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Second Hard Drive

Posted on 1999-01-04
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Last Modified: 2012-05-04
I have a Cyrix 166 on a Tomato HX MB.  This had one Quantum Diamond 3.2GB HDD partitioned into C:=2.0, D:=1.0 on IDE 1 and a CDRom as E: on IDE 2.  I recently added a Seagate Medallist 8.6GB slave HDD on IDE 1, with jumpers set to "Slave".  I first registered the new HDD in the BIOS (AMIBIOS v.4.6PG).  Then I shelled out to DOS from Win95 and ran FDISK. My system will not allow more than 2.0GB per logical drive, so I set up the whole of the new drive as an Extended DOS partition with four logical drives E,F,G,H of 2.0GB each.  Then I formatted each of the logical drives (in DOS).  Then shelled back into Win95.

Windows Explorer and "My Computer" both show C: and D: as before.  They also show E: as the first logical drive on the new HDD, they do not show F,G,or H and even worse, neither shows any mention of I: - the CDRom.

DOS recognises all of the drives, Scandisk recognises all of the drives, typing the path beginning G:\ etc will allow files to be copied to or read from all the missing drives, but it is quite impossible to operate without "seeing" the drives from Explorer or My Computer (the file manager programs).

1) What have I done wrong?
2) Do I really need to limit myself to 2GB per logical drive, where is this limit imposed and can it be bypassed?  Other users I know with other equipment do not suffer from this limit.
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Question by:obuckley
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by:mitrakis
ID: 1132454
obuckley,

I guess you use an "older" version of WIN95 (this version *cannot* support > 2GB drives)
WIN95 v2.1or v2.5 for example supports FAT32, therefore you won't get problems with HDDs > 2GB !
If this isn't that difficult for you (due to data or installed apps) just install the latest WIN95 version *from scratch* !
This way, FDISK will offer you the FAT32 support and the problems should be solved.

Regards
-Stavi-

P.S.:
Have you checked if you have any entries in autoexec.bat regarding drive letters ?
Any conflicts shown in device manager ?
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Author Comment

by:obuckley
ID: 1132455
OK on the 2GB point.  I really do have too many programs etc. installed to change to Win95B or Win98 with the 32 bit FAT.  Do you know of any way of upgrading to FAT32 without losing all this data or reinstalling all the programs?

There is no limit on drive letters in the Autoexec.bat (I have seen "LASTDRIVE= " on some Autoexecs, but not mine)

I didn't find any conflicts in Device Manager
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by:mitrakis
ID: 1132456
No way !
Unless you "upgrade" to WIN95B (that means a *full* install), you cannot convert the file system to FAT32...(and it *cannot* be bypassed !)
You didn't mention if FDISK shows you all the drives (just scandisk and DOS).
Could you please check from *plain* DOS if FDISK recognizes all the partitions correctly ?
(you said you *can* copy to the "invisible" drives so I think FDISK will see them...but just to be sure, hehehe)
Let us know.

-Stavi-
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Author Comment

by:obuckley
ID: 1132457
OK, no FAT32, shame about that.

Yes, FDISK does show all the drive letters.  That is where I set them all up and it does show them.

Incidentally, fearing that one of the File Manager programs might have become corrupted and that that might be a source of the problem, I did reinstall Win95 and the problem remains the same.
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Expert Comment

by:MATTCEI
ID: 1132458
Have you changed the Quantum's jumpers from 'single' to 'master'? (Not sure if this drive makes a distinction between the two,but most do.)

If NG,try moving the new HD to IDE2 (some drive combinations just don't like to co-exist on the same controller) - first without the CD,then if OK add the CD as slave.Don't forget to change the appropriate master/slave jumpers.Shouldn't be necessary to re-Fdisk/Format it after the move.

As for upgrading to Win98 (allowing FAT32),simply buy the upgrade version of it.However,you would still have to re-Fdisk all drives to a single partition.To avoid this you could also add Partition Magic,which allows dynamic re-partitioning;but you would still need the Win98 upgrade.Also,any software with embedded pointers to folders on a drive other than C: will now have to be 'tweaked' or re-loaded.
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by:sverre
ID: 1132459
Lastdrive statement always resides in config.sys, so if not have seen any in autoexec.bat, thats ok!
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by:obuckley
ID: 1132460
MATTCEI:  I think you have it.  I don't believe I did change the jumpers on the original single drive, only on the new slave.  Will try it and see.  Thanks so much.

