Dual Monitor Problems

Okay, I have a PIII 500 w/ 256meg of ram running Win98SE.. I have a Creative Riva TNT2 32meg AGP.. I have a Hitachi 21in .22 monitor.. i just purchased a second Digital Research 21in monitor and a cheap IOMagic video card (8meg Permedia 2) as a secondary... all I really wanted to was extend my desktop and a view problems came up...

now when i try to enter a game on my primary video card (AGP is set in my bios, so dont worry), It'll try to init OpenGL on my Riva TNT2 and the game (Halflife w/ CounterStrike addon) says that my video card does not support OpenGL.. (ofcourse, when i disable the permedia 2 in the hardware profile everything is fine).. i want to know if it's possible to run OpenGL on the primary video card and have the second card still in standard windows (on a compiler perhaps, etc.) if its the video card ill get rid of it and get a second TNT2, i just didnt want to spend another $200 if i didnt need to, and i still dont think i do...

another problem is now, when i go into display properties with the permedia 2 enabled in the hardware profile, my mouse seems to disappear, odd eh? Thanks
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messiahAsked:
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dew_associatesConnect With a Mentor Commented:
Messiah, I'll refer to the entire dialogue above in posting this answer, which you can accept. I will then distribute points to cyberbum as you wish.

I spoke with reps from both Award (now Phoenix) and AMI earlier today, as well as our tech rep at ATI regarding multiple monitor support, OpenGL etc and this issue has been widely discussed. Both OpenGL and DirectX and Direct3D support multiple monitors "provided that there is direct video resource support in the bios".

Since multiple monitor support was developed between M$ and ATI originally, I went to ATI first. Their conversation was lengthy, but the bottom line was that you can get to video cards to work without bios support, but accelerated options would be unlikely, and with some cards you may have to turn it off entirely to get two cards to coexist as they are trying to access the same resources. Award and AMI echoed the same comments.
Dennis
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dew_associatesCommented:
Unfortunately some of the permedia cards have been problems, and no support for open GL doesn't make it any easier.

It sounds like you have a driver conflict though, when you mention the mouse.

Have you tried downloading the latest Win98 approved driver for the PCI video card?
Dennis
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messiahAuthor Commented:
Actually I have. I updated my drivers for each device and updated my motherboard bios to the latest revision. Nothing seems to help, it's very odd. I've taken out my permedia card and am going to return it tonight and get a new card. Any suggestions would be nice.

I would also like to know if anyone has had any luck installing two video cards and successfully played an OpenGL game in one monitor while the other was still in Windows98 Desktop.

I may just purchase a cheap Voodoo3 1000 or Savage card as they are extremely inexpensive and Glide support wouldn't hurt as my TNT2 lacks in that aspect.

Thanks
Danny
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dew_associatesCommented:
I would opt for any of the cards that had good manufacturer support and ones that you were familiar with. We use ATI most of the time as their support is so good, but if your familiar with Voodoo, then run with them.
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mheinCommented:
I'd also think about just getting a video adapter with dual heads.  It makes it a lot easier
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messiahAuthor Commented:
I thought about that mhein, but it seems the G400 is rather expensive and I really am trying to stay away from another high-end card. I already have the TNT 2 Ultra for now, I'll wait till V00d00 4 comes out :)

I figure the lowest Voodoo3 will suit my needs - if anyone knows of any other lowend cards that have good multi-monitor support (especially with a TNT2 Ultra) please tell me.

No reason to spend $250 on a card to view source code and read e-mail eh?
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dew_associatesCommented:
If that's the case try one of the ATI cards.
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messiahAuthor Commented:
So, I guess for credit for the answered question will be the one who tells me exactly how to get OpenGL running fine on one desktop while the other is still Windows without conflict. :)
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dew_associatesCommented:
Messiah, the question is as originally asked. You can't have two conflicting cards in the system and expect it to run. If one card supports OpenGL and the other does not, OpenGL won't run. This is why it errored before. If you run any video card with an Nvidia chipset the system will error unless you have fault tolerant drivers from the manufacturer.
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messiahAuthor Commented:
I don't see how that matters though. The two cards use two different resources. Why shouldn't one be able to use OpenGL while the other just uses standard DirectX?

