installing win95 and setup does not start

Edited text of question

Adjusted points to 50

Adjusted points to 100

Try copying the contents of the Win95 directory to your Hard Drive. Then run setup from there and see if will allow you to run it properly.

Craig

I will add my voice to Craig's.  His idea is excellent, hope you have the disk space for it.

RoseFire

A scratch on the backside (printed side) of the CD can corrupt the data. Can you access the other files on the CD?

It sounds to me also like your CD might be bad.  Any chance you could get a hold of another one and then try to load?

You probably know all this but I will say it just in case.  If the data is corrupted on your CD, you should get errors when you try to copy it to the hard drive.  If that happens, clean the disk using distilled water and a soft cotton cloth (=clean T-shirt).  You may be able to clean it without the water if it just has dirt or smudges.  Use radial motion and not circular.

If copying the data to the hard drive works and the CD-ROM drive works for other purposes,  then the CD is probably not bad.

At this point, we need to hear back from you.

RoseFire

I am capable of copying everything in the cd to the hard drive, I have tried all of those ideas you have stated.

its exact error is that the packed file is corrupt.  I just used this same cd on another computer no problem.

I suggest you go to download.com and search for the file cddiag.exe.  Dowload it and run it on  your CD using the CD-ROM.  It is a diagnostic utility that will test the drive and the disk.

Rosefire

I went to download.com and shareware.com and could not find the file

Try this (rather ugly) url

http://download.com/PC/Result/TitleDetail/0,4,0-54495,1000.html?st.dl.results.list.tdtl

the program is called CD-R diagnostic 1.2.2.  It is in utilities

RoseFire

P.S. I highly recommend cut and paste.

I got this program, but what is the relevence, I have to win95 osr2, that I know for a fact work because I used one an hour ago on another computer and their was no problem.  I copied the files onto the harddrive, no problem, when I run setup it comes back with packed file corrupt, I format the hard drive and start from scratch, I search for viruses, nothing, I am hitting

I got this program, but what is the relevence, I have to win95 osr2, that I know for a fact work because I used one an hour ago on another computer and their was no problem.  I copied the files onto the harddrive, no problem, when I run setup it comes back with packed file corrupt, I format the hard drive and start from scratch, I search for viruses, nothing, I am hitting

I meant to say getting no where, but thank you rosefire, for your help

Adjusted points to 120

No problem.  The idea is that if the disk and CD-ROM work fine in the diagnostic, then you can rule out both as the source of the problem.  You actually already ruled out the CD, but it could be the combination (sometimes unbalance CDs become a  problem to read).

Aside from that.  Are you running setup from a boot floppy or from windows?  I am wondering if the setup program is getting some files from the wrong location and thinks it is installing without a complete set of files.

Try booting from a DOS disk and going to the CD-ROM (or the directory where you copied the files to the disk).  and typing "setup" (if this is now what you have been doing anyway).

I would still be interested to see if the diagnostic passes on the CD-ROM too.  

RoseFire

what I did was format the hard drive, and made it a system disk, then installed the cd-rom drivers and then proceeded to run setup, and then it gave me the packed file is corrupt, I then copied everything to the harddrive from the win95 directory on the win95 cd, on the diagnostic, It thinks it is an audio cd.

the diagnostic software has an error that says error reading sector 16843044 from 0:1 status=4,sense 05 21 00

I tried several different types of cds but it seems to give me the same sort of problems involved in the analysis

I think you may have something amiss with your CD-ROM drivers since  the CD is being mistaken for audio by the diagnostic program.  Do you have any DOS drivers loaded in config.sys or autoexec.bat?  Please post them here if you would.  Also, is the CD-ROM installed as a master or slave device.  If it is installed as a master it may be that windows is confused and thinks that the CD-ROM is a bootable device.  If it is installed as a master, you should change it to slave or at least go into our sustem SETUP and change the BIOS settings to CD-ROM instead of autodetect.

RoseFire

If you want an explanation of master and slave IDE devices let me know.  

