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New HD, moving Win98, system speed

Posted on 1999-07-29
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I just installed a new HD on my NEC PC, pentium II, 192RAM. Every thing is hooked up inside the case correctly.  Both HDDs are on the primary IDE controller.  The newer HD is a 13G drive, the original is 8G.  I have the larger drive set up as a slave and the orginal is set as Master.  Should I put windows on the new drive?  I would like to do this but I am not sure how to copy only windows--it seems like the system would run faster on the larger--emptier--drive I can't seem to make it work (and what do I back up to preserve the windows system and not get other files?

Currently, my system runs slower, and I seem to not have access to about a gig or so on the other drive as well.  In properties of windows explorer, the capacity of D: lists as
13,009,371,136 bytes--12.1GB  where is all that memory?

How do I INCREASE instead of decrease the system speed?
Do I need to change the drives so that the 13 is the master and the current 8 is the slave?
If so, how do I get windows to run on the new drive as it does now (same configuration, icons, desktop, favorites, IE5, and so on.)
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Question by:Malachi
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16 Comments
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:jg733
ID: 1676079
How much slower is your system running? Is the new drive a slower drive? (like 5400 rpm vs 7200) On what drive is your virtual memory?
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Expert Comment

by:blitzx
ID: 1676080
Well you could change the start HD on your PC going in to the bios and changing the boot sequence, but you will need to install the windows 98 in to the Second Hard Drive as well.

And you can make your PC run faster if you defragment your Hard Disk with the Microsoft Defragmenter, also it could run slower if you have a lot of data in you HD, per example if your HD is 8 GB and you have ocuppied about 4 GB of space that will make your PC run slower, I recommend you to have only the windows and soft programs in your 1st HD the hard applications(Corel 8, Autocad 14, etc) in your 2nd HD that will make your PC run faster.

I hope this help
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LVL 2

Expert Comment

by:gangajn
ID: 1676081
The drive that you wish to run windows from should be the PRIMARY drive on the first IDE channel. Therefore, if you wish to make the new drive the boot drive, then use a disk utility like EZ Drive to make your new drive bootable and to copy everything from the old drive to the new one. The new drive will now become C and the old drive will become D ( since it will be set as the slave ).
As said before, the more information that is stored on a drive, the slower the drive becomes.Therefore ,if you wish to keep the boot-up drive as fast as possible , when you have finished setting up your system as described above, use FDISK to make D an extended patition with one logical drive.Format the drive. Then uninstall as many programs as you possibly can from C and run disk defragmenter. Reinstall all these programs to the D drive so that there is more space on C.
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MATTCEI earned 300 total points
ID: 1676082
Your capacity listing is correct.The size difference is due to the two ways a 'KB' is counted: BIOS calls it 1024 bytes,drive manufacturers call it 1000 (makes the drive sound larger - I think this was started by the same guy that measures monitor screens).The difference becomes more obvious as drives get larger.

Both drives probably have the same seek speeds,spin rate,and data transfer rate;so changing to the 13GB probably won't speed anything up,but to do so:

-Make a Startup Diskette (Control Panel - Add/Remove Programs)

-My Computer - D: - Properties - Format - Copy System Files Only; or in a DOS prompt: SYS D:

-From a DOS prompt in Windows,from C:,type: XCOPY C:\ D:\/S/E/V/H/R/K/C/Y  This will clone your C: to D:

-Swap your Master/Slave assignments on the drives,re-detect them in BIOS.

-Boot from the Startup Diskette,run Fdisk,option 2,C:

You'll gain a little more speed if you make each hard drive a master on it's own IDE controller.
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Author Comment

by:Malachi
ID: 1676083
To ig733:  My system runs slower (that I have noticed) in the following ways.  Windows reveal the generic windows file icons for a second before changing into the appropriate one. Like in the control panels window, icon display has noticably slowed.  I ran a game from CD which, before I added the new drive did well, but when I installed it on the D: it was considerably worse in regards to gameplay, screens took longer to load, skipping when scrolling--things that did NOT happen before I added the drive.
Also, Outlook Express runs slower, it takes longer for it to think about opening folders, save files, browse for folders etc.  

I know the new drive is a 5400rpm, but I do not know where to go to find the speed in rpm and Mhz of the original HD.

Yeah--Virtual memory--it is on drive C:  I figure that 10G of virtual memory would vastly increase my system speed, but How do I change the drive it accessess?
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LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:MATTCEI
ID: 1676084
"I figure that 10G of virtual memory would vastly increase my system speed" - Actually,the trick here is to avoid ever having to use virtual memory by having enough real memory.When the system is forced to use data from the hard drive instead of RAM things really slow down.

As for slowness after adding the new drive: Try putting them on separate controllers as I mentioned.Also make sure the 'DMA' box is checked in the properties of both in Device Manager.
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LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:teesib
ID: 1676085
Try to buy a IDE Cable and remove Smaller harddrive
to Secondary IDE and Auto detect in bios.

