At one time I had the DMA box in the hard drive settings checked.  And since then I have changed drives and now when I try to put the checkmark in it acts like it's going to take it but when i come back to the settings area it isn't there no more {the checkmark).....I just got a new 52 speed CD rom and it says in it's literature that the DMA checkmark HAS to be there in order to get the fast access and fast speeds.  But I put the checkmark in the box and then reboot like it say's...then I come back and the checkmark isn't in there anymore either.  How do I get around this???   I installed the same cdrom in a computer i made for a guy and wow!!!  His new 52x ROCKS!!

PS I have tried letting windows pick and use it's own drivers AND I have tried using the drivers that came with the DR rom.  Same thing happens!
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Does your MB and Bios support the drive?

Does your Bios need an upgrade.

Is the drive installed in 2nd IDE master mode?
Be sure also that your old drive is removed as well as any other hardware.

Reboot in safe mode.

Go to sytem properties/device manager

Expand all + and do away with any hardware you dont have in your system.

Remove all duplicate hardware, and let windows reinstall at bootup.

RonadoAuthor Commented:
YES , NO, recently got an upgrade and it worked at THAT time , and YES, to the second answer...and

thanks, but that's deleteing the peripherials in system was  the first thing i tried
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try reloading the hard disk controller driver

go to Device Manager /Hard disk controller, click the appropriate hard disk controller, and then click Properties.

Click the Driver tab, click Update Driver, and then click Next.

Click Display a list of the drivers  so you can select the driver you want, and then click Next.

Click the driver that matches the date of your operating system, and then click Next.
for Windows 98 the date is 5/11/1998, and for Windows 98se the date is 4/20/99.

Click Next, click Finish, and then restart

Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, what drives in the primary IDE and secondary IDE. What kind of HDD it is?     pslh
RonadoAuthor Commented:
PSLH-The primary master is a 8.4 gig 66/ATA udma
seagate.   The slave is a western digital 8.4 66/ATA udma.  They are within a year old!  The secondary master is a creative labs 52x that say's in it;'s manual that checking the dma box is a necessity for the higher speeds.  The slave is my new hewlet packard 4x4x24 CDRW.  Does this help?  Both the hard drives worked with the DMA box when i installed them, but something strang is happening now.  AND the new Creative labs is requesting the DMA box to be checked!!

CENTRY-in device manager the hard drives are identified as "GENERIC IDE DISK TYPE 47"...Both Hd's are identified as the same. The hard drive main controller is identified as "STANDARD DUAL  PCI IDE CONTROLLER".  The primary AND secondary controllers are identified as "Primary or secondary IDE controllers (dual fifo)....Hope this helps you too.....
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
(1) Checking if your motherboard supports ATA66/UDMA or ATA33/UDMA.
If your motherboard supports ATA66/UDMA, use the cables and checking the connection is as the chain:-
[Primary IDE slot] <--long end ---special cable of ATA66 ---[slave western digital 8.4 66/ATA udma] ----> [master ( seagate 8.4 66/ATA udma ) ]
[Secondary IDE slot] <--long end ---normal IDE cable (support run in ATA33) ---[slave HP cdrw] ----> [master creative cdrom) ]

If your motherboard supports ATA33/UDMA but not ATA66/UDMA, use the cables and checking the connection is as the chain:-
[Primary IDE slot] <--long end ---normal IDE cable (support run in ATA33) ---[slave western digital 8.4 66/ATA udma] ----> [master ( seagate 8.4 66/ATA udma ) ]
(2) Have you checked with the motherboard and upgrade the IDE driver to support UDMA.

(3) As you've added and change the drives, go to the normal mode "my computer", checking the drives letters.
      Boot into the safe mode, inspect my computer and device manager, see if the drive letters matched or there is other entries of cdrom/cdr drive in the cdrom device and there is other entries of harddisk part of the cdrw that their drive letters not matching. Adjust the matching.

RonadoAuthor Commented:
Got them all set up and still no change.
MB supports just 33/ata but vendor says they'll work just fine either way.  As I stated, at one time the hard drives AND the cdroms were being supported with the dma box checked.  Don't know what happened as now they are not.  I don't care abt the HD's takeing the dma box checked as they are working just fine.  It's the darn new 52x cd rom that requirs the dma box to be checked .
Just for "Sh^&'s and Giggles" try disconnecting the Hard Drives and Leaving the CD-Rom Drive connected then see if the DMA will stay on in the BIOS.

I don't have any actual technical facts to back this up.  But, that is what I would try. Sometimes, as we all know, computers just aren't that cut and dry...
The 66UMDA needs an 80 wire cable but your board only goes to 33 so that is not a necessity.

Insure the UMDA's for Primary/secondary/master/slave, are set correctly in BIOS.  You probabably have to update the secondary master UMDA for the new 56x drive. Using auto detect. Your bios may not recognize the brandy new 56x drive.

Reboot and turn on the DMA switches in windows- reboot again and see if they stay set.

You didn't say if you reloaded the drivers for the hard disk Cd controller.

Also in properties as a separate item,
in system properties, you can remove the hardware by checking the remove box,
reboot and reinstall.

In Accessories/system tools/system informatioin
check the DMA resources available under Hardware

Also check components/problem devices

Do you have a Creative Sound Card?
Seem to recall sound card having conflict with other devices DMA.

Check HP site.  Win98 and HP CD-RW has an Issue with DMA and system performance.

RonadoAuthor Commented:
well after trying most everything posted here new, I went into the bios and looked at the result screen after setting up the the hd'd and cdroms.  The result screen shows that the HD's are accepting UDMA while the cd rom's say N/A, for not available.  The only chioce on the settings for the primary and seconday cdroms are, USER, CDROM, AND AUTODETECT...And there are no settings in them for picking out dma.  I guess the autodetect is supposed to do that.  But even tho the hd's say they are accepting udma in windows system properties the dma box STILL will not stay checked!   But you'd think i'd have a chance at getting the cdroms to have the udma settup for the checkmark since at one time the HD's AND the secondary HP cdrw slave was once checkmarked all the time until HP told me NOT to do it, then I uncheckmarked THAT drive.  But the NEW Creative Labs 52x says that it HAS to have the dma box checkmarked!!  While it isn't even being detetcted in the bios that it is "available"! [the dma} that is.

DADUDE-the auto detect is what i am using in the bios for the cdroms and for some reason lately the bios won't dect the dma on the drives.  At least a month ago it DID detect the HP CDRW!!   I could probably get it to force the dma buy setting up the autoexec.bat and config.sys, and set a swtich there but then they would be running in [i think it's called] msdos propritity mode.

Centerv-I loaded, unloaded, tried new, loaded, unloaded, the secondary controllers drivers many times over.  But they were the ones that came with windows.  To no avail....The drivers that came with the dr-rom were just device drivers made to be used with the setting of it up in auto exec and config...can't use them right?  I DID try them but still nothing so i took the settings back out of the auto exec and config....Also I did not show any "problem devices" but I do show under "hardware devices DMA" that the sound blaster is taking up 2 DMA's....Number 1 and 7...That gives me "0", "5", and "6" empty.....Oh yeah, my sound card is a SB compatable mounted in the MB.

Does THIS help???
as long as the box isn't grayed out it should be available.

The cd-rom drivers that came with it should be the latest
I would load them

You can try to disable the sound card and see what that does.

Also check performance tab in system/properties and see how your resources are.

be sure you're not running in dos mode.

While there click the  file system button and check the CD tab.

you can also try having the cd-rom as the only drive  in slave and see if that resolves it.

Does the manufacturer have any input?
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Centry-I i meantioed earlier the box is there it just won't hold the checkmark.  The drives that came with the cd are loaded! ...The resources go from 90% - down to 75% at times.   Since i took out the cd stuff the drives put in auto exec and config i am not running in dos mode.   The cd tab in system properties file system shows read ahead cache times 4....And all the 4 drives show the dma box, but none of them accept the checkmark.    But the bios shows that the two Hd's ARE being accepted
as with DMA and the two cd rom are showing n/a for the dma!  The creative labs show very little support!!!  

NOW!  More New News!  I installed the Mother board drivers for the controller built on the MB and
NOW the hard drives accept DMA working in windows.  They take the checkmark in the dma box!  Very visable improvement too!   But NOW the DMA boxes on the dc roms has completely dissapeared!  They are NOW greyed out.  Also some of my windows's programs don't like the new controller drives at all!  They crash alot and i have to drop out to get things working again!  So hmmm, that don't seem to be an answer either!
I just don't understand why all this WAS working once with dma boxes checkmarked on the microsoft drivers with no problems.    I went up to the controllers driver website to get newer updates and tried them.  When they start up to install it says that these drivers may not work with microsoft windows.  It says that microsoft has thier own Bus mastering drivers for my controller so the manufactuer's are not necesary and may not funtion properly!   So I took the manufactuer's off and i'm right back where i started....
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Adjusted points to 400
This link is not a fix, but it should give
you an overview of DMA and win98

try the reskit and report.


did you try the sound card approach?

I was troubleshooting a printer earlier and came accross this on a MS site

NOTE: Some sound cards and video adapters do not report all the resources they are using to Windows. This can cause Device Manager to show only one device in conflict, or no conflicts at all. This can be verified by disabling the sound card, or using the standard VGA video driver to see if the conflict is resolved. (This is a known problem with S3 video cards and 16-bit Sound Blaster sound cards, or those sound cards using Sound Blaster emulation for Sound Blaster compatibility.)

Insure the primary/secondary-master/slave bios and jumper settings are correct.

Here's more info
As you can see you opened a can of worms.
Did you say you tried your drive in another pc?

