Internet Connect Sharing Problems

When running ICS and a cable modem, I know that you need 2 NICs. I have 2 installed, and they show up fine under the Device Manager, *but* the 2nd NIC doesn't light the LEDs or fire up the connection to the client. MS says it's a "common network problem" and should be diagnosed as such. I say "Fooey!" Two fold question then:

a) Is the 2nd NIC supposed to light the LEDs under normal operation? (I assume it is)
b) How can I diagnose/troubleshoot the 2nd NIC when it tests fine in Windows? (ie; How do I run ping tests selectively from the NIC that I want?)

I'll jack up the points if this gets out of hand. ;)
BoomtasticAsked:
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Boomtastic,
First, make certain that both of your Pc can be seen on the network neighborhood.

Second, make certain you have established correctly the ICS on both computers.

-------
I have assumed you at the First question both of the computer is linked on a good network connection.

Thus, try to check again on the second question and establishing it correctly.
>>>>>>>

On your second PC, try to check if you have installed the ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) too. If first PC with modem is using ICS as a host server, the second PC should not installed the ICS as a host server too.

If you have already installed ICS on your second PC, try to uninstall it, control panel, Add/Remove programs, window setup, unchecked the box for ICS and Click Apply and OK to uninstall it. Restart the computer.

You can create a ICS client floppy from first PC (the ICS host) and install at second PC as an ICS client.

Afterwards, at the second Pc (act as ICS client) create the DUN but go to the DUN at "My Computer", click into its properties, Server Typers, [Advanced] , do not assign primary DNS, secondary DNS etc. Select the radio button:-
[x] Server assigned name server address.

Click OK and exit.

Restart your PC and check again. The first Pc being on power. Your second Pc is being logon. The first PC will assign an IP address for your second PC for connection to the Internet ISP server. This new IP address will be remembered by your second PC.  

Try online again for the second PC and then see if modem in first Pc is  disconnected once second PC has finished web-surfing and been disconnected the line on your second PC desktop.

--------
Let me know your progress.   pslh  
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dew_associatesCommented:
Hey there Boomer!

Let me see if I understand what you've got and what you've done so far.

PC#1

This is the PC with the connection to the cable modem. This PC should have 2 NIC's, one for the cable modem and the other for your network. The other NIC should go to a hub or the other machine if you're using cable.

PC#2

This PC should have a NIC and a cable to the other PC or to the HUB.

Do I understand this to be the situation? If not, correct me and be explicit as to the setup.

Next, When you installed ICS in PC #1, did you also make the setup disk and use it on PC #2?

Are your network protocols and bindings setup correctly?

Did you check your workgroup and ID settings?

Are your IP addresses setup correctly?

Dennis
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kaytonCommented:
Boomtastic-
Both NICs should light the LEDs.  What type of NIC do you have?  If they are ISA, then they might have an IRQ/address conflict.  

Try removing the second NIC and the cable modem.  See if you can get the two computers to talk to each other over the Ethernet.  Write down the IRQ/address if it is ISA.  

Now remove the known-good NIC and install the other NIC and cable modem.  See if you can make this work.  Check the IRQ/address and make sure they are different from the first NIC.

Now when you put them together it should work.
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BoomtasticAuthor Commented:
(In order, but written for all)

pslh: The Host computer connects to the Internet. (I'm on it now) The Client computer does not. ICS, from what I have read everywhere (including TechNet), is installed correctly. I'm not using DUN - there is no modem in either computer, only NICs.

Dennis: How are ya my friend? You have assumed the correct configuration of my system(s). Yes - I did use the Client disk (ICSCLSET I think was the name of the file it created?) on the other machine. Everything looks correct - network bindings are correct, IP addresses are correct (actually, the Host adapter uses DHCP and the Client adapter is assigned the 192.168.0.2 IP), etc. The setup of the system(s), specificaly, is as follows:
Host
Intel PII 233 w/MMX on an Asus 440BX P3B-F, 128Mb SDRAM
Primary NIC - DaynaPort PCI 10BASE-T (#DP1201)
Secondary NIC - SOHOware 10/100 PCI  (#SFA110A)

Client
Intel PIII 450 w/MMX on an Intel 440BX board, 64Mb SDRAM
Secondary NIC - SOHOware 10/100 PCI (#SFA110A) (Matched to the Host NIC)

kayton: Only the DaynaPort NIC lights up. The other does not. If I take out the DaynaPort and leave the SOHOware NIC installed, it will fire up but not connect to the Internet. (Probably some configuration problems - I didn't go too far into it) When I install the DaynaPort NIC back in, it connects to the Internet without a problem, and the light on the SOHOware NIC goes out. In all of this, none of the cards show up as being mis-configured in the Windows Device Manager. I have also used an IBM EtherJet 10/100 PCI, and a DaynaPort 10BASE-T ISA card with teh same results.