It will good for diffrent mode of Haddisk speed and size.
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LVL 14

Expert Comment

by:smeebud
ID: 1676086
Mattcie,
 From all I've tried and read,
XCOPY can't make a clone.
Will you tell me where to find this documented.

Thanks a lot.

Regards,
Bud
http://www.geocities.com/~budallen/
Bud's Win95 Win98 Tips and Troubleshooter
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LVL 25

Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 1676087
Malachi, I've read through your initial post and all of the responses and then your last remark, and given that you already have data on the "D" I would suggest that you do not attempt to Xcopy or move your windows 98 installation to the "D" drive as it might result in a crash from which you might not recover. Additionally, I would not employ DMA on either drive unless you are certain that both drives support DMA along with your motherboard, as this too may prevent your system from booting.

Given the amount of problems you are having with the system, including performance, you may want to consider setting up and partitioning those drives and reinstalling Windows 98. This will give you the opportunity to clean out any residual past problems as well as creating s small partition for the swap file. In turn, this will reduce fragmentation on the drive where your programs are installed.

Dennis
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Author Comment

by:Malachi
ID: 1676088
What is wrong with Xcopy?  I tried this (without erasing my smaller drive) and the system works fine as far as the last 15 mins--what should I worry about?  and how can I see if everything is in order in the computer?

What files does Xcopy miss?  do I need them?
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LVL 14

Expert Comment

by:smeebud
ID: 1676089
Long filenames for one thing.
Check to see it they are all there.

See:
How do I clone/backup a hard disk under Windows?
http://web1.aimnet.com/~jnavas/tech/clone_copy.htm

Who knows.

Regards,
Bud
http://www.geocities.com/~budallen/
Bud's Win95 Win98 Tips and Troubleshooter
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LVL 25

Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 1676090
Malachi, in addition to Buds post, check this URL as it applies to Xcopy and its use:


http://www.pcguide.com/art/xcopy.htm


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LVL 14

Expert Comment

by:smeebud
ID: 1676091
I was looking for that Dennis,

Malachi,
 An excerpt from that article;

"People tend to assume that if they try something and it works for
them--or appears to work--that it always works. Further, most often when a short file name
alias is swapped, there is no visible effect on the system so there are no tangible symptoms.
But once in a while, Xcopy will cause an alias distortion that will lead to system problems.
Sometimes these can occur many weeks or months after the Xcopy was done.

Regards,
Bud
http://www.geocities.com/~budallen/
Bud's Win95 Win98 Tips and Troubleshooter
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Expert Comment

by:MATTCEI
ID: 1676092
Gentlemen - this procedure works.I guarantee it.

"Will you tell me where to find this documented" None that I know of.The XCOPY32 help file pretty much explains all the switches.

"I would not employ DMA..." You can safely test this on your cloned drive,keeping the original offline for backup.But if you're running a Pentium-II mainboard,you're well beyond the versions of boards that had a problem with this.

"how can I see if everything is in order in the computer?"
"What files does Xcopy miss?"
Comparing the amount of space used on both drives after the clone may not work due to minimum-cluster-size differences;however: you can use a compare utility (plenty of freeware versions available on the NET,one I know of is DIRCOMP - but since it's DOS you may have to manually compare some aliased long filenames - see below),or simply do a DIR/S/A on both drives - should show the same number and total size of all files,minus Win386.SWP.This is the only file (it's the Windows swap file) that won't be copied (it's the reason for the /C switch),but it will be automatically re-created when you boot the cloned drive.

"Long filenames for one thing" Not true.Remember,this is done THROUGH Windows,where XCOPY is actually XCOPY32.Long filenames are supported.All files are copied using thier true name.The only glitch that can occur is when a long filename has been moved on the source drive (as with Defrag) before the clone is done: the alias identifier (~X) may change in number,but this doesn't amount to anything since no self-respecting program would access a file using it's alias.The only time you'd even notice this would be in a DOS file compare utility - but even then it would be obvious,since the 'missing' file would appear immediately after the first mention with its alias number changed by one.If,however,you want to straighten this out: simply clone the target drive back to the source,then back again to the target.
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Author Comment

by:Malachi
ID: 1676093
Thank you for your continued vigilance and expertise--mattei, smeebud, and dew_associates--and everyone else who has chimed in about this.  I have gotten very good suggestions from you all so thank you thank you thank you.

SO far so good though with the cloning procedure.  Now how do I de-install things from c: and not from d: and so on? I think the computer searches for ALL associated files for a program on an uninstall--any answers?  
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LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:MATTCEI
ID: 1676094
If you don't need the 8GB right away,leave it as-is as a backup (or re-clone to it every so often,using it as a permanent backup device - costs less than a tape drive.Just add the XCOPY command to a .BAT file).Or just re-format it.
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