RoseFire

it is set to master, and what do you mean by dos drivers, I will post a copy of both autoexec.bat, and config.sys

here is the autoexec.bat

EM - BY WINDOWS SETUP - LH C:\WINDOW\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:NCI000  /V
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
PATH=C:\WINDOW;C:\WINDOW\COMMAND;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\C700\BIN
SET LIB=C:\C700\LIB;C:\C700\MFC\LIB
SET INCLUDE=C:\C700\INCLUDE;C:\C700\MFC\INCLUDE
SET HELPFILES=C:\C700\HELP\*.HLP
SET INIT=C:\C700\INIT



REM - BY WINDOWS SETUP - LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:NCI000  /V


C:\WINDOW\SYSTEM\RWADOS95
C:\WINDOW\SYSTEM\SETWAPNP  /CLR
REM THE FOLLOWING LINE ADDED BY INOCULAN ANTIVIRUS.
C:\PROGRA~1\CHEYENNE\ANTIVI~1\EXAMINE.EXE /X

here is the config.sys

DOS = HIGH, UMB
SHELL = C:\COMMAND.COM C:\ /p /e:1024
device=C:\WINDOW\himem.sys

DEVICEHIGH=C:\CDROM\IDE-CD.SYS /D:NCI000

Windows does not even require an autoexec.bat or config.sys be present on the hard drive.  If you install windows over DOS windows usually leaves the device drivers and installs over them.   It is far better to let windows use its own native drivers.   Two of the common  DOS device drivers are hymem.sys, ansi.sys.

 If you do a clean install without a previous version of DOS or windows you get a more stable setup. This can be done even from the "upgrade" version of windows so long as you have the old CD or floppy available when setup asks where it can find the old version.

The CD-ROM driver mscdex.exe is the DOS device driver I am most interested in at this point.

Are you running SCSI hard disks?
Is the CD-ROM on the primary or is it on the secondary IDE controller?

RoseFire

Windows does not even require an autoexec.bat or config.sys be present on the hard drive.  If you install windows over DOS windows usually leaves the device drivers and installs over them.   It is far better to let windows use its own native drivers.   Two of the common  DOS device drivers are hymem.sys, ansi.sys.

 If you do a clean install without a previous version of DOS or windows you get a more stable setup. This can be done even from the "upgrade" version of windows so long as you have the old CD or floppy available when setup asks where it can find the old version.

The CD-ROM driver mscdex.exe is the DOS device driver I am most interested in at this point.

Are you running SCSI hard disks?
Is the CD-ROM on the primary or is it on the secondary IDE controller?

RoseFire

This line is putting in a 16-bit DOS device driver for your CD-ROM.

DEVICEHIGH=C:\CDROM\IDE-CD.SYS /D:NCI000

Try commenting out this line and see if windows still finds the CD-ROM drive.

RoseFire

I am not running a scsi hard disk, and I am using the cd-rom on the secondary ide controller.  I used a clean start with windows startup disk that formated that I used to format the hard drive, which is windows dos.

but by doing this I will lose use of the cd-rom, which will then cause loss of the cd-rom which I will then not be able to access the win95 cd-rom

by the way, I made a mistake, the computer with the problem has no os on it, I was trying to put one on it.

I will get back to you tomorrow on this problem, but thank you for your help so far.

What you need to do then is make/get  a boot floppy that has that driver on it and then try to install on the bare drive after booting from the floppy.  That way the driver is not needed to access the CD-ROM drive.

RoseFire

OK, talk to you later.  

Keep in mind that the problem can still be with the CD-ROM as IDE master.  Try setting the BIOS to CD-ROM if it is on autodetect.

If the config.sys and autoexec.bat you posted were from the boot floppy and not the hard drive then the situation is different than if they were from the hard drive you are installing onto. I need to know if you booted from the hard drive or the floppy when attempting to do the install. The preferred method is to boot from the floppy and not have the 16-bit drivers on the hard drive when you install.

Also, are you sure the CD-ROM driver loaded is for the CD-ROM you are using?

RoseFire

Noticed one line remarked out by installation efforts, perhaps running INOCULAN is conflicting, just a thought.
This was the line from Ousama's Autoexec file.