"By far the most frustrating problems, according to Stapleton, are intermittent crashes or data errors caused by UDMA transfers at speeds that are not quite reliable. He and others point to the old IDE cable that many PC manufacturers still use to connect drives to the motherboard. The cable is not shielded against electrical interference, which can be a problem at high transfer rates. Circuit Assembly sells a special ATAS cable for a price of $12.99 plus charges for shipping that is well grounded and may solve this kind of trouble. See

Let me start by saying that most UDMA drives, perhaps the great majority, work fine under Windows. But there seems to be a discernable minority of UDMA drives that have been installed in systems that aren't quite capable of supporting the maximum speeds that UDMA can produce. Problems can be caused by electromagnetic interference on the system bus; poor flow control in hardware or firmware; or inferior circuitry on the drive itself. In such cases, a drive can "time out," slowing the system and/or corrupting data files.

The problem is affecting more and more people, because the installation of Windows 98 automatically installs UDMA drivers on systems with such drives. You can also install UDMA drivers under Windows 95 and Windows NT (Service Pack 3). And PC manufacturers may configure their systems so they ship with high-speed UDMA enabled, not realizing that this causes intermittent failures.

If you have a UDMA drive in a system that isn't quite up to speed (so to speak), you may experience one or more of the following difficulties when upgrading to Windows 98.

Win98 fails during the Plug and Play process and won't complete the installation.
Alternatively, after a successful installation, Win98 will start only in Safe Mode.
When transferring files, a drive appears to slow way down, then speed up again. This may also pause or hang software or your keyboard and mouse.
You start missing perfectly good files, or you lose the capability to access your hard drive at all.
Win98 shutdown takes much, much longer than normal.
Of course, the above symptoms can be caused by many other problems. One of the frustrating things about UDMA difficulties is that they may be intermittent and hard to diagnose"

Ronado, as centerv says above, maybe the 80 wire ATAS cable will help after all. It should have come with the drive if needed.  The cable has 40 more ground wires between the data wires to lessen electromagnetic interference. You can count the wires in the cabel to tell which you have.
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before or not due to the long thread.

Try to connect the CDRW as secondary primary and your cdrom as secondary slave. Remember to reset the jumper (do not select jumper setting of cable select.)

After changes, go to the safe mode, device manager and correct the drive letters of all hard disks and cdrw / cdrom.

Restart the computer.      pslh
RonadoAuthor Commented:
dadude-Most hd's now comes as OEM so you get nothing with the drive this way.

centerv-tried turning off the sound card, had no effect.

pslh-getting ready to try that...
RonadoAuthor Commented:
PSLH-Sorry it took so long to get back to you but i am disabled so I had to get a guy to come overand help me take the computer case off.  Anyway we tried exchanging the cdroms and made still no difference.  We did reset the jumpers.  Still no dma....I called and talked to my friend that I built a computer exactly like mine for over in Oklahoma and he says he is having the same problem.  I went through step by step with him and it put the checkmark in the dma box then rebooted and it wasn't there anymore.  I have finnally got ahold of someone at the Creative labs support cent and they can't figure out the situation either.  All their suggestions so far have been very simular to what we have already tried in this thread.  Now microsoft says on a report on this that if the dma box is NOT greyed out, and you can see it clearly and you CAN put the checkmark in the box, then that means that the availabillty of DMA is there!  This problem has been making me so nervous trying what to change next.  I'm sorry for making this thread so long, but the last time we had a long thread over here we finnally got THAT problem straightned out....Thanks for all the help, i know nothing else to try!

In going over the thread,
I dont believe you have the drivers loaded.
Please check again, a lot of changes have been made.

To see if you have DMA or UDMA drives installed, click Start,
Settings, Control Panel. Click the Device                    Manager tab,
then click the plus sign to the left of "Hard Disk Controllers" to expand this branch.
 If you see an entry such as "Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus-Master IDE Controller," you have a UDMA-capable system
The entry "Standard Dual PCI IDE Controller" means you do not have bus-mastering drivers loaded.

RonadoAuthor Commented:
Yes, they are loaded.  When going into the device manager properties and clicking on the Hard drive controllers on the primary AND seconday the Bus mastering is loaded.  My MB uses the ALI Busmastering drivers.  They just put out thier newest controller driver in a beta and that I just installed yesterday.  I was hopeing there was a bug in the old ALI drivers so I put the
newest set on.  The Primary "ali's" controller on the C: and d: drives has jumped WAY up on my "Hard Drive Tach" and then the CPU% use went way down just like busmastering should do! Both controllers drivers show that they are there! But the secondary won't hold the checkmark so in testing it shows no improvment!  It's working the CPU at 100%!!   Creative labs sent me a last ditch email effort to load the dos drivers and just see what happens.  I guess I can aways just wipe them back out of the autoexec
and config if they don't work.  But I'd hate to have to run the cdrom that way.
Everything I've ever read says not to do that that way!
As you might have guessed, I'm working on a similar problem.

MS specifies that all drivers and controllers be of the same version date,
win98 being 4-10-98
and 98sr2 being 4-23-99.
Now, in devise manager/system devices/DMA controller/properties/  the date is 4-23-99, but the driver VDMAD.VXD under driver file details is 4-10-98

Have used sfc to extract  VDMAD.vxd file from 98sr2, and it comes up with the same date.
Have extracted file to a folder I created, to be able to doublecheck the version, and came up with the same results.

Be interested if you have the same condition.

RonadoAuthor Commented:
well my hd's show 4-23-99.  but of course with the ali drivers for the controllers they show 3-1-2000.  They are the newest ones ali has!  MB told me to run ali's drivers for Busmastering since ali is the manufatuer of the contoller.
That would be the right aproach for you.

It would seem that you have all the pieces in place, but...

Don't remember if the Bios has come up.
Latest upgrade?

I'm resigning to a MB issue.

RonadoAuthor Commented:
The bios has been replaced to the newest one available [04-29-99]...If it was the motherboard then why did it ALL work properly before installing this drive.  At one time I had both my cd drives running on busmastering along with the hard drives.

i don't know, i give up...
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Adjusted points to 600
RonadoAuthor Commented:
I just got back from microsoft's site and did a DEBUG that tells whether or not the hardware is DMA compatable.   Never realized that running debug was so easy! showed that the cdrom is 100% DMA compatable!  Sheeze i already knew that!
My sentiments!!!

Have you tried the reskit from the win98 cd?

Any results from that?

I reloaded the drivers, but now I've lost the "driver's file" option.

Towel gone, about ready for the blanket!
RonadoAuthor Commented:
what could i try with the reskit?  I've tried a few tools from there.  any speacial ones you can think of to try?
RonadoAuthor Commented:
what could i try with the reskit?  I've tried a few tools from there.  any speacial ones you can think of to try?
Sorry Ronado

I was sure there was a diagnostic utility
there that would have been helpful.
I'll  have to remember where I saw it.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Adjusted points to 750
RonadoAuthor Commented:
I hearby NOTICE to all that I will give all my points to the person whom comes up with the answer to my problem!
check for vdmad.vxd
scroll to end and see if it gives you info
on setting dma buffer in sys.ini
I suspect there may be  too many devices using DMA -  or conflict. There are 5,  I think.  You have (guess)  2 sound card, 1 ecp printer, 2 hdd, 2 cd rom = 7  --- maybe windows wasn't made for all that use.   (only a theory-I don't have the knowledge to back it up yet.)  
I suspect there may be  too many devices using DMA -  or conflict. There are 5,  I think.  You have (guess)  2 sound card, 1 ecp printer, 2 hdd, 2 cd rom = 7  --- maybe windows wasn't made for all that use.   (only a theory-I don't have the knowledge to back it up yet.)  
RonadoAuthor Commented:

I WiLl ChEck THaT OuT ThO I'M PrEttY SuRe ThAt I HaVe At LeAst 5!!

Centerv-Was that a joke file centrv??  It insn't in MY windows 98 se????

Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, What kind of motherboard and bios of your computer?
BIOS id appears at the bottom of your screen after power on, during memory count up. The PAUSE key should work at that point, allowing you to write down the BIOS number, the BIOS date, and the version. Please post it here.
No bogus Renado.
But its in MINE 98se with all updates.  Thats windows for you!
Did you say that you have the 80 wire cable in place?

Anyway, with all that's been done and investigated in this case,
I do think that it has to be in the motherboard and/or its drivers.

It may pay for you to investigate a pci controller DMA capable.

As to that it was working before, win98 lets you check off DMA but it doesn't necessaraly function.

RonadoAuthor Commented:
Centerv-windows lets you check off DMA?  How do I do that?   My mB is well disliked but I like em alot!  I've built quite a few computers with them and this is my first problem.  It's a PCC AMPTRON.
People say they have very limitied help and support.  But just how much support do you need when you've built as many as "I" have?   They are easy to work with and like i said., only 1 out of 20 have i had a problem.   The book that comes with them is very GOOD!!   I have built alot of this model and they all worked great!  Si the software drivers are ok!  The drivers on the last ones i biult were wonderful!  My ESDI ATA-66 ran fantastic on identicale hardware!

PSLH-my bios is a AMI flash with the most recent flash already in it!  Let me write it out next time as i'm getting ready for bed right now.  The pause does not work at the point of the bios push right there.  So it's hit write down, hit write down, know how it goes.  But I wrote it down a week ago so i'll get it in the morning....Getting sleepy now, ready for bed...
Win98 by default leaves DMA settings off for IEDE drives.
So, if you've reinstalled and not turned them on , chances are they're off.
They need to be turned on each individually for each drive.

System Properties/Device Manager/Disk Drives/Properties/Settings/check the DMA box.

RonadoAuthor Commented:
So win 98 leaves dma settings off for IEDE drives.  Hmmm, wondering why mine were turned on with the DMA boxes marked????   Yes I've re-installed and not turned on because they were already on!
BUT.....the darn dma boxes were not checked for the cd-roms in the secondardary port  tho for the master and slaves......My ami most recent flash is dated 04-06-99...does that help?