I'm using the newest detonator drivers from Nvidia, and I'm sure they have nice support for dual monitors on their TNT2's.. im going to go get an ATI card and try my luck again.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Okay, a clarification. OpenGL is (for lack of a better term) a process and does not rely on anything but existing resources. So, if it finds the existing permedia card and does not see it's resources it will go to a fault. You trying to run separate dynamics on the same machine without the supporting resources.
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messiahAuthor Commented:
Okay, I just popped in an ATI Xpert 128 card.. 16meg version, i just bought it.. i loaded it up with the drivers and everything runs perfectly, the only problem is, the game still says that my computer doesn't support OpenGL (and both cards do openly support OpenGL)..


Odd, eh?
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dew_associatesCommented:
Do you have all of the OpenGL drivers installed on your system?
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dew_associatesCommented:
Double check those video drivers. The video card might support openGL, but the drivers must as well.
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messiahAuthor Commented:
All OpenGL support is there.. there's something messed up big time.. now my other monitor doesnt even init correctly.. it's all jumbled colours etc.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Do you have any dual monitor support in the motherboards Bios. Some motherboards will work even though there isn't any direct Bios support, but in some it won't. You may want to check the bios, and if there isn't any direct support for dual video cards, you may be able to flash upgrade it.
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messiahAuthor Commented:
My motherboard is flash upped to the latest revision. And no, there isn't direct support for it. But the multi-monitor does work fine someimes. It's so ODD!!! AHH!! im frustrated! All my second monitor gets is garbage now...
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dew_associatesCommented:
For a test switch monitors on the cards and see what happens.
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messiahAuthor Commented:
What do you mean switch? One is AGP and the other is PCI.
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messiahAuthor Commented:
I put the ATI on the closest PCI slot to the AGP slot and it is working now. I am afraid to test out OpenGL however, as that's how it keeps messing up.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Go ahead and try it. If it breaks we'll fix it, don't worry.
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cmarks55Commented:
Are you sure you uninstalled any software/drivers that were installed with the permidia card?

I use the dual-head Matrox G400 (only $165) because I couldn't get my Diamond Monster Fusion 16M and Integral Systems 8M FlashPoint 128 to work together.
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messiahAuthor Commented:
I'm almost to that point of just getting the G400, but the G400's OpenGL performance is not quite up to the TNT2 Ultra's. The permedia is out of my system.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Have you tested OpenGL yet?
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messiahAuthor Commented:
Yes, it only works when I disable multimonitor support first, then go into the game, then re-enable it when I alt-tab out of it... i guess i have to live with it until Win2K comes out :)
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dew_associatesCommented:
Not so sure that Win2K will resolve that. I think the issue may be Bios related. Since some of these games are obviously resource hungry, without the Bios and MB being able to set parameters and allocate initial resources, you're still going to have a problem.
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cyberbumCommented:
I think that OpenGL does not support hardware acceleration with multiple-monitors..I read it somewhere in a multi-monitor site on the web. Only Direct3d will allow hardware acceleration when multiple monitors are enabled.
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messiahAuthor Commented:
Yeah, it isn't at the bios level, it's at the OpenGL API level. It simply doesn't know what to do with multiple monitors/video cards. DirectX does support it but Direct3D looks shitty compared to OpenGL :)
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cyberbumCommented:
So do I get some points:)
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messiahAuthor Commented:
Well, I feel bad but no one has really answered my question, but I'm a nice guy. How do I distribute points?
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cyberbumCommented:
I don't really mind, I can take 100 points, the rest can be for dev_associates.
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messiahAuthor Commented:
Thanks for keeping up to date with the question, you really tried your best. And thanks for that information, that does put my mind to rest.

Cyberbum, dew did help out a lot more than you. and he also stayed on top of things even when i didnt respond, so dew just give Cyberbum 50 points, you keep the rest.

Thanks for the help guys.
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cyberbumCommented:
Ok no probs
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dew_associatesCommented:
Consider it done!
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