REM THE FOLLOWING LINE ADDED BY INOCULAN ANTIVIRUS.

asstaec, we think alike again.  I was going to have him comment out one suspect line at a time. Problem now is I  am not sure if the config.sys and autoexec.bat files are from the hard drive or the floppy.  If ousama is installing to a bare drive, where did these two files come from?  If these are from the hard drive, that may explain a lot.  He is installing over DOS  and it very well could be that the antivirus program is stopping the install because it freaks when setup accesses the system areas of the disk.

He had to leave rather suddenly last night, but I think he has enough ideas to play around with this for awhile.

RoseFire

Since you said that the computer you were trying to install to has no OS on it, I believe that after formatting the drive to do a clean installation on it, you skipped the next step which would have been to (with the startup disk in the floppy drive) at the A:\prompt  type in SYS C:  in order to get some system files on your drive to begin with.  Then try to do the setup again.

Toni Hackler

Dually, please refrain from posting guesses as answers.  The step you mention is not required in the Windows 95 or 98 installation process.

RoseFire

Excuse me, but if he formatted his drive, and then tried to run setup without putting the system on it, he wouldn't get far.  By your own comments, he was trying to install to a bare drive, and you couldn't tell if the autoexec.bat and config.sys files he was referring to were actually on the floppy.  My answer stands.

Toni Hackler

all right, the bare hard drive has command.com on it, I created a boot disk that would boot up and run the cd-rom, here is a copy of the autoexe.bat:

MSCDEX /D:MSCD001


here is a copy of config.sys:

DEVICE=HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=a:\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:MSCD001

when I go to the cd-rom with win95 osr2 and type in setup it comes back with the error packed file corrupt

In looking at the autoexec.bat and config.sys files you posted earlier, it appears that the config.sys file has the following line
DEVICEHIGH=C:\CDROM\IDE_CD.SYS /D:NCI000  However, the bootdisk says

A:\VIDE_CDD.SYS /D:MSCD001

They don't even resemble each other so, which one is the correct one?  Do you actually have a directory under C: that is called CDROM and if you do what cdrom file is actually in there?

As for the autoexec.bat file that you posted earlier, there isn't any mention of the cdrom there.  Is the MSCDEX file actually copied to the harddrive and a path established to load it?

TONI HACKLER

I this is a different one, because I had thought rosefire wanted the autoexec.bat and config.sys off the computer that I ran this cd diagnostic.  This files are from the computer that is giving me the problem.

You need to establish an autoexec.bat and a config.sys file on your harddrive and actually copy the mscdex.exe file and the VIDE_CDD.SYS files also to the harddrive.  Then you have to edit the autoexec.bat and config.sys files on the harddrive to actually point to where the files are located in order to run the cdrom.  Since you already have a config.sys file on your floppy, copy it to the C: and then edit that copy to say:

DEVICE=C:\VIDE_CDD.SYS /D:MSCD001

Then you need to create an autoexec.bat file to copy to the harddrive also and it doesn't appear that you have one on your floppy.  Since you have a computer available to you, make a copy of the autoexec.bat file of the computer you are on now onto the floppy.  Then open that copy on the floppy and erase everything on it using notepad.  Then type in A:\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001  on it and save it.  

Bring it back to the computer you are working on and copy it from the floppy to the harddrive.  Open the copy you just put on the harddrive and edit it to read C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001

Now in C:  make a directory called DOS and copy the MSCDEX.EXE file you have on the floppy to the DOS directory you just made.

If you don't have a copy of the MSCDEX.EXE file on the floppy, put one there but use the version that is in the Windows folder from the computer that you are on right now since it will be a newer version.

After you reboot, you should have access to the cdrom now without the floppy.  None of this is necessary if you have an actual installation disk for your cdrom.  You can just install it at the A: and it will load your drivers in dos for you.

Toni

I did it this way as you have proposed but it did not work and rose fire proposed that it been done on a floppy, but neither method has worked.  

The problem is not with starting of the computer with no os. it is when I go to the win95 cdrom and try to run setup and it comes back with this error that the packed file is corrupt

ousama, we have a little confusion.  My understanding from what you said is that right now you have a formatted drive with nothing on it (except maybe  command.com which is fine).  You have a boot disk with the driver for your CD-ROM on the boot disk.  What you are trying  to do is boot from the boot disk and install to the bare drive.  What is happening is that you get the corrupt packet message, pretty much right away.

