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Application Terminate Error

Posted on 1998-10-14
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Last Modified: 2010-04-03
I'm having a bothering problem while working in Photoshop 3.0. The problem happens, most of the times, while  trying to move a selection into a image or copying a selection from one image to another.  Following the error:

'This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shutdown.  If the problem persist, contact the program vendor.
Details: Photoshop caused an invalid page fault in module <unknown> at 0000:020dec03.'

My computer is a CLR 120Mhz Pentium , with 32MB RAM, 1.5GB Hard Disk (with an average of 300MB of free space) and Super VGA ASTVision 7L monitor (17inches).  I use an ArtPad II Wacom tablet.

I can't  think why this error is happening so much, in a computer with this configuration. Please let me know anything you can think about it.  Your help will be highly appreciate.  
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Question by:gpolanco
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by:ironheardt
ID: 1115571
I cant think of anything that would cause this, has it worked ok for a while before this error started showing up? have you loaded anything new since then?....just trying to narrow it down a little. This is a copy of the program you bought right and not a copy, or (Idont even know if there is one) a download right?
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by:Osiris010898
ID: 1115572
There is an update to Photoshop 3.0, it's either 3.01 or 3.02, can't remember, but if your still at 3.0 I'd suggest downloading the update from Adobe, it might help.
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by:Osiris010898
ID: 1115573
...or maybe re-install Photoshop.
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by:gpolanco
ID: 1115574
HiIronHeartd and Osiris. Thanks for your comments. Following answers to your questions:

1) I cant think of anything that would cause this, has it worked ok for a while before this error started showing up?
[GPOLANCO] No, since I installed Photoshop on that computer happens the same. Sometimes, the error frequency  increase and others times it decrease. And the error happens most of the times while dragging selections.

2)Have you loaded anything new since then?....just trying to narrow it down a little.
 [GPOLANCO] No.  My workmates have the same computers and use the same programs and they don’t get this error as frequently as I received it (they get it once in a while, which I think is normal).
 
3)This is a copy of the program you bought right and not a copy, or (Idont even know if there is one) a download right?
[GPOLANCO] I used a license copy. That is we bought the program and I install it from a legal CD.

4) There is an update to Photoshop 3.0, it's either 3.01 or 3.02, can't remember, but if your still at 3.0 I'd suggest downloading the update from Adobe, it might help.
 [GPOLANCO] OK, I will try. Anyway is strange that my workmates don’t has the same problem like I explained above (in item number 2).

5)  ...or maybe re-install Photoshop.
[GPOLANCO] I have made it about 5 times. Also, I have tried:  reinstalling Win 95, changing the memory zinc’s, the hard disk and the microprocessor of my computer and the error still happens.  The last thing I have tried,  and the most confusing,  was changing myself of computer. I worked for about 1.5 day in another computer (one of my workmates computers were the error don’t used to happen)  and the error start to happen in that computer where the error don’t used to happen. Estrange no???

I really don’t know what to think or what to  do. The only think I know is that I can’t continue working like this.  PLEASE HELP.

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by:gpolanco
ID: 1115575
Adjusted points to 345
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by:mwillsher
ID: 1115576
Have you done a virus scan lately?
You say you have reinstalled Win95 and Photoshop 3.0. Did you reinstall Windows and then try Photoshop directly on top of that with no other program installed?
Have you got the latest drivers for your hardware (esp. gfx card)?
The upgrade sounds the most likely solution though, especially if it's happening on others machines as well. Maybe it's the way you use Photoshop that is exposing the bug more frequently than on others machines.
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by:jimat
ID: 1115577
invalid page faults in Win95 indicate a memory resource problem. What are your swapfile settings?  Control Panel>System>Performance>Virtural Memory
For your system I would recommend minimum=32mg &  maximum =180/200 mg
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by:davejenkins
ID: 1115578
jimat is right on with his analysis (in my opinion).  You're crashing when you're trying to get something through your clipboard (when you are cutting and pasting).  This indicates you don't have enough memory to handle what you're trying to move.

Set more virtual memory, and buy more RAM (it's cheap!!).
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by:jimat
ID: 1115579
does this mean the proposed answer is that my comment is the correct answer?
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by:singy
ID: 1115580
Does it only happen when you use the key commands or does it happen when you copy + paste using the menu?