DMA boxes marked????
One more for windows. Never know on a reinstall.
Don't think  your bios is a problem.
Have you checked off the dma for the cd-rom?
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Looks like everyone's given up on my problem! So SALAVIVE.  To whomever does it, remove this question thread.  I may need my points back as someone still may have the answer.....
Try capturing the Dma and reserving so that its not available to other devices.

make a note of IRQ, DMA and I/O
addresses, as well as memory resources, that legacy adapters are already using. Then put those resources on reserve, so no new device can use . To do this, open Control Panel's System applet, click on the Device Manager tab, highlight Computer and then click on the Properties button near the bottom of the dialog box. Next, click on the Reserve Resources tab and then on the radio button next to the appropriate resource type. Finally, click on the Add button and enter the IRQ, DMA channel, I/O or memory address you  want to reserve.

Play with it a bit and see if you can assign the cdr its permanent dma channel.

I don t know what else you can try Renado.
there's a possibility that you might be missing something small, and so let someone else look it at it, starting from scratch.

You can begin a new question and see if you attract some new blood.

Good luck
I recently had a similar problem with my PC after I installed an older non pnp network card.  The computer decided it found all the hardware as new and reloaded everything, bypass.  I fixed it by reinstalling the IDE drivers that came with the MB. Everything got reassigned nicely and the DMA stayed checked after the next boot.
In cmos setup is your Cd-rom drive set to auto? If it is your secondary master? In setup change value for Secondary master to "none" instead of "auto" I have had trouble with it set to auto because of the way it loads your cd-rom mode when set on "auto". When set to "none" it will still see your cd-rom when you boot up, but it set it to a different mode and may allow you to do what you are trying to do.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
dadude-tried that, didn't werk

scottem--my bios setup is set on CDROM for the secondary master AND slave where the cdroms are.  I'll try that tho and report back...

Be sure to check the end of the file.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
what do you mean check the end of the file?

In the BIOS locate the settings for PIO mode. Try it on settings Auto or 5, if they are available, or 4 if not. If you have UDMA settings, set them to Auto, or Enabled.
You can also directly program your drive using the DOS DEBUG.EXE command (from a non-Windows DOS session). For the master drive on the primary IDE port, carefully type the following lines following each with [Enter]:
(NOTE: Do not enter the semi-colons or the text following it, as these are simply my comments explaining each line):
o 1f6 a0 ; a0 is master. Use b0 for slave.
o 1f2 22 ; 22 is DMA mode 2. Use 21 for DMA mode 1.
o 1f1 03 ; Program the HDD timing.
o 1f7 ef ; Set feature.
i 1f1 ; Reads the error status and displays it.
q ; Quit debug.

Note that o is the lower case letter 'O', the others are zeroes (0). Also note that 1 is the figure one, not a lower-case 'L' (l).
You can try installing cdrom in Dos with the drivers that came with it, and let it load in Dos first on the way into windows, after you install driver, hit escape key to get rid of windows logo and it should show you how the cdrom is being loaded, Irq, Dma etc. Do you have a section in bios/setup for" integrated peripherals "? If so then check to see what the settings are for the controller that your cdrom is attached to, you should be able to adjust setings to auto, and cdrom should come up different than if it is set to say, cdrom in bios. I have had problems with brand new cdroms not reading cd's in windows, and by changing the settings in setup eliminated the problem. The dma channel for your cdrom is set by the dma channel that the controller is using. If your cdrom is on secondary controller then that is channel it is on. When your computer is booting up and devices appear on screen you can hit pause key and it should say something like " Cdrom  UDMA 2 " which I believe stands for Ultra-Dma mode/channel 2. But it also means that the dma for your drives is set by cmos and changing settings in Windows will not reverse this. There should also be a setting in cmos for " PnP  OS installed " if it is set to " yes " change it to " no " and vice-versa. This are just some things to try and see if it helps, you can change them back if they do not. I have also had to simply load setup defaults in certain instances to get stuff to work correctly. Each mother board setup is different in some ways so it is hard to say what will work on yours. You can check website of MB manufacturer for similar problems/fixes. Just because your setup has a setting for cdrom does not mean that is what it should be set to for your particular case, try changing it to auto/none or something/anything different and see if it helps.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
scottem-hey it was pretty amazing to me that windows would continue to reconize the cdrom when i turned it off in the bios!!    But it did although it still did NOT fix the dma box to hold the checkmark.   I have already tried installing the cdrom in dos also.  Bios keeps showing the cdrom as {N/A} when it is being load.  of which i would think that this would be saying not available.  But I did have all this working in dma at one time!  And the cdrom intructions say 100% dma compatible!  I have NO setting in bios to set the DMA on or off.  That seems to be automatic.  I also do not show a {pnp o/s installed} in bios.  thanks for helping...

Centrerv-what about the master setting on the secondary port?  what's the debug code for that because that is where it's at.
I have a Toshiba-Dvd-rom and under devices the DMA box is not checked for mine. So I searched the registry for "Toshiba" and it came up. In the folder for it in the registry it has all the info for my dvd-rom. One of the lines reads: "DMACurrentlyUsed=00" , you can search for your cd-rom and see if it has a DMA value listed. If you are familiar with the registry editor? This value should be in there I would think, it should be added by windows 95/98. Because I just reloaded , I had 98 and went back to 95 this morning (cause it is faster) and I did not load any drivers for dvd-rom, Dos or windows. I have mine set to "none" in bios but it loads it during boot up and shows its settings, it does not say N/A like yours does.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Mine just don't show anything at all for the cdrom when i put in NONE for the bios.  But windows shows and runs it all ok. strange!   The N/A is what it shows on loading for the cdrom when I type in  CDROM for the bios.  The N/A is what after loading it shows for the DMA.... So what does that mean DMACurrentyUsed=00  ????   That means you are NOT using the DMA?  It is NOT turned on?   I use the registry alot so i'll go and look and see what mine back...Ok, checked it...yes it reads the same as yours for THAT statment.  So why can't I just put in
{DMACurrentlyUsed=01}  ????   That's the way my hard drives are set....
At this point I would wonder what would happen if you borrowed, begged or ...
a pci controller with its own busmastering and dma drivers and used that to
run your dma drives?  Just a thought.
I've had this happen to me.

What you do is you check the DMA you click OK and everything. But don't say Yes to restart. Then go through the process again. The DMA checkbox should stay checked now.
Well, I know nobody ever really want's to do this but from what I've gathered from the thread you're experienced enough to do it in about an hour..

Here goes,

Have you tried formatting and re-installing windoze?

From personal exprience quite a lot of the time windoze gets really messed up with disk controllers/drives especially IDE systems...

Formatting has corrected almost all problems i've ever had with the drive control subsystem.

If you do/have done it let me know what happens
If it's still alive...
perhaps do a find, (search for fail) in
bootlog.txt to see if any relevant drivers aren't loading.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Fatcontroller.......I don't have a bootlog.txt.   I found a Booteditor to edit the msdos.sys.....In it it has "make a bootlog"  but it is ALL GREYED out!  Even the question!  There is NO place to say yes or no for makeing the editor make the bootlog.  Is there any other way to do this?

Methadone Pretty....I have way too many programs I no longer have the intstallations to to put them back on with.  They have been given away to relatives, sold, or heavens knows where they  are.  So formatting is no option!
Although I do belive would be an answer.

Laurian...I thried what you said but it didn't work..Thank-you for trying!
It's my opinion that you do have a bootlog.txt file. Go to My Computer, View, Folder Options, View, click "Show all files" and uncheck "Hide file extensions for known file types".
Without taking these steps, not only can you not see certain files, but also, Find Files cannot find them.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Adjusted points from 800 to 900
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Fatcontroller......I did that a long, long time ago.    All my files show up ,,hidden or not.  It's been set on show alll files on every computer I have owned or built.   I don't like files hideing from me... Both those boxes have been set that way already.   I have no bootlog.txt and i think it's due to the editor for the msdos.sys haveing it turned off.   I just wish i new how to turn it back on since it's greyed out.  Things were alot easier in the old Dos days.    Type in your command and there it was.  I hate windows, but the only other option is Linux
or apple.   At least the Red Hat is alot more reliable but NOT what I need.     Anymore idea's?
I DO want to fix this if possible, but i'm getting other problems now too.  Now my photo printer gave up the ghost.  That's my bread and butter!
Someone figures this out they'll get the lottery of points!
If you can see msdos.sys, can you not edit it with Notepad?...or even the dos edit command?
On a different 'bout deltree c:\windows [after backing up anything you might need from there] then re-install 98...this will keep all other folders and re-detect your hardware.
For a new bootlog at every restart.
Open with Notepad and edit the (hidden) Msdos.sys file and add to the [Options] list:


Go here for a bootlog analyzer

As to installing win98, there's no reason you cannot
custom install over itself, and hope it fixes itself.
Also, perhaps a bit risky, if you have tweakUI or download it, click the repair tab
and choose the fix system files option.

