Suspend/Standy Explorer crash on restart

Such a basic problem (and common, apparently), but this has flummoxed Microsoft and my hardware support guys as well.  Can anyone help?!

I have an HP Pavilion 8519: PIII550, 128Mb, 13Gb, Win98SE.  Standard h/w except for a Matrox Millenium G400 32Mb and HP SCSI/ScanJet.  Also a DeskJet 970Cxi running off USB.  Various software like Norton SystemWorks 2000 and Office 2000, but that's irrelevant as you'll see.

Suspend starts correctly, but usually (9 times out of 10) when I restart, something crashes Explorer (Program Manager).  This usually happens when the screen is still off and I have to hit Return (presumably for 'Close Program') before the screen springs to life again.

Once it happens once, suspend then works fine.  It seems to crash the offending driver or program and then it's happy.  problem is, I can't work out what that damn offending item is!

By the way, this only happens if I disable 'Load Power Management' from automatic startup.  With Power management loaded, the system just hangs and will not resume.

Before you start wondering what programs might be causing all this, I have used msconfig to disable all initialisation files, registry Runs, etc.  And then it still happens with only Explorer, msgloop, and msg32 running.

What about hardware?  I have disabled and/or removed virtually every selectable item of hardware (that I dare) and rebooted and it STILL happens.

I.e. with virtually no drivers except the minimum and no other programs running the problem still recurs.

So - can anyone suggest anything?  I really want to get this feature working.

Thanks!
mark_ottawayAsked:
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark_ottaway, Try followings.

1)  Go to the CMOS/BIOS by pressing <DEL> or <F2> or <F10> depends on your computer. At the <Power management page> configuration. <Enabled> the power management and its related suspend mode for system, hard disk and monitor and others e.g. modem. If there is a setting for suspend video into blank screen, enabled it.
     Go to the <Plug and Play> configuration, [Turn On] or [Enabled] the Plug and Play OS function.
Save the changes and exit the CMOS/BIOS.

2)  Restart the PC from cold boot. Go to the command mode,
    Do registry repair/fixing:-
    At C:\ prompt, type "SCANDISK /ALL" (without quotation), <ENTER> , it will scan the disk and repair, if any.
    At C:\ prompt, type "SCANREG /FIX" (without quotation), <ENTER> , it will update and fix the registry of system.dat and user.dat.
    Following the instruction.

    Restart Pc and go into safe mode, if run OK. Go to the device manager. Expand all devices including the system and remove all duplicates items of devices e.g. duplicate entries of Advanced power management Support.
    Then restart and go into the normal desktop.

3) At the normal mode, go to the control panel, power management icon, enable the power management scheme.

    Enable by checked the box for loading [x] LoadPowerProfile Rundll32.exe powrprof.dll,LoadCurrentPwrScheme in the Msconfig-startup. There  will be 2 duplicate lines, checked both boxes.  

    Go to the control panel, disabled the screen saver.

Restart the computer.

Inspect any improvement or not and let me know your test status.  pslh
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dew_associatesCommented:
Mark, suspend, as in suspend to disk or suspend to ram is a function of the ACPI power function, not power management. HP's suspend to ram, in essence, when you go to suspend, your system dumps everything in ram except what you are working on, which is then retained in ram until you come back out.

With power management enabled, this cannot occur has your bios is now handling power management instead of windows.

Diable power management and then set your power and suspend settings within the windows environment and let me know how it reacts.
Dennis
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Thanks to both of you for your comments.

Dennis - I had tried that before to no avail.

However, I have just tried PSLH's suggestions and I think he may have fixed it!  He's a genius!  (I'll hold off on accepting the answer for a bit longer if you don't mind as I thought I had fixed it before but it came back overnight!)

I had done everything that PSLH had suggested before EXCEPT for deletion of absolutely ALL duplicates under Safe Mode Device Manager.  This took ages and Win98 just added back most of the duplicates but somewhere in there the fix was lurking.

A couple of suspends later and everything seems to be working well.

THANKS SO MUCH PSLH - I'll come back tomorrow and confirm.

Mark
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dew_associatesCommented:
Well Mark, if there are duplicates and they return, that can be fixed as well. Let us know!
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
I'll say it again - you're a genius.  THANKS!
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dew_associatesCommented:
Nicely done Pat!
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Thanks Mark and Dennis!
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dew_associatesCommented:
Mark, you can continue on at this question and delete the one you just posted.

Earlier I mentioned to you to go into the system Bios and disable power management and acpi functions and then boot into windows and handle the power management functions from within windows only. Have you tried this, and if so, which functions did you choose in the windows power management setup?
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dew_associatesCommented:
By the way, that system didn't come with the computer originally did it?
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark, we will continue here.
Thanks very much Dennis and I need your help as got fever 6hr ago and need to take pills! I'll try my best to keep my mind up and clear.
Thanks again.    pslh

----
Mark, repeat what Dennis suggested and tell us what was found?

