Fonts are not seen by Photoshop 5.5 correctly in Win98

Like many designers I have a precious collection of fonts. Unfortunately after recently rebuilding Win98 I installed my collection in dribs and drabs, including a new set from an old CorelDraw 4 Disk I have.

My problem: In all my Graphics Applications I have two lists of A to Z, where there should be only one. Making apps like Photoshop for example, report a font to be missing when it is in fact present, but only in the second A-Z listing.

This is only seen by the apps, it is not apparent when looking in the Win98 FONTS folder where there is only one single list of A to Z. However, that may only be because of the Windows Explorer sort options - ie Sort Alphabetically.

I've tried deleting all the fonts bar a couple of system fonts (Arial, Times, System etc - so I can still read the screen!) and reinstalling, but to no avail.

I should also point out that I installed some fonts from an old CorelDraw 4 CD and stupidly used the installation routine present on the disk, which is very Windows 3.1 orientated. If I rememeber correctly, using this routine would have listed the fonts in a Windows *.INI file somewhere, but I can't find it.


NB: Also reproduced this question in the Fonts and Win98 sections to cover all bases - the Win98 one carries the points though.
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do you have adobe type manager installed aswell ?
Eric AKA NetminderCommented:
Your problem started (unless I miss my guess) when you used Corel's font installation program.

The good news is that you can fix it. The bad news is that you get to start over.

Except for Arial and the system fonts, get rid of all of them. Use the font manager in the control panel, and delete like crazy.

Then reinstall the fonts you want using the font manager in the control panel -- and don't ever look at the Corel installation routine again.

You'll be a happy camper. One list, and all your Windows programs will be able to see them.
bigstarAuthor Commented:

Sorry I've not replied earlier - I don't seem to be getting the auto response from EE for some reason.

I did actually try this, but deleted at least one major system font. This is the font which displays as small text inside the initial ID panel of certain programs like Outlook Express and Photoshop for instance. Currently the text is displayed as a non standard and virtually illegible font.

If you could indicate what all of the standard system (ie Windows 98) fonts are, I can retry the deletion process and see if I can get everything back to normal using your suggestion.

Perhaps then maybe Happy Camper Heaven?
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Eric AKA NetminderCommented:
I use Win95, so this may be a little off, but the fonts you're likely to be missing are

MS Outlook
MS Serif
MS Sans Serif
Small Fonts

Other possibles are

Times Roman
Trebuchet MS

And a few other Microsoft supplied fonts, but none of those are system critical.

Good luck...

bigstarAuthor Commented:

I managed to get a full list of the standard fonts that come with a Windows 98 installation when I built a new and seperate Win 98 PC. My missing fonts were the ones with *.FON extension. Now that these have been restored, all Windows fonts look and read correctly.

Having got this list I systematically went through the a deletion routine via the Fonts folder in the Control Panel and deleted all but the standard fonts.

I then checked Photoshop (in particular) and I had just one alphabetical list of fonts - good result.

Having removed all the offending fonts I then loaded them all back using the same CONTROL PANEL/FONTS routine, but bad result! I checked Photoshop and up came the two alphabetical listings.

Other programs Fireworks 2 and Word 2000 for example were fine. As Photoshop seemed to be the main culprit - I deinstalled it and then reinstalled it - but still got two listings.

However one event may give some indication of the problem. Photoshop failed to install its own "AdobeUI.fon" asking me to delete some fonts.

I did this an although it didn't work straight away, it did install after a couple of reboots.

Although I've never experienced it before with previous versions, is there some restriction on the amount of fonts Photoshop will permit?

Secondly, does it seem that the only way to stop the two alphabetical listings is to rebuild the PC?

BTW - I have 891 fonts (including System and printer fonts) installed which may be a little excessive. Once I've solved this problem I intend to start using a Font manager like Printers Apprentice

Any help would be gratefully received?
Eric AKA NetminderCommented:
In order...

1. I don't think so, but as I mentioned, I'm not an expert on Photoshop; like you, I favor Corel *grin*... I do know there was a limit to the number of fonts Windows could see (as I recall, it was 1140 or some such number), but I think that was solved in Win95.

2. That's pretty much the size of it. You could probably edit the Registry, but I'm not one to do stuff like that.

3. I've never really used a font manager... let me know how it goes.

The one thing that isn't clear from your note is whether, when you removed the offending fonts, you deleted them from the hard drive, or just from the system. When I first had the problem (which took a long time to figure out) I finally deleted them entirely, and have always done that since. When our graphics guy here had the problem, that was how we dealt with it, and he's one of those "gee I used to love my Mac" guys who's running a monster machine with NT, and who adores Photoshop... and he hasn't had any font-related problems since...
About the number of fonts...
Actually, the limit in Win 95 is 500, in Win 98 I think it's been increased to something like 800 or so.  However, since I NEVER use all those fonts on a regular basis, I've discovered another trick that works especially well if you download zips off the web.