All: To sum it up - everything looks great, except that the DaynaPort PCI card is the only one that seems to connect without a problem to the Internet. No cards connect the local machines - Host and Client - together. I have tried spare cards of different configurations and manufacturers, but none work. ICS appears to be configured correctly on both machines. All secondary NICs installed do not light their LEDs, but do show up under Device Manager as correctly installed.
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kaytonCommented:
Did you try running the utilities that came with the NICs to see if they really ARE configured correctly?  Device Manager doesn't always tell the truth.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Boom, send me an email and I'll send you a document on ICS technique.
dwaldron@tapnet.net
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BoomtasticAuthor Commented:
kayton: Honestly, no. I just ran it and it literally did nothing, except pop a DOS prompt and move the cursor one space forward, then back again, then forward, and repeated itself in a continuos loop. I closed and quit the DOS box without ever learning anything.

Dennis: Email has left with the subject "From Boomtastic". Thx.
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dew_associatesCommented:
On its way Boom!
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accutechCommented:
Boomtastic,
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accutechCommented:
Boomtastic,

    Just out of curiosity, do you have a hub? Or are they being connected directly card to card?  If connected card to card do you have a crossover cable between them?  I just haven't seen anyone ask if it was a crossover cable going from unit#1 to unit#2 that would definitly make the lights and connection) between the computers not work.
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vaughan_lyleCommented:
My suggestions to you are this:
To the first part of your question:

a) Is the 2nd NIC supposed to light the LEDs under normal operation? (I assume it is)

Yes the 2nd network card should light up it's LED'S, when there is an active network connection present.If this is not happening then check to see if the NIC is working properly, there should be a diagnostic tool on the driver disk supplied by the hardware vendor. Boot your computer from a dos boot disk, then insert your driver disk and runn the diag tool, (you should be able to find it without to much difficulty).
This diag tool should detect and allow you to test each card individually, that is if both cards are from the same hardware manufacturer. If not use the driver disk for each specific card to test that card.

To the second part of your question:

b) How can I diagnose/troubleshoot the 2nd NIC when it tests fine in Windows? (ie; How do I run ping tests selectively from the NIC that I want?)
It is possible to ping using a specific card only however this is dependant on your internal TCP/IP configuration, as when you ping the card used is dependant on the subnet the ip address to be pinged is on and on the ip address it's self. However I would suggest using other ip commands to query your second network card. Try using {ipconfig /all} from the dos prompt. In addition try using the
{netstat -nr} and {nestat} commands to view your routing tables, and the ip config of your NIC's, then use ping to check the comms on each specific card, pinging first each cards local address, then the gateway if present.

Finally in solution to your problem, personally I never use win 98's ICS. You can try visiting the following site:
www.virtualmotion.com
you will find a product called Internet Lan bridge, I think this will take care of your prob.If not then setup your PCs as follows:

Attach your modem via it's serial cable connection to PC#1. (most cable modems that I have seen still have serial ports)

Ipconfig PC#1:
ip address: 192.168.2.1
subnet: 255.255.255.0
gateway: do not specify

ipconfig PC#2:
ipadress: 192.168.2.2
subnet: 255.255.255.0
gateway: 192.168.2.1

Setup your browser on PC#2 to connect to the internet via the LAN.

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BoomtasticAuthor Commented:
accutech: No hub installed - yet. I do have one ready, but I will install it at a later date. For now, it's simply a 25' CAT5 cable going from the Host secondary card to the Client card (the only one in the Client).

Dennis: Thanks. I got it, but haven't had a chance to review it.

Vaughn Lyle: A lot of people are staying away from ICS. Perhaps I should have listened? ;) The secondary NIC doesn't test with the OEM software, but I know Windows is assigning it an IP as I can find it scattered everywhere. (FTP program picks up on it, Registry shows it, I can ping it, if I take it out it gets another in the same subnet) If I follow your directions of assigning an IP to the primary Host NIC, I cannot connect to the Internet. All settings for the primary NIC (in the Host) are cleared or not selected. Also, there's no way to attach the cable modem to a serial input. It has an RJ jack on the back for output only, and is connected to the Dayna card.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Boom, remove all of the settings you have for ICS and then use what I sent you to redeploy it. It works fine. Most of the detractors posting negative comments either don't read the material through or are using trash for network components.
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BoomtasticAuthor Commented:
Dennis: Will do when I bust out of work tonight. Should I be scrubbing the registry keys as well with RegClean? (or is there something better?) Or will the uninstall simply remove all traces?
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dew_associatesCommented:
Just uninstall it Boom and then run scanreg/fix from a true dos prompt. eg: boot to a command prompt by tapping the F8 key. Then change to \Windows\Command and then run scanreg/fix.
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prborelCommented:

