaper CD is more easily scratched, has shelf life that is shorter and has higher risk of being copied improperly.  CD's with Blue reflective surface on the writeable side are generally the better ones to get.

8. I copied some data to my re-writable CD using DirectCD v2.5, but when I tried it on another PC, it could not read the CD at all.  I later found out via the help feature, that it ISO- xxxx has to be enabled after right clicking in the properties.  The only problem is, is that I upgraded from version 2.0 via Adaptec's web site, and the 2.5 version does not have the ISO bit on the right clicked properties.  Instead it has something like "Enable this CD to be read in other CD ROms" and the box is checked, but greyed out.  What is the best solution to make sure that others can read my CD without having DirectCD also?

Dont have the slightest clue what you're talking about here. Goodluck on adaptec's support/technial hotlines or website.

A note:  Re-writeable CDRoms aren't all that great.
1) the rewriteable blank cd's cost much much more than a regular writeable cd
2) The re-writeable speed is normally slower than the writeable speed
3) Cd's were meant to be burnt once so that you can't lose vital information.  That's why Floppies have become obsolete, they can lose data easily.


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by:daverolfe
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1
The proposed answer "you don't have to format CD's" is wrong as you know if you have bought a re-writer you format them for use with Direct CD.
2 yes
but i don't use rw's with pro or creator, only direct cd for backups
4
The very cheapest gold cd's will sometimes hold more data than branded i.e when copying things like dragon 7.

Question 5
possible that game was copy protected, i.e with sectors that would appear as errors to copier but are checked by the game, this happens a lot.

7
Agree with the above but my distributor claims there are no differences between gold and silver (green/blue) unbranded CD's

8
If you read the blurb with direct-cd disks created this way can only be read on other rw drives or dvds, however there now is a udf packet reader available to allow other drives to read them.

I don't claim to know that much about CD's but I sell 1 or 2 hundred a week and my customers give me the feedback on what they will and won't do.  I personally have the philips 3610 IDE CD-RW and find it ok though I know some people out there don't like it.

Best of luck with your recording

Dave Rolfe
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by:GLangan
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1. You must format CD-RW's.
    Do not format CD-R's

2.  I have not tried both data and music tracks to 1 CD. If you convert to .wav it can be done. If you copy "Track01.cda" from Windows Explorer, you are not copying music track but title info.

3. Most CD-Rom's will not read CD-RW's
    Conventional CD Players will not read CD-RW's

5.  Did you burn in CD? Most CD-Rom's will not read if not burn in. Some older (or worn out) CD-Rom's will   not read CD-R's at all
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by:mr_t25
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Thanks for the replies, I'm just waiting for some more responses before I grade this answer by mid week.

1. I also think you have to format CDs, but only CD-WR's.  As soon as I insert a CD-R into the drive, Easy CD creator load automatically and asks me details of what I want to copy.  DirectCD does not ask if I want to format.  However when I insert a CD-WR, directCD offers me only the choice of formatting.  I stopped rebooted the computer while it was formating a CD-WR (I know, should not have been done) and when I took the disk out, I could see rings around the area that was burnt, about 20%.  Obviously when I reformatted the whole thing, the whole CD was burned so no rings were present.

If anyone can clarify/confirm this I would grateful, but I think GLangan is right on this one.

2. No I was only trying to copy say 1 song with about 20 megs used on the CD.  I had difficulty doing this.  Any suggestions?

3. ok

4. I should have clarified the question.  Sure I know apart from the obvious fact that an 80min CD can hold more data and songs, but when I meant was are there some software especially put onto 80 min for a security purpose so that they cannot be copied?  I heard that 80 min CD are very difficult to get hold of, none of the shops I been to supply them.  As a result, CD with software cannot be copied unless they also had the extra 6 min capacity?

5. I agree with Otta's response.

6. Is CD-RWIN a freely available software on the net?  Could you give me a URL address and any other addresses for CD authoring software (if you know it).

7. Ok thanks for that.  But are you sure they are not one colour before they are burned and another after?  I noticed a colour change when I formatted my CD-WR.  For some reason my WR-CD is silver, yet they are more expensive, while the CD-R I have is blue.  Is it nothing to do with the type of CD it is?

8. What I was trying to say, was just because I copied some software onto my CD-WR, it was not being recognised on another CD-ROM.  There is a process which needs to be applied before closing the session, called ISO-9660 which convert the CD format into one which can be read by anyone else.  I was having difficulty doing this.  If someone know the easiest way of performing this, whether using DirectCD v2.5, Easy CD Creator or any other software, advice would be appreciated.

Nb. Yes CD-WR are more expensive, and are only slow at recording, on the re-recording.  Fresh recording is done at 4x.  The obvious advantage to me, is the ability to incorporate backup commands within my pkzip batch files to copy data to a CD rom within the dos envoronment.  Task scheduler automatically updates many of my zip files in excess of 60 megs each day of stock price data, and my zip drive cannot handle that sort of capacity.  FUrthermore, it is no "true" fixed, in that it ejects the zip disk at shutdown.