Is this the picture at this point in time?

RoseFire

The second thing you tried was copying the contents of the CD-ROM to the hard disk and installing from there.   The copy went fine.   The install did not work and you got the same corrupt packet error message.  I assume when you did this you also booted from the floppy drive.  

We subsequently ran a test on the CD-ROM.  At the time I believed the test was done using the CD-ROM of the system you were trying to install onto. My impression now is that you actually ran the test on the CD-ROM disk, but you were not using the computer you currently want to install onto.  The system you are trying to install onto is  currently not running any operating system and is bootable only from the floppy drive.

Is this right?

RoseFire

that is correct rosefire, First i formated the hard drive it has a command.com, second I created a boot disk with the what is needed so that I can initiate the cd-rom, and then ran setup from the win95 cd, and the setup program does not initiate and it comes back with the error that the packed file is corrupt

Adjusted points to 150

I want to establish some more facts.  
1.  This system used to work until you formatted it.
2.  The CD-ROM driver VIDE_CDD.SYS is a driver that came with your CD-ROM drive and not another CD-ROM drive.
3.  There is no config.sys or autoexec.bat file on the destination hard drive.

Are these all accurate?  If not please explain.

RoseFire

this computer is brand new. I built it from new parts, the cd-rom driver is for this cd-rom, there is no config.sys or autoexec.bat on the destanation harddrive.  The cd-rom is on the second ide controller, and is set to master. it works fine with the boot disk, the only problem arises when I try to run setup from the win95 cd, it says packed file is corrupt, it never starts win95 setup, I tried a win98 cd, same problem.  

The only thing that I am beginning to suspect as to be causing the problem is some thing in the hard ware.  I believe it might be in the bios.

Ah, we have some new information.  

Then lets make sure your BIOS is set up correctly.  It is still obvious that the CD-ROM is not being read correctly.  All the evidence says that there is a problem there.  

1. Are the BIOS IDE controller settings set up for Autodetect on the CD-ROM and hard drive?
2. Is there a slave device on the first IDE controller.

Post any settings here that you are unsure of.

RoseFire

they are setup for autodetect on both.  Also some sort of smart drive, and virus chip away. which I disabled both.

Good, where did you boot disk come from?

RoseFire

I changed the setting from auto to user defined on the hard drive, and set the secondary master to cdrom.  

I told win95 on another computer to make me a boot disk.

Do you have access to a machine that can make you a windows 98 boot disk?

I am thinking that the CD-ROM driver on the boot disk may  not be working with your CD-ROM correctly.  Window 98 makes the boot disk differently.

RoseFire

I then added the cd-rom drivers to the boot disk so that it can start the cd-rom, I also tried making the new hard drive have a the cd-rom drivers installed to it directly with its own config.sys and autoexec.bat, but still no progress in installing win95

but that is the cd-rom drivers for that particular cd-rom

and I do not have a machine with win98, because I did not like it that much so I stuck with win95, I have done this on several other machines but this is the first time I have ever had this problem.

Did the CD-ROM drive in your PC come with a disk that has drivers on it you can copy or extract and use?  

Also, what was the exact wording of the error message.  I am looking for it in the microsoft knowledge database.

RoseFire

Did the CD-ROM drive in your PC come with a disk that has drivers on it you can copy or extract and use?  

Also, what was the exact wording of the error message.  I am looking for it in the microsoft knowledge database.

RoseFire

I went to the homepage of the manufacturer and downloaded a new updated version of the driver, and it worked but a new problem has surfaced.  it starts scandisk and then it blanks the screen.

Well, that is progress!  We solved the initial problem.  Do you want help with this one?  I'm willing to help if you have the time and energy.

RoseFire

Yes I would like your help again.  I do have the time and energy.  By the way thankyour for your help on the initial problem

Ok, lets start by getting a description of your system.  What devices, etc. do you have in the target system?

Fujitsu 3.4 gig harddrive, amd k6-2 300, 56k modem, video soundcard and motherboard(was fooled into this by company who sold they did not tell me it was all in one combo), nec cdrom, and 32mb of sdram.