Meanwhile, I would like you to check once again and compare both normal desktop and safe mode. The system devices in the device manager. Click into each device properties and checking the driver date (all should be 4-23-1999 for your win98SE).
E.g. ACPI system button
Driver- dated 4-23-1999

Besides above, you may have several ACPI bios, several Composite power source, several numeric processor, several system board extension for ACPI BIOS, duplicate system timer, duplicate CMOS/BIOS real time clock, several Plug and Play BIOS.

If date is pre-may-1998, you have to delete it in safe mode.

If you have found there is no such item in system devices of normal desktop but there is such an item in the safe mode, delete the one in safe mode.

Window98SE will detect all those with date 4-23-1999.

Also, checking with the web site, if you have newer improved update version for flashing the CMOS/BIOS.      

Checking if you have any firewall type program enabled.
Checking if you have enabled the windowUpdate notification. Either disabled/uninstall it or go to the WindowUpdate site to download the version 3.0 above.
Checking if you have the update driver of Matrox Millenium G400. Matrox Millenium is using a VIA chipset which is previously having some problems. Download this version and see if any improvement.
  BETA   5.50.005       11/Jan/00    Win98
http://www.matrox.com/mga/drivers/latest_drivers/home.htm

-----
pslh
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Hello Pat and Dennis

You're generous people - I certainly appreciate it!

I will take up these suggestions tonight when I get back to the PC.  It's probably best if I do that and then answer your questions, Dennis.  That way I can give you a full answer.  (I've tried all sorts of BIOS/Win98 combinations to fix this.)

Anyway, sincere thanks - fingers crossed!  I have done many of these things already (like the latest Matrox drivers), but I'll check it all out.

Two snippets FYI. First, I left the computer on overnight and it crashed for some reason.  This morning upon reboot suspend is working fine again!

I have therefore taken a full snapshot of the computer including registry so that (hopefully)I can see what changes if (when!) Suspend starts failing again.  I've also done a full backup to tape just to make sure I can roll back!

Second, although I have not found the screen saver to affect the Suspend operation, I noticed that every time I tried a suspend and it didn't work (i.e. I had to hard reboot), the screen saver had been disabled - no matter what its state prior to the crash.  probably irrelevant, but worth a mention.

Thanks again guys, and I'll try those things you suggest then reply to the various questions in full.
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dew_associatesCommented:
It is very worthwhile to mention these things. Based upon certain bios's you can't implement a screensaver and a suspend state as the conflict with either acpi or apm.
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark, Have you enabled the task scheduler? Disabled all of them.

If you have any task in scheduler which is going to carry out in an idle state e.g. scandisk, defrag, diskclean, background update (norton liveupdate, windowupdate etc.), your power management should be disabled as Dennis said and changed in windows control panel-power management into: -
power scheme-never
system turn off - never
monitor turn off - never
hard disk turn off - never

Turn on your screen saver, set the tasks not overlapping in times.
In such a case, your computer do not enter into any suspend mode.

pslh
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Hello again, Pat and Dennis.

There's so much here to investigate, I'll need the weekend at least.  (My family aren't too keen on me siting at this thing 24 hours a day!)

Thanks again and I'll get back to you.

Might be a few days - I just didn't want you to think I wasn't heeding your advice nor that I wasn't grateful for it!

The computer seems to be still suspending okay, so I'll be interested in watching it over the next few days.

Cheers,

Mark
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dew_associatesCommented:
Not a problem Mark!
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Greetings Pat and Dennis (from the other side of the world, by the way - New Zealand).

We had a glorious summer weekend and I spent too much of it on this problem!  However I have made substantial progress.

I now know WHAT is causing the problem, although I cannot fix it: the Matrox Millenium G400 graphics video card!

I monitored the registry and other key system areas for changes when suspend stopped working and managed to work backwards to the Matrox.

To confirm this, I then uninstalled it completely and suspend worked like a dream again when using the on-board Nvidia card.

I noted Pat's earlier comments on the Matrox but I have confirmed (and even re-downloaded) that the drivers are the latest (5.50.005 Beta) and that the Matrox BIOS is right up-to-date as well (1.5-22).

Not much more I can do but wait for Matrox's response I suppose.  I have submitted a Technical Support Resuest to them.

Sorry if I led you on a bit of a wild goose chase.  It certainly wasn't obvious that the problems started when I installed the Matrox.

Sincere thanks again for your generous help.