RonadoAuthor Commented:
centerv-Thanks, I just printed out your answer to try. i'll get back asap with results.  I do have tweak ui...
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Centerv-  I set up that program plus I edited the msdos.sys and made a log.  I set the program to show slow and is what is read out.  what do I change and how to fix the failer's.  Some things are duplicated too

.......18:35:11    0.28 (Logo disabled) (time estimated)
18:35:12   18.61  LoadSuccess    = C:\WIN95\IFSHLP.SYS
18:35:32    0.39  Loading Vxd = C:\WIN95\system\VMM32\IFSMGR.VXD
18:35:37    0.06  LoadFailed = ndis2sup.vxd
18:35:48    0.33  DEVICEINITSUCCESS   = VTD
18:36:01    0.72  Enumerated 3dfx Voodoo3 (PCI\VEN_121A&DEV_0005&SUBSYS_0037121A&REV_01\000800)
18:36:11    0.94  Starting PS/2 Compatible Mouse Port (BIOS\*PNP0F13\0D)
18:36:22    4.11  Initing epstw9x.mpd
18:36:26    1.72  Initing sparrow.mpd
18:36:28    2.28  Initing m5229.mpd
18:36:30    3.39  Initing m5229.mpd
18:36:34    1.50  Initing drvwq117.vxd
18:36:35    0.78  Init Success drvwq117.vxd
18:36:44    0.50  Enumerating ECP Printer Port (LPT2) (ROOT\*PNP0401\0000)
18:36:45    0.33  Dynamic load success C:\WIN95\system\serial.vxd
18:36:46    0.28  Enumerating Communications Port (COM2) (BIOS\*PNP0501\09)
18:36:46    0.28  Enumerated Printer Port (LPT1) (BIOS\*PNP0400\0A)
18:36:48    0.28  Initing drvwppqt.vxd
18:36:50    0.50  Initing drvwppqt.vxd
18:36:52    0.33  Loading PNP drivers of Windows Sound System (WSS) Device (ISAPNP\CMI0001_DEV0000\01000100)
18:37:02    0.00 LoadFail = Std.ttf Failure code is 0002 (time estimated)
18:37:02   14.39 InitDone = TSRQuery (time estimated)
18:37:17    4.50  Enumerating TapeDetection (TAPECONTROLLER\TAPEDETECTION\0000)
Other than some long loading times, the boot log looks ok.
Except for the Std.ttf. Don't know what that is. May be something associated with your keyboard.
The other 2 failed items are normal.
Some of the long loading time may be due to hardware
performance not being up to par.
if you want to keep track of your boot log further, try this:
Boot into safe mode. Click the Start button and then click run.
type scanreg/records ( or record).
This stores the boot records for the last few days.
You will see a list of records and what happened when you booted up before.

I think that you should put your drive in order, scandisk, defrag, clean and fix registry, remove startups you dont need etc.
and custom reload windows over itself.
have dma selected, even if you don't see it, as win98 defaults to what's already on the drive.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
What do I need to do to fix the registry?  what needs fixed?  I wish there was a program that would automatically take out old junk out of it.  I have "cleansweep" and it has an area where this could be done.  But i'm confused as what shound be removed and what not to.  It shows alot of junk in there but registry removeals are dangerouse if your not sure.
Also what do you mean about having DMA selected before reinstall over.  I have reinstalled 3 times already but what about that.  There is no DMA setting in the bios, it is automatic to whatever the periferial you are using.  And system proprties will not hold the dma setting on the CDroms.  That's my whole problem anyway....
Download RegClean, a MS utility, safe as they come.
For further cleaning, download a demo of system mmechanic from
For hardware info, us eone of several shareware,
such as DrHardware or similar for hardware diagnostic.
For windows registry repair, boot to dos,
at prompt for boot drive, type:
scanreg/fix   and hit enter.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Adjusted points from 900 to 1000
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Tried all to no avail.....Very confusing as at one time this all worked properly....
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Centerv- I checked out some of the hints back in this thread you gave and found out that i do not have a [VDMAD.VXD] anywahere.  could this be a problem?
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Adjusted points from 1000 to 1100
RonadoAuthor Commented:
I opened this file with notepad and I see alot of stuff haveing to do with DMA.   sounds  like this could've been a problem for me since i didn't have it.  I went into the windows 98 cd and found the file and put it in windows where it said it was supposed to be.   Also i'm supposed to put a statment into system ini under {enhance 386} but I don't know what i'm supposed to put in there.  Please help, I may finnally have an answer here....
hi Ronado
Dont know the statement you're referring to in sys.ini
Will try and research. Where did you see that?
as to VDMAD.VXD,  I show 2 identical files in my pc,
one in C\windows\system and the other in c\windows\system\vmm32

Also, open your boot log and search for vdmad
It should show loaded succesfully at four different times.

check that Ronado

here's what you can try to set your buffer size

Go into the Control Panel and change the DMA buffer size to 64k. Here are the steps to do this:

*      From the Start menu select the Control Panel
*      In the Control Panel window, select the System icon
*      In the System window select the Device Manager tab then expand System Dvices and select Direct Memory Access Controller then Properties
*      In the Direct Memory Access Controller window select the Settings tab
*      Turn Reserve DMA Buffer on and select a 64k buffer size. Also select Restrict DMA Transfers to memory below 16Mb

RonadoAuthor Commented:
Ok done all that.  I also got vdmad.vxd and put it in the same directories that yours is in.  But shessh still nothing.
I've been all over the internet tring to fingure this damn problem out and trying just about everything people suggested.  I have a few more things to try others suggested so if you can think of anything else please tell me here!!
Hi Ronado, it's been a while. Thanks for the heads up CenterV.

Ronado, without my having read each line of these posts, I'll make the following suggestion.

Move your slave hard drive from IDE#1 Slave to IDE#2 Master.

Move the CD-ROM Burner to IDE#2 as a slave to the hard drive.

Move the CD-ROM drive to IDE#1 as a slave.

Then check the bios recognition and then boot normally and try it.


RonadoAuthor Commented:
Both cdroms tell me NOT to run either as a slave.  Positively not to do that.  They both have the settings for that but they say do not run them that way or at least the Kenwood True x 52x
will NOT run properlly if you do.  It supposedly has drastic problems as a slave.  One of them is slow access and just plain slows down the drive.  The Kenwood is one of those new Zen powered
with 7 tracks all read in parallel simutanouslly!  Supposed to be one of the fastest CDROMs on the market next to it's big brother the 72X.   I called Kenwood.  He said I was running things properly and he told me to try new drivers.  I went up on Amptrons site and got the newest drivers for busmastering.  They are only 2 months old.  Didn't help.  Still the dma box will NOT stay checkmarked.  But it only does this on the cdroms.  The hd's checkmark fine.  Like I said before I ran debug and all is fine as well as the acceptence of busmastering on the secondary cdroms.
If I did what you told me to try and the dma worked, I couldn't leave things that way because of all my registry settings and directories and stuff.  I have alot of stuff being ran as d: and to change it to another drive letter would really screw my windows up, almost all of it!
But in the case of a test i'll try it tonight just to roll the dice again.  The Kenwood man said to try the drive in a friends computer to see what happens.
Well, even tho I know of no one that would let me do that, i still remeber back a few months ago when I HAD DMA settings on my cdroms and I had to take the checkmark out at that time because of incompatability with dma and one of the cdroms.  So I know the MB will handle this.  I just can't remeber how I had, or what I had, in the way of the controller driver I was running at that time.
Hey also, if this don't work mebe there's some type of controller card I can get that would accept this all better?   I sure wish now i hadn't spent the $100.00 on this new ATPI IDE
Kenwood.   I should've learn more about them first.  Because NOW I found out they come in scuzzie too.  Never have had problems with a scuzzie!!!   I'm stuck with this one now...well here goes
..  hope i don't screw everything up, even tho this is a temp change you meantioned.  Oh yeah, when I DID have this working properly at one time it was all arranged the same way now as it was then.  Just different controller drivers and different cdroms....

You comment, "If I did what you told me to try and the dma worked, I couldn't leave things that way because of all my registry settings and directories and stuff.  I have alot of stuff being ran as d: and to change it to another drive letter would really screw my windows up, almost all of it!"

Not true! Your hard drives receive their drive letter assignments before the cd rom drives.

By the way, other than being able to say you're running a 52X CD-ROM drive, what is the purpose of the high speed CD ROM, data? run from CD games?
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Yes, the high speed cdrom is for games for my kid.  They run slow and jerky without a high speed cdrom.  Slow i thought i'd get him one but this one does not run without dma.  It's just doing 2x right now.  Well I tried what you said and still the hd's run with dma but not either of the cdroms.  It seems so hopeless now.  Darn I had it all working once and I just wish I knew what happened....I DID lose a file VDMAD.VXD that i meantioned in another post.  And I replaced it after looking into it and seeing it had to do with dma.  Could I have another file missing?
You didn't replay about another controller card.  I know I can't run both IDE controllers but I could disable the MB one and run something that may do a better job mebe...or am i just pulling at straws?
If the Bios is current and everything is connected properly and windows recognizes it correctly, it should run at better than 2X. When you go into device manager and check the properties for the CD-ROM drive, is it set for 4X or better?
According to MS,"when you enable DMA support on the Settings tab in the properties for an IDE hard disk, the DMA check box in Device Manager may not remain checked even though the IDE controller supports bus mastering and DMA. This happens because the hard disk may not support a multiple-word DMA protocol." (MSWin98ResourceKit). Okay, it's not exactly a cure, but does it point you anywhere you haven't been?
Okay, could have read the whole thread.. that's where centerv was going with his debug command stuff. The secondary IDE drive should go exactly as the primary, but swap a 7 for the f in EACH line, so line one becomes 'o 176 ao' for example.
If the number returned after entering i 171 is 00, it accepts the DMA protocol timing you entered with the o 172 statement, and it supports DMA. A return of 04 indicates it does not support multiple word protocol. If your drive does support a DMA multiple-word protocol and the DMA box will not remain enabled, the IDE controller may not be compatible with the IDE bus mastering driver.   :o)
Dennis, thanks.
Ronado, as I mentioned in an earlier post, a controller card with its own drivers more evenly matched with your hardware
may be a good option.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
I looked at a report in my microsoft book and got the correct debug when I tried it.  It reported good on all drives.  And it says Multiple Word right accross the front of the drive.  So I guess that means it's accepted.  As far as it reading so slow, i was pretty confused about that myself but the tech at kenwood DID say this particular type of setup on a cdrom drive with the 7 read lasers will not hardly run at all without DMA.  I guess he's right.  The bios is just a few months old, so hmmmm looks like I better try ordering a really gud controller card and go from there.  I wish i had known this drive comes in scuzzie too.  Would have been so much simpler! No One meantioned abt my question if i have another file missing that could be screwing things up, since i did lose that other file.  If so how do i find out what all files are connected with the cdrom dma?
Try running the system file checker SFC,
from the Start, Run and see of there are any damaged or missing files.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Already did that earlier in this thread.  I was hoping you my have known some files just for dma.  I tried something a little different today and was going to shut down windows for the dos promt when i saw something that loaded saying creative labs.   I went back into windows and dropped out again to a prompt and paused it.  It had all types of dos commands loading my old creative labs drive.  I never did find out where those commands are stored.  not in the win.ini. sys.ini, autoexec.bat, confige.sys. registry...I couldn't find those commands written out anywhere.  So I looked in the add/remove area and saw my creative labs cd must have had a program to set up it's drivers.  So I thought wow, mebe this is my problem.  Well I removed whatever program that was in the add/remove section then tried dumping to a dos promt again.
All the same crap was still in there but this time it wasn't loading anymore.  When a line would come down beside it it now says "bad command"...So I still didn't get anything accomplished!   What would be nice is to be able to physically load my Kenwood drive in whatever area that is and use a /DMA switch to turn things on like we used to in the old days in autoexec.bat.
Another thing I tried AGAIN today was a bunch of different controller drivers.  I tried the microsoft drivers, they showed the dma box but wouldn't even take the checkmark on the hard drives!!!   I tried the standard drivers, without busmastering, "windows tech told me in win 98 you don't need the bus mastering controller to get dma."   He was sort of right because the dma boxes where all there not accepting the checkmark either.  I tried the intel drivers that worked on this mb in win 95
for busmastering that did not work this time.  Still got the boxes tho.    All these other controllers were horribly slow so i put my "ali" drivers back in reconized by the mb and got my hd's checkmarked for dma again.    This seems to be a endless circle.  But I just know it's something simple.  Just for the heck of it I tried the debug again and got the "00"
for all ok again.   If you no-one in the next few days has something new to try i'm ordering a different controller.   Might as well get a ata/66 in case i upgrade the drives again.   I just did last year tho but they were ata/33's......ahhh, welll, hmmmm.........
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Adjusted points from 1100 to 1200
Ronado, I suggested that you run SFC only because this thread is nearly 4 months old, and having run SFC a few weeks ago has no bearing on what is happening today given the number of changes you have made to the system and the files you have changed.

