FP2000 is annoying me.

Editing a web in FP2k which is also driven by a bunch of cgi-scripts
that generate various datafiles. Which means that every time i publish
i get tons of "The file XXX is on the server, but not in the FP web,
should FP deletet the file?". How do i tell FP "NO, NEVER EVER delete
any file from the server, ONLY bother with files created in FP"
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j2Asked:
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
J2, not certain how you publish it to the server. But if you have the FTP connection software, you can go to the FTP site of the server and use the FTP connection software to insert/add or delete/remove those databases files XXX.

FP2K will not delete those files when you publish it on the next time.   You can access this by FTP connection software.

pslh
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j2Author Commented:
Sorry, not an option.

FP queries me for every file it doesnt recognize, and even defaults to "yes" in the dialog box for "remove this file"?

FP97 / 98 didnt do this.
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
j2, if the server supported FP2K, which means it should have to be configured by purchase of an FP server extension from microsoft and installed in their server.

Then if the user use FP2K to publish the FP2K personal web to the FTP, they can automatically update the FTP site by remove old files.

However, in case the FTP server do not have such an FP2K server extension, the users publich the FP2K web , the update function of FP2K is actually disabled or mal-functioned.

If I do not overlook the question, e.g. one of my ISP server do not have such FP2K server extension. When I publish FP2K web folder to it, it will prompt to ask your said options.
But no matter "yes" or "no", the old files are still in the FTP site (this can be counterchecked with the FTP connection software).

Thus, please check with your server administrator if it has such FP2K server extension or not. If yes they have, then the update function of FP2K is working to remove your old files.
Otherwise, those old files will still be there but not directly linked with your new web pages. The new files of same name will be renamed by another one.  (You can use FTP connection software to inspect this. )

I have your same experience, it is now safe for me.
   
As far as I know, not much existing ISP servers has this FP2K server extension. You can check with Ms the recognised FP2K compatible ISP in your location.
 
pslh
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j2Author Commented:
Now i am lost.

The server doesnt have FP-extensions (never will, becuase i feel it is evil *lol*)

So, you are saying that when i am publishing a web with the FP ftp mechanism i should press "yes, delete this file from the server" and the file will still be there?

Once again, what i need is a way to tell Frontpage 2000 that it is NEVER okay to delete a file on the server. Modify a file must (naturally) be allowed, but NEVER deletion of one.
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j2Author Commented:
or maybe an example would help.

With frontpage i have created the pages

a, b, c and d and published them to the server. However, next time i update the site with frontpage, a CGI script will have created the files x,y and z on the server. So every time i update the web, FP will ask "FIle X found on server but not in FP web, should i delete the file from the server?"

And thats what i want to avoid.
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
j2, I can perceive your feeling because I had that too before.

FP2K has imported the automatically update function (NEW) where FP98 do not have.  The intention is the user do not have to go back to their FTP site and use FTP connection software to manage the files there. It saves times and facilitates the web-site handling.

FP2K will check your FTP web site everytime you published.
<<a, b, c and d and published them to the server. However, next time i update the site with frontpage, a CGI script will have created the files x,y and z on the server. So every time i update the web, FP will ask "FIle X found on server but not in FP web, should i delete the file from the server?" >>,

Provided the server has purchased the FP2K server extension from Microsoft and be licensed eg. Compaq.  Their home page will be granted with a FP2K logo from Microsoft.

In this server, for your example. <<asked?>> you replied "Yes", then FP2K in your computer will manage the FTP and delete the File X.

For the time being, most of the ISP server do not purchase this FP2K server extension from Microsoft. However, they may tell you that you can use FP2K to publish to their server without problem.

Yes, there is not much problem but the "automatically update function of FP2K" was mal-functioned.

I.E., in such server, for your example. <<asked?>> you replied "Yes", then FP2K in your computer will manage the FTP and delete the File X. But they cannot execute in fact. The File X is still be there.  You have to go back to use the old method using the FTP connection wizard of software (third parties) to manually delete the File X.

Otherwise FP2K will continuously ask you as it has detected the file X there in your next upload.

Can you get what I meant?

Actually I like this new update function of FP2K. However my ISP tell me that they don't want to buy the FP2K server extension (reason? not unknown. Perhaps Ms would like to franchise this business again.)

Thus, this function cannot be carried out in my ISP server.  Or I have to join those FP2K ISP as M$ said.
pslh
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j2Author Commented:
The server is my own server, so i do pretty much what i want with it, but i will NOT install the FP2000 Extensions for it. So the question remains, How on earth do i tell FP2k to "leave those frigging files alone" :)
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
J2, <<How on earth do i tell FP2k to "leave those frigging files alone" :)>> This is the buy point of M$.

pslh
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Paul RiskoCommented:
****Warning****   I do not recommend uploading fpy2k with a ftp program (ws_ftp). I have lost fonts! If you talk to Microsoft they only recomend you publish though FrontPage 2K....It has MANY glitches. Another glitch is the setting of your browser. They should be set at "default". I had the parental controls set for "high'....NO uploading with that setting.
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j2Author Commented:
And that answered my question in what respect?
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SiteSeeCommented:
That's easy!

Open your web...right-click any file you don't want to include when Publishing....select Properties....select Workgroups....check the box at the bottom that says "Don't include this file when publishing"...
That's it...
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
SiteSee, your method is only manually not to publish certain files.

However, J2 is asking for automatic update and automatic delete and refresh all his folder and files in the web.

Am I right, J2?

If that is so, my above comments is still the answer but you don't like to accept it.

pslh

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j2Author Commented:
Wrong way around.

