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Win98 unstable

Posted on 1999-06-30
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Last Modified: 2013-12-29
My Win98 has lost it's stability. I'm getting lots of application errors, lock-ups on boot and shutdown and registry errors. System specs:
Homebuilt system with Abit Bx6R2 (with KH bios), Celeron 300a @ 504 (good temps, peltier cooled), 256 MB Mushkin GH RAM, IBM 13 GB 7200 rpm HD, Kenwood True 52 CD, Leadtek TNT2 running NVIDIA Detonator 2.03 drivers.

Recent hardware changes: Added 128 MB of RAM, added Kenwood True 52 CD-ROM drive.

Recent software changes:
Installed and then uninstalled Win98 SE. Installed Doom95 and Data Becker Stuka add-on for MS Combat Flight Simulator.

Fail entries from bootlog.txt:

[00075733] Loading Vxd = ndis2sup.vxd
[00075734] LoadFailed = ndis2sup.vxd

[00075759] SYSCRITINIT  = VIAGART
[00075759] SYSCRITINITFAILED   = VIAGART

[00075927] Dynamic load device  naapi.vxd
[00075927] Dynamic load failed  naapi.vxd : [00075927] File not found

LoadStart = Öe
LoadFail = Öe Failure code is 0002

I have searched registry and ini files for reference to "Öe" without success. It seems to be an obviously corrupt value...

I desperately need to fix this without formatting at almost any cost as I have much stuff that cannot be reinstalled and my backup is old.... Big points for a working answer.....
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Question by:capttom
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30 Comments
 
LVL 14

Expert Comment

by:smeebud
ID: 1671927
Give ASD a shot.

Automatic Skip Driver Agent identifies devices that can cause Windows 98 to stop
  responding (hang) when you start your computer, and then disables them so that they are
  bypassed when you next restart your computer.

  To start Automatic Skip Driver, click Start, point to Programs, point to Accessories, point
  to System Tools, click System Information, and then click Automatic Skip Driver Agent
  on the Tools menu.

  For more information about how to use the Microsoft System Information tool in Windows
  98, see the following article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:

  ARTICLE-ID : Q184075
  TITLE : Description of Microsoft System Information (Msinfo32.exe) Tool
   

  All devices or operations that have failed to start are listed by Automatic Skip Driver
  Agent. You can use Automatic Skip Driver Agent to enable any device it has previously
  disabled, and Windows 98 then tries to use the device when you next restart your
  computer. If this device or operation does not start correctly, your computer stops
  responding.

  If you then restart your computer for a third time, Automatic Skip Driver Agent prevents
  the device or operation from running, and when your computer starts, click Details to
  identify the device or operation that does not start correctly and then display a suggested
  course of action.

  If Automatic Skip Driver Agent is unable to locate any errors, you may receive a message
  stating so, and you can then click OK to quit Automatic Skip Driver Agent.

  NOTE: Devices disabled by Automatic Skip Driver Agent to allow Windows to start are
  recorded in the Asd.log file.

Regards,
Bud
http://www.geocities.com/~budallen/
http://members.xoom.com/bud_allen_ts
Bud's Win95 Win98 Tips and Troubleshooter
0
 
LVL 8

Expert Comment

by:netmage
ID: 1671928
Reduce the overclocking temporarily to see if the system becomes stable.
0
 

Author Comment

by:capttom
ID: 1671929
I will try the ASD tonight. As for reducing system speed, the system has been stable for over a month at this speed. I did try reducing it back to stock but things are still fuct.
0
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LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:MATTCEI
ID: 1671930
Your new memory may not be able to handle the overclocked CPU bus speed.Try pulling it and see if the problems go away.If so,see if your mainboard has a jumper that lets you run the memory bus asynchronously with respect to the CPU bus.Netmage's suggestion is probably the best - 504mhz is pushing it a bit.
0
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:MATTCEI
ID: 1671931
Didn't see your last comment before I posted.

Again,try pulling the new 128mb of RAM,but you may have damaged your CPU from the overclocking (this CAN happen).

Try UNDER-clocking the CPU.You might also want to try disabling the L2/External cache in BIOS.
0
 
LVL 8

Expert Comment

by:netmage
ID: 1671932
Did the problems start after installing the new Ram?
Have you tried removing that extra ram?

I'm looking at your problem in this way to establish what was the recent cause to change things.