Mark
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark,
I did recall from a survey in May 1999 and one of my PAQ that there is no way to correct this Matrox Millenium card as Matrox is using one of the VIA chipset for its AGP function for brand Millenium which Matrox is a bit out of hand.

Here are the kindly feedbacks of that questioner to me.

> I have concluded that the video card must be the culprit.  It is a new
> Matrox Millenium II G200 AGP card.  After two weeks of asking I finally got
> Matrox to curtly answer my question about whether their card is
> GreenPC/DPMS compatible.  Their answer was that it did not support this
> "option"

-----
You may try to using resolution 800x600 256 colors or 1024x768 256 colors to check if there is any improvement.

Go to the CMOS/BIOS (what manufacturer?) and go to the power management page. Inspect if there is any setting for the Video off method.
[x] "Suspend -> Off"  << Monitor blanked when system enters Suspend mode. >> 
[x] "DPMS Suspend"  << Select this option if your monitor supports the Display Power Management Signaling (DPMS) standard of the Video Electronics Standards Association (VESA). Use the software supplied for your video subsystem to select video power management values. >> 
   
Or you may try to change to [x] " Blank Screen" and test.        


Or go to the display of control panel, if your Matrox Millenium card has some utility for you to adjust the AGP function.
E.g. Set the hardware acceleration to 85Mhz in refresh rate and performance.
       Select Use Flat Alpha for Gouraud Alpha Blending.
       Select Synchronize Screen Update with Refresh rate.
       For OpenGL, select Texture Compression and Bilinear Filtering.

Set your monitor too using refresh rate 85Mhz.

Moreover, do you have any Photoshop programs?

pslh
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Hi Pat

I'll try these suggestions tonight.  Thanks!

My Phoenix BIOS does not have any power settings for video.  I can change the various Matrox refresh settings, etc, so I'll try those.

Another thought - the Matrox shares IRQ10 with a number of other system functions.  (I'll have to look up what they are when I get back to the PC.)  Could thius be causing a problem?

I actually tried manually setting the Matrix IRQ but I haven't been able to do it yet.  Nor can I change the IRQs for the other items on IRQ10 - they're all automatically allocated.

Don't know if this could be relevant perhaps?

Mark
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark,

You may try to download this utility to reset the Matrox MG400 bios. Then update to the newest version **MGA G400 BIOS version 1.5.22 (if newer)

http://www.matrox.com/mga/drivers/files/ftp_util2.htm

Latest additions
resetbios.zip Jan. 20, 2000
1.0 MB  For G-Series graphics cards only.
This utility will restore your Matrox Graphics card's BIOS to the factory settings. Please read the readme file contained within the zip file.
They must be unzipped using the -D option.
------

You may also have a look at these patches, some may have improvement in performance for MG400.
http://www.matrox.com/mga/drivers/patch_demos/patches.htm

See if any improvement.  pslh
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Hi Pat

Ok - to answer you various questions & suggestions, etc.

First, there is an ACPI IRQ Holder using the same IRQ as the matrox.  Do you think that is relevant?  (Not that I know how to change its IRQ though!)

The full list of IRQ10 deivices is:

- ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI Steering
- Rockwell HCF 56K Data Fax PCI Modem
- Rockwell PCI Modem Enumerator
- Master Riptide PCI Audio Device
- Matrox Millenium G400 Dual Head English

I see from Matrox's support site that they sometimes suggest putting the Matrox on its own IRQ.  How do I do that when I have system devices that are not changeable also on IRQ10 and I have no spare IRQs?!

Also (re: your other comments) ...

* Setting 256 colours may help with suspend but it would be no good for anything else.  I'd rather do without suspend!

* My BIOS is by Phoenix.

* There are no monitor/video settings within the BIOS.

* The Matrox allows a lot of changes to the monitor settings, but none of the ones you list for the AGP itself I'm afraid.

* I don't have any Photoshop running.

* My Matrox BIOS is already 1.5.22.

* I have had a look at the patches before and none are relevant.

Thanks again.

Mark
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dew_associatesCommented:
Mark, go into device manager and click once on Computer to highlight and then click the properties button. Are there any open IRQ's?
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Hello Dennis

No, there are no free IRQs.

Mark
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dew_associatesCommented:
Okay Mark, than list here what devices are on what IRQ's and we'll see what can be shuffled.
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Okay - here goes!

(If you do suggest a change, though, can you explain how to change IRQs for devices which don't allow changing of the IRQ from within Device Manager?  Ta!)

