Network with Win95B and Win98SE

Computer 95 and Computer 98 are connected to a hub which is connected to a cable modem. Both computers have their own IP addresses, but only the first two parts are identical. The third and fourth parts are different.
TCP/IP->network card is the setup. File and Print Sharing allowed. Each computer sees itself in network but NOT the other computer. Running BlackIce but I've tried with and without and no difference.
How do I get computers to see each other in each computer's network???

Thanks,
Herb
lebovitzAsked:
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trekie1Commented:
this sounds like my network except I have 4 comp   I'm just gona type what mine says,  under configuration ,
I'v got client for microsoft networks,and client for netware networks
protocol   ixp/spx-compatible,  netbeui,
 TCP/IP
file and print sharing
Identification    give each comp a name,same work group
Access control    check Share-level control
share files on each comp then reboot
should work  like i said thats the way mine are setup and it works great( also 1 of the comp has win95, 2 have win98 1st edition and 1 has sec.edition
Hope this helps  James
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trekie1Commented:
p.s.  dont know if it makes any diff or not but I dont have a modem hooked to my hub
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TENSORCommented:
Take a look at the troubleshooter in windows, to go to it:

1. click on desktop then press f1
2. Contents tab
3. Click on:
     a)Troubleshooting
     b)Networking
4. click on I am unable to connect my Windows 95 computer to my Windows 98 computer.
5. Follow the steps, tell me if this troubleshooter helps.
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TENSORCommented:
NOTE: DO THIS ON THE WIN98 MACHIENE
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MyrmidonCommented:
Do the following on both machines :

Set the control panel up to look like the following.

- Client for Microsoft Networks
- Network Card
- Tcp/Ip
- File and Print Sharing

On the Identification Tab set the Workgroup to the same name and the Computer names to different names.

In the TCP/IP properties on the IP Address set the machine to the following:

Machine 1 - IP Address : 10.0.0.1
            Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0

Machine 2 - IP Address : 10.0.0.2
            Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0

As you can see only the last octave should differ.

Regards
Myrmidon
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lebovitzAuthor Commented:
My ISP assigns IP addresses via DHCP.
I can't assign addresses.
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lebovitzAuthor Commented:
To Trekie1:
Already tried suggestion. Netbeui locks up Win95 computer.

To Tensor:
Help/Troubleshooting/networking does not have unable to connect my win95 to win 98.

Thanks for trying.

Herb
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GHemphillCommented:
Number one:  I would not let my ISP assign my internal IP addresses.  Not very secure.  Your cable modem would have to support Network Address Translation.

Number two: It sound's like one of your PC's is being setup on a different subnet.

Can you "Start", "Run", "\\otherpcname" and see the other PC?  From either PC?

Run "winipcfg" and see what the IP addresses, subnet's and other information that may differ on both machines.
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centervCommented:
Did the cable co connect you to one pc and then you made your LAN and connected the cable modem to the hub?
If that's the case, your setup wont work.
Give more specific info and I can walk you thru it.
To get specific settings as to the configuration you now have, type winipcfg in the run box, hit enter, expand the box clicking more info.
Use the down arrow to check settings for any adapters installed in pc.
Same way on both.
Also, check my comments and others at this link.
Your questions may be answered there.

http://www.experts-exchange.com/jsp/qShow.jsp?ta=win98&qid=10290287 
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dew_associatesCommented:
Hi Lebovitz!

I think there is some basic networking misunderstandings here, and with that you may need to verify what your ISP is actually providing you with.

There are a couple of different ways to share your Cable Modem or xDSL connection over multiple PCs. Your ISP provides you with one or more IPs (addresses), which are used to identify your PC. Most providers will assign just one IP per account, which means that for the outside world, the Internet in this case, you have only one address. The problem with multiple PCs using one IP address is that you need some kind of address translation that will route packets to/from your PCs accordingly.

If your ISP provides you with only one IP, (it doesn't matter whether its by DHCP or not) you can share your Internet connection by using either Proxy or NAT (Network Address Translation) software. Also, you would have to designate one PC as the server, and another as a client, rather than plugging your Modem to a hub.

1. Install 2 NICs in the Server PC and one in the Client PC.

2. Connect one of the NICs in the Server to the Cable Modem and the second NIC to your LAN, or Client PC. You can use a hub only between the PCs, not between the Cable modem and the Server.

3. Install either NAT or Proxy software. The advantages of using proxy are that you can block ports and it's more customizable. The disadvantage is that most networking software might require special configuration in order to run. If you decide to use NAT, on the other hand, most of your software will work without additional configuration.

Note that with this setup your server PC will need to be powered-up in order for your client PCs to be able to access the Internet.

Recommended NAT software:
Sygate
Internet Gateway 6.0

Recommended Proxy:
Wingate
WinProxy

If you decide to purchase additional IP addresses for each PC on your LAN, your ISP can charge you anywhere between $0-$10 / month for the additional service. The advantage of this method is that you wouldn't have to install any additional software, and you can plug the Cable Modem directly to a hub, rather than having one of the PCs on-line as a server. The only disadvantage is the possible monthly fee. If you have multiple IP addresses, ask your ISP's Tech. Support to assist you with configuring your LAN to share the Internet connection.