I understand your frustration with this issue, however while you may be changing drivers, it appears that one or more DLL's are not changing or are not being correctly registered. The unfortunate part is that you have made so many changes that it would be extremely difficult now, if not impossible, to determine which ones were effected.

Beyond the above, instead of installing a controller, given the cost for a good one, you might be better served by updating the motherboard.

RonadoAuthor Commented:
Well, I just got in a few new cases.  I build puters for friends and family i have in other states.  I need to build two more right now.  I think i'll use the one case for myself for a super computer and the other is already spoken for for a small scale one arn 500mhz.   I don't charge any labor for doing this, i just like doing it for friends.  I guess we might as well kill this thread.  Give it 3 more days and might as well give up.  I've messed arn so much with this one i'm still going to try a Promise ata/66 controller.  They are backwards compatible to ata/33.  If the boy wants this new cdrom and hd's to run faster he'll have to save towards 2 ata/66 drives i guess, then we'll get this thing a movin like it should be.  Got a computer show coming up soon.  They have them every month over here with great prices!!    If he has his McDonalds money saved by then i'll help him get 2 more drives too.  Against what you said, the MB is 1 year old so i'm not goin thru all that hash to put in another.  I'll just put a new controller in.  I'm going to right now and see how cheap they have it for.   Later....
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
You should edit the registry

HKLocal_Machine\Enum\SCSI\yourcdrom\..\where it listed the details config of your cdrom.

DMACurrentlyUsed   "01"

00 means unchecked the box
01 means checked the box

After editing, click the F5 to refresh the registry. Then, exit windows normal desktop. Restart to safe mode, examine it in the device manager. If the DMA box is checked now, then go to run registry checker and back up the current one. Then shutdown the computer. After 10-15 min, restart it to normal mode.
See if any help.     pslh
While I haven't read all the comments here, I do know that some CDROM drives simply will not operate in DMA mode on some motherboards while they will on others.  If placing the CDROM alone on its own IDE port (and enabling DMA in the BIOS for this port) doesn't allow this feature, you simply won't have it on this motherboard.  But, I also want to mention that you shouldn't percieve that much of a performance difference even if DMA was enabled.  Music CDs don't require much speed and loading a CD program once in a while won't be perceptably any slower...
RonadoAuthor Commented:
pslh, your comment really sounds like what i've been looking for.  Gonna go try it right now.

Firehawlk-I've had cdroms working here before.  And the cdrom is made for dma.
So i would think they'd try to make it fite most all the motherboards out there.
I dissconnected the other cdrom as thier tech asked too.  made no differnce. Read the thread a few back to answer your last question.

Dew-I ordered the new controller. got a great price on it!!  Everyone else was asking 50-57.00 bucks for it.  Everyone wanted retial. sold me one for a little over $20.00.  It's the newest promise ata/66...I've looked all over the internet for good priceing and you just cannot beat  They even paid for my shippping!!  I just wish they carried the mb's i'm going to put in the other computer cases i bought.  oh, well can't have eveything!!

Pslh-will get back to you about your idea in the regisrty!!

RonadoAuthor Commented:
pslh-Just got back from trying that...It sure looked nice to see the dma stay checkmarked after the refresh of the editing I did!!!!  But that didn't work either.  In safe mode it doesn't show my dma box at all, even on the hd's...So I waited awhile after rebooting to normal and windows redected the damn drive and changed it all back again.  I AM being to think this particular drive is not being accepted by MY motherboard.  So all I can hope for is the new controller will do the job.  

Hey I was reading the info on this new controller.  It say's it has a Non-windows software driver.  Does that mean
it will install it in the autoexec, or config.sys or both like we used to install all our other stuff.  I always was told to try to NOT use either one of those types of setups any more than absoultly necessary with windows!  Also will I be able to blank out everything such as my hd's AND cdrom's in the bios
for this controller card or just use it for the one device.  It say's it will run 4 MORE devices on it including the bios.  I want it to just run the cdrom or all of the HD's and cdroms.  This will be new to me.  I've never put in a seaparate controller before.
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado,I suggest you may try to take a look of the web site of Dennis - the Technical assistance - Motherboard and BIOS Issues - AMI BIOS help, where it also mentioned about the DMA settings.

Please check with your BIOS, within the page of Plug and Play function. See if there is any option for NVRAM (non-volatile ram ) or wordings which is set for the reset of the plug and play configuration of the BIOS.

please advise then.     pslh
Ronado, it really doesn't matter what any of us think (and don't take this the wrong way), but your chasing a ghost here. If you were able to check the DMA box and it stayed before, and now it doesn't then something has change to cause this. If you have eliminated the Bios as the cause as well as the drives, then only thing left is the OS and the drivers. If you have a registry error or an incorrect file, you could be here another 6 months and not find for no other reason than all of the changes you have made. What you might want to try is to stick a temporary HD into that box and load 98 fresh and see what happens. If the DMA box remains checked, then you have your answer and without having to work around a promise controller.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Dew-I don't understand why you say "stick a temp HD in the box".???  I have no problem with the dma's working with the computer.  Matter a fact I'm happy with the HD's, it's my son that wants everything faster.  But it's cdroms that have quit working properly.
So I bought him the BEST thinking at least THEY would make a drive the would work with almost all MB's as this drive is claimed to hardly work at all without it!   I don't have another "temp" drive at the moment to continue to play around with a fresh copy of win 98' to put on it.  So I just wish you could have helped me with my questions abt the controller as that's the way I have decided to go with this.  I could have really used the controller help.  ah welll...close the thread....
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado,have you gone to check the AMI BIOS if there is any NVRAM or flash area in the page of Plug and Play function?  It is designed for some BIOS to let the user reset the plug and play settings stored in the BIOS?   pslh
Again Ronado, please don't be offended, but the point is that you "don't understand". I asked you to put a temp drive in the box so that you could load Win98 freshly with the other components as is to see if you are now able to check the appropriate DMA boxes. If you can, it rules out hardware issue and your MB and then you can take a closer look as to whether a fresh install of 98 may be necessary.
Hi Ronado,

So many comments but no one could solve your problem.
Repair your SYSTEM.1ST registry by reinstall your windows with this method :

1. Backup your AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS
2. ATTRIB -r-s-h C:\SYSTEM.1ST
3. Delete only file C:\SYSTEM.1ST
4. Reinstall your Windows
5. Restore your AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS
6. Reboot your PC.

Good luck.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
John, that's a little confusing.  You say back up my autoexec and config and i guess your saying to put them into a file named system.1st then delete it?  And why attrib the file if i am going to delete it?  Or are you saying I already have a file called system.1st?  I don't.

DEW-I knew what you meant.  Like I said I don't have an extra drive laying around.

pslh-In my ami bios under plug and play there are alot of setups that the answers to most of them I have set at Plug and play.  I wish I could print screen in there but as you know you can't.  There are setups for the IRQ's of each slot and dma's for each slot, and alot of other stuff off the top of my head I can't remember.  But there is no "flash" setup in there.  The whole bios can be flashed but not in that one section alone.

BTW-I used SFC again and found alot of deleted files.  But they where all related to programs I have taken off the computer that were removed by the uninstall programs.  I checked ALL of them out with "file info" from reskit.
Hi Ronado,

What I mean is save your AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS on other FDD.
Or you can rename both of file for temporary, may be as AUTOEXEC.BA_ and CONFIG.SY_

SYSTEM.1ST is hidden file so you'll need to enable "Show All Files" on Explorer Options

Try this step :
1. Goto MS-DOS mode
   (usually will display prompt C:\WINDOWS)
2. Type CD\
   (usually will display prompt C:\)
4. Type ATTRIB -r -s -h C:\SYSTEM.1ST
5. Run SETUP.EXE on your Windows Installer CD-ROM
6. After finish, copy your original AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS that you save/rename before to drive C:\
7. Reboot PC.

Good luck.

Sorry, I made correction for :
1. Goto MS-DOS mode
   (usually will display prompt C:\WINDOWS)
2. Type CD\
   (usually will display prompt C:\)
4. Type ATTRIB -r -s -h C:\SYSTEM.1ST
5. Delete C:\SYSTEM.1ST
6. Run SETUP.EXE on yor Windows Installer CD-ROM
7. After finish, copy your original AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS that you save/rename before to drive C:\
8. Reboot PC.