0 System Timer

1 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural Keyboard

2 Programmable Interrupt Controller

3 Communications Port (COM2)

4 Communications Port (COM1)

5 Riptide PCI Audio Legacy Resources

6 Standard Floppy Disk Controller

7 Printer Port (LPT1).**

8 System CMOS/real time clock

9 ACPI IRQ Holder for IRQ Steering
9 SCI IRQ used by ACPI bus
9 Intel 82371AB/EB PCI to USB Universal Host Controller

10 ACPI IRQ Holder for IRQ Steering
10 Rockwell HCF 56K Data Fax PCI Modem
10 Rockwell PCI Modem Enumerator
10 Master Riptide PCI Audio Device
10 Matrox Millenium G400 Dual Head - English

11 Symbios Logic 53416 SCSI Adapter (for HP ScanJets)

12 PS/2 Compatible Mouse Port

13 Numeric data processor

14 Primary IDE Controller (dual fifo)
14 Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller

15 Secondary IDE Controller (dual fifo)
15 Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller

** I actually run my printer off USB as you can see.  I only use the LPT1 port occasionally for direct connection to my laptop under Symantec pcAnywhere32.

Thanks once again, Dennis (& Pat).

Mark
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dew_associatesCommented:
It looks like we may have to manually allocate a PCI slot to to that Matrox card from the looks of those resources. How many PCI and EISA slots does the motherboard have?
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark, in additional to Dennis'?, What is now inserted in the AGP, PCI and EISA slots. Is there any onboard sound or graphic devices?


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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Hi Pat

AGP: Matrox Millenium G400
PCI: 1 x modem card, 2 x spare
ISA: HP Scanner SCSI Adapter

And yes there are onboard graphics and sound cards:

Sound: Rockwell Riptide

Graphics: Nvidia Riva TNT video graphics (8Mb)

The system automatically removed the onboard graphics card when I installed the Matrox.  I have not changed anything manually (and there are no motherboard jumpers to switch on this PC - I checked with hardware support before installing).

Mark
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark,
You have 2 graphic devices. It looks like there are one monitor.
The original on board monitor connector (for Nvidia Riva TNT) is not connected to any monitor?
Your monitor is connected to the Matrox card monitor connector?
Nvidia Riva TNT is AGP or not?
Why there are 2 PCI slots (no more 3 or four?)

----
(1) I suggest unplug all cards modem and SCSI, including the Matrox. Remove all their corresponding devices drivers.

(2) Go to the CMOS/BIOS, disabled the onboard sound.

(3) Insert the Matrox into AGP slot. It will be detected and Install the driver. Restart the computer.
Next, Uninstall the driver.
Reset MatroxMG400 Bios by flashing with the "resetbios.zip Jan. 20, 2000. "
Restart and re-install the driver.

See what IRQ it takes.

(4) Enable the onboard sound. Window will detect it and install driver.
See what IRQ it takes.

Run your computer and test overnight with suspend feature.

(5) If suspend is Okay, reinstall the other card.

      PCI slot 1 is normally reserved for the PCI graphic card. Though you may not have one, better not to use it by any other additional cards like modem, network, SCSI card.
      Insert the modem card into PCI slot 2 or slot 3.
      Reinstall the driver again.
See what IRQ it takes.
Run your computer and test overnight with suspend feature.
     
      If suspend is Okay, reinstall the SCSI card.
See what IRQ it takes.
Run your computer and test overnight with suspend feature.

-----
Dennis, is that approach appropriate or not?   TIA    pslh
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dew_associatesCommented:
I agree Pslh, for some reason there are PCI assignments that shouldn't be there.
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Ok guys.  Thanks.  I'll get back to you in a couple of days when I've tried all this.

Mark
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
I sat down to get started and found a couple of immediate problems with following your instructions, Pat.

First there is no BIOS setting which allows me to disable the on-board sound (nor the on-board graphics card for that matter).

The machine is too new for Hewlett Packard to have the motherboard diagrams as yet, so I have to contact the motherboard supplier tomorrow and ask them how to do it!

Before I follow your instructions, I might just try disabling the on-board graphics card straight away.  You say that I have two showing (how can you tell?).  Must be a pretty good chance that the problem is there, perhaps?

If that fails, I'll go through the rest of it and record the results.

Mark
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
I sat down to get started and found a couple of immediate problems with following your instructions, Pat.

First there is no BIOS setting which allows me to disable the on-board sound (nor the on-board graphics card for that matter).

The machine is too new for Hewlett Packard to have the motherboard diagrams as yet, so I have to contact the motherboard supplier tomorrow and ask them how to do it!

Before I follow your instructions, I might just try disabling the on-board graphics card straight away.  You say that I have two showing (how can you tell?).  Must be a pretty good chance that the problem is there, perhaps?

If that fails, I'll go through the rest of it and record the results.

Mark
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Hmmm - not going well here.

I've just talked to the 'technical guy' at the motherboard place and he says there is no motherboard switches for turnign off the on-board video card.  (Nor sound.)

