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Win95 setup failure

Posted on 1998-10-17
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Last Modified: 2013-12-16
I have put a new pentium motherboard into a PC, it boots up ok and shows no problems with DOS.   When I run windows95 setup I get a crash with the following message
SUNWIN caused a general protection fault in module
KRNL386.exe at 0001:3CB9.
after clicking OK a number of times it locks up with the message:-
Standard Mode: bootfault in MS-DOS extender
it has further information on stack dump and rawfault frame register values etc.
Could anyone help me with possible causes.

I have tried a number of times, sometimes it goes further than others, but this is the most common crash.

Thanks in advance for your help.
John
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Question by:jcolles
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by:elc_music
ID: 1758763
It would be helpfull if you can please thel us which board, cpu, ram, etc.
and one more thing, did you UPGRADE an old system (486?) to this one?
or is this a fresh installation?
also, what version of 95 are you trying to install?

Elc.
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by:cgrey
ID: 1758764
Without more info can't give a very good answer. In addition toe elc_music's comment, what features are on the motherboard? AGP? onboard sound, nic, or video?

Have your checked your cmos settings and tried slowing down the memory access speeds? Try turning off/slowing down the read/write delays. Also check to make sure that your cache ram board is well seated in it's socket. Bad connections on cache ram can do WIERD things.
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j_powers earned 200 total points
ID: 1758765
When I worked on the Win95 support team, I would get people that had similar errors to this.

One big misconception with Win95, as opposed to 3.x, is that you can upgrade the mboard, and not have to worry about the OS. windows 95 and 98 is so dependant on drivers, it sets up memory and irqs for this - like getting all the ingrediants out for a big meal.

When you put in a new motherboard, Windows95 will bring out the same ingreediants, expecting to cook a Ham, but now you have a Turkey. It's a silly analogy, but bottom line is if you change motherboards, be prepared for problems if you do not reinstall the OS.

Here is the best Microsoft article that will help you out with this. Ultimatly, you may get past this error, but run into another. Nonetheless, try this, and see if it helps out.

Good Luck

Works: Troubleshooting Guide for General Protection Faults
Last reviewed: June 17, 1996
Article ID: Q99297
 
 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SUMMARY
The following information is a list of steps to troubleshoot general protection (GP) faults in Works for Windows.



MORE INFORMATION


File Descriptions
GDI.EXE: (Graphical Device Interface) Interface between Windows applications and graphical hardware devices (that is, video display cards and printers).

KRNL386.EXE: Handles memory management, loads and executes applications, and performs file input/output (I/O) through MS-DOS.

USER.EXE: Controls user input and output, including keyboard, mouse, sound driver, timer, and communication ports, and Windows management.



GP Fault Troubleshooting Steps
To troubleshoot GP faults, use the following steps:


Check for damaged files on your hard drive. If you are using MS-DOS version 6.2, exit from Windows and then type the following at the MS-DOS prompt and press ENTER:
scandisk

If you are using a version of MS-DOS earlier than version 6.2, exit from Windows, and then type the following at the MS-DOS prompt and press ENTER:

chkdsk /f

See your MS-DOS manual for details.


Make sure you have a VGA driver installed. To check this, choose Run from the File menu in Program Manager, and type:
setup

See your Windows manual for information about adding and changing drivers.


Do the following:
a. If you are using Windows 3.x, use the following startup parameters. See below (3b) for parameters to use for Windows for Workgroups 3.11.

Run Windows in standard mode by starting it with the WIN /S command at the MS-DOS command prompt. If standard mode is successful, try the following debug mode by typing the following at the MS-DOS command prompt:



          win /d:xvfs

       In this command, "x" excludes all of the adapter area from the
       range of memory that Windows scans to find unused space; "v"
       specifies that the ROM routine handles interrupts from the hard
       disk drive controller; "f" turns off 32-bit disk access; and "s"
       specifies that Windows should not use ROM address space between
       F000:0000 and 1 MB for a break point.

       If you are starting Windows in the above debug mode works, try
       using each parameter individually to narrow the testing scope
       (for example, use the win /d:x command). Add the following lines
       to the [386enh] section of the SYSTEM.INI file, depending on
       which parameter worked correctly:

        - If "x" worked: emmexclude=A000-FFFF
        - If "v" worked: VirtualHDIRQ=OFF
        - If "s" worked: SystemROMBreakpoint=OFF
        - If "f" worked: 32BitDiskAccess=FALSE

       The EMMEXCLUDE ("x") is a temporary solution. Check your hardware
       documentation to narrow the addressing.

    b. If you are using Windows for Workgroups 3.11, use the following
       startup parameters:

       Windows for Workgroups 3.11 does not support Windows in standard
       mode. Start Windows with the following parameters instead:

          win /d:tfc /n

       In this command, "t" loads Windows for Workgroups 3.11 without
       the enhanced mode drivers loaded from [386enh] section of the
       SYSTEM.INI file. Starting Windows for Workgroups with the WIN /D:T
       command is not a supported configuration. (It will not run virtual
       machines.) It is just used for troubleshooting virtual device driver
       (VxD)conflicts. You will notice that the 386 Enhanced icon is not
       available in Control Panel.