I think you are under the impression that you have multiple IP addresses assigned, and that normally isn't the case, which then dictates that you'll need to run some form of proxy.

You'll need to make some easy network reconfigurations to get the basic network running, add in the modem and then implement a proxy.

Dennis
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lebovitzAuthor Commented:
To Dennis:
My ISP provides two different IP addresses for my two computers and there is no extra fee.
They told me to connect modem to hub and then hub to  each of the computer NIC cards. Each computer connects perfectly to the internet and both can connect at same time because they have different IP addresses.
All the software has been set up correctly.
When the two IP addresses had the same first three groups the same and different fourth group, there was no trouble with the network. When one of them got assigned by DHCP an address with the third and fourth parts different, the network doesn't work.
They don't understand why. I don't either.
Herb
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GHemphillCommented:
My previous comment is your answer.

If your PC's are in different subnets, like they sound like they are, they will not be able to see each other.

Accept it if you will, that is what is happening.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Lebovitz, what I would like you to do is tell me exactly the four parts you are referring to above for clarity purposes. Also, go into your network properties and tell me what you have installed for protocols and other network components.

I think your ISP is under the impression that your only network function is to have dual internet access and not file and printer sharing across your peer-to-peer network.
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lebovitzAuthor Commented:
Client for Microsoft Networks
Dial Up Adapter
3 Com Fast Etherlink
TCP/IP->Dial Up
TCP/IP->3 Com Fast Etherlink
File & Pring Sharing for MS Network


123.234.34.5
123.234.35.12

File & Print Sharing Properties on 98 shows Browse Master Enabled
File & Print Sharing on 95 shows Browse Master Disabled

TCP/IP->3 Com Etherlink Properties shows Obtain IP address, Use DHCP for WINS configuration, Gateway blank, Disable DNS and Bindings for Client and PrintSharing are checked. Same on both computers.

Herb

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dew_associatesCommented:
Okay, there are some problems here, but first, where did you get those IP addresses?
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lebovitzAuthor Commented:
they are not the real ones. they are sample for you to show you what changes.
Herb
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dew_associatesCommented:
How the heck am I supposed to help you when your giving me sample IP addresses. Anyway, you will need to establish IP addresses and a single common subnet mask for your two machine. Then, depending upon your ISP's server setup, determine whether the DSL modem can handle gateway and/or wins operation or whether you will need to use a gateway. You're banging your head against a brick wall for no reason, something, either the equipment your ISP provided or something you implement needs to act as a gateway.
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GHemphillCommented:
lebovitz, dew_associates, Myrmidon and I have given you the answer to your question and you dont seem to want it.  Are we missing something here?
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lebovitzAuthor Commented:
I concede. What I wanted isn't possible.
Now, since three of you all helped me, tell me how to award 500 points to each of you.
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GHemphillCommented:
What you want is possible.  Get the book on your cable modem and program it for NAT and setup the Ethernet port on it as the gateway.

Generaly I would use:

PC-1 10.0.0.10
PC-2 10.0.0.11
Cable Modem 10.0.0.1
all with a subnetmask of 255.255.255.0

Program the cable modem for NAT (which should already be on) and give it's ethernet port the IP address above with matching subnet mask.  Hard code the IP addresses on your PC's, enter the Gateway of 10.0.0.1 on your PC's and find the DNS addresses from your cable company to program those into your PC's also.  THEN RUN WITH IT!

Everybody agree?
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GHemphillCommented:
What you want is possible.  Get the book on your cable modem and program it for NAT and setup the Ethernet port on it as the gateway.

Generaly I would use:

PC-1 10.0.0.10
PC-2 10.0.0.11
Cable Modem 10.0.0.1
all with a subnetmask of 255.255.255.0

Program the cable modem for NAT (which should already be on) and give it's ethernet port the IP address above with matching subnet mask.  Hard code the IP addresses on your PC's, enter the Gateway of 10.0.0.1 on your PC's and find the DNS addresses from your cable company to program those into your PC's also.  THEN RUN WITH IT!

Everybody agree?
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GHemphillCommented:
What you want is possible.  Get the book on your cable modem and program it for NAT and setup the Ethernet port on it as the gateway.

Generaly I would use:

PC-1 10.0.0.10
PC-2 10.0.0.11
Cable Modem 10.0.0.1
all with a subnetmask of 255.255.255.0

Program the cable modem for NAT (which should already be on) and give it's ethernet port the IP address above with matching subnet mask.  Hard code the IP addresses on your PC's, enter the Gateway of 10.0.0.1 on your PC's and find the DNS addresses from your cable company to program those into your PC's also.  THEN RUN WITH IT!