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by:mr_t25
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Forgot to reply to the others.
daverolfe,
What is dragon 7 - copying software?
8. Ok this seems to answer my question.  I have an oem version of DirectCD bundled with my drive, so I have no hard manual and the on-line help is no good.  Since I upgraded to v.2.5 it's telling me about the ISO standard which was only in v.2.0 and not in 2.5!  So I had difficulty.  I have downloaded the UDF patch from Adaptec's site, but I cant find the command to load it in the start up menu.  How should the UDF be run and from where?


>GLangan
1&3 I think you are right here.  I am having trouble getting my other computer to read my CD-WR but will try a bit more.  It would appear silly if someone with heavy grahics could not copy their data to CD-WR use it at work, delete and then take back home for amending, recopying etc

5.  What do you mean by "burned in".  Do you mean formatted? I know for definite my old CD Rom on the other computer can read at least one of my CD-R which I copied, just wont read my CD-WR.  I think I have to change the process or something, unless CD-RW cannot be read at all..not sure.

Thanks all.
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by:GLangan
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3.  Their are some CD-Rom's (like SONY CDU-711) that will read CD-RW but many.

5.  "Burned in" - Organize the disk so it can be read in a standard CD-ROm drive befor ejecting. Do not check  Protect disk so it cannot be written to again if toy want to add more data later.
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by:daverolfe
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dragon 7 is a pirate cd of lots of Microsoft stuff inc. Windows98 and is over 74mins/ 650 Mb but my unbranded golds will copy this.
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by:Techs
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Not all CD ROM Drives are calibrated to read any other CD's than silver. The ones you have to buy. If you want to copy a mixed or duel format CD. First Copy the audio tracks these go on to your hard disk as wave files and then writen back as as audio tracks to the CD. Then copy the data tracks as an ISO file and write it back to the CD. You will need the size of the CD in MB of hard disk space to do this. Adaptec'c Easy -CD Pro is a an "easy" programme to try if you are new to CD writers.
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by:Techs
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One other thought if your copier programme uses windows explore as drag and drop from explore to files to be writen. Just make sure the exploer options is set to show all files or hidden ,system and dll files will be left behind.
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by:mr_t25
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Ok I'm understanding things a lot better now.

Techs,
2. I take it YOU HAVE to convert a track to a *.wav file if you want to put it with data files then?  I thought someone told me sometime back that if you convert it, *.wav file sound quality is not the same as original.  Sometimes I get free promo CDs with my newspaper/magazine, and I am able or I think I was able to play it in my Hi-fi CD and use the same CD to read data off the disk.  With your method, is it possible to do this?  Also how do you convert it to *.wav, is it not possible to to copy an entire track with the software?

"First Copy the audio tracks these go on to your hard disk as wave files and then writen back as as audio tracks to the CD. Then copy the data tracks as an ISO file and write it back to the CD"
- How do you manage to copy the *.wav files as tracks back to the CD and then again as ISO back to CD, surely only copies back once?

6. Anyone suggest any better software for copying?  URL address please too.

daverolfe,
I notice that a lot of CDs these days, inc games pretty much use up the entire CD with zero space left.  How is it possible for someone to copy lots of games/microsoft software onto this one 650 meg dragon CD?  Again I don't know how you get exactly zero capacity.

7. A few other people have said to me that the blue/green underside CDs are much better.  But now I'm confused again as you are saying that gold underside can copy more, but then some you have to copy to silver otherwise they wont copy!??! help!
What colour CD is good for copying audio?  I was told audio is copied digitally i.e 0s and 1s and the CD player converts this back to sound.  In which case any CD will do?

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by:Otta
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> I notice that a lot of CDs these days, inc games pretty
> much use up the entire CD with zero space left. How is
> it possible for someone to copy lots of games/microsoft
> software onto this one 650 meg dragon CD? Again I don't
> know how you get exactly zero capacity.

Easy.  Compare it to putting garbage into a garbage bag,
and then "trimming" the (unused) top of the bag.
Somebody who looks at the "trimmed" bag
will think that the bag is 100% full.
Well, it _NOW_ is, due to the "trimming",
but, when you were loading garbage into it,
it was _NOT_ full at any time.

> What is dragon 7 - copying software?

It's the "disk-label" for a CD full of "pirate" software.
I think that "software piracy" is _ILLEGAL_ .
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by:mr_t25
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There have been several good responses here and I'm finding it difficult to decide who deserves it.  I only wish I could split the points.

Any idea/opinions on who deserves it most?
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by:Otta
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I don't "need" the points.
Eliminate me from the "contest".  
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by:mr_t25
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I found it difficult to decide, but I think it would be fair to award the points to daverolfe this time round.

Thanks for all your contributions.

daverolfe, can you post your name as the answer, thx.

***
One final questionn, I know you dont have to format CD-R unless you want to use it with Direct CD, but can you use a CD-WR for re-writing with Easy CD Creator without formating it for Direct CD?
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daverolfe earned 160 total points
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Thanks mr_t25, as for your final question "can you use a RW with creator" I don't know and would like to find out but have been loathed to try because of the cost, what the heck I'll give it a go and let you know in the form of a comment.
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by:mr_t25
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Thanks for the effort, look forward to reading your final comment.

Rgds.
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by:mr_t25
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Hi

Did you manage to try it all then?
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