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Help for my NT!

Posted on 1998-12-29
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Last Modified: 2013-12-28
Hi,

Somehow My NT Server machine won't boot any more this morning. I have some very important information in the Hard Disk that I can not lost! The hard disk I have is a SCSI hard disk with Adaptec AHA2940 controller. The File System I use is NTFS. When it try to boot, it say the "hal.dll" file maybe lost or corrupt. I try to replace this file, then I got another message say I miss another file.  I tried to create a NT boot disk and copy the require file, such as Boot.ini, NtDetect.com,ntldr...etc. It won't boot either and I got the same error message!

I try to put the HD to another NT Server and want to got the content in the Disk. However, I got see the C drive(the 1st item in the following table) and the D drive(the 4th item) but not the NT Stripe/Vol Set such as the 3rd and the 5th item where I store the important data in there!

I use a Partition Magic 4.0 boot disk to see the volumes in that disk. I got the following:

Volume      Type       Size    Used   Free   Status  Pri/Log

*:                              NT Stripe   1,341.3 1,341.3 0    Active Primary
           /vol Set

*:         Extended     2,996.5 2,996.5 0 None   Primary  

  *:       NT Stripe    251      251    0 None   Logic
           /vol Set

      *:SQL    NTFS         1,027.6  151.2  876.4 None Logic

  *:       NT Stripe    1,717.9  1,717.9 0  None  logic



I don't care if I can fix this NT server. All I want this moment is the data I stored 3rd and 5th item in the above table.  Is there any way to backup the data or copy it to somewhere else??? I really really need someone's help!!!

:```<
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Question by:fokchi
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by:tcalesa
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Put the disks back in the original machine. Do an install of NT and choose the original path. Have NT do an upgrade/repair installation. It should restore the stripe set. This will work even better if you had an emercency repair disk, if not the install *should* recover the stripe installation from saved registry data from good copies of the original install.

Good Luck.
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by:j_powers
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There is a program out there called NTFSDOS. IF you need to get files off the drive, that program seems to work best. It will create a boot floppy so you can access your NTFS drives. I would highly suggest backing up your stripe set before doing any reinstallation, even if it means doing a image copy of some sort. Here is where you can find more information on NTFSDOS

http://www.sysinternals.com/ntfs20.htm
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by:istal112898
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http://www.powerQuest.com/product/dc/DCdescription.html
This program is called DRIVE COPY 2.0 and it supports NTFS. since you want to recover those data what you need is to use this program in order to copy those partition to another hardrive. what you do is to set another Hardrive as Slave in the computer. this slave HD has to have the same or larger size than those partitions. Then, you create in another PC with NT  the boot disk with the Drive COPY 2.0. and boot with the disk. Then, you select to copy partition to the other HD.
this is how you do, the resource hd will be the one you are trying to get the data from. then you select the partition of the destination. and continue with the process. remember the partition destination has to be at least of the same size or larger. then, you will have your data recovered. and you can reinstall everything.


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by:wayneb
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I would go with tcalesa's suggestion and I would reject the current answer, If you reinstall Nt is will rebuild the stripe set, so long as you install to the same directory. Drive copy is not going to help you to recover in this situation. You have an Nt problem and if you were to copy the data you would be no better off then now.
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by:wayneb
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I would create the 3 winnt boot disks on another machine and have the Nt cdrom in the machine ready to reinstall. If you need help creating the 3 boot disks let me know what machine you will use to create them Win95 or winnt, and I will walk you thru this.
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by:fokchi
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But, does it recover the volume stripe sets if I don't have the emercency repair disk? Will that be a problem?


