adding a second hard drive

My system already has two devices on IDE (cd-rom & hd) and there are two others that I think communicate through the scsi card.  There is a free IDE port on my mother board, but i'm not sure if I can attach a hd to it because when I installed my second cd-rom my bios would not recognize it.  
So, how can I add a second hd?
myorkAsked:
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MATTCEIConnect With a Mentor Commented:
Thanks,guys.
Re-posting as answer based on "pull the SCSI card and try again"
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leflonCommented:
i would put the two hd (thats right?) on th efirst EIDE(?) port. don't forget to set one to slave (jumper).
the cd rom goes to the second EIDE controller.
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kschangCommented:
Did you ENABLE the secondary IDE port on the mainboard through the CMOS?
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xemaCommented:
myork
Do as kschang says, as for the comment from leflon it depends on your motherboard, on newer boards Win95 doesn't recgnizes the second IDE chanel unless you run a patch, so if you are reinstalling Win from the CD the connection will be lost and the installation will abort.
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OttaCommented:
> i would put the two hd (thats right?) on the first
> EIDE(?) port. don't forget to set one to slave (jumper).
> the cd rom goes to the second EIDE controller.

I would set each disk as "master" on each IDE port,
and connect the CD-ROM as "slave" on the port
which is less-used while running Windows.
Since it's more likely that you will be doing simultaneous
disk(!) I/O than simultaneous disk-and-CD I/O, it makes
sense to "separate" the two disks onto two separate ports.

Enter BIOS-setup mode, and "auto-detect" your IDE drives.
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MATTCEICommented:
Ditto to what Otta said.

As for the BIOS not seeing the CD drive: most don't.This is normal.
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rajaganapathyCommented:
Just Look for the proper jumper settings in the HD and connect it in the secondary IDE port. It should work properly.

If that doesn't work connect the second HD as slave in place of the CD ROM along with HD1. And connect the CD ROM in the secondary IDE port.

Try out and feed back me
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leflonCommented:
mmhhh, rajaganapathy
taking other peoples comment and make them your answer, not a very fine move.
if your answer works the points should belong to otta.
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OttaCommented:
Excuse me, rajaganapathy.
I realize that you are new to Experts-Exchange (7/04/99)

You took comments from OTTA and from LEFLON,
and posted them as an "answer".

That is very inappropriate etiquette on E-E.

If LEFLON's suggestion works,
then the points belong to LEFLON, not to you.
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MATTCEICommented:
rajaganapathy - please post comments only,not answers,until the questioner requests you to post an answer.
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myorkAuthor Commented:
Im sorry my problem seems to be a little more complex than that.  
I put the 2nd hd into my computer on the second ide port jumpered to master and it was not detected.  Then I tried it as slave and it still was not detected.  I my bios setup it showed my hd and cd-rom as primary master and slave respectively.  My origional  cd-rom was shown as secondary master, but it is not plugged directly into the port.  A cable runs from the cd-rom into my scsi card.  The port seems to be free but I don't know if it is active on my motherboard.  Is there any jumpers on my motherboard that I need to adjust to make the second ide port work?

as for putting it in place of my second cd-rom as slave to the hd, that does not work either, and then my cdrom would not work.

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myorkAuthor Commented:
XEMA
can you tell me more about the second ide not being recognized.  I am trying to install it so I can Install Linux on it instead of a partition so I don't think the patch idea would work, but I have no knowlede in this area, maybe I can't install a second hd.  My mother board is not very new (1997) what is your opinion?
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jatcanCommented:
Sorry guys but ANY atapi cdrom will drag down the Harddrive if it is on the same IDE channel.Period. Set your harddrives to the first IDE as master and slave respectively( with the faster HD as Master) then put the cdrom all by itself on the secondary IDE as Secondary Master. The only time you should have a cdrom on the same IDE as a hd is when you have NO CHOICE, for instance I got 2 harddrives on the primary IDE, master and slave, on the second IDE I got my cdrom(Secondary Master) and my cdrw(Secondary Slave). This is the best setup for this combination of components. Period. If you argue with this then, I have to doubt your hardware knowledge. And yes I have tried all kinds of variations, the benchmarks do not lie.