Photoshop loves RAM,  feed it, the more the better. Also as much free HD as a scratch disk.
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Author Comment

by:gpolanco
ID: 1115581
Hi guys, I still haven’t tried the solution Davejenkins and Jimat have proposed to solve the problem.  I’m working on it (I had many things to try).  I will let you know as soon as I have any results.  Following,  I will answer some questions that Mwillsher, Jimat and Singy had made in their last comments:

1)  Have you done a virus scan lately? Yes, actually I always have the Cheyenne Antivirus load in memory.
2)  You say you have reinstalled Win95 and Photoshop 3.0. Did you reinstall Windows and then try Photoshop directly on top of that with no other program installed? No, because I also reinstall the others programs I use (Painter, OutLook, PaintShopPro, etc) before I start to work again.  I will try this way.
3)  Have you got the latest drivers for your hardware (esp. gfx card)? No. I will try this too.
4)  What are your swapfile settings? I let windows manage my virtual memory settings (it is recommended).  Do you think is better to set myself  the virtual memory swap file??
5)  Does it only happen when you use the key commands or does it happen when you copy + paste using the menu? It usually happens while dragging the selections.  I use my Wacom Pen to drag.

Well, as you see a have a lot of things to try.  Thanks for all your comments. I really appreciate them.  

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by:jimat
ID: 1115582
As far as managing your own swapfile settings....
Win can be really stupid sometimes...well... actually alot. It has trouble understanding that you might run a memory intensive prog. like Photoshop.
 It certainly won't hurt to try my previous suggestion. With the relatively small amount of RAM you're running and the realtively small amount of free hdd space you have Win is probably being very conservitive.
 If you increase your RAM increase the swapfile minimum to the amount of RAM. (you can never have too much RAM... within the limits of your motherboard and pocket book)
If you do hapen to experience any problems when you reset your swapfile you can always  change it. Lower the maximum by 10 mb at a time until things smooth out.
Just be certain to KEEP AN EYE ON free hdd space. you don't want to lock up useable space that you'll need for storage.
 See if you can clean out unneeded stuff. Web browsers's cache files are notorious space hogs.Clean 'em out. Anything you don't need right now but want ot save...zip it up. Zip lots of related files into one big one and delete the originals. Unzipping single files from a big zip file is a piece o' cake with Winzip (shareware).
Look for unneeded copies of pictures you are/have been working on. All sorts of stuff. The more room the better.
Let me know if you need any more help/ideas.  :-)
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by:jimat
ID: 1115583
Oops! More ideas.
What other programs are running? Check the task bar>bottom right corner of the desktop.
Right right click any icons there and "properties" will tell you what they are. If you don't need then at thet time you're running Photo then close them. this will free up more resources. You can start them later or they will start again at boot up. whatever you wish.
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by:WingMan
ID: 1115584
Gpolanco,

This problem has nothing to do with your computer. This MAYBE has something to do with several DLL's on your computer.

The program, in this case photoshop, has performed an illagal operation. Photoshop is trying to make an operation that windows doesn't want it to make or photoshop wants to make an impossible operation that windows can't cope with. Windows terminates the program therefor.

The problem can be in some DLL's it overwrites in Windows, maybe an old DLL or something like that. Maybe photoshop want's to use some memoryplace that also an other program uses. Windows doesn't accept this so it terminates the program so that the other program will work and don't notice anything that windows terminated a program in this case photoshop.

A solution to this problem can be crashprevension programs. These programs prevent other programs to crash, but you risk losing information that other programs have.
Or don't install that many programs on your computer, or don't use about 5 programs at a time.
I think that Nuts and Bolts of windows 95 or 98 has someking of utility for this.
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by:jimat
ID: 1115585
WingMan, inspite of his opening statement, pretty much validates my proposal.
>Windows and memory<
WingMan: It has everything to do with the computer... that's what gpolanco is using to run the software.  :-)
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by:kmsadr
ID: 1115586
I have had similar problems with Photoshop. From what I have read most of the these kind of errors are actually caused by bugs in Windows. The only software that runs really well with Windows is guess what? Microsoft products.
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by:jimat
ID: 1115587
kmsadr: even microsux products have problems with Win, but I have been running PS 4 for almost a year without any problems other than a slowdown now and then. That's to be expected with only 64MB of RAM and background programs running.
I guess you could call the problems with Win "bugs"... my opinion is that they were not very good at stealing Apple's opreating system and just can't get it quite right (still).
 >    By the way, davejenkins' proposed answer was, in essence, that my comment was the correct answer and we havn't heard from gpolanco in almost a month. Now what?
If davejenkins gets credit for  his answer then I should get the points. (not meaning to be greedy, but to propose an answer that says someone else was right seems unfair).

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by:gpolanco
ID: 1115588
Hi jimat, I haven't answer yet because (like I told you before) I'm still trying things. I'm not conform with the fact of bying more memory if my workmates have their computers with exactly the same configuration as me.  It don't mean to be greendy (buy more RAM), is just that I want to find the point.  The last thing I have done was borrow my computer to one of my workmades. He have work around two weeks on my computer, using Photoshop,  and he haven't had any problem with it. He didn't get the error and He could work perfectly.