As regards the Upgrade version of Win98, will this upgrade a Win95 v.4.00 (not B, therefore FAT16) to FAT32 basis, without destroying all my current programs?
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Expert Comment

by:Stevie_emwsys
ID: 1132461
Win 98 will upgrade the hard drive to FAT 32.
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by:rmarotta
ID: 1132462
>  As regards the Upgrade version of Win98, will this upgrade a Win95 v.4.00 (not B, therefore FAT16) to FAT32 basis, without destroying all my current programs?

Win98 can do that but there's no return from it.
If you don't have the hardware set up properly in W95 though, I don't think W98 is going to "fix" anything.

How are the hard drive controllers listed in Device Manager?  

Regards,
Ralph
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Author Comment

by:obuckley
ID: 1132463
rmarotta: you asked - How are the hard drive controllers listed in Device Manager?   I don't have the machine to hand, but from memory, it lists both as Standard IDE controllers.

Anyway, Big thanks to MATTCEI for identifying the solution to the main problem. Also thanks to Stevie_emwsys and rmarotta for the info about Win98 upg.
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by:rmarotta
ID: 1132464
I think your board has a dual PCI IDE controller and if it has a VIA chipset, you might want to look at upgraded drivers for it.  Early Win95 did not have support for all devices.
Check the following website for busmastering drivers and PCI bridge patches that might apply:

http://www.bmdrivers.com/via.htm

Let me know if you need more.

Ralph
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Author Comment

by:obuckley
ID: 1132465
rmarotta: How do I tell if the board has a VIA chipset?  As I mentioned, it is a Tomato HX Motherboard, which I believe is based on the Intel 420HX chipset; beyond that, it is all Greek to me (as indeed the manual for the board may as well be).  Yes it has 2 IDE connections supporting up to four discrete devices.  Again, the controller is accessed by 40 pin connectors directly on the board.  I don't know if you would class the controller as PCI - the only devices I normally hear described as PCI are those that occupy a PCI slot, which this doesn't.
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by:rmarotta
ID: 1132466
Sorry, I forgot reading about HX in your question.
PCI/IDE controllers are attached to the bus on the motherboard instead of the PCI slot sockets.
Do you have the model number for your board?
If not, the BIOS revision number might be helpful.  Look for it at lower-left side of screen after memory counts up when computer is powered-up. (Try the "Pause" key to stop display so you can read it)
Perhaps we can find some info for your system on the web.
Ralph
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by:rmarotta
ID: 1132467
FYI:
See the readme about PCI Bridge fix and a download link here:

http://www.windrivers.com/company/intel/intelp.htm
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Author Comment

by:obuckley
ID: 1132468
rmarotta: I followed your web link and identified the Download "button".  Unfortunately, I got a 'The requested header was not found' error message.  I tried linking directly to www.intel...... to find that the closest subdir to /pcisets had been moved to /chipsets.  This seemed to refer to a similar solution to the same problem as the WinDrivers site, unfortunately again, the download function returned a 'The requested header was not found' again, so I have given up for now.  
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by:rmarotta
ID: 1132469
Hmmmmm,
I tried it several times and it worked okay......
(The filename is SETUPEX.EXE)

Perhaps you can view this site and use it's link for the new busmaster drivers:

http://developer.intel.com/design/chipsets/drivers/busmastr/

Ralph
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Author Comment

by:obuckley
ID: 1132470
It may be a limitation on my web access from here at work.  Will try again at home later.  Thanks Ralph.  Signing off for today.

Oliver
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Expert Comment

by:Jason_S
ID: 1132471
Do you have Lastdrive=Z command in your Config.sys?  If not, put it in there.

There is a registry change that will let you hide the listing of a drive in Explorer.  Sounds like this may have happened to you.  Get TweakUI from this site.  http://www.tmp-houston.com/win95tips/Tip1h.htm  (this is a Microsoft program) Install this on your system, then access it through Control Pannel, and go to the My Computer Icon.  Make sure all drive letters are checked.

We'll get your drives recognized properly, then work on the update if you like.
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Expert Comment

by:steath_acid
ID: 1132472
Partition Magic will convert your drives to FAT32 and do a nondestructive repartition do it is all together.
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Author Comment

by:obuckley
ID: 1132473
Well I tried a few things.