J
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myorkAuthor Commented:
jatcan:
The cdrom installed as slave to my hd is a cd recordable and the technical support people with sony  told me that since I will usually be writting from the hard disk having as slave would be the best. Is this true?


besides I can't seem to get any device to answer on the secondary ide port, that's my real problem.
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myorkAuthor Commented:
jatcan:
The cdrom installed as slave to my hd is a cd recordable and the technical support people with sony  told me that since I will usually be writting from the hard disk having as slave would be the best. Is this true?


besides I can't seem to get any device to answer on the secondary ide port, that's my real problem.
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OttaCommented:
> since I will usually be writing from the hard disk
> having as slave would be the best. Is this true?

When copying from a hard-drive to a CD-RW,
it's best to keep the two devices on different(!) IDE ports,
so that I/O to one device won't affect I/O to the other.

> I can't seem to get any device to answer on the
> secondary ide port, that's my real problem.

Enter BIOS-setup, and be sure that the secondary IDE channel is "enabled".
Then, use 'auto-detect IDE drives' in BIOS-setup mode.



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xemaCommented:
myork:
WIn 95 has problems with the 440 intel chips, the motherboard will aknowledge the CD on the secondary IDE chanel, during installation of windows several drivers are installed, during this part of the installation windows will lose comunicaion with the secondary IDE chanel until a patch is run and windows will again stablish comunication with the secondary IDE chanel.

I agree with otta, you need to enter the BIOS and be shure that the secondary IDE chanel is set as enabled, also the CDRW on a different chanel is the way to go even as jatcan points about the CD slowing your HD, the lost of the secondary IDE chanel in Windows is a nigthmare when you need to reinstall
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myorkAuthor Commented:
these seem like the logical steps to take when troublshooting the hd, but i still don't quite know how my computer is set up the secondary ide port is entirely free, but the cdrom show up in bios under the secondary ide port as master? how do you think this is possible.  Have you ever heard of such a setup before?

If i can't find out how to get this working i want to try to get points to the people who seem to have shown interest in helping me.  Thanks xema and otta you seem to have addressed my problem the most directly sofar but it seems that my problem may not be able to be solved, but i still would like to know if anyone has any idea of how my computer may be set up.
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MATTCEICommented:
We appreciate your offer,myork;but I'm sure everyone here will agree that it's not necessary to offer points until the problem is solved.To that end: let's make sure that BIOS is seeing the secondary IDE port,then let's see if Windows is also.

-I don't see where you have confirmed that the secondary IDE port is not disabled in BIOS.Could you verify this please? It should be an obvious entry that probably says 'Secondary IDE Port' with options that include 'Disable'.If you have a section called 'Integrated Peripherals',that's where it would be.

-After comfirming the above (or confirming that there is in fact no such entry);add a device to it.If you have already gotten a second HD,use that.If not,use a CD.Some HDs allow jumpering as 'Single',as well as 'Master' and 'Slave' - if you have this option,use 'Single'.CDs only give you the choice of 'Master' or 'Slave' - in this case jumper as 'Master'.Boot the system and look at the BIOS report of devices found (get ready to hit the Pause key;if the Windows logo covers it hit ESC to clear it).Does the device you added to the Secondary IDE channel show in the report? If not,pull the SCSI card and try again.

Once we can confirm that BIOS is seeing the device (a necessary first step),we'll go on to see if/why Windows doesn't see it.
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myorkAuthor Commented:
Well I finally broke down and called (and payed for) technical support, and I found out that my system is setup so that the cdrom and floppy communicate to the computer through some type of modified scisi card, and that this card took the place of my secondary ide port, so the second port is disabled and my cd rom only  works though this port.  I guess I cannnot install a second hd after all.  Thank you all for your ideas.  If you want points my offer above stands, But I have never split points before so if you could tell me what you want I'll see what I can do.  Thanks for you time and knowledge
THANKS,
myork
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OttaCommented:
MATTCEI, please post an answer to claim 100% of the points
(I don't mind) so that MYORK can accept it,
and convert this question to a PAQ.

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xemaCommented:
MATTCEI:
I agree with Otta.

Cheers
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