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by:istal112898
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Fokchi, with Drive COPY 2 you can copy the exact Stripe to another Hardrive without loosing it. you can install NT in the destination hardrive and then the rest of the Partition and stripe you can copy it to the hardrive. for example if you have 4 partition in the source drive. Create 4 partition to the destination drive where they are same size or larger.
you can recover your data in that way. I figured you used it as storage some of it. that can be recoverable. I would recommend doing this in order to back it up. you do not want to loose your data.
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by:fokchi
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Hi istal,

I have Drive Image 2.02 here. And I am creating a image for one of the stripe volume. I will then reinstall NT to a new HD. I want to know if I create 4 partition as you told me. And I restore this stripe volume to one of the partitions. Will NT recognie it? Or do I need to do anything in NT?


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by:fokchi
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Adjusted points to 700
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by:fokchi
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I tried NTFSDos. However, it can only read the SQL drive! Is there any problem???

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by:istal112898
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Drive COpy 2.02 will create the exact thing you had in the other hardrive. about NTFSDOS, I am not sure I do not use it. I think that with Drive Copy 2.02 that problem will be eliminated.
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by:istal112898
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Drive Image 2.02. that's good too. It is similar to drive copy 2.02.  I believe it will restore it fine.
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by:fokchi
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I restore the Stripe vol in NT and assign a drive letter G for it. I tried to access the restored drive. However, I got the following error message:


G:\is not accessible.
The volume does not contain a reconized file system.
please make sure that all required file system drivers are loaded and the volume is not corrupt.

In this case, what can I do next?

Help me!!!



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by:carmine
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Forget DriveCopy, NTFSDOS etc!  Tcalesa has the best idea so far.

Other alternatives:

1.  If you can access the original NT system partition on another machine, you may be able to recover the registry info for the stripe set.  See if you can copy the file: (on the failed drive) %systemroot%\System32\config\system.  If so then you may be able to copy the HKLM\SYSTEM\DISK registry key.  This assumes that your 'good' NT install on another machine DOES NOT have any stripe/volume sets, if it does you'll lose them!
a] Use regedt32 to open the HKLM hive.
b] With the root highlighted, select the Registry menu, then load hive.
c] Select the 'system' copied from your failed drive.
d] Give a temp name like 'temp'.
e] Navigate to HKLM\temp\SYSTEM and save the DISK key (Registry|Save Key).
f] Navigate to HKLM\SYSTEM and delete the existing DISK key, if it exists.
g] Now restore the DISK key saved above [e].
h] Unload the temp hive.
i] In control panel|devices make sure that the FTDisk entry is set to 'System' start.
j] Reboot, and you should see your volume set again on the new system.

2. On another machine, or the original if you can't recover the system partition and have to do a clean install of NT.  Use the FTEdit utility from the Resource Kit to reconstruct the registry info.  Many people have had problems with this but it has always worked for me.  The main problem is that it only works if you remember the order that the partitions were added to the volume set.  If you have FTEdit and the RK, then it is documented there how to use this utility.

3. Are you certain that you don't have any backups of the system partition taken since the volume set was created (and rdisk was run).  If you have one then you can recreate an ER disk using the bcakups of the registry files in teh %systemroot%\repair directory.
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by:fokchi
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I would like to use NTFSDOS. However, it can't reconize the Stripe set volume!
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by:fokchi
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I reinstall NT in the HD. I can see the stripe set volume under "NT Explorer". I then go to Start/Programs/Administrative tools/Disk Administrator.

Under the Disk 0, I got:

C:(NTFS 1341MB)   |  Unknown (251 MB) | D: (SQL BackUp NTFS 1028MB) | Unknown (1718 MB)

I tried to assign a Letter for those two "Unknown" partition which I think they are the Stripe Volume Set. However, when I try to access from "Explorer", It says this drive is not accessible. In that case, how can I restore the Stripe Set???


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by:carmine
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The second (and subsequent) partitions which are members of a volume set cannot be seen as independant drives.  You can only see that data on them be reconstructing the volume set as I described above.  This is because the disk structures for these files are probably on the first partition of the set.

If you don't have any access to the original registry, then you will have to use the FTEdit utility from the NT Resource Kit to reconstruct the volume set.

