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video s3 virge vs s3 trio 64v+

Posted on 1999-07-10
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Last Modified: 2012-06-22
my mother board was replaced by warrenty company.
i had a s3 virge; they replaced with a trio 64v+
they will get the virge if i can prove the trio is not a upgrade. per s3 web page the trio came out in 1995 and the virge in 1997.
data: virge [325] memory: size 2m / type 1-cycle edo dram
   cr2d=56 cr2e=31 cr2f=d6 cr3d=e1 cr36=92 cr6f=18

      trio 64v+[765] LPB memory:size 2m type fast page mode dram  cr2d=88 cr2e=11 cr2f=44 cr3d=e1 cr36=92  cr6f=18

please i know both are junk,but which is better?
how can i find out motherboard chipset[win98]?
any other thoughts?
points negotiable
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Question by:clb4aces
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23 Comments
 
LVL 15

Expert Comment

by:simonet
ID: 1871914
clbaces,

I've had experience with both video cards you mentioned: The S3 Virge and the S3 Trio 64V+. Here's what I can tell based on my experience:

The Virge's overall performance under Windows is much better than the Trio's. I mean that it can achieve higher refresh rates, it's memory is a lot faster and it's more compatible with other operating systems and games than the Trio 64. I've also used both of them under linux and, although both of them were troublesome to setup under XFree86, I was able to solve the problem with the Virge, but the problem with the Trio is still pending. On my machine I use a 1996 Diamond Stealth64 3200 VRAM, based on the S2 986 chip, and TI 3026 chipset.

They are good cards, but I think the company didn't act fair, since the Virge is also sligthly more expensive than the Trio.

As of the motherboard, check this link:

www.ping.be/bios

and download the CTBIOS program. It will detect the chipset of your motherboard, the motherboard manufacturer and many other information about the bios and motherboard. You can also find CTBIOS in these sites:

www.tomshardware.com
www.windrivers.com

A suggestion I give you is to go to sites like www.tomshardware.com and download reviews of both video cards. This way you have concrete information (other than my humble opinion) to show the company. Other sites where you can find reviews of hardware are:

www.pcmagazine.com
www.cnet.com (not sure if it is .com, but give it a try)
www.zdnet.com

Yours,

Alex
Athena's Place: http://www.bhnet.com.br/~simonet

0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:clb4aces
ID: 1871915
you helped but i need info specific to the chips because
they are motherboard , not video cards.i checked toms and cant find a archive section or anything on old chips .
i checked the s3 site and cant find old stuff either except the pr notice in 1995/6/7. i need something to send to the warrenty company.

NOTE: THE VIRGE ONLY GOES TO 24 BIT COLOR; BUT THE TRIO GOES TO 32 BIT. [rt click desktop/properties/settings]
this leads me to think the trio is better. there are 3 virge chips i think and more trio 64. but i cant find out how many.s3 wont let me contact a person,i just get auto emails.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:clb4aces
ID: 1871916
comparison of two motherboards per ctpci.exe
tvx[p54]chipset. 5 items same
s3 trio motherboard missing 3 items
creative labs device=0002h     no pci-int  
creative labs device=7002h     no pci-int
intel corporation device=piix3 function 2:usb controller rev o1h int 0= irq 11

note:i ran startup f1 setup usb/ now intel above is the same
on both mb

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LVL 15

Expert Comment

by:simonet
ID: 1871917
Have you tried doing it with CTBIOS? The program I pointed you to originally was CTBIOS, not CTPCI.

>THE VIRGE ONLY GOES TO 24 BIT COLOR;
>BUT THE TRIO GOES TO 32 BIT

That depends on the driver you are using. The Virge is also capable of going up to 32-bit color depth in 800x600. Make sure you are using the latest drivers for the video adapter.

Have you tried looking for information on PC Magazine's lab, as I suggested?