You mentioned installation of new software recently.
Have you run system file checker to update any odd system files?
I suspect doom95.

Is the version of win98 SE the release version or a beta?
Was it the upgrade or full cd version that you upgraded over old win98. (i'm not sure which version you are currently running)
I mentioned this because you said you had so much old stuff in your system.


0
 

Author Comment

by:capttom
ID: 1671933
The RAM is Mushkin GH, the best RAM that can be bought. It's not the problem. Things really started going bad after I installed the MS Libraries update off the Windows update web site and/or the Win98 SE (which I later removed). I really think this is a Win98 issue, not an overclocking issue.

What would help me would be a way to re-install the original version of Win98 without loosing the rest of my DLLs and VXDs. Some method of just bringing system files back to original?
0
 
LVL 8

Expert Comment

by:netmage
ID: 1671934
Run system file checker and see what errors you get.
You will have the option to reinstall standard system files.


Are you running IE5.
Many programs have recent updates because of the new release of win98se and ie5. I know you wish to remove 98SE updates but i know there was a problem with atleast one tnt based card i know of and ie5.
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:RickWillkins
ID: 1671935
I can't help but put in my $.02 just because the ram is the best money can buy, doesn't mean you can not have gotten a bad stick....it happens. try removing it and see what happens, it really sounds like a memory problem......it could be that your OLD memory toasted too....
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:crojas
ID: 1671936
Did you try running setup over your installation?
Sometimes fixes many problems.
After the setup your computer will run with every driver (even from 3rd parties). It won't let your system as it was a fresh install.
0
 
LVL 6

Expert Comment

by:joe_massimino
ID: 1671937
I suggest that you edit your system.ini and remove the entries that are failing. You didn't say if you are on a network, I'm guessing not.

The error 0002 is saying that the files can't be found, so removing the entries in system.ini will make the errors go away.

I don't know what you installed that would modify your system in that way, but be careful of loading older software, pre win98, or old win95.

Modify the system.ini and remove the refereence to ndis2sup.vxd ,naapi.vxd and VIAGART  then modify your win.ini and remove whatever is in front of the load, and run lines.
0
 

Author Comment

by:capttom
ID: 1671938
I've been talking with Mushkin, the manufacturer or the RAM and have some things to try tonight on that end. Am also going to run the "system file checker" and see what comes up. I'll let you know. Thanks for the help so far.
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:syzygy
ID: 1671939
If non of the other idea work, you can reinstall windows without formatting and without losing all your data. (You will need to reinstall programs though)

you need a bootable disk with at least the following:
CDROM drivers
fdisk
sys
deltree
attrib

get any data you need to keep out of windows and program files
boot off the disk.  
deltree the program files directory
deltree windows
delete config.sys and autoexec.bat
run fdisk /MBR
sys C:
copy the contents of the win98 folder on the win98 CD to c:
take the disk out, boot off the C:
run setup from within the win98 folder on C:

this means you have to reinstall all your programs, which is annoying but you can just put the original disks back in or download them from the internet again.

It's unfortunate, but sometime windows just has to be wiped clean, especially after a failed (or aborted) upgrade.  Sometimes it's possible to fix windows, but sometimes it isn't. As to reinstalling without losing the extra VXDs and DLLs, why do you need to?  they get reinstalled when you reinstall the program, and you have to reinstall the program after reinstalling windows because you lose the registary entries (if you keep the registary, 99% of teh time you keep the problem)


IMO this a software problem and nothing to do with the RAM or overclocking, but it wouldn't hurt to put it back the way it was just in case.  Also try some of the less destructive ideas here before trying this.




0
 
LVL 25

Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 1671940
Did you return the CPU speed back to normal "before" installing Win98 SE, if not, it will crash, courtesy of AMD!
Dennis
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:nbdyfool
ID: 1671941
One question occurs to me...You said you have an IBM 13 GB Hard drive.  Is it ATA66 capable by any chance?  If so, does your Motherboard support ATA66, and do you have the special 80 conductor-40 pin cable?  If your drive is set for ATA66 and you don't have the cable or motherboard support, it can cause mysterious data errors, system lockups, and general mayhem, and drive you nuts trying to find it.  The solution is to disable the ATA66 support in the hard drive via a utility that the manufacturer should be able to supply.  You may have to wipe the drive and reload everything after that, but it might be the solution.
0
 

Author Comment

by:capttom
ID: 1671942
Well, I spent last night testing at the suggestion of the techs from Mushkin Memory. Here's what I came up with:

My test results:
both sticks in @ 112 mhz- Registry errors, CAS-2 or 3
both sticks in @ 100 mhz- Apparently stable, CAS-2 or 3
either stick alone @ 112 mhz- Apparently stable, CAS-2 or 3

This certainly indicates that Mushkin was right about extra load from added RAM. It would seem to indicate that both sticks are good. I'm thinking I may just be at my limit with that CPU.