I leave all my d/l'ed fonts in the zip.  I've created a folder for them so I can locate them easily.  Whenver I want to use a font, I open the zip file and double click the font's name so it shows up in my font viewer (Windows' default one is fine).  Then, I simply minimize (not close) the viewer and use my image editor as usual.  When I wish to create text, the font will show up in the list just as though it were installed.

I've found this works in most programs as well, which is just fine for me! :-)

Anyway, this suggests the ideal solution for your problem really is to delete the font entirely and either reinstall or copy them to another folder.

bigstarAuthor Commented:
EricPete - Edit the registry - nah. I've tried stuff like that before and usually goes horribly wrong in some irretreivable way.

No I didn't delete the fonts all together - Just moved them to another folder. That's the way the font manager works also - but it deletes them from the registry also.

Jaquwar - Interesting font management you have there. Thanks for the tip, but I'm happy with the font manager.

I've lived with this font problem for quite a few weeks now and really there seems nothing for it but to rebuild the machine and never use the Corel install routine again!

Thanks for all your suggestions.
Eric AKA NetminderCommented:
*wry smile*...

re: Never using the Corel routine... that's about the size of it. I used to use both Corel Draw and Ventura all day, and ran into your original problem. Cost me two days, which, in the weekly newspaper business, is an absolute nightmare. I'll never use Corel's installation ever again.
I've never used the Corel routine but still have the same thing happen in Photoshop. I've seen this happen on many machines. I think it is a bug in Photoshop.
bigstarAuthor Commented:
ericpete - Cost you two days, will cost me similar when I take the plunge and rebuild. However yes it's definately goodbye Corel.

Cevr - Interesting. I must admit I hadn't noticed this problem at all before using 5.5. Never happend in version for or 5. Do Adobe know, are they doing anything about it?
Eric AKA NetminderCommented:
Worst part of it is that I'm a huge fan of most of what Corel does, in some cases almost accidentally... Used Ventura before Xerox bought it, and was introduced to Paradox as a vendor, rather than an end user or developer, when it first came out (and it's still the only program I took a class in *smirk*)... and I still use Corel 4 as well as Corel 9...
I came here tonight ready to spend my precious points asking just the question you did. Besides the fact that there are two lists of fonts and the Adobe UI won't load, have you noticed any other performance problem?
bigstarAuthor Commented:
ericpete - I'm still a fan of CorelDraw - it's the first vector program I ever used and still have a fondness for it. Just won't be using the Font install routine again!

BTW - why would you use Corel 4 and 9 - apart from the bloatware aspect - just interested?

5mile - Worst aspect of the the two font runs is Photoshop's error message which happens like this:

Load an old PSD file where are using say Copperplate Gothic Light, Photoshop says it can't find the font and will substitute another font - usually Arial or Times Roman. This screws your design. You can however, then go into the font dialogue and find your Copperplate font in the second listing. But it's still a pain, especially if you have 20 layers all with the same font.

BTW - what's Adobe UI - I'm sure I should know but have forgotten?
Eric AKA NetminderCommented:
re: the font install... wise move... *chuckle*... this thread is still giving me nightmares about my two days of hell, and Ventura was worse than the actual font problem...

re: using v4 and v9. I use v4 because it's quick, easy and painless for most stuff; in fact, I'd probably use it all of the time, except I have a client who has v9, and we've had some problems with his reading electronically transmitted v4 files... that, and I got the upgrade to v9 fairly inexpensively... *grin*
hmm, well I am running NT 4 service pack 5, and ever since I upgraded to photoshop 5.5 I also have had two lists of fonts a-z,a-z it makes me crazy but hey I still get get to all my fonts. I think it is Adobe's door we should be knocking on. BTW, I have no Corel products, I doubt it is the cause of your problem too. I also use ATM pro and never mucked with the settings after the upgrade, now that I write this maybe I should? see ya....

Eric AKA NetminderCommented:

Couldn't tell you, except to say that I think the problem may well be with the duplicate font management programs (Win/NT vs. ATM/Corel). If it ain't broke (for you), don't fix it... but if you ever have occasion to rebuild your system, you might want to load the fonts via NT first, THEN load ATM...

Will you take the time to award points to the one who answers your question?


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bigstarAuthor Commented:
It's been a old banter and I've enjoyed the debate but nobody has actually solved the problem!

Ken - I'm off to Budapest in less than 8 Hours & I've got to now get some sleep.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt - that the Adobe help pages you reference will answer my question - although I don't have time to read it now.

If it doesn't solve the prob - I'll be back for my points!

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