What i need is to tell FP200

"Do NOT EVER delete a file on the server"

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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
J2, have you found any files in your server that was deleted by FP2K?  
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j2Author Commented:
Yes, they get deleted, if i accidentally click "yes" when FP asks me "The file XXXX is present on the webserver, but not in the local web, should i delete it?"

and there are now 1753 files in the server that isnt in the local web. This means FP2000 asks me 1753 times _every_ time i press publish.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Essentially PSLH is correct. If you do not apply the FP Extensions (and you apparently won't for your own reasons) then your stuck, as FP only knows that (A) your publishing to an FP site and (B) that the files that you located are not part of what it sees as what you've published. Not very difficult to understand really!
Dennis
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dew_associatesCommented:
j2, give me the exact error code or dialogue that comes up and maybe I can find an edit for this.
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j2Author Commented:
dew: FP98 didnt have this annoying behaviour. And the exact errormessage prolly wouldnt give you much, since i am using the swedish version.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Sorry, but without as much info as possible, I can't help. I would try and duplicate the issue and then resolve it, but that can't happen without info.
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j2Author Commented:
1. Start a new web
2. Create some files and publish
3. Now add a file to the server _WITHOUT_ using FP2000.
4. Update the web in FP2000
5. Publish web
6. Watch the message "The file [name of file created in step 3] is on your webserver, but not on your local web, Shall i delete it?"
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dew_associatesCommented:
j2, there must be something in either your version or your settings (or even at the site)

I took and existing site here that we maintain and uploaded it to a friends site that does not have FP extensions and then checked it.

I then changed the site by reducinc its volume of pages etc by 50% and the uploaded it again. No problem.
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j2Author Commented:
You are missing the point.

ADD a file to the server between the publishing. Do this WITHOUT using FP2000.
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dew_associatesCommented:
J2, I haven't missed the point at all. If there are extra files left at the site, regardless of how they got there, FP2000 should provide me with a reference telling me there are x files present that are not referenced in the pages. This information is right in the FP resource kit. FP97/98 was not designed to scour the website looking for extraneous files. By uploading one or more files with another app, regardless of what type of app, and the republish FP2000 will cause this problem, but that's because it is following its design code.
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j2Author Commented:
ANd that is th eproblem. Fp2000 DOES see those files, and for EVERY one of them it asks me "Should i delete them from the server?" There is a "yes" "yes to all" "no" and "cancel" buttons. Not even a "No to all".

So i need a workaround.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Unfortunately the only workaround that I can see is to publish locally and the FTP the files up to the server.
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j2Author Commented:
So i guess the bottom line here is that FP2000 is incapable of handling a site that "grows" dynamically?

Ahwell, the swedish version also has a bug which makes it impossible to type @ anywhere in FP2000 :)
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dew_associatesCommented:
J2, have you tried this?

In Page view, right-click the table of contents to modify, and then click Table of Contents Properties on the shortcut menu.

Select the Recompute table of contents when any other page is edited and uncheck the box.


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j2Author Commented:
No joy.
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
J2, I thought you have to elaborate your detail procedure and your web/server environment (different Pc?, location, uploading connection method) so that Dennis can study or replicate similiar case.
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j2Author Commented:
pslh: scroll back, the procedure is there. The behaviour is the same in the US version of FP2k i discovered today. Whenever FP2k sees a file on your target server, that isnt present in its "own" list-over-files-in-this-web it will "helpfully" offer to delete it.
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
J2, I did noted you've pointed the brief procedure (1-6). But would like to ask if you can further elaborate your procedure and environment so that we can perceive or visualise your situation.      pslh
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j2Author Commented:
Why elaborate? my brief procedure is replicable on any server (even with FP extension on a Apache server, tried that one today).

What fp does when you press publish is

1. Connect
2. Read contents of directory
3. Match all files present on server with local contents.

4. Check if there are remote files not present locally, if so offer to delete them.

5. If local file does not exist or is newer then content of remote server. Update remote file.
---------------------

However, i noticed that FP2k does NOT "see" either softlinks, or contents of softlinked directories. (tried on Solaris and linux, running Netscape server, Apache and roXen). So if i stick my "sacred" files in a directory and softlink that directory FP leaves them alone. But that of cource means that i cannot update the static HTML files in those dirs.
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LAW030798Commented:
Since you say the softlinks work...

I think you *may* be able to work around your problem by writing the dynamically created files to a subweb, then not including the subweb in your publish command.

FrontPage has the "include subwebs" box in the publishing options, so if the dynamic files were in the subweb, and the subweb was not included...

You might also try - although this would take more work, I believe - publishing your main web to a subdirectory, not the root (if this is a possible option), and have the dynamic files created in another subdirectory of the root.  This way, FrontPage wouldn't even know the other files exist.

I don't think there's any way to tell FP not to ask about odd files it finds, so some sort of workaround will have to do.  I've searched the registry for possible keys that might apply, the FP help, and the microsoft support site without success (as I'm sure you have, too!)

Have no idea if any of this will work (no time to verify), but at least I understand that you want your "non-Frontpage" files left alone, without being nagged by FrontPage to delete them.

Good Luck!

Lowell
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j2Author Commented:
Your answer didnt really _answer_ my question. But you did understand the problem. And Yes, sticking files in symlinked directories works.. It will however be a problem on servers that doesnt support "symlinks out of the 'web space'".

a comment tho, about your "You might also try - although this would take more work, I believe - " comment. FP will see those files. It does a recursive scan of all dirs it sees. It really bugs me ;)

But this does raise another question" Why doesnt FP see symlink as "valid files" it doesnt see them at all really. But lets not waste time on that subject. ;)
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