Memory above 64M

I have Windows 95 OSR 2 on a Tyan S1590s motherboard.  I am running a K6-2/233Mhz processor with 128M of DIMM 10 ns RAM.  

How should I setup windows to run the best?  Should I load himem.sys and is there any particular way that I should load it?  Windows doesn't seem to recognize all of my memory because I sometimes get user resources are low or the system behaves Sluggishly.

I guess the question I am asking is how exactly should I configure my memory settings.  Should I use Himem.sys at all and if so do I need to configure the memory in any special way to get it to recognize all 128M?

Thanks,

SiteMaster
SiteMasterAsked:
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DjamonCommented:
Does the full 128MB of RAM show up when you go to the general tab my right clicking on my computer and going to properties?

If not then you motherboard may not support modules of RAM at 128MB of memory and may only support up to 64MB modules. There is a limit.

My board only supports up to 256MB modules but that because it was just released. You may want to check you motherboard manual to check if they can support modules over 64MB.

Also there may be something in your BIOS that sets the maximum module size.

Apart from setting something up in Windows. There shouldn't be anything.
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j2Commented:
"user resources" is an area of 128kbyte (2 x 64Kbyte actually), regardless of how much ram you have. Badly written programs usually fragments the resources, making a reboot the only option.
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SiteMasterAuthor Commented:
Yes, my full amount of memory does show when I go into the properties.
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SiteMasterAuthor Commented:
Thanks J2,

Is there nothing I can do then?

SiteMaster
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j2Commented:
Not much, but you should definitely not load himem.sys. WHich applications do you normally run?

And above all, do NOT install tons of fonts, as each font uses some GDI-resource-memory.
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Asta CuTechnical consultant & graphic designCommented:
If I may interject; no options to upgrade to Windows 98?  Golly-gee-by-whillikers; what an improvement in all areas of our business; games, etc.

Curious why anyone would still be dealing with the older generation OS when so much improvement in performance has been experienced here (unless you're running only Win95 or backlevel compliant stuff).

Don't mean to butt in with unkindly thoughts, but this gal wonders.

Asta
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SiteMasterAuthor Commented:
I run (in Systray)System Works 2.0, GetRight 4.1.1.1, Audio HQ (SB Live! card), and the Diamond Display Control Program

I Notice the biggest drop when friends play games like Total Ahnilation one it for long amounts of time. (Like when I come home from Work).  

Also, when I am doing web Programming in FP 98 while i have IE 5 &/or Netscape running conquerently.  Other times would be the obvious stuff like editing graphics.
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SiteMasterAuthor Commented:
Hello Asta!!:)

It's no problem, and really there is no option to upgrade to 98..  There isn't much difference between the two anyways.  98 basically has new backgrounds, the menu's open differently, and they allow you to share a couple more things across a peer-to-peer.

I would be willing to admit I am wrong though.

Thanks,

SiteMaster :)
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DjamonCommented:
Sounds like you really have a memory leak. Maybe a fresh new start is the only real option....however you could do a refresh install over your existing 98 files just to try it. Also try and get hold of some of your friends RAM. Put it in and see if there is a difference. Is there is....your RAM could be the problem. If not then its obvious windows.
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j2Commented:
astaec: Win98 has the same 2 x 64Kbyte resource limit. Only NT / Win2k has moved beyond it.
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Asta CuTechnical consultant & graphic designCommented:
Good morning.

The increase in performance on two of two systems that were 95 to 98 upgrades was awesome; especially in the GAMES arena with the same graphic environment and RAM (4MB Video Ram and ATI Expert@play card, and 128MB RAM).  Not like NT, but then it doesn't offer me the kinds of toys, support end-user/home based environment that works for us.  I'm looking forward to the W2K or Millennium product.  I still run lots of older klunker apps, as I like to call them and this is on what I call my patchwork system due to all the testing done on it.  Nonetheless, as much as I've tried messing it up; the Windows 98 OS far surpasses 95 from not only diagnostic support and tools, but true execution time/performance.

Thank goodness for varying views; or how boring this world could become.