       NOTE: In Windows for Workgroups 3.11, MSD contains a new Windows
       button, which displays the path to the Windows SYSTEM
       subdirectories, and a list of external VxDs that are currently
       in use. VxDs in use are determined by reading the SYSTEM.INI
       file and then verifying that the file exists on the disk.

       Version and description information is displayed when available.

       The "f" parameter disables the 32 bit access; "c" disables the
       VFAT parameter; and "/n" loads Windows for Workroups 3.11 without
       any of the real or protected mode network components.



You should be using the following minimum configuration.
a. CONFIG.SYS, AUTOEXEC.BAT, and WIN.INI settings:



       CONFIG.SYS     AUTOEXEC.BAT     WIN.INI
       ----------     ------------     -------

       HIMEM.SYS      SET TEMP=        ;load=
       files=50       PATH             ;run=
       buffers=30     PROMPT
       CD-ROM Driver  MSCDEX

    b. Shell=PROGMAN.EXE

    c. Empty Startup Group



Your SYSTEM.INI settings should be:
keyboard.drv=keyboard.drv system.drv=system.drv mouse.drv=mouse.drv display.drv=vga.drv comm.drv=comm.drv


Make sure the Set Temp statement points to a logical and existing path.

Ensure the files are decompressed properly.

Re-expand possible corrupt files.

Install Windows on an uncompressed drive.

Check Available Memory (both Hard Drive and RAM).

Disable TrueType fonts.

Disable ATM and/or Facelift (or any Font Manager programs).

Disable your network (if you have one).

Make sure your working directory is in your AUTOEXEC.BAT path.

Verify that the WINDIR= line points to a logical Windows location
WINDIR=<DRIVE>:\<WINDOWSDIR>

where <DRIVE> is the drive in which your Windows directory resides, and <WINDOWSDIR> is your Windows directory. For example:

WINDIR=C:\WINDOWS


Remove your mouse driver.

Remove any unnecessary hardware devices from SYSTEM.INI.

Rename the MSWORKS.INI (Works 2.0) or the MSWORKS3.INI (Works 3.0) file and restart Works. Works 2.0 and 3.0 will rebuild the .INI file when you restart the application. However, even though Works 2.0 and 3.0 will rebuild the .INI during startup, it may not replace all necessary information, such as the Wizard references.

Use MSD to check the BIOS.

Make sure the A20 Handler is enabled.

Use the xcopy and fc /b command (Only for CD-ROM and multimedia issues) to ensure the integrity of files copied from your CD-ROM drive to your hard drive.
For more information about using the xcopy and fc /b command, please see the following article in the Home Multimedia section of the Microsoft Knowledge Base:

ARTICLE-ID: Q94653


       TITLE     : Using FC.EXE to Verify CD-ROM File System Drivers



As a LAST resort:
- Reinstall Windows in a NEW directory. - Reinstall Works for Windows in a NEW directory.

 

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Author Comment

by:jcolles
ID: 1758766
Many thanks for all your information.  Maybe I did not make it clear, but when I replaced the mother board I tried running with the old disk, but was not surprised when it would not run properly so I have now reformated the hard drive as it came from another machine and had a lot of rubbish on it and I am now installintg a clean disk with Win95 and it is the setup program which is craching.  All that is left of the old machine is the case, power supply and monitor!   The motherboard is new but would appear to be fairly anonymous, it has onboard sound and video and uses AMI BIOS, the cache memory is surface mounted and it has a 32MB SDRAM and a 120MHz Processor.   I had already disabled bios virus checking, and slowed down memory access and check CMOS setup for anything obviously wrong.  I have left shadow RAM setings on the default seting.
If this helps with any more suggestions I would be grateful, in the meantime I will examine your helpful gpf document
Regards John.

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by:j_powers
ID: 1758767
The answer above is still valid. The KRNL386.exe file controls all the 16 bit programs that have to run in Win95. Since you've reinstalled, then try this:

Do an f8 boot (press F8 on starting Windows 95)

Choose the option "command prompt only"

type in the following

cd windows {or the win directory}

attrib system.ini -r -s -a -h

ren system.ini system.bak

copy system.cb system.ini

reboot into windows.

the system.cb is a clean version of system.ini. IT has no 'real mode' drivers in it. See if you can get into windows without error. YOu may have no mouse, unless you add the following line:

[boot]

mouse.drv=mouse.drv

Also, you may want to rename your autoexec.bat and config.sys.

Good luck.


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Author Comment

by:jcolles
ID: 1758768
j_powers.
Thanks for the further info.   The problem is that I do not have a windows system as I cannot install it.   It is the installation program that crashes very early on, soon after I have given it the licence number.