Do you have the NT RK?
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by:fokchi
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No, I don't have NT Resource Kit, do you?
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by:fokchi
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I found it. But, how to use it to re-built the volume Set??? Which tool I should use and how to use it? Can you give me step by step instruction? Thanks!

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by:carmine
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At the moment you can download a subset of the RK utilities for SP4 from the MS web site.  Fortunately it inlcudes the FTEdit utility, I suggest you go get it now!
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by:fokchi
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I found it. But, how to use it to re-built the volume Set??? Which tool I should use and how to use it? Can you give me step by step instruction? Thanks!

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by:fokchi
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I found the documentation for FTEdit. I will follow it and see if I need you help. By the way, is there anything I should notice while using it?
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by:carmine
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Confirmation: These are Volume Sets we are talking about?

Your disk is as follows?

Part 1 - Primary - 1,341.3
Part 2 - Extended - 2,996.5
Log Drive 1 - 251 - ???
Log Drive 2 - 1,027.6 - SQL
Log Drive 3 - 1,717.9 - ???

How many volume sets?
Which partitions in which V.set? and what order were they added?
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by:fokchi
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I found the documentation for FTEdit. I will follow it and see if I need you help. By the way, is there anything I should notice while using it?
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by:carmine
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Just remember that FTEdit just changes the registry, it doesn't alter data on the disks, so if you get it wrong, go back in, delete the previous attempt and try again.

Read all the documentation carefully, and you should be OK.

Remember that the FTDisk driver will have to be set to 'Boot' start in Control Panel|Devices before you reboot.
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by:fokchi
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carmine,

I have problem to use FTDISK. I am not sure if I need to use "Stripe Set " or "Stripe Set with Parity". I tried both, but they are not work for me!  Carminie, do you think I can let you access my server, via TCP/IP, and you can help me with fixing this problem remotely from your computer? I have a VNC Server software installed in the server and connected to internet. It is running ok. If you want, I can email you the VNC client software and the password to access my server. In this case, you can look at what happen in my server and fix it for me.

Just email me at ngyat@yahoo.com, if you would like to help me with this diaster! I know you are helping me not because of the points, but I will give you 1000 points after you fix that for me.

Many thanks,
Joe
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by:fokchi
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I reinstall NT in the HD. I can see the stripe set volume under "NT Explorer". I then go to Start/Programs/Administrative tools/Disk Administrator.

Under the Disk 0, I got:

C:(NTFS 1341MB)   |  Unknown (251 MB) | D: (SQL BackUp NTFS 1028MB) | Unknown (1718 MB)

I tried to assign a Letter for those two "Unknown" partition which I think they are the Stripe Volume Set. However, when I try to access from "Explorer", It says this drive is not accessible. In that case, how can I restore the Stripe Set???


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by:fokchi
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carmine,

I have problem to use FTDISK. I am not sure if I need to use "Stripe Set " or "Stripe Set with Parity". I tried both, but they are not work for me!  Carminie, do you think I can let you access my server, via TCP/IP, and you can help me with fixing this problem remotely from your computer? I have a VNC Server software installed in the server and connected to internet. It is running ok. If you want, I can email you the VNC client software and the password to access my server. In this case, you can look at what happen in my server and fix it for me.

Just email me at ngyat@yahoo.com, if you would like to help me with this diaster! I know you are helping me not because of the points, but I will give you 1000 points after you fix that for me.

Many thanks,
Joe
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by:Tim Holman
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Fokchi,
  Having read the thread it seems you have a corrupt hard drive.
  Hard drives unfortunately do not last forever, hence the availability of fault tolerant methods and an abundance of backup software...
  The only way to resolve your problem is to restore from backup.
  Stripe / volume sets are NOT fault tolerant.
  If they go wrong then you're stuck !
  In desperation, you could try one of those companies who will take apart your hard drive and recover data for you - they don't do too badly...
  In the UK, Dr Solomon's provide this service.
  In the future, you must choose something more fault tolerant (stripe set with parity, min. 3 HDDs or disk mirroring (min. 2HDDs) + an effective and well tested backup solution.

