IDE Controller

Hi.

Ive just converted my system to a pure
SCSI device system.
I heard that disabling the IDE controller would make the system near 2x as fast.
Anyways... i disabled the primary and secondary IDE controller in BIOS, but win98 sec.edition still autodetects :
"Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller" and shows it with a yellow question-mark on it in the device manager.

How do i get rid of it for good ?

Ive tried removing it, but it just re-detects it and adds it again at next reboot.
When i do "Properties" on it it says :
"This device is disables because the BIOS for the device did not give it an IRQ (Interrupt Equest). (Code 29.)

You must enable the device in the BIOS. See your hardware doc.. blahblahblah".

I thought the idea of disabling it was to disable it so it dont show up on the device manager. Like ive disabled both COM ports, and they dont show up in the device manager.

My motherboard is "Abit BH6"

I appreciate any suggestions..

Regards,
Loke

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LokeAdvisorAsked:
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Asta CuTechnical consultant & graphic designCommented:
I had the exact situation, enabled/disabled, tried all kinds of variations on the theme and found no significant improvement.  Had a question posted which Dennis answered; here's the link/information on it.  I ended up re-enabling in my BIOS and loading the IDE controllers back in but in the settings options, stating NO IDE. Here's the link which provides the various responses in the PAQ.

http://www.experts-exchange.com/jsp/qShow.jsp?ta=win98&qid=10175265 

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Asta CuTechnical consultant & graphic designCommented:
As you'll note, I did implement the recommendations made by Dennis of Dew-Associates in the Q and haven't actually noticed any change in performance or execution speed, but got rid of the Code 29 and yellow ! which bugged me.  Synopsis of the Q:

In the order of discussion for you ;o)

1. Load the PCI Bus, including IDE, but make sure all of the hard drives are listed as none. You need one side of the pci bus to unload the cpu.

2. To fix the IRQ jumble, (the IRQ for the Intel controller/USB will float), enable the COM and force it back to 4 and let Win98 juggle the IRQ's. It should force the USB port back towards the top of the list somewhere around 9 to 11. IRQ 9 is steerable, while 4 isn't

Clarifications:
==============
IF YOU WERE IN MY SHOES, IS YOU WOULD OPT TO IMPLEMENT THESE CHANGES:

Yes!

EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE USING RESOURCES FOR NON-EXISTENT SUPPORT NEEDS, (IN THE INTEREST OF ELIMINATING THE ANNOYOING ! IN DEVICE MANAGER AND CODE 29)

Actually you will see no noticeable resource changes or use. If this were an NT machine with the NT Kernel and core components, you would see 2 additional processes, but not with 98. Granted, you will see a resource use in device manager, but as far as CPU and memory overhead, you will actually see an improvement or gain, and you now have access to that side of the bus.

<<AND THE WAY YOU'D DO IT IS WHAT YOU'LL POST AS AN ANSWER; IF I'M MISUNDERSTOOD, PLEASE CLARIFY.>>

1. Enable the Intel IDE bus.
2. Change the IDE drives in the Bios setup to none.
3. To clear the IRQ 4 for Com 1, force com 1 to IRQ 4 and boot.
4. The USB port should now be at 9.



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Jason_SCommented:
Yes, Windows will find a device, even when disabled.  Normaly, it will also find COM ports.

Normaly, you can disable this in both the BIOS, and Device Manager.  Then no more yellow !, just a red X.

SCSI will be faster than IDE in some respects.  But it wont make much diffrence if any with processing.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Go get'em Asta!
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Asta CuTechnical consultant & graphic designCommented:
Thanks, Dennis, it only makes sense to share the wisdom you've so kindly imparted on a Q to me.  Now then, if I could only make sense of all this (tee hee).  The more I think about the performance issue and task execution speed; the issue is on my 'patchwork system' which has an absolutely huge registry with all the old apps I've forcefed into the registry -- who's to say that Loke's performance would not be significantly improved by implementing the recommendations you had made to me.

Best wishes all,

Asta
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LokeAdvisorAuthor Commented:
Hehe, well a new fresh reinstart always helps on the system. Last time i checked the registry with Cleansweep i had over 6000 invalid registry pointers.
Warez is fun :)
So its kinda hard to know exactly how much of an improvement i got when converting to SCSI. But i think a new install helped the most.
jaja, i got the boot-up time down from over 3 minutes to less than 30 secs :).

Ive done the things you wrote now.
(Ive only enable the primary ide).
But when i choose "No IDE Channels Enabled" i still get that friggin' yellow question mark and the same "No BIOS IRQ set" thing.
So now im running on "Only Primary IDE Channel enabled". If noone else got some tweak-nuke-ide-controller, im awarding you the points soon.
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Asta CuTechnical consultant & graphic designCommented:
Take your time on this process, Loke, no rush.  Ideally, you find the solution you want.  I'm baffled why you're still getting the !.

Did you have a chance to print the process and check it step by step?  I'll also check back with that computer when I get to that neighborhood to see if there's anything else I've failed to include here.

Asta
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dew_associatesCommented:
Loke, in following with what Asta has advised, make sure you did or have done the following in the order given.

1. Enable the PCI IDE bus in the Bios settings.

2. Where you would setup the hard drive parameters (drive recognition) enter none for all IDE drives.

3. Now boot into windows. In Device Manager, you should show a Bus Master IDE Controller plus a Primary and Secondary controller beneath it (dual fifo).