Alex
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:clb4aces
ID: 1871918
the ctbios just gives bios, other program [same site] gives all mb chip info.

pc mag requires a credit card to search
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:clb4aces
ID: 1871919
video driver has not been updated by packard bell.
s3 recommends not to change to their generic driver.
[for virge]
0
 

Expert Comment

by:kenb030297
ID: 1871920
The limiting factor that jumps out at me is the 2 meg video ram. Generally 2 meg of ram will give 16 or 32 bit color at 640x480 but will drop lower (to 256 or 16 bit) at 800x600. There is no way around this beyond adding more ram. It has nothing to do with the S3 chip. 4 Meg cards can easily be found these days for under $30 ... Your card was probably a 1 meg version with a pair of added chips to bring it up to 2 meg meaning it's full and cannot be expanded. If you have sockets open on the motherboard then add more video RAM. It's cheap. The last upgrade I did along those lines ran $10 for one meg. dealer cost.
With the card built into the motherboard, you still should be able to add a card and just use the new output - possibly disabling the onboard one in BIOS or perhaps by a jumper change. I've done numerous Packard Bells in my shop that just accept a second video card happily without a problem. Be sure to tell Windows to disable the old adapter however or you may run into some problems.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:clb4aces
ID: 1871921
i understand about a cheap replacement.
THATS NOT THE QUESTION
i need to prove to warrenty company that the trio 64+ is NOT
better than the virge;; so they will put the correct motherboard in my computer.

then i can do the new video card.

see my additional notes on motherboard
0
 

Expert Comment

by:kenb030297
ID: 1871922
I'm sorry I bothered trying to help. You already had all the information you needed in your original question in that case. EDO is better than fast page, and it makes no sense that a company would release a new but inferior chip two years later. Two years of technological improvements makes the trio obviously inferior.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:clb4aces
ID: 1871923
sorry i upset you.

i need something official that i can print and send in.
i told the company what i posted, but they want proof.
my searches havnt found because virge/trio are so old.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:clb4aces
ID: 1871925
drinkin thats the file that gave me the chip data i quoted
0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:RoadWarrior
ID: 1871926
I thought the virge had 3d functions like a texture map cache?
0
 

Expert Comment

by:kenb030297
ID: 1871927
Try writing to support@s3.com  . Tell them the problem and ask them to put dates in writing. That should suffice.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:clb4aces
ID: 1871928
s3.com sends back a auto email.
also no help from email address listed in auto reply
0
 
LVL 6

Expert Comment

by:kschang
ID: 1871929
Very simple: VirGE has 3D capabilities (used in Diamond Stealth 3D), where as the Trio 64 does NOT have 3D (used in the older Diamond Stealth 64's).
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:daisuke
ID: 1871930
Basically kschang has hit it on the head.  The Virge is a first generation 3D card.  The Trio is strictly a 2D card.  While the 3D capabilities of the Virge are not spectacular (it has been referred to as the 3D deccelerator by some gaming magazines), its 2D capabilities are quite good.  Nonetheless, the Virge does allow Direct 3D-based games to run that would not run at all under the Trio
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:clb4aces
ID: 1871931
thanks daisuke/kschang i called them and they are reviewing
kschang ask for points. if they dont reqire
an official document i will approve

thanks all its been a education

now if i can get a $25 newer vidiocard,but i dont know what for yet.i tried a creative blaster riva/tnt pci.
but they couldnt get the onboard video to quit interfering.

note; kenb have you done a pack bell platinum 2240  mb 685
200mmx .. some pack bells work/some dont
0
 
LVL 6

Accepted Solution

by:
kschang earned 200 total points
ID: 1871932
If they need "official" docs, just ask them to look in the support site for, say Diamond Multimedia (http://www.diamondmm.com). The models I mentioned above are based on the respective chipsets (the specs are SOMEWHERE in that website), and their "trade-in price" (Diamond takes trade-ins for ANY BRAND, no kidding) should tell you which one is better. :-)

Stealth 3D is not a bad card. It's just a bad 3D card. :-)  Noticed that the ad reads "fast graphics... plus 3D!"  Nothing about fast 3D. :-)

0
 

Expert Comment

by:kenb030297
ID: 1871933
I haven't paid attention to model numbers. All I've done is try a card and most of the time they work fine. Your problem with the Riva chipset might be that they want a dedicated IRQ in BIOS while the lesser video cards don't care. I did a Compaq today which took a second video card fine except that the system would not warm boot with video - it required a cold boot. Just mentioning this because sometimes there are minor anomalies. The Compaq, like yours, had onboard video and also an S3.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:clb4aces
ID: 1871934
they are sending new motherboard

THANKS ALL
0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:RoadWarrior
ID: 1871935
Awwww I said it first (pout)
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:clb4aces
ID: 1871936
road i just see a question that i guess was the answer but didnt give me enough to argue with the company.

if you want points i will give to you also
i think linda at social area can do it
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