Good luck.

RonadoAuthor Commented:
Ok John, will try next although I have reinstalled over this windows 2 times so far with always saving the autoexec and config too.  But I always have explorer set to show all files and still no system.1st.  I do show alot of other system hidden files tho.

PSLH-i'm going to type out all i've got in the plug and play section of my bios...shessh, i'm a slow typist too;




I see now how to set up my new controller card if still needed.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Ok John, will try next although I have reinstalled over this windows 2 times so far with always saving the autoexec and config too.  But I always have explorer set to show all files and still no system.1st.  I do show alot of other system hidden files tho.

PSLH-i'm going to type out all i've got in the plug and play section of my bios...shessh, i'm a slow typist too;




I see now how to set up my new controller card if still needed.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
John-what do I do if I have no "system.1st"???

PSLH-what does the above page tell you that you want me to try?
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronaldo, Is this the same Pc as the one per your last question about the wordpad? Win98se? and IE what version?

<<BTW-I used SFC again and found alot of deleted files.  But they where all related to programs I have taken off the computer that were removed by the uninstall programs.  I checked ALL of them out with "file info" from reskit.>> Can you give us an idea what you have uninstall? During SFC, have you restore them or update them or just ignore them.

Give me some more data about your system. Go to the control panel,device manager. Expand the system devices and find the Direct memory access controller. click the properties, Settings Tab, is there any boxes being checked in reserving/restricting DMA. Go to the safe mode to the same page of device manager and check the driver date of Direct memory access controller. Moreover, checking is there more than one devices with the same name but with different driver dates.

Go to check C:\windows\sysbckup\. Take note on the rb*.cab. How many are there with date? Is there any

More information about your system will help us to perceive your computer.    pslh
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Yes it is.  I built it for the boy but i use it too.  Yes win98 SE. Explorer 5.5 i just updated it yesterday.  I set up the DMA controller just the way you told me to awhile back. Checkmarked reserve DMA buffer for 64k-bytes.  And Retricted DMA transfers to memory below 16 MB.  Remember? Driver date is 4-23-1999.  I have 6 rb*.cab's. dates are
TWO  6-10-2000
TWO  6-18-2000

and one

does this help?
RonadoAuthor Commented:
PSLH  sorry, it was centerv that told me to set the dma contoroller settings..
going to safe mode right now.  takes forever to get in there.  be back.
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, What is the date of You've said that you've tried to reinstall windows twice but still have had the same problem. I would like to know when you did those trials and how (by overloading on top of the existing windows Win98se or win98)?
I wonder why this two cabs are so distant away? What are their numbers rb00?.cab  9-17-1999  rb00?.cab 5-26-2000          pslh  

RonadoAuthor Commented:
6-10-2000 is the date of the bad cab.   I did those back when i had the problem with wordpad.  I was told to reinstall overtop of win98se with win98 se.  
9-17-1999 -
5-26-2000 -

I checked the safe mode on the dma controller and everything else.  The only thing duplicated is
PCI steering.   There's 4 of them.   When I take out three it puts them all back in.  They all are the same date and driver too.   Intresting tho, when I am in this mode right now, it isn't even in there at all!
Hi Ronado,

I don't know may be SYSTEM.1ST has deleted accidentally from your PC before.
If you don't have file SYSTEM.1ST, so skip step 4 & 5 on my last comment before.
Usually Windows will have SYSTEM.1ST when first installed or when re-installed.

Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, this information is very interesting at the point of this moment as I perceived.

9-17-1999 - is created at the first time you've installed win98 from a clean one. It contains all the hardware and its settings in the registry at the first time (without your newly added cdroms) and then compressed at a later dates. However, it has some problem in your system that the registry cannot be replaced/refreshened by the next backup of the registry daily.

Till the next date 5-26-2000 - was created by the backup of the registry.

In the mechanism of win98/win98se, the first cab - contains some data about your system enumeration served as a root of database and will be served as a reference for the later backup copies of ,  
Once you've got a bad registry in comparing with the old and original copies, it will back up and marked as

You've changed the value as I mentioned in the registry. But on the next boot, the newly adjusted registry will be compared with the old copies to detect any differences. I suspected your old backup copies which contain the original enum data of did play a part to make your system thought that your newly changes was a part of error and it changed automatically back the DMA boxes to the unchecked state.

Thus, I suggested that you may try followings to see if there is any effect.

(1) Make certain your system is now running normally by scandisk and removed all the Internet temp files and *.tmp files in the temp directories. Do not remove cookies nor those tmp files created by MsOffice nor msdownload.tmp. Then defrag your drive.
(2) Go to unchecked those boxes in the Direct memory access controller. ie. unchecked [ ] reserve DMA buffer for 64k-bytes.  And [ ] Retricted DMA transfers to memory below 16 MB. Let Windows handle it.

    A footnote per my personal study, UDMA for a drive is quite different from those of DMA controlling devices eg. sound cards etc.

(3) Go to edit the registry of the HKLocal_Machine\Enum\SCSI\yourcdrom\..\where it listed the details config of your cdrom.

DMACurrentlyUsed   "01"

00 means unchecked the box
01 means checked the box

After editing, click the F5 to refresh the registry. Then, exit the registry. Go to inspect the device manager of the cdrom that the DMA box is now being checked.  

(4) Next, go to copy/move all the rb*.cab (,,...including the to some other directory other than the C:\windows\sysbckup\.

    Now, within C:\windows\sysbckup\, there is none of the rb*.cab files.

(5) Restart the computer to command mode.
    At the C:\> prompt, type scandisk and enter to scan the disk. Fix any error if asked.
    Then, at the C:\> prompt, type "scanreg /backup" without the quotation mark and enter.
    It will create a using your last edited registry in normal mode.

    For this file you will find that it is not in a compressed state which is much in a larger size more than 1.5mb. This is normal.

    Then restart your computer from cold boot to normal desktop. will be compressed in a smaller file size on the next date if the scan registry is being enabled at the startup. You have to make certain by doing this:-
    Start-run, type "msconfig" without the quotation mark, OK to open the System Configuration Utility.
    At the Startup tab, checked the box for
    [x] ScanRegistry C:\windows\scanregw.exe autorun
(6) Afterwards, inspect for a few more runs and on the next few dates if the DMA boxes for the cdrom being stayed as checked or not.

Please advise if you've any queries.    pslh
RonadoAuthor Commented:
I did everything you said "to the letter" but it still won't hold the dma checkmark.....sad and confused........
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, please advise what's now showing within the sysbckup folder- the details of rb*.cab and its size? Double click the rb*.cab to open it. There should be 4 files - system.dat,system.ini, user.dat, win.ini. Inspect the dates of each of the files? Double click the file win.ini within the cab to extract it to one of the temp directory. Does it open a prompt window to ask you to browse the path for extraction?

Let's wait for a few more date to see if the and created on daily basis. Or a quick access method is to change the date of the system by advancing one more day and restart the computer from COLD boot.
<<but it still won't hold the dma checkmark>> please tell at which step of the process that you found that again.  pslh
RonadoAuthor Commented:
8794080-is the size of  Now there is also a too.  It's size is 2096248.  It just made that one when it booted up.  Yes it prompts for where i want to extract it too.  It held the dma after i hit F5 in the registry. Then I did all you told me too, rebooted to the command prompt and did all that stuff then came back to normal and it was gone.  Why is the new cab file it just made so little? what's up with that?
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Both cab files have exactly the same size files in them when extracted.  so i guess the file it made today it compressed it more for some reason.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
well, i think i figured something out on my own.  I was looking at the inside of "m5229.mpd" the driver for busmastering and DMA.  And in there I saw where I could go into the registry and Force dma on the cdrom.   I just changed the "00" to a "01" and sure enough I had dma checkmarked in the boxes!  I rebooted and still it was checkmarked!!    B-U-T.....It really screwed up the drive.  It'd hardly run at all!!   I think the reason the cdrom is NOT accepting dma on it's own is because it either does NOT like my cdrom, it does NOT want to work with my controller, OR it does NOT like the driver I am using.   One way or the other the two don't like each other.   So my new controller comes in today, i just checked the tracking at ups on it, so I will install and get back to everyone on how it worked out for me.  Everyone keep your fingers crossed!!!   I need all the luck I can get!!
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, though you have not mentioned where you forced the DMA.

I would suggest checking the registry:

You may find sub-keys for primary Bus Master IDE controller and secondary Bus Master IDE controller.
There is a value IDEDMADRIVE

You may find
IDEDMADRIVE0        "01"
IDEDMADRIVE1        "01"

01 means UDMA is enabled for your drive in the captioned IDE controller key if there are 2 drives as Master (0) and Slave (1)

00 means UDMA is disabled.

There are advantages and disadvantages to enabled the UDMA in win98SE.

If enabled, you will get optimal performance for hard disks if there are UDMA hard disks.

However, in win98se some cdroms or cdrw or DVDrom may have problems if UDMA is enabled. Most of the problems are shut down, resume on suspend, play audio cd or some cdrw disk may not be compatible during writing mode and may hang etc...

Those have been published in the Mssupport KB. The only resolutions has to be done by the drive or BIOS manufacturer. The workaround for user is only advised to disable the DMA mode for your drives (cdroms,DVD or optical devices) in secondary IDE.

Therefore, perhaps this is your case. You may have to determine whether to enable it or disable it under user's specific occasion.

I hope this can help you.      pslh
RonadoAuthor Commented:
well, the manufactuer says that I will NOT get my 52X speeds if it is NOT ENABLED.   I am now just getting 2x .  And I called and talked to there tech at kenwood and they told me that this 7 head drive is designed to work with dma.  It has to have it just to function properly.  So I have no choice, i have to get this to work.

the area i found the dma driver at was HK_Local_
Machine\software\ali\M5229\  right here it said "forceDMAonHd      or  Force DmaOnCdrom"   So that's how I did it.  and the system properties showed the box checked everytime I rebooted.

