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NT server on second Netware 4.11 segment not seen

Posted on 1998-10-26
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Last Modified: 2013-12-23
I have 2 network cards in a Novell 4.01 server.  I have at NT 4.0 server on one of the segments.  I am using Novell's  client and IPX to communicate within my Novell network.  I have TCPIP set up on all my NT workstation clients.  The NT clients on the same segment as the NT server can log into the server.  The clients on the second Novell segment can ping the NT server but cannot see the domain controller.  When I try to set up the workstation in the NT server domain, it gives the following error:

The domain controller for this domain cannot be located

I am not using WINS or LMHosts.  I do not have IPX loaded on the NT server, nor do I have any netware client loaded on the server.  How should I set up the NT workstations to get them to see the domain?
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Question by:tmwynne
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by:tmwynne
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Edited text of question
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by:mbreuker
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Without WINS/LMHosts, NT uses a TCP/IP broadcast (NetBT B-node)  to identify itself and allow clients to translate the NetBIOS name to an IP address. If the server and client are on separate segments, this broadcast traffic is likely not getting to the client.

The best way around this is to install WINS on the NT server. Then plug in the IP address of the server under the WINS heading of TCP/IP properties.

Implementing an LMHosts file also works but WINS is dynamic and will allow your workstation to see other NetBT enabled devices that show up in the other segment.
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by:tmwynne
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Your information did help me set up the workstation on the NT server, but it still would not let me log onto the network.  It says the domain controller for this domain could not be located.  In the event log, it gives the following information:

Event Id 5719-No Windows NT Domain Controller is available for domain Msdomain.  There are currently no logon servers available to sevice this logon. (Netllogon).

Event Id 8015-The browser has forced an election on network\device\NETBT_DC21X41 because Windows NT Server for domain master browser has started. (Browser).
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by:mbreuker
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Windows NT uses TCP ports 137 through 139 for NetBIOS communication over TCP/IP. I am not familiar with using a Novell server as a router but I would make sure that those ports are routing between segments properly. As long as they are and you have WINS enabled on the server and the WINS client configured on the workstation, the two should see each other just fine.

The error you described is basivally saying that the workstation could not see the Domain Master Browser (usually the PDC) so it was electing to become its own browser.

I would start toubleshooting the basics. That is double check the configurations of both machines, make sure your domain names are sonfigured correctly, make sure you can ping the workstation/server, etc. Check your WINS database on the server using WINS manager and see if the workstation's IP shows up there. If it does, then the workstation has at least some level of connectivity to the server and likely a small, overlooked configuration error is stopping full authentication.
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by:tmwynne
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I really need some input from someone that is using a Novell server as a router.  I have checked the information mbreuker suggested before.  I can ping the server but it gives time outs between pings.  I could attach to the server long enough for server manager to build the workstation.  I could not successfully log onto the domain.
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by:mbreuker
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I suggest you post a copy of this question under the Novell Networking section as well. Stress the fact that you get time-outs between pings, which indicate that this is not necessarily a MS networking problem, but a general network communication problem using Novell as a router.
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by:trd
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Dear tmwynne,

The info provided is not clear at all.
1- U said u r using Novell client and IPX to logon to the Netware server! Where is this Novell client and IPX installed?
2- R U using two different IP networks, i.e. is it a different IP network on each segment or is it on the same network?
3- In your NT W/S configuration, what is the default gateway defined there?
4- Same question applies for the NT server?
5- Please give me the exact IP addressses that u rusing for the:
    * Netware first and second NIC.
    * Subnet mask for the same.
    * Ip addresses of the NT server, one client on the other segment

Regards

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by:tmwynne
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1) I have the Intranetware client for NT loaded on my NT clients.
I do not have any Novell client loaded on my NT server.  IPX and TCPIP protocols are loaded on all my NT clients.  Only TCPIP is
loaded on my NT server.
2)  We only have one IP network - two segments, one network.
The same IP network is being used for both the Novell and NT servers.
3)  My IP settings for my two network cards in the Novell server are as follows:

First segment:  IP 207.55.139.80
Second segment:  IP 207.55.139.99

Those NT clients on the first segment are being set up as follows:

IP address:  207.55.139.(the IP assigned to that client)
Subnet mask:  255.255.255.224
Default gateway:  207.55.139.80

Those NT clients on the second segment are being set up as follows:

IP address:  207.55.139.( the IP address assigned to that client)
Subnet mask:  255.255.255.224
Default gateway:  207.55.139.99

The NT server has the IP address as follows:

IP address:  207.55.139.126
Subnet mask: 255.255.255.224
Default gateway:  207.55.139.99

As I said earlier, it communicates fine with clients on the same segment.  Novell communicates fine on both segments.

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by:hnf
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How about posting startup and autoexec?

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trd earned 100 total points
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Dear tmwynne,

You are using class C IP Addresses (207.55.139.0) with a 3-bit subnet mask (255.255.255.224) that means you can have eight subnets and in any one subnet you can define upto 30 hosts only.

Taking into consideration the information you provided to me, your assumption of having one IP network is not proper, let me tell you why:

1- Having the first NIC address on the novell server as 207.55.139.80 with mask 255.255.255.224, gives you a network address of 207.55.139.64. This means you can have host addresses starting from 207.55.139.65 to 207.55.139.94 and any address outside this range will be considered as a different network.

2- The same thing applies for the second NIC on the novell server, where the NIC IP address is 207.55.139.99 and the network address there is 207.55.139.96. This means you can have host addresses from 207.55.139.97 to 207.55.139.126, and any thing beyond this is a different network.

3- Therefore, your two NIC's on the Novell server are on two different subnets, i.e. two different networks, although you are using the same mask. This explains why you were able to ping the NT server from the clients on the other side but you were not able to logon to it, because NETBIOS name resolution cannot be performed on two different IP networks without defining WINS, or LMHOSTS or an equivelent service.

To solve your problem, you have two options:
Option 1: (easy)

If your total number of clients and servers on both segments is less than 30, then choose one subnet from the ones I mentioned above and change the IP addresses accordingly, i.e. EITHER choose the range of (207.55.139.65) to (207.55.139.94) or (207.55.139.97) to (207.55.139.126). [do not forget the subnet mask 255.255.255.224 in both the cases].
Then enable IP forwarding on your novell server, you can do that by loading INETCFG on the console and go to TCP/IP settings and set it there.

Or, Option II:
Keeping the addresses as they are now, you have to enable MPR on the novell server, configure it as a router, and entering the proper routing tables, enable IP forwarding as well. [All of this can be configured using INETCFG also].
Then on Both the NT clients and Server configure LMHOSTS file to reflect the addresses of the servers as following:

*Edit the LMHOSTS file under winnt\system32\drivers\etc
*Enter the following lines at the end of the file:
207.55.139.xxx   NTservername  #PRE   #DOM:yourdomainname
207.55.139.xxx   NovellServername
207.55.139.xxx   NTclient1(on the non NT segment)
207.55.139.xxx   NTclient2 ("   "   "  "  ")...etc
*save the file and copy it to the all the NT machines (under the same directory mentioned above)

[You have to replace the xxx, Ntservername, yourdomainname, novellservername and NTclientnames with real values].
Also you can use a WINS server instead of LMHOSTS.

Select the option that suits you best. If you need more help, please let me know. I will be glad to give you more details.
TRD
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