Everybody agree?
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TENSORCommented:
I have it let me clarify in instructions:

open WIN98 help

click on the contents tab

click on troubleshooting on the left pane

click on Windows 98 Troubleshooters (a sub-section of troubleshooting.

Click on the Networking page

It asks you what problem you are having, click on the last one titled "I am unable to connect my Windows 95 computer to my Windows 98 computer.  

-TENSOR-
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dew_associatesCommented:
GHemphill, I don't agree necessarily. What you have posted will only work IF the cable modem supports NAT, and many of them do not.

Herb, contact your ISP and review with them what you have and what you want to do. Your paying them already, so let them help you. Without us knowing what hardware you are using, all of us are guessing!
Dennis
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GHemphillCommented:
Very true.  Without NAT, they need to give you two static IP addresses in the same subnet.
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SysExpertCommented:
OK. There may be another easier solution. If your ISP is doing DHCP, then tell him to reserve two addresses on the same subnet. The problem only occurs when your computers are on different subnets ( ie the first 3 numbers are NOT the same ). If he can give you reserved addresses then your problem is solved, and your addresses will be permanent. If he will not do this, then talk to your customer support rep ( Not tech rep ) and complain that this worked previously, and was supposed to work on a regular basis. This problem may have to be bumped up fairly high in the tech support levels before someone can be found who knows how to do this.
One other option is to turn off one of your computers for 24 to 48 hours and then reconnect. You should receive a new IP address. Since this is random, you should , at some point, get an IP address that fits your second machine. At this point, you should NEVER turn off either machine, or you will receive a new IP address and your problems will start all over.
I hope this helps.
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GHemphillCommented:
Isn't that what I just said?
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dew_associatesCommented:
SysExpert, your are new to this site, and with that, welcome. However, unlike Newsgroups and Usenets, we observe a protocol or policy at this site with which you should become familiar. Experts do not post proposed answers that are incomplete or that are speculative, nor do they post proposed answers that incorporate the comments of others that have preceded you. Furthermore, when you see ongoing troubleshooting, plain simple manners dictate that you don't repeat or reword some else's comments and then post that as an answer. You're supposed to be a professional who has been involved in computing since 1975, remember?  By doing so, not only is it a sign of bad manners, but you also block the question from the view of another expert who may have a solution to the problem. Since questioners can accept comments as answers, it is beneficial to the questioner that speculative answers be posted as comments, especially when the issue involves further troubleshooting. Hopefully you will cooperate with us in the future. Please withdraw your answer.
Dennis
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EntropyCommented:
It looks like he already has his points doles out but I would like to make a suggestion.  Why don't you just add IPX/SPX?  That should allow both computers to communicate...  I have an 8 port hub and 3 computers and 2 of them connect to the internet on different phone lines and different modems (don't ask why it is a long story) but I can see everyone through IPX/SPX.  I may be missing something obvious but I don't see right off why that wouldn't work.

Oh well, have a good one :)
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GHemphillCommented:
Or even NetBEUI.  What a great (and simple) suggestion Entropy!  Good thinking!
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lebovitzAuthor Commented:
Not the first one to answer that way.
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GHemphillCommented:
I guess we are back to static IP addresses?  I think it is the best way.  NetBEUI really shoud work though.
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EntropyCommented:
I didn't mean to try and steal points I was under the conclusion that according to the person asking the question that he had found his answer somewhere along the way.  I only skimmed over the answers and didn't see the IPX/SPX solution so I posted it.  If someone else posted it then I apologize.

I noticed the netbeui answer but I don't see an IPX/SPX answer still?  I read that it locked up the Win95 box.  But I don't see the reason for not wanting to use IPX/SPX.
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GHemphillCommented:
I agree...  IPX/SPX should work.
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GHemphillCommented:
HOWEVER, I still think the right way is the static IP addresses.
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lebovitzAuthor Commented:
Okay. Here's what has happened.
I got my ISP to set me up with both computers on the same first three groups of numbers, and all works great again.
So again, how do I give points to Ghemphill, dew_associates and Myrmidon?
Explain it so I don't screw it up.
Thanks for all your time and help.
Herb
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dew_associatesCommented:
Herb, if you tell me how you wish to split the points, I'll arrange it for you!
Dennis
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lebovitzAuthor Commented:
I'd like to give each of dhemphill, myrmidon and you 500 points each for your time and trouble and knowledge.
Thanks,
Herb
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EntropyCommented:
Wow! Nice job guys, makes for an excellent reward :)
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dew_associatesCommented:
Herb, I refer to the above as the resolution and block this question for your acceptance.

Open two new questions, one for dhemphill and another for myrmidon.

In the title section, insert the following:

This question for DHemphill only

In the body, just note that you are awarding point for this question.

Now assign it the 500 points and then click the submit button.

Repeat the process for myrmidon.
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lebovitzAuthor Commented:
Many thanks,
Herb
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dew_associatesCommented:
Anytime Herb. Also, if something should arise with this issue, don't post a new question, come back to this one.
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