So - as there's no way to do this through the BIOS nor directly on the motherboard what on earth do I do?!

A thought: if you can tell me what IRQ devices look like they're from the on-board Nvidia graphics card, why don't I just disable them from within Win98's Device Manager and reboot.  They may still be there, but at least they won't be actually using the IRQ.

I can also move that modem PCI card and see if it gets a different IRQ as a result.

Your thoughts?  (Or is this starting to take too much of your time?  I am sorry about all this!)

Mark
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark, Do you know the motherboard maker and model number?
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dew_associatesCommented:
Mark, go into device manager and expand that device area. Now highlight that device and click properties. In the General section there should be a box to diable that device. You will need to put the Matrox in before doing this.
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Pat

The motherboard is an Asus Harrier P2BVT (P2B is the standard m/b, VT is apparently the HP variant).

Dennis

I'm okay on using the device manager to disable devices.  I am querying WHAT exactly I should disable as the on-board device that may be causing the problem is no longer showing in Device manager BUT you both felt that it was still getting some IRQ resources.  (see your last comment.)

What, exactly, should I disable do you think?

Mark
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
At the risk of rambling on, one more update.

While waiting for your answer to the above question, I manually disabled both the PCI modem card and the Riptide audio device as these were sharing the IRQ with the Matrox.  That left the only other item on there the ACPI IRQ Holder for IRQ steering.

No difference - the system still failed to suspend correctly.

Is it fair, therefore, to assume that neither the modem nor the sound card installations are the problem?
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark, have you move the internal PCI modem card to PCI slot 2 before above testing?
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
A proper summary:

1. Removed all cards and uninstalled associated device drivers.  Removing the modem also removed the sound card and IRQs, etc.

2. As I cannot disable the onboard video card manually, I deleted the device (releasing the IRQs) and shut down.

3. Installed Matrox into AGP and booted/installed then uninstalled.  Reset BIOS to factory defaults and then re-installed.

4. This resulted in the Matrox being given IRQ 10.  It is still sharing this with ACPI IRQ Holder for IRQ Steering.  I cannot stop this happenign as it is automatically allocated by Win98.

5. The system STILL did not suspend correctly.  (i.e. with only the Matrox installed).

6. Installed Modem back on to PCI 2.  This has now been allocated IRQ11 and the sound has been split across IRQ 11 and IRQ 5 (which was my old SCSI IRQ).

7. Installed SCSI and this has been allocated IRQ 11 as well, but it seems to still work okay, despite the large number of devices usign this interrupt.

The later information is pretty irrelevant to this probolem as the system is failing to suspend even when the Matrox has an almost dedicated IRQ.

If I have to remove that last ACPI device on IRQ 10, how do I do that?!

Getting nowhere fast, huh?!

Mark
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark, post your details listed in the CMOS/BIOS in the Power management Setup.
Checking if there are terms in the Chipset page - Memory hole, Graphic Aperture Size. and the page of Plug and Play setup.

List the system devices of device manager in safe mode and post it here for us to have a look.
 
5. The system STILL did not suspend correctly.  (i.e. with only the Matrox installed). Is there any shortcut for Matrox in the msconfig-startup tab?
Start-run, type "msconfig" without the quotation mark. OK to open the system configuration utility.

pslh
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Ok - take a deep breath ...!

1. BIOS

There are no BIOS options for 'chipset' or 'Plug and Play'.

The only vaguely relevant ones are one for selecting and ISA graphics device (disabled) and others for restricting the IRQs and UMB as 'Reserved' for legacy devices.  Both are disbled.

The Power saving page is as follows, with other options in brackets:

Power Savings: Disabled (also 'Customised', 'Maximum Power Savings', 'Maximum Performance').

Auto Suspend Timeout: Off (also '5' - '60' minutes).

Hard Disk Timeout: Disabled (also '10 seconds' - '15 minutes').

  IDE Primary Master: Enabled (also 'Disabled').  [i.e. Keeps system awake if IDE Primary Master shows any activity.]

  IDE Primary Slave: Disabled (also 'Enabled').

  IDE Secondary Master: Disabled (also 'Enabled').

  IDE Secondary Slave: Disabled (also 'Enabled').

Power Button Behaviour: On/Off (also 'Sleep/Wake').

Restore on AC/Power Loss: Stay Off (also 'Reboot').

Resume On Time: Off (also 'On').