Asta
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Asta CuTechnical consultant & graphic designCommented:
BTW, both are also 233Mhz boxes; one a Pentium with Intel MMS, the other a Pentium II / mms - ASUS MBs.
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SiteMasterAuthor Commented:
BTW, I am Running 95 not 98.  The memory should be fine I have had it stress tested and swithced the ram out and same prob.
 I just did a refresh install about two weeks ago. I have notice for example when my brother was over playing Total Ahnilation and he had been playing  on that map for a while it was really sluggish.  Restarting it fixed the prob but TA does not take a lot of memory, it loads once then you play off of that.

Thanks,

SiteMaster
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Asta CuTechnical consultant & graphic designCommented:
Current video/sound drivers and DirectX?  I've only got 4MB of VRAM on the graphics card on a 233 Mhz as well, with 196MB RAM; and had to download installed openGL to play Quake III within Windows 98 (realizing you're running 95).  After playing for a while, get caught sometimes where in play things stall/stutter.  All drivers, etc. current; DirectX finds all OK.  Read on various game sites and knowledge bases that a 233MHZ playing most games (Quake III like) should have at least 8MB of video RAM.  The other alternative they posted at min if only 4MB of video ram is a 266 Mhz processor.  Just as an fyi.
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SiteMasterAuthor Commented:
Thanks Asta,

I have the newest Viper v770 (32MB) Drivers, DirectX/ActiveX 7, Liveware 3.0 for my sound card and the newest drivers for everything that I can.

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SiteMasterAuthor Commented:
Edited text of question.
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Asta CuTechnical consultant & graphic designCommented:
Recall reading about Memory Leaks and the results in the area of Low REsources.  It all surrounds applications that don't properly shut down and give up resources when closed down; as well as others that if you start loading them and prior to their fully loading are stopped, also created tied up resources and the result you've experienced.  

Perhaps I'll find that link and post.  I've had improvements on some older software products when I've searched for and installed patches to upgrade them; in case that's also an option for you - - games included.
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frnzxguyCommented:
ANother thing, System Works is a real memory hog/resource hog as well.  When doing things like games, etc, it is best to shutdown that... I know it affects my system which is similar to yours, and the problem diminshes when I close out the system works.  
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Asta CuTechnical consultant & graphic designCommented:
In troubleshooting some of my own resource issues in re. to another application(Adobe), thought this brief clip may also be helpful (although you may already know all about these things).

To check the available system resources, right-click the My Computer icon, choose Properties from the pop-up menu, and then click the Performance tab.


You can increase the percentage of system resources available by closing applications, reducing the number of applications that start automatically with Windows, disabling utilities (e.g., Adobe Type Manager), reducing the number of fonts installed, or restarting Windows frequently.


To reduce the number of applications that start automatically with Windows, remove them from the StartUp group:
1. Choose Start > Settings > Taskbar & Start Menu.
2. Select the Start Menu Programs tab in the Taskbar Properties dialog box.
3. Click Remove.
4. In the Remove Shortcuts/Folders dialog box, double-click the StartUp folder.
5. Select each item in the StartUp folder, then click Remove.
6. Click Close, then click OK to exit from the Taskbar Properties dialog box.


If your Windows system resources continue to fall lower than 55%, contact Microsoft. Or, if Windows was preinstalled on your computer, contact the manufacturer of your computer (e.g., Compaq, Dell, or Hewlett-Packard).


C. Restart your computer regularly.
Application and system processes are performed in RAM. As you use the computer, RAM can become fragmented or temporarily lost -- that is, large contiguous blocks of RAM are not available for additional processes. For example, some RAM may become unavailable if an application does not fully release its memory when it quits. If RAM is fragmented or lost, there may not be enough free memory to start applications, and processes performed in RAM may be adversely affected. Restarting the computer restores RAM and re-creates the Windows swap file, which Windows uses as virtual memory. Be sure to restart your computer after you receive any operating system error.


To avoid fragmentation or loss of RAM, we recommend restarting the computer at least twice each day (e.g., in the morning and when you return from lunch). If you use many applications during the day, you may need to restart more frequently. If restarting your computer regularly eliminates the errors, RAM fragmentation may have caused the errors you were receiving.


To restart your computer:
1. Exit from all applications.
2. Choose Start > Shut Down.
3. Select Restart, and then click Yes.