I just went up to the registry where you are talking abt and there are 7 controllers listed up there!  That isn't right is it?
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
hdc - 0000 - driverDesc - Bus Master IDE Controllert up to the registry where you are talking abt and there are 7 controllers listed up there!  That isn't right is it?>> I thought there may be something wrong here. You have to check each of them to inspect if there is any duplicates. Normally, it should be 3 as following: -
hdc - 0000 - driverDesc - Bus Master IDE Controller
hdc - 0001 - driverDesc - Primary Bus Master IDE Controller
hdc - 0002 - driverDesc - Secondary Bus Master IDE Controller

The names should be as the same in the device manager for your IDE controllers.

You may try not to use that "Force DmaOnCdrom". Reset it to the "00" status.

Then set the Secondary IDE -Drive0 (primary = 52xcdrom) in the hdc and set it to be "01". See if DMA checkmarks substain and not having problem in playing audio cd.

RonadoAuthor Commented:
I deleted the others. going out to see what happens now.
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, When I post this comment just after the running up of EE system, there are comments of 2days (22nd,23rd) missing.

What's your status now? I've taken and finished a trial test but using a Intel 810 system as a counter scenario. I will post more about it later. One thing interesting and forgot to ask you, how you test and justify your Creative 52x cdrom is using what speed (as you said several times it is now running at 2x.) Do you play VCD in yr system?

Also, you mentioned when you install the Bus master driver for the IDE controller, there is a *.mpd. How you were advised to install that drivers.

Expand the list of hard disk controller in the device manager. Please list the full name of each of them and also the driver details here for perspective analysis.

TIA.      pslh
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Yes, MY comments are getting deleted.  I don't know why or how.

I have two shareware cd programs that test speed and transfer rates.  Onr is called "cdspeed 99", and the other is called "Check CD".  They both come with high credentials and they both show the same speed.  One of them said after a run to enable DMA for full speed!

The bus master drivers are, m5229.mpd.  It has it's own program that you can uninstall your old drivers and put in the new ones.

I went up to the "ali" site to get them.  That's the name of my chipset.  The m5229.mpd came with the MB but they were old.  These are only but a months old.

I don't know what details you are looking for.
It just say's, ali primary HD controlller and ali secondary HD controller.  Manufacter is ali Labs INC.    "This device is working properly "6-21-2000"  ,,File version 3.56.  Driver details is c:\windows\system\iosubsys\m5229.mpd, and c:\windows\system\vmm32\ios.vxd.........Resources are input output range 01f0-03f7  and  03f6-03f6.   Interupt request "14" and another input/output  ffao-ffa7. then at the bottom says ?no conflicts...That's all I see on the primary.  the secondary is identical except for it's resources.  Input/output are  0170-0177   and  input/output is
0376-0376.  Interupt request 15.  And another input/output  ffa8-ffaf.  That's all of it.  Oh yeah, at the bottom of the box say's "no conflicts"...OK?
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, Take a search in the registry.
1) HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Enum\SCSI\ your cdroms are listed there?
2) HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Enum\MF\CHILD0000 Your enum of the primary controller
   HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Enum\MF\CHILD0001 Your enum of the secondary controller
3) HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Class\hdc\
    [0000], [0001], [0002].... Hard disk controller of the Bus master and Pri/Sec IDE controller

Export the registry of key (1),(2), (3) of above-mentioned to other directory or back up disk.

Make certain the location of the driver of the IDE controller e.g. *.inf, m5229.mpd, (e.g.)

Restart the computer to the safe mode, go to the device manager and remove both the cdrw and 52x cdrom.

Go to the registry in safe mode, to the key (1). Inspect if both cdroms has been removed from the registry. Then go to the keys of (2) and (3), remove all the sub-keys eg. Child000* of MF, and 000* of hdc. But don't remove/delete the key of hdc and MF.

Refresh registry by F5. Go to the device manager, expand the hard disk controller. You may find there is none. Moreover, in the hard disk you may find the original device of your seagate and western digital hard disks have disappeared too. Don't panic, your hard disks are still there. It only reflects the corresponding registry has gone but not physical.

Restart the computer to normal mode. The IDE controllers will be reinstalled and you will be asked to locate where the IDE controller driver for m5229. Install as proceedings.

Your cdroms will be redetected in the device manager. Then go to unchecked the box for Auto-insertion notification of the cdroms.

Restart the computer for at least 3 times to make changes effective as registered in the registry.

Afterwards, inspect the DMA boxes and the speed of the cdrom.

Advise us your test result.        pslh
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, as per my question for asking if you did play the drive with VCD? Perhaps I added some of my thought here for your analysis in your situation.

For playing audio cd/music cd, 1x or 2x is sometimes sufficient for obtaining good result. However, VCD can only play on a cdrom with speed >6x. The drives of cdrom/cdrw may have to be initialized by installation of a VCD playing programmes. These programes will initialize and unlock your drive and play at >6x or 8x or higher. Once you played a VCD using the 52x Creative cdrom, it will be reset the drive speed at default speed in DMA mode per your cdrom and not locked at 2x speed.

Moreover, if UDMA mode is loaded, you have to remove the line for Mscdex in both config.sys and autoexec.bat. The real mode driver will cause problem in initialisation of UDMA of your cdroms.

I mentioned once again, Win98SE is intentionally skipping the setting for DMA checkbox for the secondary cdroms on both primary and slave in their default IDE controllers. It relates to the programming of the IDE driver. Some motherboard manufacturer have their own IDE driver *.mpd which is used to enable and support the UDMA mode. However, these drivers may have their different language to configure or interpret the UDMA mode (UDMA33 or UDMA66 ...etc). Thus, even you cannot get the box of DMA checked again, your system may not be interpreted as DMA mode for your cdrom drives is disabled.

Some motherboard and some cdroms or dvd or cdrw manufacturers may have specific diagnostic programs to detect the UDMA is enabled or not. (In my test machine, there is two such specific diagnosis settings).

Therefore, for general user, I advise if you can install a VCD playing software and do carry a VCD playing. If it can play well, at least your drive is running in 8x or higher. Close the VCD program but without removing the VCD disk from your drive or without restart the computer. The drive is still in a state of transfer speed set at drive's default. Then run your Cdspeed99 program and checking the transfer rate. It may reflect a breakthrough here.

RonadoAuthor Commented:
Just about aLL my replies on here are getting deleted.  I don't know what's going on as I don't know if you are able to see my relpies to you.
The registry change corrupted my registry.  Mebe I didn't do it exactly like you told me too.  I had to do a scanreg /restore to get things going again.
Most time I have no problems editing the registry.

Your probably not able to read this answe as it'll probly get deleted right after I get thru.

Where do I find this program "VCD"????
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, <<The registry change corrupted my registry.>> During restart to normal, did it ask you to reinstall the IDE controllers. If you not pointing to the right path of the *.inf, it may not reinstall correctly. If you're not sure the path, Click the details of the prompt window and use Find to find out. Normally, it is in the C:\windows\INF and C:\windows\system\iosubsys.

About the VCD programs, any other experts can offer good advices on these??? I knew there are some others but not sure if there are any free shareware available.

FYI, I'm using the Cyberlink PowerDVD program and it can read both Video CD and Digital Video disk.

RonadoAuthor Commented:
where do you go to get these programs?
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, here....
Click to download the following 30-day trial versions:

PowerDVD version 2.55

Odyssey VCD Player

RonadoAuthor Commented:
I tried that program it's still really jerky on high megabyte avi's.
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, those software are playing for video cd disk of movie. You have to adjust the playback configuration using Direct draw rather than using the CPU/GDI. Also change the resolution and refresh rate to display adapter default and change to higher e.g. 24bit true color. Then adjust back to lower 256 or 16bit high colors.

You may try to download the cyberlink Video cd player in the same link.

Playing the video movie is to test your drive.

For playing high megabyte avi's (or mpeg files e.g those video chips in win98se cdrom), you can use Media Player of windows without the use of those video movie software playback programs. If you place the win98se cdrom in the 52x cdrom and play those avi or mpg file using the Media Player, it runs using your CPU/GDI resources. See if it is jerky or not. You may have to adjust the refresh rate of your display graphic card to adapter default and set the resolution to different settings for trial. If there is still problem, try to copy the avi/mpg file to your hard disk and play it there. There is not much related to the speed of your cdrom.

Hi Ronado,

May be you need this link to get right driver for your SB 52X CD-ROM :

This comment got dropped on the 22nd also. Maybe thread is too long?

As I StAtEd back on Mar 18, I don't have the knowledge to confirm my thoughts. Maybe one of the experts (DEW, pslh, you,...) can tell me that windows can handle more than 7 devices assigned to use DMA without conflicts. I don't know enough about DMA (or PC's) but it was a thought that came to mind.

Also, back in April 9 I stated,
I recently had a similar problem with my PC after I installed an older non pnp network card.  The computer decided it found all the hardware as new and reloaded everything. I lost the DMA boxes and they would not stay checked.  I fixed it by reinstalling the updated IDE drivers that came with the MB. Everything got reassigned nicely and the DMA stayed checked after the next boot.

(4 months is a long time not to start fresh.)

I will only watch and learn from now on. Hope you have happy computing.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
 The thread was too long and MY relies to the people were getting deleted!            
RonadoAuthor Commented:
This question has a deletion request Pending
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
This question no longer is pending deletion
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, Dave and Dennis. Your comments on dates 21-24 was not intentionally deleted. There was a crash on 23rd of EE and EE is now using the backup copy of 21st in continuation of the running. I thought they're now working hard to recover the data of those 2 missed dates but it sounds they might have been lost during the crash.

Dennis has a good comment at that period if he can repost that.