0
 
LVL 25

Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 1671943
capttom,

You actually provided part of the information in your last comment, "both sticks in @ 100 mhz- Apparently stable, CAS-2 or 3 ". Your motherboard's bus may support 100MHz, but when you begin pushing the Celeron above it's limits your also pushing the bus, which makes both the processor and all of the related components including memory beyond their respective limits. Back in November AMD posted test data regarding this same issue when they overclocked their own processors as against various overclocked PII series Intel processor. At the time, they took a cross-section of the better motherboards, including Abit, and found that while 10-25% overclocking remained stable, speeds beyond that caused a whole series of side effects.
Dennis

0
 

Author Comment

by:capttom
ID: 1671944
Yea, I just hate like hell to back off from 504 :((((
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:nbdyfool
ID: 1671945
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say you had a Celeron processor?  I know that many people have had good results with overclocking Celeron 300a's to 450mhz, but 504 might be a little too much.  It certainly could cause things to get a little squirrelly.  The difference between 450 and 504 can't be that much in terms of overall performance.
0
 

Author Comment

by:capttom
ID: 1671946
Yes, Celeron 300a. 504 was just fine with one stick of RAM, with 2 it IS a bit much it seems.
0
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:MATTCEI
ID: 1671947
Did you check yet for asynchronous memory clocking?
0
 

Author Comment

by:capttom
ID: 1671948
MATTCEI, no I didn't. Can you provide instructions? is that a bios setting?
0
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:MATTCEI
ID: 1671949
Your mainboard may not support it,but if it does it would be a single jumper that says something about memory bus speed.Should allow you to run the memory useing the CPU clock (the current setting,at 112mhz) or the PCI bus clock (about 37mhz with a CPU clock of 112mhz) or the AGP bus clock (about 74mhz with a CPU clock of 112mhz).

Don't forget about trying the full 256mb of RAM with the external/L2 cache disabled in BIOS - it also runs at the CPU clock's speed and may actually be the culprit.
0
 

Expert Comment

by:Ballsic
ID: 1671950
Hello!
I have a suggestion, the files that you have error in, are network device drivers, see if you can track them in your regestry, and delete the keys.
I dont know if your modem are using the files so... backup before deleting.
Hope i could be of any help.
0
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:MATTCEI
ID: 1671951
capttom - you there?
0
 

Author Comment

by:capttom
ID: 1671952
Well, the end result here, after trying everything suggested here and by Mushkin, is that I had to back down to 464 in order to run both sticks of RAM. Not the answer I was hoping for but I think the benifits of having the extra RAM outweigh the loss of a few mhz.
0
 
LVL 8

Expert Comment

by:netmage
ID: 1671953
Thanks for the update capttom.

How do you wish to close this question?

500 points is abit much to give to one person considering several people suggested reduced overclocking which was in the end the only unhappy conclusion you came to yourself.

There was also a fair bit of input placed in this question so deleteing it may be a bit of an injustice to those that kept adding comments and not just jumping in with answers all the time.

Netmage

0
 
LVL 6

Expert Comment

by:joe_massimino
ID: 1671954
Actually, Netmage was the first to suggest that the overclocking may be the problem, had you tested it back then you may have ended the question there, so the rest of this is a mute point. Award the points to Netmage as he deserves them. The fact that you are awarding 500 points has nothing to do with it.
0
 

Author Comment

by:capttom
ID: 1671955
Joe is right. Netmage, submit an answer and it's yours. As for the points amount, I've had this account for some time and don't use it much so the points add up in my bank. I figure folks will try harder for a high point question. Thanks to all.
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LVL 8

Accepted Solution

by:
netmage earned 2000 total points
ID: 1671956
Thankyou. Thats very decent of you capptom.

The outcome of this question may help me in some work i have to do this weekend.

2 Abit BP6 dual celeron motherboards. I have to see thier overclocking limits and benefits for win2k. I'll probably use a single ram module for these now.

Netmage
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