D. Make sure there is a valid temporary folder on the system and sufficient hard disk space available to it.
Windows, InDesign, and other Windows applications use temporary files to store changes made to publications since they were last saved, and to spool information for printing. InDesign also creates temporary files when it starts, when you open or create InDesign documents, and when you print. If there is not enough hard disk space for these temporary files, the system may return errors. A good rule of thumb is to have 10% of your total hard disk space capacity available.

---

I was trying to retrieve the document which addressed the various samplings of programs known to cause the memory leak within this environment; and add to the low resource problem.  However, keep getting the http server busy routine.







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Adam LeinssServer SpecialistCommented:
Windows 9x, as an operating system, is known to have memory leaks.  You might be better off waiting for Windows 2000 (NT 5) on Feburary 17th.  Been running it with 256 mbs and it runs superb.  Windows 9x doesn't to justice to any memory above 96 mbs.  Just mi opiniono.

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Asta CuTechnical consultant & graphic designCommented:
Great thing to look forward to, Aleinss.
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gonzal13RetiredCommented:
press CTRL ALT DEL  when pc is started up and mark down what is listed, see what can be removed. Now when it starts to slow down do the same thing and see what is listed. Remove those items not needed by going to RUN.

c:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSCONFIG.EXE and check of items that you donot needed to be loaded at start up. Just going to start up may be deceiving since it does not reflect items loaded and items that were used and never given back.

Go to Windows, Dos. type mem /c /p
See how much conventional memory you have. You can get up to 620 with a small amount of work. You will probagly need to press return twice to get to the end of the display.

Now someone mentioned an HP PC if I am not mistaken. I have noticed that a cd_ROM driver is added to low mem and then a comment to REM it out. So CD  to c: type edit config.sys
see if you have  device=xxx.CD_ROM.xxx, if so, just erase it or put a REM before the line and a space.

Windows does need a config. sys especially if you add hardware that uses dos drivers.

You should have something like this in your config sys.

DEVICE=HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=EMM386.EXE
DOS=HIGH,UMB
FILESHIGH=40 (NUMBER USES AS AN EXAMPLE)BUFFERSHIGH=40
DEVICE=XXXX FOR EXAMPLE FOR A MS DOS HARDWARE. Change it to DEVICEHIGH=XXXX
LASTDRIVEHIGH=J (About two letters below your last piece of hardware.


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gonzal13RetiredCommented:
Oh, just to be sure that your PC is not lying to you when it says 128, go to the bios and be sure it is set for above 64megs.
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SiteMasterAuthor Commented:
Where would it say that?  In the memory information it shows greater than 64M (Where it shows conventional/extended).
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SiteMasterAuthor Commented:
I am starting to get confused with these conflicting answers.  

Should I use himem or not? Do I need to do anything to get himem to recognize that much memory?  What can I do with the OS that I have right now.?

My Tyan S1590s motherboard doesn't seem to have any probs. handling that much memory I have checked their site and there is no report of these kind of problems.  And it will support up to a 475Mhz AMD proccessor.

I have tested the memory and it came up fine.  

HELP!!
Thanks,

SiteMaster
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Adam LeinssServer SpecialistCommented:
Well, Windows 9x has to load HIMEM.SYS, otherwise it won't boot.  Yet, it does this internally, you don't need an explicit statement in the CONFIG.SYS.

As to the memory leaks, well, I got them too w/ an Athlon 700 and 256 mbs of RAM.  Windows 9x is inherently naughty at not giving memory back after you close out applications.  I'm sure if I searched long enough, I could find the technical reason for this for you.  It has something to do with the heap running out before the main memory does.
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SiteMasterAuthor Commented:
The answers received weren't exactly what I was looking for but it is enough information to probably get me working.

Thanks,

SiteMaster
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Asta CuTechnical consultant & graphic designCommented:
Interesting thread and flow of events.  Bottom line, sounds like you're pleased.  Good news and with that, best wishes,

Asta
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gonzal13RetiredCommented:
ELIENESS: Is right. When one installs Winows 98, Config.sy and autoexec.bat
can be blank. Only reason I uses it because some programs are finiky when being used off the cr-rom and want alot of conventional memory. I also check frequently what is loaded into memory that I am not using when I get into a problem, just By press CTRL ALT DEL.

Oh, I did not read all the resonses, so if I am rewording someone's comments , please excusem. Some time my anxiety get to me.
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