Happy New Year !

Tim
 
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by:j_powers
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The reason why I mentioned Drive Copy and NTFSDOS was to help you back up your data before doing the reinstallation. Unfortunately, I do not have a stripe set setup, so I cannot test it.

If your drive is completely backed up, including the stripe set, then you can run tests on the drive to get it up and running.
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by:gaestar
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There is a solution for you. You can read your drive with another NT ( you have done it ) and i'm sure your boot disk ( with the system files ) is not on the stripe set.  What you can do is recuperate the files that you need to create a repair disk.
In fact, you must first save all the files in winnt\repair
which are on the working NT in another directory.  Then , copy files in winnt\repair from your NT crashed to winnt\repair on your working NT.  Then, create a repair disk in the working NT and after, retransfer the original saved files in the repair directory.

This could work but in one case only : i hope you have done a rdisk command after creating the stripe set .  If it's not the case, don't try it , it won't work.
But if you do, you can try to launch installation floppy disk and select the "repair damaged disk" options when you will be prompted for

Good luck ( and don't forget to create a repair disk next time )

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by:Mujeeb082598
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Hi :)

Check this question it covers what u are asking about.

http://www.experts-exchange.com/topics/comp/os-ms-windows/general/nt/Q.10083112

Instead of typing all over again. It will gona cost u 15 points, but it worth it in your case.
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by:carmine
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If the partitions are on the same volume (as you have indictated so far) then you must have been using  Volume Sets, not stripe sets?

You need to be very clear about which partitions you used for what, and what order the were added together.  I can't really help you with this bit, it's down to your memory.  Can you give me any indication on this info?
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by:fokchi
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Hi Carmine,

The problem is I am not the one setup this NT. And the one setup it is gone! All I know is I there are two drive W and X which are the Stripe Set. And there are on on SCSI HD. Do you think I can try, one by one, C drive(Root Directory) and then D drive (SQL BackUp)?

I tried to set it up to Volume Set and then assign a Letter drive for it. It tell me the same thing:"F: is not accessible".


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by:fokchi
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Since I have tried to set up the Volume Set and Stripe Set for many times. In this case, do I need to delete the entry from the registry key. If so, how do I do it?

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by:fokchi
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Since I have tried to set up the Volume Set and Stripe Set for many times. In this case, do I need to delete the entry from the registry key. If so, how do I do it?

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by:fokchi
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Since I have tried to set up the Volume Set and Stripe Set for many times. In this case, do I need to delete the entry from the registry key. If so, how do I do it?

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by:carmine
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The system partition on the disk cannot be part of a FTDisk set.

From your initial post it looks like the first partition (the primary) is full and therefore was not the original system partition - if it was, then that is why your server went belly up in the first place.

CAN YOU CONFIRM THIS?

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by:fokchi
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Yes, my System partition on the disk is FTDisk set. Is there a problem? How can I do in this case?


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Author Comment

by:fokchi
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Yes, my System partition on the disk is FTDisk set. Is there a problem? How can I do in this case?


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Author Comment

by:fokchi
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Yes, my System partition on the disk is FTDisk set. Is there a problem? How can I do in this case?


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Author Comment

by:fokchi
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Yes, my System partition on the disk is FTDisk set. Is there a problem? How can I do in this case?


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by:fokchi
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Yes, my System partition on the disk is FTDisk set. Is there a problem? How can I do in this case?


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by:carmine
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The system partition cannot be part of an FT set (except a mirror), therefore we can exclude it from FTEdit.

That only leaves three logical drives in the extended partition to play with, yet you say that you had two volume sets on the original drive?