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prborelCommented:
Boom,

In answer to accutech's question you stated it was "simply a 25' CAT5 cable going from the Host secondary card to the Client card"  does this mean it's not a crossover?  If it isn't a crossover cable (two of the wires in the RJ-45 connectors are 'crossed') the connection directly from card to card will not work.  The cards simply will not see each other.
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BoomtasticAuthor Commented:
Dennis: Will do that tonight. (Work drained me yesterday)

prborel: No, I do not believe it's a crossover cable. Those types have a small plastic nub off the side of on of the the RJ-45 connectors, right? This one does not.
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prborelCommented:
Boom,

No you can't tell the difference between a crossover and a straight cable without a RJ45 plug tester.  If it isn't a crossover the two nic's won't 'see' each other.  You may try getting your local computer center to see if they can make you a crossover.  It shouldn't be that expensive.  From your posts I think you should try it.  I am not aware of a nic that is capable of crossing the wires itself.  When the nic's are connected to a hub the hub crosses the connections inside, but when connecting nic's one-to-one you must get the cable to do the crossing.

Just something to try.  It could be why Microsoft is saying it's a 'common network problem'
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kaytonCommented:
To tell is a cable is crossover or not, look at the colors of the wires.  If it is a straight-through cable, the colors will be in the exact same order on both ends.  If it is a crossover cable, the orange and green will be different on the two ends.  The bump is meaningless.
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BoomtasticAuthor Commented:
prborel/kayton: I was informed today that the cable with the bump is more commonly known as a patch cable. (Personally, I shave that damn bump down and use 'em like a normal cable for my users. They work fine) Regardless of whether I have the right cable, the NIC should still light up - correct? Without the right cable the NIC just wouldn't light the 'traffic' LED .. In my case, the NIC doesn't light off at all - only the primary NIC lights up.
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prborelCommented:
I'm not sure, the cards I use are Kingston and they don't have any lights when not connected correctly.  I still think your problem may be the need of a crossover cable.
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kaytonCommented:
I'm not familiar with Kingston cards.  I use 3Com and they light up even with nothing attached if they are set up right.
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BoomtasticAuthor Commented:
prborel/kayton: I too am familiar with 3Com cards, which light off as long as they are setup correctly regardless of physical connection. This is what got me wondering in the first place. I did try a 3C509b-TP at first, and it too failed to light, although it was setup and configured correctly. So now, with that said, the DaynaPort ISA, 3Com, IBM and SOHOware cards have all experienced the same conditions.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Have you change slots on the MB?
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BoomtasticAuthor Commented:
Dennis: Yes. I previously tried moving the cards around and still received the same problem. I will be trying your directions this weekend, when I shut down the system to move it into another case. (Previous problem that you helped me on with power supply voltages ..)
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prborelCommented:
Boom,

ICS works fine I have installed and used it on several of my client's computer's.  From my experience the network has to be working properly first (being able to browse the Network Neighborhood, etc.)  Have you been able to do that yet?  I havn't seen anyone try to get you to do that yet.  And to do that with only 2 nic's and no hub you are going to have to have a crossover cable.  That is the only way to make 2 nic's 'see' each other.  Deploying the ICS is easy after that.  
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BoomtasticAuthor Commented:
prborel: Sorry for the delay in answering! I had a NetBEUI network up between the 2 machines at first, but being that BEUI is non-routable it did me little good other than simple file shuffling. I had never gotten further than that. I can easily bring the hub I have at work home (it's mine anyways - I just use it at work more than I do here, since nothing's working right here .. <g>) and try the network with that instead of a crossover cable. I shopped for a crossover cable, but no one carried them. Most people stared blankly at me, then offered me the regular CAT5 patch cable.