Resume Time: 00:00:00


2. SYSTEM DEVICES IN DEVICE MANAGER

(where more than one are present this is indicated by 'x number')

ACPI Generic Bus x 2

CPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering x 5

ACPI Power Button

ACPI System Button

Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) BIOS

Composite Power Source

Direct Memory Access Controller x 2

Intel 82371EB PCI to ISA bridge (ISA mode)

Intel 82371EB Power Management Controller

Intel 82443BX Pentium(r) II Processor to AGP Controller

Intel 82443BX Pentium(r) II Processor to PCI bridge (with GART support)

Intel 82801AA LPC Interface Controller

Intel 82801AA PCI Bridge

Intel 82810 System and Graphics Controller

IO read data port for ISA Plus and Play enumerator

IRQ Holder for PCI Steering x 4

Motherboard Resources x 7

Numeric data processor x 2

PCI bus x 2

PCI standard host CPU bridge

PCI standard PCI-to-PCI bridge

Plug and Play Software Device Enumerator

Processor Support

Programmable Interrupt Controller x 2

SCI IRQ used by ACPI bus

SIS PCI to ISA bridge

SIS PMU device

System board

System board extension for PnP BIOS

System board CMOS/real time clock x 2

System speaker x 2

System timer x 2


3. STARTUP PROGRAMS

There is a Matrox item in the registry startup Run (msconfig).  This is somethign called Matrox Powerdesk.  It is a utility that sits in the systray and gives access to a few Win98 and Matrox utilities (none significant).  The suspend problem occurs irrespective of whether this is running.  I have tried removing it and it makes no difference.


Anything of interest in all that?!

Mark
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark, as I perceive we can do something for that. I'll revert this later.

I thought you're in Auckland. It should be great if I could have a vacation in Queenstown for a few days now and enjoying the ice creams sitting leisurely next to the Lake.
pslh
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Yes - you're right, Pat.  I'm in Auckland and Queenstown would be a lovely spot for some leisurely ice cream right now!

(Especially if I could fixed this darned problem and relax!!)

Look forwrad to your next suggestions - and (to repeat, I know) I do really appreciate your time.

Mark
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dew_associatesCommented:
How are we doing with this Mark?
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Hi Dennis

How are we doing?  I'm awaiting the next round of suggestions!

Pat asked for some detailed information after all the previous suggestions came to nought and I've supplied that above.

Otherwise I'm stuck.  Nothing seems to make the difference with the Matrox card installed.  Pat hinted that there is something to look at in my BIOS or Device Manager ("as I perceive we can do something for that I'll revert this later"), but not sure what he means yet.

Any ideas from you, Dennis?  Anything and everything gratefully received!!

Mark
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dew_associatesCommented:
Mark, Pslh is a she! And I've read through the recent posts and I don't want to intrude on what she is doing as it is a good course of action. I'll stand by though.
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Oops - Patricia or Patsy or something else, not Patrick?!

Sorry Pat.  I shouldn't have assumed!

Anyway - I'll stand by, too.  I certainly won't rush you.
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark, I am Patricia- a Hong Kong Chinese lady.

This Friday is our Lunar New Year. I've to rush to settle all financial transactions before our bankers are going for their long public holidays.

Sorry for a bit delay in my response.

Patricia/pslh
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Hi Patricia

I do so appreciate your (and Dennis's) help.  Don't fret about getting back on my case - whenever you're able is great!

Cheers,

Mark
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Pat and Dennis

Don't know if this is a red herring or not, but I'll mention it.

In exasperation I called Matrox (in Canada) a couple of times about this.  The second guy I spoke to seemed to know exactly what I was talking about and said I need to work out whether I had a Via or an Ali chipset and then download the latest patch from their web site.

Problem is, I have a "genuine Intel chipset" according to Hewlett Packard, not Via nor Ali.  (It's an Intel 440BX model.)

I checked Intel's web site but couldn't see anything of relevance except perhaps something they call the INF utility but it didn't see to be relevant to ACPI and I was reluctant to just try it for the sake of an experiment.

Is this worth pursuing perhaps?

Mark
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dew_associatesCommented:
It sounds like he was just trying to be helpful. I don't know enough about the HP systems in order to delineate what is actually on the motherboard. Has HP been any help at all?
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark,  

Power Savings: [Customised]
Auto Suspend Timeout:  [60]
Hard Disk Timeout:  [15 minutes]
  IDE Primary Master: [Enabled]   [i.e. Keeps system awake if IDE Primary Master shows any activity.]
  IDE Primary Slave:    [Enabled]
  IDE Secondary Master:  [Enabled]
  IDE Secondary Slave:  [Enabled]

2. SYSTEM DEVICES IN DEVICE MANAGER

(where more than one are present this is indicated by 'x number'), <<check by clicking into each device and see the driver date. Keep the driver date of 04-23-99. Delete the remainings by [remove] button, remove all these in safe mode. Restart the computer to normal mode. Then go back to safe mode again to reconfirm extra devices are successfully removed. >> 

ACPI Generic Bus x 1         [ 2 -> 1  may need to upgrade from intel as none is needed]

ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering x 5   [ 5 -> 1 need to upgrade from intel - IRQ used by ACPI bus]

ACPI Power Button

ACPI System Button

Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) BIOS

Composite Power Source

Direct Memory Access Controller x 2             [ 2 -> 1 ]

Intel 82371EB PCI to ISA bridge (ISA mode)

Intel 82371EB Power Management Controller    [remove this, let it re-detect if needed]

Intel 82443BX Pentium(r) II Processor to AGP Controller

Intel 82443BX Pentium(r) II Processor to PCI bridge (with GART support)

Intel 82801AA LPC Interface Controller

Intel 82801AA PCI Bridge

Intel 82810 System and Graphics Controller    [remove this, let it re-detect if needed]

IO read data port for ISA Plus and Play enumerator

IRQ Holder for PCI Steering x 4                [remove this, let it re-detect if needed]

Motherboard Resources x 7                      [ 7 -> 1 ]

Numeric data processor x 2                      [ 2 -> 1 ]

PCI bus x 2                                               [ 2 -> 1 ]

PCI standard host CPU bridge                    [remove this, let it re-detect if needed. need upgrade fm intel]

PCI standard PCI-to-PCI bridge                  [remove this, let it re-detect if needed. need upgrade fm intel]

Plug and Play Software Device Enumerator  [remove this, let it re-detect if needed. need upgrade fm intel]

Processor Support

Programmable Interrupt Controller x 2        [ 2 -> 1 ]

SCI IRQ used by ACPI bus

SIS PCI to ISA bridge

SIS PMU device

System board

System board extension for PnP BIOS          [=> System board extension for ACPI BIOS x 2, need upgrade]

System board CMOS/real time clock x 2       [ 2 -> 1 ]

System speaker x 2                                     [ 2 -> 1 ]

System timer x 2                                          [ 2 -> 1 ]

----------

Go to the power management in control panel.
Power scheme [always on]
System standby [never]
Turn off monitor [After 20 min.]
Turn off hard disks [After 1 hour]

Restart the computer.

See if any help.

-------------
Also check with the Intel web site,
http://support.intel.com/sites/support/index.htm
There are several types of motheboard for Intel 440BX. Try to identify and check with all bios, driver and upgrade with the latest version.

You may tell us what exactly the motherboard is so that we can inspect further down on that page.

pslh
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Dennis and Pat

I need a bit more guidance please:

I cannot work out where I should download the drivers that you've marked 'upgrade from Intel' Pat.

The PC is an HP Pavilion 8519.

The Processor is a PIII550MHz (Intel 440BX).

However, the motherboard is not Intel, it's ASUS.  The type is "Harrier" P2BVT (same as P2B I believe).

The BIOS is a Phoenix Bios version 1.05.

So where do I go for the drivers/devices you've mentioned?  I've tried all these manufacturer sites and cannot see any downloads that fit your directions.

Sorry folks - I'm a bit stuck and I don't want to follow your instructions until I have the downloads I need.

Dennis - Hewlett Packard have been friendly but unable to help, especially as the problem relates to a peripheral.

Mark
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dew_associatesCommented:
Mark, you'll find the bios upgrades here:

http://www.asus.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/slot1.html


And make sure that you also download the latest bios flash utility as well:

http://www.asus.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/bios.html

And you may want to read the How To as well!
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Ok - latest update ...

1. UPDATE BIOS, ETC

Thanks for the pointers on the Intel site, Dennis.  Problem is, none of the flash files match the motherboard I have (P2B-VT).  The closest seems ot be a P2B-VM which also has on-board audio, BUT I am very hesitant to install a non-specified BIOS update, knowing the problems it can cause.

The only properly specified flash updates I can find are on HP's site (remember that the 'VT' motherboard is an HP variant).  There was a minor update recently available but that has made no difference so far.

2. REMOVING DEVICES, ETC

There's something really strange going on.

In Safe Mode, I checked all the dates and removed devices exactly as per your instructions, Pat.  (I wasn't able to upgrade, as noted above, but otherwise exactly as you instructed.)

As soon as I reboot, it goes through a long sequence of adding devices back in again and then asks for a reboot.

While there were some changes from the configuration I listed for you last week, most of the repeated device drivers come right back again in Safe Mode.

Here are the ones I changed:

 ACPI Generic Bus (back to 2 again)

 Direct Memory Access Controller (2)

 Intel 82371EB Power Management Controller (1 - re-detected)

 Intel 82810 System and Graphics Controller (0 - stayed removed)

 IRQ Holder for PCI Steering (0 - stayed removed)

 Motherboard Resources (4 - was 7)

 Numeric Data Procesor (2)

 PCI Bus (2)

 PCI standard host CPU bridge (0 - stayed removed)

 Plug and Play Software Device Enumerator (0 - stayed removed)

 Programmable Interrupt Controller (2)

 System Board Extension for PnP BIOS (1)

 System board CMOS/real time clock (2)

 System speaker (2)

 System timer (2)

I something wrong here?