4. If the Bus Master Controller is not shown, or either the primary or the secondary are missing, remove all of the IDE devices and reboot.
Dennis
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LokeAdvisorAuthor Commented:
Ok, here is what ive done:

-Before i installed Win98SE :
  -In BIOS :
   -All IDE disks was set to "None"
   -Primary IDE Controller set to "Disabled"
   -Secondary IDE Controller set to "Disabled"

When Win98SE was installed it found :
"Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller" (with a "!" in device manager)

-I removed this device, rebooted and :
 -In BIOS set :
   -Primary IDE Controller set to "Enabled"
   -Secondary IDE Controller set to "Enabled"

When Win98SE restarted it found :
-"Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller"
 -"Primary IDE Controller (dual fifo)
 -"Secondary IDE Controller (dual fifo)

In "Settings" in Device Manager on -"Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller" i set "No IDE Channels enabled", rebooted and it shows :
-"Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller" (with the "!").
(the weird thing here is that it reports that it doesnt work because "This device is disables because the BIOS for the device did not give it an IRQ (Interrupt Equest). (Code 29.) blahblahblah". BUT, it IS eneabled in BIOS.

I then removed this device again, rebooted and in BIOS set :
 -Primary IDE Controller set to "Disabled"
 -Secondary IDE Controller set to "Disabled"

When Win98SE started up again it still
finds the -"Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller" (with the "!").

So, no matter what i try, it always finds the -"Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller".

So to your question : yes, that is what ive done.


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dew_associatesCommented:
Okay loke, let's see if we can find out what is preventing this from loading properly.

1. Boot into the Bios setup and (A) Enable Plug and Play and then (B) Enable the PCI IDE bus.

2. Where you would setup the hard drive parameters (drive recognition) enter none for all IDE drives.

3. Now boot into windows SAFEMODE. In Device Manager, you should show a Bus Master IDE Controller plus a Primary and Secondary controller beneath it (dual fifo). REMOVE ALL ENTRIES!

4. Now reboot the system.

5. Now the Bus Master Controller should be shown along with the primary and the secondary.

Let me know!
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Asta CuTechnical consultant & graphic designCommented:
Then, Dennis, what about within Device Manager on the details of the ensuing entries for the controllers, should Loke choose the default, disable or what?  I had to reflect default on primary and secondaries via theproperties of each to eliminate the yellow !, even though (of course), no ide devices.
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dew_associatesCommented:
He should reflect the default as well Asta. BTW, this is your question, so don't hesitate to follow up!
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Asta CuTechnical consultant & graphic designCommented:
As always, Dennis, I'm happy to participate with you and always appreciate your knowledge and input.  Listening for more from Loke; and will check back when I can.  Thank you, though, for your thoughtfulness.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Anytime Asta!
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LokeAdvisorAuthor Commented:
Ok, i followed your instructions dew, but i think you are misunderstanding the problem. Its not that the IDE controller dont work. Cause it does.. too good.
The problem is that i dont want Win98SE to find any IDE controller at all.

It still autodetects the IDE controller when starting Win98SE after ive removed it. No matter what i set in the BIOS settings.

In BIOS ive tried setting every thinkable settings to prevent Win98SE of autodetect the IDE Controller.

Ok, next step must be to upgrade the BIOS. I think this might help cause it appears as the problem lies in the BIOS. Since it doesnt disable the IDE Controller the way it should
Ill upgrade the BIOS tomorrow, and let you know if that fixes it.

Merry x-mas :)
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dew_associatesCommented:
Loke, I understand the problem entirely. You won't be able to eliminate Win98 from detecting the chipset on the motherboard. This info is buried in the dynamic portion of the Bios as well as the machine.inf file.

Furthermore, you need the front side of the bus, which is the ODE channel. What were trying to do here is to enable Bus Mastering (the chipset) as well as the two IDE channels, but without drives.

Let Win98 detect Win98 detect the IDE controller, including the Primary and the secondary, but without any drives attached. You're going about it the wrong way. You cannot remove the IDE channel or the bus, its built into the motherboards architecture.
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LokeAdvisorAuthor Commented:
"You cannot remove the IDE channel or the bus, its built into the motherboards architecture."

Ok.

In the end. What do you suggest.

1.Disable everything that has something with IDE in BIOS and leave it with the "!" in Device Manager.

or

2.Enable it, and just leave it there with no disks.


I would have choosen 1. at first since it frees up 2 IRQ's and from what ive heard speeds up the system when you disable the IDE controller.
Only thing i dont like is the "!" in Device manager, but i dont think it matters.
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dew_associatesCommented:
<<In the end. What do you suggest.>>

2.Enable it, and just leave it there with no disks.


<<I would have choosen 1. at first since it frees up 2 IRQ's and from what I've heard speeds up the system when you disable the IDE controller.>>

Actually it doesn't free up any IRQ's as IRQ 14 & 15 are dedicated resources, and most later boards utlize PCI IRQ sharing anyway. Lastly, there's no speed improvement at all when disabling this bus. By opening the front and backside channels you're actually improving performance by making this buffer available. But either way, a scsi based system relies on the scsi and PCI bus's.

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LokeAdvisorAuthor Commented:
Ok. Ill choose option 2 then.
But then i have to reconfigure the ISDN Card to another IRQ since it uses IRQ 15 now.. so IRQ 15 cant be "dedicated" :)

Appreciate all the help i got through this. Thanks Dew and Astaec.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Loke, IRQ 15 can be used (in certain cases) but not dedicated as it is a system reserved IRQ. This is the reason for PCI IRQ sharing.

And, by the way, your welcome. I enjoy people who delve into the unknown, such as scsi.
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Asta CuTechnical consultant & graphic designCommented:
Glad all is well; glad I could help some.  Happy Dennis (Dew-Associates) was successful in bringing this to a satisfactory completion for you, Loke.

Merry Christmas and best wishes,

Asta
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