As you have the RK, can you run DISKMAP on this drive and post the results please.
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by:carmine
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Sorry but I'm off now until tomorrow. I'll check if you're sorted out then.
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by:Ellee
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Hi fokchi,
We understand you're in big trouble, though I can't help you on this yet I'm sure others would do their best. Looks like you're in panic and sending 4 same messages in one go. In NT managing the rule of thrumb is to stay calm. Do keep it steady..
C'mon guys, let's do something!
Wish all you here a Happy New Year!
Ellee
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by:Mujeeb082598
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Hi :)

fokchi, have u read the question which i mentioned before. Just go through it, as i said to u before it will help u. Just give it a try.
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by:tcalesa
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Fokchi,
Be careful with disk admin. Before you continue making changes, make sure to save the current drive partition information. There is a chance that you will overwrite the drive info with something slightly different, and lose all data.

I still reccomend a repair installation, especially if you have time sensitive needs. In the future, I suggest you make use of a backup of your data so you can recover the drives even if the partition is lost for good.

The reinstall option is especially easy if you have a good repair disk. If not, the install will look for registry data saved in the system partition that it can use to repair install the original system. It may take a couple of hours, but you have been working on this for a few days, and are starting (as mentioned above) to sound frantic. Repair installation is a simple, fairly effective way to restore the partition data.

Good Luck


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by:fokchi
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I have done the repaire installation! But it is without the Emergencry disk.(I don't have it!) I just reinstall the NT 5. I do revise the setting in Disk Administrator for couple time. How do I save the current drive partition information and overwrite the drive info?

At this moment, I just want to access and copy the information from the 2 and 3 partition! For now, all I see in Disk Administrator is in the status of "Unknown". I try serveral time to access them. All they tell me is "this disk is inaccessable"

I really tired of this ****! Help me !
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by:Mujeeb082598
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HI :)

fokchi, i think u are ignoring my comments. Ok to tell u that if u do not have the repair disk after u had created the strip or volume set, no matter how many times u install NT it will not bring it automatically.

U have to rebuild it your self by using the ftedit command and in the same order u have created before. I do not want to re-write the whole story here again please refer to the following question.
http://www.experts-exchange.com/topics/comp/os-ms-windows/general/nt/Q.10083112
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by:fokchi
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Mujeeb,

I think I have created the Disk info wrong wrong. How do delete the entry from the registry key before I use the ftedit utility to recreate the volume set information again?


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by:fokchi
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Mujeeb,

I think I have created the Disk info wrong wrong. How do delete the entry from the registry key before I use the ftedit utility to recreate the volume set information again?


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by:fokchi
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Hi Guys,

I really need the data in the NT! I don't care if I can fix the HD. All I want is some data in one of the partitions, not all! I tried all options in FTEdit! All I get is the "unknown" partition in Disk Administrator! And when I assign a letter to those "unknown" partition. I got a message say "This Drive is Inaccessible".

Help! Help! Guys help me access this drive and copy the data. I really tired of NT this moment!


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by:wayneb
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This utility should beable to recovery the data you need have a look at it, it is non detructive and you will know if you are able to get it back.
http://www.recovery.de/
http://www.recovery.de/download/nt_rec.zip

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by:Mujeeb082598
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Hi :)

fokchi, run regedt32 and go to the Local Machine key and delete the DISK registry entry from the following

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\DISK]

DISK is created by the disk administrator automatically when ever u run it. So if u created the strip/volume set in wrong order. Just go and delete the DISK registry entry and then run disk administrator it will recreate this key and then u can use the ftedit utility to re-create in correct order.

Told u that looking at the previous question will give u insight :)
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by:tcalesa
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You don't neccessarily need the repair disk, It just makes life easier. When you start the installation and select the original path. You should have been asked if you wanted to repair the currewnt installation. You are then given a number of check boxes with the options for the repair. If you did not do this, and if you re-created the new partition with the wrong volume set sizes, I'm afraid you may be out of luck. Any more tinkering may make things worse. Try mujeebs suggestion, but also find out the cost of recovering data from recovery specialists in your area. If you recreated the partition and started usin it, the data may already be lost.