3. STANDBY

And to state the obvious, I followed all the instructions (above plus BIOS pwer management and Windows power management) and none of the changes I made fixed the standby problem.  It still will not return from suspend.

:-(

Mark
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark,
<<Numeric Data Procesor (2)
  System board CMOS/real time clock (2)
  System speaker (2)
  System timer (2) >>
All these should be one dated Win98SE.
pslh



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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Pat

One of each shows in normal mode, but when I boot into Safe Mode there are two.  The dates are all 4-23-1999 (Win98 right?).

If I remove them in Safe Mode thre remains just one until the next time I reboot and then it adds a second one of each.

How do I correct this do you think?!
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Latest developments, Pat and Dennis ...

I managed to (sort of) answer my own question and I have now got only ONE of each of those devices you list above, Pat (with correct Win98 dates).

I did this by deleting BOTH of the originals and rebooting and letting the system add them back.  That seems to have done it.

(Unfortunately I now have a side-effect problem in that every time I Start/Shutdown/Restart the boot sequence fails.  However if I then reboot again it is fine.  It is also fine if I boot after a shut down.  Go figure!)

I have found an excellent contact in Matrox and I am hopeful that he will be able to help woth the main problem.

He seems to be aware of the suspend problems caused by the G400 (although he's being cagey) and has asked me to try another Beta.  This fixed a couple of othet minor problems, but not the suspend one.

However - someone in Matrox does appear to be on to it!
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
P.S. Side-effect problem now fixed, so don't worry about offering any advice on that - thanks!
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark, Let us know what Matrox's advice. I'll try to build up a testing scenario within this 2 weeks and see if I can see through something.
pslh
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Hello Pat and Dennis

Long time no write.  I have been travelling internationally for the last month or so.

The latest update:

Matrox say that it's an HP problem and that I should talk to HP.

HP say that it's a Win98 known problem with suspend and that I should await a correction from Microsoft.

Looks like everyone is copping out on me!

Advice?  Are they write - I just have to live with it?

Mark
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dew_associatesCommented:
I all honesty Mark, I think HP is coping out on this one. Suspend to disk is a power management function and usually requires a small non-dos partition on the drive to function correctly. Wake on mouse, wake on KB etc bring the PC out of its suspend state, which is a bios issue, not an OS issue. MS really doesn't to anything but enable it. Since it is enabling just fine, then its the wake on function of the bios that is screwing things up.
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Hi Mark and Dennis,

There is a newly released utility from Matrox.

Latest graphic card utilities
http://www.matrox.com/mga/drivers/files/ftp_util2.htm 

Matrox Utilities

Latest additions
tweakutil.zip Apr. 20, 2000
104 KB  For G400 graphics cards on Windows 98 only. If you are experiencing random systems lock-ups, download and unzip this utility and then double click on the .exe file.

Try to download it and test if it helps.
pslh
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dew_associatesCommented:
Hi Pat,

That's good to know, thanks!

Dennis
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Gave it a try, and after the first couple of tests it seemed to have fixed the problem, but now it is failing again.

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

fyi I have also tried Microsoft's recent patch announced for Win98 power management problems: www.microsoft.com/windows98/downloads/contents/WURecommended/S_WUFeatured/Win98SE/Default.asp

While this didn't fix the problem, I'm wondering about following through their trouble-shooting chart (although it's similar to what I've done already).

Mark
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dew_associatesCommented:
Mark, although its extrememly time consuming, you may want to do it by the numbers just to see if you missed anything.
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
I did try one thing that didn't work but I might mention it:

Remember that I have never been able to fully remove the on-board Nvidia video card?  The Matrox is solo in normal mode, but in Safe Mode the original card shows up, as well as two extra monitors.

I took a gamble and first disabled then removed these in Safe Mode.  Caused no problems it seems and they have stayed removed.

Thought this would make a difference (Matrox are sure this is why I'm having the problems), but it seems to have made no difference.
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Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Mark, please check these URLs for HP8519.

http://www.hp.com/cposupport/swindexes/hppavilion18902_swen.html

http://www.hp.com/cposupport/personal_computing/software/har106.exe.html

Checking if you need to flash the HP Harrier BIOS Update (American English)
23-Aug-1999  ver 1.06
har106.exe (276.5 Kilobytes)

pslh
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mark_ottawayAuthor Commented:
Hi Pat

Thanks for the suggestion, but I've already done this.  I am running BIOS v1.06.

Mark
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