Win 95 setup crashes in the beginning

Edited text of question

Is this a new installation, or an upgrade?

Are you installing from a CD?

To save time in solving your problem, it will be helpful to know more about your computer.
Please list the components of your system that might apply.
(Motherboard, CPU, RAM, Hard Drive(s), CD-ROM, Soundcard, etc.)

Please post your autoexec.bat & config.sys files also.

Regards,
Ralph

Please post the info that Rmarotta asked for and could you tell me if the machine was working prior to installation of win95 or have you just built the machine?

A few things to try if it is a new build.
Set bios to defaults.
make sure the cpu fan is running.


netmage

In following the threads from the last post regarding the cdrom problem, I have to wonder if the harddrive didn't have FAT32 initiated on it from an older W98 installation that you didn't care for.  If you are now trying to install W95 on it without having used fdisk first, I don't know if you would have problems trying to install a new OS.  I realize that W95B (or C) also has FAT32 but I am not sure if this version would be compatible with what W98 uses.  I do know that at installation of W98, it asks you if you want to install large disk support and warns you that if you choose yes, it will be impossible to load another OS over it.  This might be part or all of your problem if you used this drive for the W98 install that you did away with.

Toni Hackler

What type of BIOS do you have?
Try to disable the ANTI VIRUS GUARD in the bios.

ALL, here is some background I know about this problem:

This problem is one that was found after getting past another one that occured earlier in the install procedure for the system (CD-ROM drive was unreadable because wrong drivers were on the boot disk which was made on another system).  Ousama is comfortable with computers and knows his way around.  He can easily complete pretty complex directions without step by step detail.

BACKGROUND: The problem is occuring while trying to install Windows 95  to a brand new home-built system. Setup  has not gotten past the early parts ot the installation so windows is not yet on the disk. The DOS "SYS C:" command has been run from another windows installation's boot disk and that is all the hard disk has on it at this point in time.  The installation is being done from a floppy disk created by this same (other)  windows 95 system.  After the CD-ROM access problem was solved (wrong drivers were being used),  the setup screen would go black and system froze while running SCANDISK.  The next thing that was done was to remove all unneeded cards, disable all unneeded BIOS options.  IDE controller for the CD-ROM and hard disk is set to AUTODETECT.  The hard drive is the primary master and the CD-ROM is secondary master.

SYSTEM COMPONENTS: Fujitsu 3.4 gig harddrive, amd k6-2 300, 56k modem, video soundcard and motherboard combo. nec cdrom, and 32mb of sdram.

RoseFire

Ousama, I think we need to be sure that your boot disk you are using has no other problem drivers or programs on itit.  Config.sys and autoexec.bat should have the following.

config.sys
------------
SHELL = a:\COMMAND.COM C:\ /p /e:1024
device= a:\himem.sys
device= <the new driver you downloaded>.sys /D:MSCD001

autoexec.bat
----------------
MSCDEX /D:MSCD001

If the disk you are using has any other stuff on it you should comment it out.  Especailly virus software, programs from your other system, and drivers from your other system.

RoseFire

ousama,
I just returned from reading your other thread. (https://www.experts-exchange.com/Q.10109600)
Here are a few thoughts & suggestions for you:

I don't think the CDROM driver is, or was the issue here.
This is an ATAPI-compliant drive, and almost any IDE driver will configure that drive for use in Dos.
My reasoning is due to the fact that you were able to successfully copy the contents of the Win95 directory from the CDROM to the hard drive.
There was a lot of confusion at the other question, so I'll start over.  Follow these steps, and you'll get Windows installed:

1)  The autoexec.bat & config.sys files for installing Win95 can be extremely simple in this case.  Only one statement in autoexec.bat and two statements in config.sys are needed.  Just create a bootable floppy with these startup files:

AUTOEXEC.BAT =
          MSCDEX>EXE /D:MSCD001

CONFIG.SYS =
     DEVICE=HIMEM.SYS
     DEVICE=(new driver downloaded from manufacturer)/D:MSCD001

2) Copy the following files to the boot floppy from the machine used to create it:
     MSCDEX.EXE
     HIMEM.SYS
     FORMAT.COM
    *The CD-ROM driver file from it's manufacturer.*

3) Start the computer and enter your CMOS setup utility.
Select default settings.
Select your floppy drive type.
Set hard drive type to auto-detect.