About who will get the points if I decided to buy more RAM and it solve my problem, I could undertand you. Let me know if I could do something about it.
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by:jimat
ID: 1115589
More RAM is always a wonderful option especially when running memory intensive programs like Photoshop. 32MB is probably a realistic minimum for these types of operations. You'd be amazed how much faster things run with more RAM.
       But you can get by without upgrading to more RAM. You just to have to be careful about running other programs while you're running PS. (see my previous comments about this)
Adjusting your Swapfile and freeing up space on your HDD (also previous comments) will help, also.
I'll be glad to provide any additional information if you need it.
Don't forget about us.
   :-)

Almost forgot...
If you have access to Norton Utilities, Norton's Speed disk will help things run faster in a lot of cases. If you don't have Norton then the Disk Defragmenter that comes with Windows works OK (it's actually VERY similar to the older versions of Norton Speed disk... wonder why?)
Just click Start>Programs>Accessories>SystemTools>Disk Defragmenter
Use the Advanced setting "Full Defrag.... files & space"
Bye
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by:Patricia Siu-Lai Ho
ID: 1115590
To gpolanco,
After reading so many comments on your questions that other advisors had given you, would like to further furnish it especially the idea of jimat.
1)increasing ram from 32mb to 64mb- jimat hinted.
  Your friend have 32mb Pc and work Photoshop 3.0 without your problem. Then you would like him to give you a help.
  Here, would like to point out that you can check your system by yourself,too.
For window95, system used up at least 24mb. Only about 10mb is ready for applications. Then photoshop recommend using swapfile as virtual memory so that you can use your harddisk to temporarily hold your working images before saving.
Virtual memory is suggested about twice of your Ram. Then set at the Photoshop 3.0 at the preference - virtual memory allocated 64mb.  It is assumed at least 64mb of your hard disk will be used as swapfile.

But in practicing, normally when you editing 24bit RGB images with layering. Your can see how photoshop use your harddisk and ram resources. At the lefthand bottom corner of photoshop, your can click on the toolbar and a small popup menu having the document size/scratch Size. Since you have about 300mb free spaces. you can see when you open a single layer, how much the document and scratch size is increased. Most of the time for a document size 24mb , the scratch size for may increase to 150mb about 5 times.

Ways to solve:
1)increase ram to 64mb min.
2)free up more harddisk space  to 350-400mb. (you can edit 4-5 layers of RBG 260dpi A4 size images.
3)if ram still 32mb, max free spaces 300mb.
you can use following method of handling drag selection and cut and past.
a)saved the selection that you want to drag/copy as a new file(B). Open the destinated file (C) and the file (B). Adjusted the size/dpi of the file (B) to be the same as your destinated file(C). Then open the file C in PS, load the selection as from file (B) which is only a multichannel file. Then you can by-pass the use of your ram and has a very small swap-files.

Technique 3 is a normal practice for my working team on comics for years as a basic technique in handling graphics of Photoshop. Images editing varies. We cannot increase the ram to 80mb, 128mb or even 256mb.  However, by much a technique we can handle multilayering and multichannel.
     
Hope it can help you        ---------- Pslh    
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by:jimat
ID: 1115591
gpolanco:
I just got back into town after an extended business trip and saw your response.
I hope you are having some success with your problem. Lots of good advice from all of the above people.
If you do decide to accept my suggestions as the answer you can reject the proposed answer and ask me to post something as an answer which you can then accept. Whatever happens, just keep us posted.  :-)
Bye
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Author Comment

by:gpolanco
ID: 1115592
I decide to accept Jimat suggestions.  I will accept the propose answer, but I think is unfair not to give Jimat the points, afterall the propose answer says that someone else, jimat, was right. So, Jimat please post the best of your comments as a propose answer, I will accept it.  

Anyway, thanks to all of you because all of you have help me in someway.  I hope not to post again the same question next year.

Bye, Gpolanco.

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by:kmsadr
ID: 1115593
I also agree with the ramorama suggestion. I had the same problem when I was using Photoshop on 32 megabytes in a 166 pentium. Now I have a 333 with 128 megs of RAM and I have not had this problem since. Its fabulous. I also had a crash prevention program installed on the 166 computer and it did prevent a lot of lost work. But RAM is the key. My comment about windows bugs was just obnoxiousness. Good luck.
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jimat earned 340 total points
ID: 1115594
gpolanco:
Thanks. Here's a quick summary: More RAM, tweak your swapfile settings, get rid of un-needed space hogs on your HDD, de-fragment your HDD, & don't run un-needed programs in the background while working in PS.
I hope you have solved your problem.
Jimat
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