Since this is a new untested system, I think we want to simplify it as much as possible. Remove all but the boards that are absolutly needed (From your list I think this is only the modem).  In your system BIOS disable all devices you do not need now.  This includes unused COM ports, LPT ports, acceleration options, etc.  Choose safe settings, unaccelerated settings,  and slow settings where possible.   Then try getting scandisk to run again.  

RoseFire

I will try this

I disabled the serial port and the parallel ports and removed the modem, and disabled the soundcard.  it ran scan disk and then it started setup and it that crashed and told me to ignore or close.  I tried ignore but it did not do any thing I then hit close and gave me another error:

Application Error winsetup caused a General Protection fault in module winsetup.bin at 0006:1100.

it then gave me another error:

Application Error winsetup caused a General Protection fault in module user.exe at 000:40B6

it then left setup and gave me this message:

Standard Mode: Bad Fault in Ms-dos Extender

Fault:000D Stack Dump: 0000 0000 0070

Raw Fault frame: EC=0000 IP-5EF7 CS=0367 FL=3087 SP=FFEE SS=0267

it then locks up and I have to reset.

Wow, that was a mouthful. Good information!

I think at this point you have shown that the problem is a hardware problem of some kind.  Still, we are using windows.  What I would like to know at this point is if the system can run reliably in a DOS-only environment.  This will simplify the problem further.  Do you have DOS install disks.  Once DOS is installed, we can try running DOS diagnostics to see if the problem can be resolved.  If DOS runs reliably we can learn a lot. I suspect it will not.  A good DOS diagnostic is Checkit, if you can download a trial version or another diagnostic program that would be helpful.  Maybe you have something already.

Right now I am thinking that you may  have a problem with your system memory, but we can test this when if we can get DOS to run. Really, it could still be a bad board.  Any one of them. In the mean time, it would be a good idea if you reviewed the memory requirements for your system and verified that the memory you have installed is correct per the specifications.  If you have other memory and the motherboard supports it, you could try different memory.

RoseFire

well I do not have any dos disks, but is any sort of diagnostic program capable of running that does not require dos shell. I know the memory is 32mb of sdram

Well, I don't know of a diagnostic you can run without DOS or windows.  You do have a boot disk, however, so how about trying to get a DOS diagnostic program on your hard drive and running it after booting from the floppy drive.  Do you have any DOS diagnostic programs?

There are different types of SDRAM and different speeds.  I have not played around with systems with SDRAM yet (I am still at 266MHz EDO, a whole YEAR old!), so IF ANYONE HAS ANY SUGGESTIONS, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CHIME IN!!!! The motherboard documentation should have SDRAM manufacturers and speeds listed for the SDRAM that will work on the motherboard.  Do you have any information on this? We are out of my area of experience with SDRAM.

RoseFire

i went to this checkit company and they do not seem to have some sort of free evaluation copy of this software.

I tried this microsoft diagnostic but it is so old that it identified the processor as a 486, any suggestions.

I am beginning to believe it has something to do with this all in wonder motherboard that I have.

Try going to microsoft.com and downloading the program msd.exe.  It is a pretty poor diagnostic, but maybe we can get some useful information from it.  I can also email it to you or ICQ it to you if you wish.

RoseFire

I have checked the book with the motherboard and have not found any type of setting, I have played with a possible number of combinations but no luck

email it to me at abushagu@airnet.net

I downloaded MSD.zip from shareware.com, I tried it out but It gave me some wierd info like the harddrive was smaller, due to the fat16 limitation of 2.0 gig, and 486 processor

I suggest that you start a new question thread with the current problem.  This one is getting really long.  I am afraid I have to go, my girlfriend is getting impatient with me ;-)  Would it be ok with you if I post the solution(answer) to the original problem, and you put the current problem out as a new question.  You should have 50-60 points or more, remaining.  If you would rather continue on this thread that is fine too. I will be back online in the morning about 9-10 hours from now and I can help you further then.

What would you like to do?

RoseFire

I am going to get back to you tomorrow on this issue, but thankyou for all of your help.

that is is a good idea i will let you do that and tomorrow it is.