MattCEI: It seems the jumper settings on the Primary drive Quantum Fireball 3.2GB do not need changing after all.  There are four pairs of connectors, only one jumper is required (or at least the results of having more than one are not listed).  1 is Jumper parking (PK), 2 is Cable Select (CB), 3 is Master (DS), 4 or no jumper is Slave (SP).  Clearly 1 and 4 do not apply.  3 is where I had the jumper originally, 2 returns Primary Hard Disk fail in the boot-up process (as do 1 and 4 - I tried them anyway).  The jumper settings for the secondary hard disk (Seagate Medallist 8.6GB) include Master, Slave, Cable Select and a couple of others which do not apply.  I have set this to Slave.  To be honest, I do not know what Cable Select is even supposed to mean, but as I don't seem to be able to get past the first stage of boot-up with it, I assume it is not meant for my situation.

rmarotta: I did manage to get through to the Setupex.exe utility and installed it.  It probably works fine and may be as well to have, but it did not solve the problem.  Just to be sure, I followed up your other link on the Intel site and downloaded what is probably a similar solution called BMIDE.exe installing this also had no effect on the drive letters seen by the File Managers.

Jason_S: I will try what you suggest about the Lastdrive command.  I already have TweakUI on the machine, and although I certainly never fiddled with the Drive letters on it, I will check what you suggested when I can next access the machine this evening.  Thanks.

By the way, when one of you does "crack" the problem, how do I notify Experts-Exchange and take the question off the "live" list? Or do they do this themselves by monitoring the traffic?
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Author Comment

by:obuckley
ID: 1132474
rmarotta:  you asked for an ID on the board.  The numbers that come up in the boot screen are:

     06/14/96-i430HX-W877-2A59FZ19C-00
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by:mitrakis
ID: 1132475
In case you're satisfied, the expert will  post his comment as an answer. Then you'll grade it and award him your points.
This way, your question will be placed under "previously asked qustions" where other customers can access the question/answer...

Best regards
-Stavi-
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Expert Comment

by:MATTCEI
ID: 1132476
Next step would be to try it on IDE2.
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by:rmarotta
ID: 1132477
obuckley,
Something's wrong here concerning your BIOS numbers.
In your question you said:
"I first registered the new HDD in the BIOS (AMIBIOS v.4.6PG)."
Then, in your last post, you gave me an AWARD BIOS number.

Was that a typo in your original question?

Using the AWARD number I found this page which lists a BIOS upgrade for the Tomato board Model 5DHX:

http://www.zida.com/bios.htm

Perhaps it can help recognize the new hard drive correctly.  Be sure to consult the readme for instructions.

Ralph
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Author Comment

by:obuckley
ID: 1132478
rmarotta: Sorry, memory lapse - it is an Award BIOS and the long number is definitely correct.  Probably the version number I gave earlier 4.6pg is also correct, I just misrecalled the manufacturer.

MattCEI: I will try this as well.  From memory of when I originally built the machine, the cable lengths, socket locations on the board and drive locations in the case make it physically difficult, but I may at least be able to test it with the drives loose and then buy new cables as necessary.

mitrakis: thanks for info
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Author Comment

by:obuckley
ID: 1132479
rmarotta: memory lapse; should be Award not AMI.  Still version 4.6pg and the long numbers I gave were correct. I have visited the Zida website you suggested and will try out the update.

MattCEI: will try what you suggest.  Physical cabling does not make this easy, but I can try it with the drives loose and buy longer cables if it works.

mitrakis: tks for info.
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Expert Comment

by:vidrine
ID: 1132480
Perhaps check your CDROM Properties\Settings in
Control Panel\System\Device Manager for your specific CDRom.  I'd think if you had prvious fixed setting in the Reserved Drive Letters box, that could perhaps cause windows to get confused.  If it is set to any letter lower than "I", then chaaaange it.  Preferably, this should be set to "Z" then you can implement further changes without worrying about it again.

If this is not the problem, check that you have a line in your config.sys:
"Lastdrive=Z".  The letter after the equal sign should be "I" or higher.
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Expert Comment

by:vidrine
ID: 1132481
Oops ... I forgot to answer the second part.  The 2Gig limit is in the OS.  If you upgrade to OSR2 or OSR2.5 you can go above 2 gigs.
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Author Comment

by:obuckley
ID: 1132482
Jason_S:  Please post your previously suggested answer for acceptance.  The "Lastdrive=" command made no difference on its own.  However, after applying it, TWEAKUI clearly showed all the drives up to Z, with F,G and H of the new hard disk unchecked and I - the CDROM also unchecked.  Checking these solved the problem completely.  I have no idea why the Registry should have had any of these new drives defaulting to unchecked.  Somebody else I told about this said the default should always be that they be checked.  Anyway, regardless of the cause, your suggested solution did work and I would like to accept it.

vidrine: Sorry, your answer may have merit, I don't know, but a previous answer has solved the problem.

Thanks to all for your kind responses.  
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Jason_S earned 50 total points
ID: 1132483
Glad to have been able to help!  For refrence, see my previous comment.
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