4) Boot from the floppy and watch the screen.  You should see the driver recognize the CD-ROM followed by MSCDEX.EXE assigning it a drive letter.
Test that the CD-ROM is accessible by typing the following command at the A:\> prompt:
     DIR D:\ /S

5) Format the hard drive.
     FORMAT C:   (No need to transfer a system to it.)

6) Create a \Win95 directory on the hard drive.
Copy contents of D:\Win95 to the new directory.

Finally, run C:\SETUP.EXE

Let me know how it goes.
Regards,
Ralph

Omissions in my answer:

In (4) be sure you have a disc in the CD-ROM drive.

Finally, the command should be:
     C:\Win95\SETUP.EXE

Good luck,
Ralph

The procedure Ralph is outlining does virtually the same thing as what I was suggesting above except he builds the boot disk from scratch instead of modifying the existing one.  It should produce a good usable boot disk unless the problem is a more deep seated one such as incompatible memory or a hardware poblem.

Ralph, in the other thread ousama made his hard drive bootable by doing "sys c:" creating a minimal config.sys and autoexec.bat and moving the minimal set of files to it -- almost exactly what you prescribe for this problem except on the hard drive and using the incompatible CD-ROM driver.  This did not solve the corrupt setup packet problem. So the original problem would have been solved at that point if the only problem was what you suggest.

RoseFire

the cd rom driver was the original problem, when the new driver was installed it worked fine and started setup and then it stopped at scandisk.  rosefire then told me to disable the serial and parallel ports, when that was done scandisk ran and setup started and came back with these problems.  I then decided to take this hard drive to another computer and load win95 to and bring it back to the machine, it loaded no problem and booted up, upon return to the original machine it did not work.

I think one possible solution that I am going to do is buy a new motherboard with separate sound card and video card and see if that works.

Rosefire,
Examine the other thread carefully and you will find, originally, the CD-ROM driver wasn't loading correctly.
After five hours and twenty-one posts, the defective startup files were finally revealed. (10:00PM thursday)

ousama,
You can reject my answer, but if you follow the directions EXACTLY as I described, you will install Windows!

Please try it.

I see a number of errors compounding here.  I'm not going to type a whole list.
You can continue to go chasing around for more utility or diagnostic programs but you'll end up with another marathon thread.
If the motherboard or memory is not defective and you use only the floppy as I recommended, it WILL install Windows.
Regards,
Ralph

Ousama, you can't just take a Windows 95 installation from one computer to another.  The drivers don't get set up right.  Windows setup installs with a particular set of hardware it detects and then installs the appropriate drivers.  If the two systems are not identical, it is likely to fail.

If you follow Raph's procedure, we will know if there were any other problems with the install disks you were using (and  Ralph be satisfied it was done correctly).  I suggest you try his procedure since it is the logical next step. It accomplishes exactly what I was suggestion in my post and gives us known-good boot disks.   If that procedure still does not work, then we can start to suspect the hardware or other possibilities.

RoseFire

RoseFire

I will try ralph procedure

Sorry for the typos, I am trying to use the computer and watch a rather good movie at the same time.  Experts-Exhange makes an excellent filler for commertial breaks. ;-)

RoseFire

Here is the contents of the boot disk according to ralphs directions

Autoexec.bat:

MSCDEX /D:MSCD001

Config.sys:

DEVICE=HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=a:\nec_ide.SYS /D:MSCD001

Ousama, there is a simple  typo in the following line in Ralph's procedure.  In autoexec.bat

MSCDEX>EXE /D:MSCD001

Shoud read

MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001

RoseFire

That looks right (Ralph, comments?). I see you noticed the typo before I finished typing my not about the typo.  

RoseFire

itried ralphs idea but it did not work it gave me those errors i am listing in the question

Bummer.  OK, my inlcination at this point is to try running some DOS diagnostics on your sysem.  The disk formatted ok from your boot disk and you have run scandisk on it to completion (probably multiple times by now).  The disk CD-ROM and IDE controller appear to be ok so far.  Nonetheless, in keeping with the philosophy of using the minimum possible hardware I suggest you remove the CD-ROM drive and disable the secondary IDE controller in your BIOS.  Window 95 is installed on your hard drive so it should not need the CD-ROM for now.

