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Ethernet Problem?

Posted on 1998-10-05
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Last Modified: 2013-11-17
OK: Hardware is a Pmac 7300 hooked up by category 5 cable to 5-port Intel hub, cat 5 cable to Dell Pentium 200 (3COM NIC, 10 BaseT). This setup can successfully run DAVE 2.0, however, I think it's lame that with Dave I can't dialup TCP/IP for Internet while I'm sharing files. So I am trying PC MacLan. Things seem to be fine on the PC side, on the Mac side, I cannot get AppleTalk control panel to switch to "Ethernet". When I select "Ethernet" it says "an error occured attempting to use Ethernet." It seems to me that if I can successfully shares file with Dave that the hardware is not the problem. Any ideas about the software? The file server is running on Windows 98 and is active when I try to switch to Ethernet. BTW, I just (three days ago) did a full clean install of 8.1
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Question by:cshieh
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by:TheHub
ID: 1536553
Trash your AppleTalk, ASLM, Display, Finder and Sound prefs. Zap the PRAM. Boot with Extensions off. Re-boot normally.
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by:cshieh
ID: 1536554
Followed steps, no luck. Same error message. Two comments:

1. Does AppleTalk require a successful connection with another server or workstation to not give me the error? If so, why doesn't it give me those errors when it switches to modem or printer port?

2. Of course, an easy way to solve all of this is if I could go back to using DAVE and log on to the Internet through dial-up while I am sharing folders. Why is it on Win98 I can have all sorts of different TCP-IP protocols ready to go depending on what I am using it for and Apple seems like it's limited to one global choice? Am I seeing it wrong?

Thanks in advance for continued help.
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Expert Comment

by:padtracer
ID: 1536555
You will get this error if there is no Ethernet link - it thinks you are not connected to anything.  You may want to check your cable and the little lights on your hub to make sure the Hub is seeing the Mac.  If not, you need to do all the usual Ethernet things;  change cables, test cables, test with another Mac, give up, etc.
 Also, you can switch to modem/printer port because LocalTalk doesn't require a link the way Ethernet (EtherTalk) does.
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Author Comment

by:cshieh
ID: 1536556
please note that the current system configuration succesfully runs DAVE 2.0. That suggest to me that the ethernet setup (hardware) is fine. I can successfully share files and printers through Dave, which is TCP-IP. It is only through AppleTalk that I get this problem. am I misunderstanding your answer? if so please re-post. thanks for your help.
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by:TheHub
ID: 1536557
Forget about the PC side of your equation for a moment. If AppleTalk is to use the Ethernet Port, there must be an Ethernet Link. If there is no link sensed, you will get an error and will be unable to connect. These errors only exist for the Ethernet Port for AppleTalk, which is why you do not get the errors when selecting either serial port (modem, printer) as your AppleTalk Port.

If the Ethernet Port is selected as the AppleTalk Port it will share that port with other protocols such as TCP/IP. If you want the Appletalk protocol to be active through Ethernet, you must have a physical connection to at least one Ethernet device, such as a Hub. When you are successful at creating this Ethernet Link, you will be able to switch the AppleTalk Control Panel to the Ethernet Port. Then you can solve for whatever PC side issues you have going on.

It is important to note that the TCP/IP Control Panel and a slew of Open Transport Extensions are required for a TCP/IP connection to take place on the Mac side. Again, you must solve the Mac Side issues before you can reasonably fault one side or the other since both sides require the Mac Side to function correctly (I am assuming that you are attempting to run PC on a Mac).

It is not clear what your current physical connections are inside the Mac. What is a DAVE 2.0? Is a DAVE 2.0 an emulation? Do you have a PC card? Is there a seperate physical volume (hard partition) for the DAVE?
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by:cshieh
ID: 1536558
sorry, let me backtrack a bit. no, I am not running PC on a mac. I have my Pmac connected an Intel hub. Dave is a program that lets me network with my PC through TCP/IP, it masks the Mac computer as a PC entity under "network neighborhood" in Windows. I can successfully run this (TCP/IP through DAVE 2.0). This implies to me that the Ethernet Link is fine, hardware wise. PC MacLan is the opposite of Dave, it masks the PC as an AppleTalk Mac computer so that I can share files with it through Chooser. It is ONLY in the AppleTalk setup that I get this problem. If I use Dave 2.0 (TCP/IP) I can share files between the two computers. How could it be a hardware or setup problem if I can do this under TCP/IP but not under AppleTalk?
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Expert Comment

by:TheHub
ID: 1536559
Q: How could it be a hardware or setup problem if I can do this under TCP/IP but not under AppleTalk?

A: Because of the DAVE mask, which bypasses the Mac protocols in favor of the protocols of the DAVE mask. AppleTalk and TCP/IP do not have to be setup properly on the Mac because they are not used. The DAVE mask redirects calls to these resources to its own resources. The PC MacLan mask must have a different scheme that requires AppleTalk to be configured properly.
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Expert Comment

by:Aurelius
ID: 1536560
Q:  How long is the delay between switching appletalk to ethernet and receiving an error?  An instant error indicates a software problem, whereas a longer delay (generally 2 or more seconds) indicates a hardware problem.  Considering you can sucessfully network through Dave I would be surprised if it is a hardware problem.

Perhaps there could be some remnant of Dave in your system (extensions or otherwise) that is witholding ethernet access.

Q. can you successfully switch appletalk on? (via the chooser)
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by:cshieh
ID: 1536561
i can't switch appletalk on anywhere (not in the control panel, the chooser, or from the control strip).

however, there is a 2 second delay when switching, so that makes it seem like a hardware problem... however, i thought that i had completely uninstalled dave before trying appletalk.
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Expert Comment

by:squint
ID: 1536562
Are you sure you didn't delete an essential extension while removing DAVE, such as "Ethernet Built-in"?

Have you tried booting with just the base OS 8.1 extension set?


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Expert Comment

by:Aurelius
ID: 1536563
Just to clarify:  when you switch Appletalk to the modem/printer port through the Appletalk control panel, are you able to activate appletalk through the chooser?  (or does it remain inactive when you choose 'activate' and give an error)

IF you can't activate appletalk there it's likely you have a software problem.  My first recommendation would be the same as TheHubs initial reply, however I would boot with extensions off (hold shift) first, before trashing any prefs, then reset the PRAM straight away.  (cmd-option-p-r while rebooting)

Also, do a custom install from your system software disk and reinstall your networking software.

At the least, with no network connections you should be able to activate appletalk through the chooser without an error.
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Author Comment

by:cshieh
ID: 1536564
thanks i will be out of town this weekend but will try your fixes once again on Monday.
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TheHub earned 150 total points
ID: 1536565
Fix the Mac problems first. When the Mac works correctly, fix the DAVE thing.
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