If you installed NT into a different directory and did not choose the repair option, you may still have a chance to recover using the method I've given you.

Good luck
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by:snowleopard
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How valuable is this data? First DriveCopy the disks to a couple of other drives so you have the original set and a working copy of the inaccessable stripe sets. Put them in a System and Boot from a Dos disk, then load up Tiramisu  from www.recovery.de, this utility will very likely be able to access and recover some if not much of your data for copying to another drive. If this does not work take the original HDDs/Stripe Set to a data recovery lab eg: www.datarec.com, they will be able to get your data back for you, but be warned it's very expensive.
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by:snowleopard
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re: my previous: Don't you do daily backups to tape, DLT, DAT or AIT. This is the First law of Computing (the 2nd is RTFM), might be something to think about later. I wish you good luck, knowbody likes loosing critical data at anytime.
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Mujeeb082598 earned 850 total points
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Hi :)

The operating system has information about which disks are members of volumes, but it cannot distinguish between a stripe set, a stripe set with parity, a volume set, or a mirror set without the Registry information. In this situation, when the volumes are displayed in Disk Administrator, the file system might be displayed as Unknown, and there will be no drive letter assigned to the volumes. This is to prevent writing to the volume, which could corrupt it.

When using FTEdit to rebuild the DISK Registry subkey, you need to know the order in which the unused areas on the disks were combined to create the volume. The following scenario shows why order is important.

A previous user created a volume/stripe set by combining unpartitioned areas on three disks in this order:
      2 MB on disk 2
      3 MB on disk 0
      4 MB on disk 1
         
When someone creates a volume/stripe set, the Partition Boot Sector is the first sector on the first area selected. Data are written to the areas in the order in which they are combined. Thus, if someone created a 6 MB file on this volume set, the file would occupy the following areas:
      2 MB on disk 2
      3 MB on disk 0
      1 MB on disk 1
         
Now you need to use FTEdit to rebuild the volume/stripe set. You select the disks in the order disk 0, disk 1, and then disk 2. Windows NT will not be able to find the Partition Boot Sector for the volume set, because the first sector of the volume/stripe set that you rebuilt is on disk 0, which contains only data. The Partition Boot Sector is actually on disk 2, but that disk area is at the end of the volume/stripe set you created. Your attempt to rebuild the volume/stripe set has failed, because you did not know the order in which to combine the disk areas.

With the help of above example. Now only thing left with u is to use the ftedit and choose the correct order in which u have created the volume/stripe set in the first place.

Hope this clears the mystry and have your volume/stripe set back to u if u have not already messed it up :(

By reading your replies u should create a stripe set not stripe set with parity. The difference in stipe set and srtipe set with parity is that stripe set is not fault tolerance, i just divide the data among disks for faster access. Where stripe set with parity does the same but add a parity to data so in case of one disk failure, the data is regenrated from the parity after replacing the failed disk.
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Our Group Policy work started with Small Business Server in 2000. Microsoft gave us an excellent OU and GPO model in subsequent SBS editions that utilized WMI filters, OU linking, and VBS scripts. These are some of experiences plus our spending a lo…
Recently Microsoft released a brand new function called CONCAT. It's supposed to replace its predecessor CONCATENATE. But how does it work? And what's new? In this article, we take a closer look at all of this - we even included an exercise file for…
This video Micro Tutorial explains how to clone a hard drive using a commercial software product for Windows systems called Casper from Future Systems Solutions (FSS). Cloning makes an exact, complete copy of one hard disk drive (HDD) onto another d…
This Micro Tutorial will give you a basic overview of Windows DVD Burner through its features and interface. This will be demonstrated using Windows 7 operating system.

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