Did the copy of Microsoft diagnostics I sent you work better than the one you found at Download.com?  It is not a great diagnostic program but it can prove useful (DOES ANYONE HAVE A SUGGESTION FOR A GOOD DOS-BASED DIAGNOSTIC TOOL?)

Also, how did you choose the SRAM for your system?

RoseFire

OK, I found that BCM Diagnostics available at Download.com under utilities has a stand-alone DOS diagostic program included in it.  Get a copy of it from Download.com and unzip it in another system. Then take the file DOSDIAG.EXE and copy it to your new system.  Type dosdiag /? for instructions.

BCM Diagnostics has it at the URL
http://download.com/PC/Result/TitleDetail/0,4,0-43036,1000.html?st.dl.sub78.list.tdtl

RoseFire

I have to step out for a little while, I while try your idea when I get back and will inform you of the progress.

ousama,
Sorry about the typo.  (Thank you Rosefire!)
The response in your last comment is very vague.

>  "itried ralphs idea but it did not work it gave me those errors i am listing in the question"

Where did it fail?  
I see a new CD-ROM driver in the config.sys file you have posted.
Is that "the new one from the manufacturer"?
I think not.
You can check NEC's info about their CD-ROMs here, but I don't think you'll find that driver listed:

ftp://ftp.nectech.com/pub/peripherals/cd-rom/cdrom.txt

When you created the floppy as I explained, did you boot with it and test if Dos could access the CD-ROM? (DIR D:\ /S)

If that worked, then it should have been possible to copy the \Win95 directory to the newly-formatted hard drive.

If setup started the install, exactly where did the error occur?

Ralph

The error occurred after scandisk and inside of copy files needed for the rest of setup, I followed your instructions to the letter, I checked the cdrom and it read it, and I copied the files to the c:\win95 directory and then ran setup, it ran through scandisk and than at went into win95 setup and copying files it stopped and gave me the errors that I listed in the question

Rosefire, I ran the windows installation again this time with out the cd-rom connected it came back with an error in the part where it gets the computer ready for the installation wizard, instead of the error I posted earlier, this time it said that it could not decompress the cab file

You didn't comment on the CD-ROM driver......
Did you reset BIOS to defaults?
That may be important for memory timing issues.
Also disable any BIOS anti-virus utility.
If that's all okay, either try to substitute your memory, or at least try to re-locate it into a different socket.
Try the install again and let me know what you find.
Ralph

I checked Nec and that is the nec_ide.sys file, i did set the bios setting to default, and I disabled the antivirus

I have the memory on dimm bank 1 of 2

rosefire, I ran the BCM, and when I tested the memory it found a problem with random memory tests.

rosefire, I also noticed something interesting I noticed the bios date is 7/15/95, is that not rather old, maybe the bios is not prepared to handle sdram, do you know how I can update this bios to a newer version, the bios manufacturer is American Megatrends.

The BIOS date can't possibly be right.  In 1995 the architecture was totally different for the PCs of that time.  Are you sure it is not just a date that has not been initialized usint the DOS "date" program or the date is set wrong in the BIOS? That is a prett gross error to  ship a motherboard with so I am guessing it is something else (I could be wrong).

What was the memory error if found in the random memory tests?  Did it find one, or a number of errors. If you run it multiple times does it fail at the same address every time?

RoseFire

ousama,
I looks like I quit a little too early last night.  :)
I think your trouble is narrowed down to RAM, CPU or motherboard problem.

Have you tried substitute memory, or re-locating the DIMM that you have?

You might also try setting the bus frequency lower to see if system stabilizes.

If that fails, I would check for a possible BIOS upgrade or replace the motherboard.

Regards,
Ralph

Ousama, at this point the problem may be any one of the things Ralph mentioned.  You were already inclined to return the motherboard for a different one.  If it really does have a BIOS date of 1995 that suggests some very sloppy quality control on the board makes part.  That alone is enough to send it back.  How do you feel about that?  

If it turns out to be the DIMMS, at least you will have tested them on two systems.  However, you could get them exchanged at the same time as the motherboard if you want to cover both possibilities.

Just a thought.

RoseFire