it keeps freezing!!

I have a Mac G3 with OS 8.6.  I've being using Adobe PhotoShop 5.0 for 2 months now on it.  Now I'm working with a larger file, about 200mb and it frooze on me.  I got rid of the file and it still freezes.  I sometimes get a system bomb and type errors with Adobe unexpectedly quiting.

Does anyone know what I can do to correct this??
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VIBESPROAsked:
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kpu8Commented:
A few things to try
1) clean your desktop - during the reboot process hold down the option and apple key and it will ask you to rebuild the desktop and which time you say yes you want to rebuild the desktop -

2) Sometimes when bombs appear that isn't a good sign and I would suggest re-installing your system software - if you have the CD it should automatically load for you once it's in the drive and you reboot - make sure to install the system software only or else you will lose everything

3) another trick I learned direct from apple is to rebuild your machine from the keyboard this can be obtained by rebooting the machine and hitting
P - R - Option - Apple all at the same time - let it chime 5 times then let go of all the keys - I think but I'm not sure that rebuilding from the keyboard can be done once the smiling apple comes up

4) re-install photoshop

Hope this helps

Kevin
 
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VIBESPROAuthor Commented:
none of those worked
do you have any more suggestions??
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kpu8Commented:
Possibly try up-ing the virtual memory which should be in the system folder under memory -

you may have to reboot for the memory to be allocated

Thanks

Kevin
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andyringCommented:
No, No, No. Stay away, far away, from virtual memory with Photoshop. Photoshop uses it's own, highly efficent, virtual memory scheme, far better than Apple's. In fact, I think Adobe recommends AGAINST using VM with Photoshop.

Is the machine freezing just when you try to open Photoshop? Exactly at what point does it freeze, and what exactly happens? Bomb with an error number, just a freeze, what?
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VIBESPROAuthor Commented:
It freezes at ANY time.  with bomb error and unexpectedly quit with type errors 1,2,3,4,10,11
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kpu8Commented:
I think maybe you hard drive is fried -
I would take it in someplace and have it looked at

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JlittleCommented:
First off: How much real memory is installed on the machine currently? You said that the file was about 200mB. If you are trying to run this with only, say, 64 MB of RAM that may be the problem right there. I'll assume from here that you have at least 128 MB of RAM. Do other Photoshop files crash in the same manner that the one in question does, or is it only that specific file? If it seems as if only that one does, try creating another Photoshop file of about the same file size and see if that crashes the programme. Have you tried removing the programme and reinstalling it from the original disks. There is also a .02 update available for Photoshop 5. I can't remember what it fixes, but it probably wouldn't hurt to try that. It should be available on www.versiontracker.com by doing a search for Photoshop 5.02.

If it seems as if it is only this file that crashes, it may very well mean that  the file may be damaged.
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becredclayCommented:
Try trashing your Finder Preferences file.  It's in the system folder, in the preferences file.  Drag it to trash and restart the machine. (This is different from rebuilding the desktop.)
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kpu8Commented:
Possibly also try deleting the
preferences for Photoshop only then re-install photoshop - However I know for a fact that last spring I was getting either a type 2 or 11 error and it turned out that the hard drive was fried - but at any rate try this it might work



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VIBESPROAuthor Commented:
**** no.  hard drive fried!!
but what would cause that??
anyway, I'll try something.  

what about formating the drive and reinstalling evrything??
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kpu8Commented:
When mine fried it was a few years old and I transported it 8 hrs once - and a
power surge got to it -

Formatting the drive may not be a bad but I would think that first you would've gotten away with possibly just re-installing the system software
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forkbeardCommented:
Before you reformat your HD go down this checklist.

1.Have you installed any new software around same time your problems started?
2.Have you run a disk utility recently? (ex. Norton Disk Doctor, TechTool Pro)
3.Use just the Base set of extensions for OS in Extensions Manager. Restart computer and run programs that have caused problems in past.