After further playing with the system, I am getting an occasional crash in DOS so I will re-check all plugs and jumpers incase there is a hardware setup problem.
Regards  John.

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by:j_powers
ID: 1758769
Then you might want to check the settings in the BIOS.

How do you load up windows? Do you have to load DOS first, or can you just run the setup? This may be important here.

Let me know.
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by:elc_music
ID: 1758770
It also MAY be a CD-Rom drive problem.
It happend to me last week as I was building a new PC with the Cyber drive x32,
EVERY time I accessed the cd-rom, it took a looooooooooooooooong time,
but audio CD caused SYSTEM CRASH ! (EVERY TIME !)
but when I installed  a toshiba x10 CD-Rom, no crashes, no blue screen, smooth 95.
please CHECK !
also, check that your BOARD and CPU are compatible and jumperred corectly.
ELC.
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Author Comment

by:jcolles
ID: 1758771
j_powers
First of all I just did a sys to the hard disk and put on mscdex, set up the CDROM drivers in config.sys and autoexec.bat
Now I have done a full installation of DOS6.22 and it was when I had done this that I was spending time in DOS that crashes became evident.   I wil try to have another go through the motherboard jumpers this weekend and will report back.
Thanks once again
John.
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by:elc_music
ID: 1758772
It is also recomended to run somthing like NDIAGS from Norton Utilities or CHECKIT or somthing like it, this can give a fast look on youre board, mem, etc'.
GOOD LUCK.
ELC.

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by:j_powers
ID: 1758773
However, you are putting on DOS 6.22 to load win95. There are a host of programs that may be causing the problem. Do this instead:

1. On your boot disk, just add your CD rom drivers.

2. Boot on the clean computer. Sys the drive so you can boot to it. Do not have anything in the Autoexec.bat or Config.sys

3. create a Win95flat (md Win95flat)

4. copy all the files from  the Win95 directory.

5. Reboot to your c:\ drive.

You will not have a CD rom, but you will be able to run setup.  What this does is this lets you setup Win95 without any other programs loaded. Not even DOS 6.22 is loaded, or even CD ROM drivers.

If the Win95 CD is an upgraden CD, then during the setup, you will be asked to proove that you have an earlier version. Otherwise, do not load anything but Win 95.

Give this a try, and let me know what happens.
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by:Danymity
ID: 1758774
Lame answers...geesh what tech school did you folks attend, oh i get it your too busy readin dose dam dos for dummies books and windows for dummies books.  JColle and your probabley new to computers I take it.  Whenever you install a new mother board and basically try to boot up, your lucky you didnt damage your hd, circuitry, the list goes on.  Son take it from me not any of deese other meatballs especially da guy who uses the food analogy..You must start from scratch to avoid any erros or conflicts.  What you have done was (SHOCKED) your system, the next would be (BLOWN) your system but you stopped.  Be patient and start over..Your mother board through circuitry (if you've ever taken electical classes in college) has to communicate with all other devices on your sytem.  That way it reads it and knows what its capable of.  Another boot problem also could be the kind of ram you use, I take it edo, faste page mem, what?  Lastely for you guys who think you could just install  a mother board without setting the jumpers my god what the hell is wrong with you!  Thats why they come with manuals.  And dont try to put in a processor that overides you mother board jumper configs...man you could have what we techs call (a hiroshima boot up affect) when you turn on your pc while trying this.
(KA____POOOOOOOOOF!  you dig?
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by:elc_music
ID: 1758775
Oh Dynamity, I bet you finished DRAMA school didnt you?
I love your "Hiroshima boot up effect. " come on dont be so rude, the man just wana replace his mother bd. we ALL said check jumpers, bios, cpu, voltage etc'.
I must say there is a point in what you say, but dont be such over ...
ELC.
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by:Danymity
ID: 1758776
ELC Music.
Well I been told I am a little boysterous at times buy whad do you expect from a guy who lives in da heart of the big apple huh? Tell  you what next time your in town if yous ever come up here you get 20% off any pc part you  need plus cab discounts and you will need a cabby jus like a computer needs a hod drive!  You god it?
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by:elc_music
ID: 1758777
You know wah Danymity ?
I think I realy like yah.
Ba I live much ta far from ya.
just about over 3000 miles ya sea ?
the other side of da world yah?
bah anyway, if yah wanna E-mail me, let me know ok?
Thats gona be real fun!

and Jcolles,
When are you going to grade the answer you got? we are all waiting for yah.
ELC.

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Author Comment

by:jcolles
ID: 1758778
J_powers.
Many thanks for all your help.  My big problem now is lack of time, but I will be back on the job in about a weeks time.
Let me assure Danymity that I was working on computers in the days of Argos 600s, way before PCs were invented.  All jumpers on this motherboard were carefully checked with the manual in order to prevent Hiroshima effects.  Thank you all for your input, I will report back I've had another go at it.
Regards John.
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