Random Thoughts: I know Windows is assigning an IP to the second NIC (which would tell me that it is finding it and that the NIC is working properly), because my FTP server software picks up 2 different NIC addresses upon startup. One is my cable modem assigned IP; the other is a "random" one. This IP does not show up in the Network Neighborhood configuration. For example, this is what I get when I start the FTP server: "FTP Server on-line: IP-number(s) 169.254.52.197, 24.128.145.121, port number 21". The first IP is a random one and the second is the one assigned by my cable company. This is all with ICS removed. (Sorry Dennis - I have been busy at work and am trying to find a free moment to read those directions that you sent me!)
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dew_associatesCommented:
Boom, that's not uncommon. You'll really need to dump your present networking setup, then reconfigure the cable modem and then setup ICS. It will use DHCP, so the ip address will then be handled correctly. If you need a second static ip address, you can make a change in the reg to handle that.
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BoomtasticAuthor Commented:
Dennis: Right now both cards are using DHCP. All networking settings are cleared or blanked out. This is what is screwing me up. :) It's so simple, it's *got* to work, yet it doesn't.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Boom, I've never been able to get a failed ICS to work, and I've never been able to repair one that has had the network disassembled and then reassembled.

What I've had to do is remove the NICs, uninstall ICS and all of the networking components through add/remove and then start fresh. It works everytime!
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BoomtasticAuthor Commented:
Dennis: I'm on page 7 of your instructions. So far everything is following along quite nicely, except that I do not have a Dial-up Adapter (on cable instead, and substituting that NIC in the Adapter's place), have NetBEUI installed as well, and "File and Print sharing for Microsoft Networks" isn't installed. Everything else looks great, which brings me to this - when I try to install the File and Print Sharing, I get a Network "error" box that states "System policies do not allow adding the selected devices". I haven't set any policies upon myself, that I know of. Will ICS prevent me from installing File & Printer Sharing? Should I (groan) uninstall ICS, add File & Printer Sharing, and then reinstall ICS?
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dew_associatesCommented:
Boom, this article leads me to believe that file and printer sharing can be added after the fact.

Internet Connection Sharing (ICS) does not install File and Printer Sharing by
default. Therefore, the ICS host is not visible in Network Neighborhood and
cannot share files and printers.
 
MORE INFORMATION
================
 
To install File and Printer Sharing:
 
1. Click Start, point to Settings, click Control Panel, and then double-click
   Network.
 
2. Click Add, click Services, and then double-click "File and Printer Sharing
   for Microsoft Networks".
 
3. Double-click "TCP/IP (shared)-><External Adapter>" (or Dial-Up
   Adapter if a dial-up connection is used).
 
4. Click OK, and then click the Bindings tab. Click to clear the "File and
   Printer Sharing" check box.
 
5. Click OK.
 
6. Click OK, and then restart the computer when you are prompted.
 
Sharing Folders or Printers
---------------------------
 
File and Printer Sharing must be installed on any computer on which folders or
printers will be shared on the network.
 
To share a folder or printer, use the right mouse button to click a folder
(Microsoft Windows 98 and Microsoft Windows 95 are unable to share specific
files) or printer, click Sharing, click Share As, type a name for the share,
select the access level, and click OK.
 
To map a network drive, use the right mouse button to click Network Neighborhood,
and then click Map Network Drive. Type
"\\<computername>\<sharename>" (without the quotation marks), where
<computername> is the name of the computer sharing the folder or printer,
and <sharename> is the name of the shared folder or printer.
 
NOTE: Binding File and Printer Sharing to the external adapter and opening the
SMB ports on the ICS host makes all shared folders and printers accessible from
the Internet and creates a possible security issue. Although ICS is not designed
to function as a firewall or provide strong firewall protection, shared files
and folders possess a reasonable level of security if configured in the manner
described in this article.
 
To prevent the sharing of files to the Internet, follow these steps:
 
1. Click Start, point to Settings, click Control Panel, and then double-click
   Network.
 
2. Double-click the TCP/IP(Shared) listing. If you are prompted with a warning
   message, click OK.
 
3. On the Bindings tab, click to clear the "File and Printer Sharing for
   Micorosoft Networks" check box, and then click OK.
 
4. Double-click "TCP/IP->Internet Sharing Connection", and then click the
   Bindings tab.
 
5. Click to clear the "File and Printer Sharing for Micorosoft Networks" check
   box, and then click OK.
 
6. Click OK, and then restart the computer.


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BoomtasticAuthor Commented:
Dennis: With your help I now have ICS up and running. Thank you for the clear directions. The problem was a combination of things, including the hub input/output setup and Windows 98 software. I could not get File & Print Sharing installed though. (Same error message as above) It really doesn't seem to be a big deal though, as long as 1 system has File & Print sharing setup I can connect the 2 together. Otherwise, I accept your answer. Thanks again (to all) for all your help! Happy Holidays to everyone!!
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dew_associatesCommented:
Glad I could help Boom. I'll refer to the above as the answer. Have a Happy Holiday Season!
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