If problems still remain we can move onto next step.
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VIBESPROAuthor Commented:
ok I'll try those
thanx
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brittwinnCommented:
Have you thought about bad RAM? I support 40 Macs  and have seen simlar bombs occur due to RAM going bad (the Photoshop file is obviously pushing the limits of your RAM). I have a nifty freeware program that checks for bad RAM. I was originally laughed at for offering bad RAM as a possible ailment until I used the utility and located the bad chip. Upon replacing the chip- no more crashes.
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forkbeardCommented:
Have you had any luck w/ your system?  Just curious.
If it is still not running properly I can post part 2 of checklist.

forkbeard
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VIBESPROAuthor Commented:
yes I still have problems with the system!!  But I am sorry to say that I've found the problem myself.  It's a system software problem!  I'm still looking for help on that though.  If you have an answer let me know..
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forkbeardCommented:
Are the problems the same as listed above or has anything changed.

If you are sure the problem is w/ the OS you need to insert the system CD and restart and hold down "C" key until the "Mac OS" screen appears.  After it boots up to your CD, re-install the OS and chose clean install.  This will delete the old OS and start fresh.
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VIBESPROAuthor Commented:
sorry but that's not it.  The problem is not the OS or RAM so far....

I got another 128mb RAM chip.  I replaced the other one and no change so I added it to make a 256mb total! and upgraded to OS 9 NO big change.  only increased speed....

So far another tech is looking at it and beleive it is a hardware problem, (HARD DRIVE may be fried or damage or has bad clusters or a bad block or a virus)  don't know yet
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forkbeardCommented:
The fastest, least expensive way I know of testing hardware devices is to find someone who has a similar model computer and swap devices.

If you think the HD is the problem.  Open the computer cases and then switch drives.  Boot-up and see who has problems w/ system.  Like playing 'hot-potato' if you switch one device at a time whoever has problems after start-up just recieved the bad device.

If you can find a similar computer, I would remove HD first and then test.  If that isn't the problem, then I would switch RAM.  Then I would switch motherboards.  2 important thing about this process.

1) Always unplug the computers when working inside and be sure to ground yourself before touching components inside.

2) Only swap one device at a time.  Swapping more than one device at a time will not isolate which one is causing the problem.

Note: Sometimes Ram slots can go bad and try placing the ram in different slots.  One chip in first slot then test.  Then move the chip to second slot and test.  Test w/ just one ram chip in computer each time and in each slot position.  To be sure test again w/ different ram chip.

My gut instinct is you motherboard is causing the problem but test the other possibilities first.  Replacing motherboards can be expensive and you need a Mac authorized technicial to replace it.

forkbeard
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andyringCommented:
Tech Tool Pro 2.5.2 (well, all Pro versions) have some EXTENSIVE hardware testing routines, testing literally every aspect of your computer. I'd suggest giving that a try.
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VIBESPROAuthor Commented:
what about Norton Utilities?
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andyringCommented:
When it comes to hardware, Norton is 100% useless. Norton is entirely software, no hardware. Tech Tool Pro tests every hardware aspect of your computer, and will do far more than Norton for software. Norton does primarily disk repair, Tech Tool will do a complete volume structures replacement (Norton just patches the old one), it will verify the integrity of your System file, and lots more. As far as I'm concerned, Norton isn't much better than Disk First Aid, which comes with your Mac. If it's a memory problem, Tech Tool has routines that will test it. I'd recommend getting a copy of that and running it. Keep in mind for something like a memory problem, it may have to be tested multiple times for the problem to show up. Good luck.
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kpu8Commented:
Didn't I say I thought the Hard Drive was fried way back on Dec 3rd!!!????
I think your tech is on the right track - and I also think forkhead saying the motherboard may be the problem is something I never thought about - because that it a real pain if that is bad - anyway keep all of us posted -

Thanks

Kevin
 
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TheHubCommented:
Your drive is not fried, if fried is defined as requiring replacement. MacOS 8.6 and 9 are not as stable as MacOS 8.5.1. There are no big improvements over 8.5.1, so the penalty of going "backwards" is neglegible.

You need Norton 5.0.2. If you do not have directory errors now (you do), you will have them in the future. Such is life in the binary world.

Photoshop 5.0.2 is not compatible with MacOS 9. Since you are there now, you might as well back up everything, reformat with Drive Setup 1.7.3 and do a clean install of MacOS 8.5.1 (use the Universal [runs on any Macintosh] option and do not update the HD Driver [you did that when you re-formatted]).

Error Codes:
dsBusError
ID=01 Bus Error
This means the computer tried to access memory that doesn't exist. You can get this error on almost any Macintosh. If one of these computers tried to access one or more bytes beyond the total number of bytes in RAM, you see a bus error. You should never see this  error on a Macintosh Plus or SE, because address references that are out of bounds "roll over". This means if one of these computers tries to access one byte beyond the total bytes in RAM, it actually accesses the first byte in memory. If you see this error on a Macintosh Plus or SE, it's reporting the wrong error or having hardware problems.

dsAddressErr
ID=02 Address Error
The Motorola 68000 microprocessor can access memory in increments of one byte (8 bits), one word (16 bits), or one long word (32 bits). The microprocessor can access a byte of information at an odd or even memory address. But it must access a word or long word at an even memory address. So, when the microprocessor attempts to read or write a word or long word at an odd address, you see this error. Since that's a 50/50 proposition when running random code, this one shows up quite often.

dsIllInstErr
ID=03 Illegal Instruction
The computer has a specific vocabulary of machine language instructions it can understand. If a computer tries to execute an instruction that isn't in its vocabulary, you see this error code. It's less likely than error 02, but still very common.

dsZeroDivErr
ID=04 Zero Divide Error
This error results if the microprocessor divides two numbers, and the divisor is zero. Sometimes a programmer puts these in as debugging aids, and then forgets to take them out.

dsLineFErr
ID=10 Line 1111 Trap Error
There are many routines in the Macintosh ROM that can be called by placing instructions in a program that aren't in the 68000's vocabulary. When the 68000 encounters such an instruction, it looks it up in the instruction table. This table gives the location of routines paired with each instruction. If it finds an entry in the table for the instruction, it branches to the routine. If there's no entry for the instruction, you see one of these errors.

11
dsMiscErr
miscellaneous hardware exception error

There may be more than one cause for your problems. One or more of your RAM chips may be faulty and/or not seated correctly. Open up the machine and remove/replace the chips. If you are not properly grounded, you will blow up the chips with static electricity. The risk is yours to weigh. Your HD directory probably needs to be rebuilt. This can be done with Norton Utils 5.0.3. If you did not install the MacOS 8.6 Font Manager Update 1.0 available at: http://www.versiontracker.com/ your Applications and/or Fonts may have been corrupted requiring re-installation.

As I said before, your best bet is to reformat, reinstall. MacOS 8.5.1 is best. After installation, Zap the PRAM and rebuild the Desktop using TechTool (the freeware version - http://www.micromat.com/). Additionally, you should check to see that you have all applied all of the firmware/software updates at: http://www.versiontracker.com/.

I could tell you that I work in the MacOS Software Installation world and that I am God when it comes to Macs, but...you would not beleive me. So, you'll just have to guess as to the accuracy of my information.

The Error Codes can be found on my web site.

* Note *
TechTool Pro is flawed. It reports errors where there are none and vice versa. Unless you have been around Macs a long time, you might not know when the utility is reporting erroneous info. The likelyhood of your drive being "fried" is remote. "Fried" is a term techs use to describe a component that must be replaced. 99.9% of all Mac problems are software related.

Good Luck,
-TheHub
http://www.MacintoshMagician.com/
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andyringCommented:
Ummm Photoshop 5.0.2 not compatable with OS9? I use Photoshop 5.0.2 daily with OS9 and never have problems.
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VIBESPROAuthor Commented:
sorry guys...  I did a low level format and re-install OS9 and Photoshop 5.0.2.
swap the ram chips, ran Norton Utilities
with no errors found..

and so far it seems to work.  I got an error or two for the first 3 days and now it works fine... I hope it stays that way... :)  Thanks once again for all your help!!

And for you TheHub!  I gave you the points because you gave me some info on those errors I was receiving.

And for you Forkbeard and kpu8 I have to give you guys points as well.  You deserve it!!  Well done.
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TheHubCommented:
andyring: Nothing personal, but this is not a pissing contest. This a place to provide and receive help. Please consider this before you make comments.

My experience with Photoshop/MacOS 9 and the bug reports posted at various places agree that Photoshop 5.0.2 is not 100% compatible with MacOS 9. Photoshop is a very powerful program. It takes years to learn and I am confident that you have not used every single feature that it has to offer. I am glad you have not had any problems with it. The ones that I have experienced are minor and I was able to find workarounds.

-TheHub (Master of the Universe)

:)
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VIBESPROAuthor Commented:
hey!  Thanx..  If any thing comes up I'll update you guys...
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