Dave/Daddude, some materials posted by me Monday, June 26 2000 - 08:37AM EDT may help you a bit. About your assignment of DMA for 7 devices. The DMA 0-7 as you viewed from device manager is quite different from the case of UDMA of a hard disk/cdroms/dvd/cdrw etc... These devices if supported for certain DMA mode (PIO,DMA-sw,DMA-mw,UDMA-mode 0,1,2,3,4,or above) are containing the specific configuration designed in the drive's own chipset attached underneath the drive itself. Now, enabling the DMA/UDMA of the drive means not to consume the CPU resources  (DMA allocation in the memory/ram area) but directly access the drives's chipset that makes the transfer rate faster without the interpretation of the CPU/RAM.

In my test machine of Intel 810, at the early stage, the DMA check box is hardly removed away the being checked status as it reflected in the registry by IDEDMADRIVE0 "01".

Then changed to using a new UATA driver of Intel, the driver itself changed the language. The DMA box has disappeared as the new driver do not recognised the IDEDMADRIVE0 "01" but it has its own programming language to notify the UDMA status of a drive (e.g. here they used the "PrimaryMasterMode 0x00000ff4" where ff4 is denoted to be equivalent to UDMA66-mode 4.) Now the test machine is missing the check box of DMA in device manager. However, the hard disk is running at UDMA66-mode4 and the secondary master 5xdvd rom is running at UDMA33-mode 2 and the secondary slave Philip cdrw is running at DMA-mw mode.

This is a fairly general case and a hot topic in current win98se.

Thus, it also co-incides with the comment of Dennis previously posted just before the crash date of EE. If the new IDE driver has changed in the case of Ronado, he is chasing a ghost of those DMA boxes. Thus, one of the best way is to apply the drive in applications.

Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, as far as I reviewed this thread, there are at least ,but not limited to, 4 persons - Centerv, scottem, Dennis and pslh had put valuable materials to help you walking through your query.

Sometimes, it is very difficult to get users comprehend that as technology is being advanced to another new breakthrough. I recalled a similar case when ACPI was introduced in win98 in comparison with the old APM of win95. A lot of users were not quite comprehended why some old function has been omitted without much briefing from either software and hardware manufacturers according to their specific design of the system.

I post here one article for you so that you may have a better perspective.

In my humble opinion, Ronado you may perhaps need to pay a little more patience in reviewing  those trouble-shooting steps posted by me and review some other material posted by Cyberlink and cdspeed99. If you do configure well the Cyberlink which need a Bus Master IDE driver and DMA mode cdrom, it will play a video movie disk using the direct access controller which has been imparted in your 52xcdrom's chipset which is underneath the drive itself at speed more than 8x. Don't let the testing go back to using the CPU/GDI/Ram. You may not be too far away from the destination. Keep On if my comments can back you up!!!

Here, I have to thank Dennis as his participation did help me to keep up tesings in this thread in carrying onwards to have a better in-depth research. Thanks Den!!!!

Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, download the guide3.pdf dated June19,2000 and read through it. It also mentioned changes before and after. That would be quite similar to your situation in compared with the changes before in your system.Though the article still lack a detail description why it is an known issue for Win98SE of lacking the DMA box after upgrading the Bus Master drivers. 

However, it may enlighten you more about the Ultra ATA mode of a drive.

Although I am unable to repost what I was lost when the E&E server crashed, my opinion on the issue hasn't changed.

This worked earlier until such time as you made some changes. The problem is either in the registry or a driver issue, but as I noted earlier and as Pslh notes, you may be chasing a ghost in that you would need to find out exactly what was changed, remove the problem files and restore the old ones. Unless you kept track of exactly what you have been doing, recovering will be difficult if not impossible.

Therefore my earlier suggestion of a format and reinstallation remains as the proposed solution.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
sounds like you guy's have given up on me.  I HAVE tried all that was meantioned by everyone.
If you all think that I could already have dma running although the dma box is not checked then why is my cd using 100 time of the cpu.  When DMA is working then i wouldn't be using all the cpu's time.  Don't you agree on at least that?  Now my cdrw runs just fine this way but the manufaturer says to NOT use dma on the cdrw.  BUT there was a time when I was able to checkmark the box and it stayed on dam for both cdroms.  But the cdrw told me to turn it off so I just unchecked it.  And I left the standard cdrom checkmarked.  Everything was working fine then.  But I have changed the master cdrom several times and my hard drives.  The hard drives continue to work fine in dma checked.  But now neither cd rom remains checked.  And the first time I installed the cdrw it stayed checkmarked, so if that is so then why not now?
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Also, I have tried ti install over this many times.  But the problem with that is you get the older win 98 se installing files that I have already updated with the new bug fixes.  That just tends to scre things up worse.  Dew as I meantioned before I no longer have the install apps to put my programs back on with or I would do a a new full install.  I only wish I could.  But if I did there'd be hardly anything left on the computer to give me a reason to have windows!  So I'm sorry for you and for me but that is still not an option.  I still feel there is something small we've over looked.  So If you guys have used all your rsources then I will close the question and look elsewere.   Eventually I have this other computer i'm building that will temp be by testbed for this problem where I WILL have a fresh copy of windows on it.  But I don't have the cash so far so that's a way off.  Let me know If you want the question deleted....
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, I still don't know why after there have been so many suggestions for trials and you still loop back to the same queries without mentioning any timing of the happenings nor works which have been done prior to each of your questions.

If you don't help us to perceive your situation or thread it out, it is extremely difficult for us to help you to thread it out too, though we did carry out trial test or any testing scenario to simulate your environment.

For example, I advised you to clear the registry and reinstall the drivers. I did carry out in my machine before posting those procedures. My registry did not get corrupted nor crashed. But why you did have that. It may cover something but you didn't tell us nor you did not carry out the second trial to review the reason behind which may be the cause.

Now, per your new comment and mentioned << why is my cd using 100 time of the cpu. >>

I think you're telling us some of your test result data from the cdspeed99.

Then, please advise us how you run the test and then save the test result in Text format and post it here.    
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
My queries.....
From: Ronado  Date: Tuesday, May 30 2000 - 06:46PM EDT
(1) Why there are many C:\WIN95\ files loading? Is there any files of win95 still left over in the system both in file directory and in the registry?

(2) The primary master is a 8.4 gig 66/ATA udma seagate.
    The slave is a western digital 8.4 66/ATA udma.
    But why the hard disks are showing in Device manager as "GENERIC IDE DISK TYPE 47".
    Normally, the drive name will be used. Can you check those names of Seagate and western digital out in the registry HKEY_LocalMachine\enum\SCSI? What is showing in HKEY_LocalMachine\enum\ESDI. I think you may have a subkey folder under it and it is assigned as "GENERIC IDE DISK TYPE 47" and which is being reflected in the device manager rather than using the keys under HKEY_LocalMachine\enum\SCSI.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
My HD's are showing in device manager by thier own names.  Not as a generic name.  And they are ATA 33/mb.  Both of them and they are working great with dma.  They show up in the regisrty only under thier own names.
   And when I tried to do that registry thing you had me do I must have fouled it up.  I am NOT a proffesional in the registry and Moving subkeys folders around scares the hell out of me but I tried it and failed.  What else could I have done?   It took quite awhile to get things back together after that.  Just nameing a data key or dword is about as far as I can go in the registry.   Hey I TRIED!
And I don't think I have any or many of the original win95 files left.  The c:\win95 just happens to be the name of my windows directory since 98 nor 98 se gives you the oportunity to change the directory name.  If so I guess I just don't know that one.  Also I HAVE come back everytime with conclusion's of the tests' but remeber I was complain abt the idea that my replies were getting deleted?   Hey I've been doing thing just how asked and reporting back so don't come down on me for that.   I thought someone was getting tired of the thread so they kept deleteing me.    Oh well, lets not have this come down to an accusation match.  Just tell me when to delete the question.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
I just went back into some of the other questions and I saw where you got the idea that my HD's are ata/66mb.  I really thought they were till I actually took them out and looked. Been alot of computers I've built since then .   And I used all ata/66's in them.  So I'm sorry for the misconception there! .  No I want to buy some 66's for the new machine i'm building and that's probably where THAT came from!  And when I meantione the standard type generic drive names was way back when we started on this.  They were names that before.  But remeber when I told you that I put in the NEW "ALI" bustmastering drives?   That took out the generic drives.   So it's been THIS way a long time.  But I told you that.
DADUDE meantioned way back about the 7 dma channels.  he's correct but since i'm not using anything for the cdroms that leave me 2 dma channels open.  I should be able to get just the one I need for the ONE cdrom.
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:

<<My HD's are showing in device manager by thier own names.  Not as a generic name.  And they are ATA 33/mb.  Both of them and they are working great with dma.  They show up in the regisrty only under thier own names. >> They are now working in dma33 but those DMA checkboxes has gone or being there but unchecked?

<<Also I HAVE come back everytime with conclusion's of the tests' but remeber I was complain abt the idea that my replies were getting deleted?   Hey I've been doing thing just how asked and reporting back so don't come down on me for that.   I thought someone was getting tired of the thread so they kept deleteing me.    Oh well, lets not have this come down to an accusation match.  Just tell me when to delete the question. >>
Ronado, if you feel a little bit tired, we can have a break (a coffee break or having some white wine or a few cups of beer, if you don't mind to join a lady as I can take a litre of white wine.) As perceived from me, you're not that kind of people that is so easily to give up.  

<<And when I tried to do that registry thing you had me do I must have fouled it up.  I am NOT a proffesional in the registry and Moving subkeys folders around scares the hell out of me but I tried it and failed.  What else could I have done?   It took quite awhile to get things back together after that.  Just nameing a data key or dword is about as far as I can go in the registry.   Hey I TRIED! >> I knew that you've tried. I hope that you will not scare to edit it again. If you're willing to continue, please go to the registry.
Place the mouse to the following key folders, drag down the menu of Registry-Export registry file- a prompt window will be open and ask you to save the selected branch as file type of Registration Files (*.reg) or All Files (*.*), Save the selected branch with a name that you can note what it contains and as *.reg.

(1) HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Enum\MF        save as "HKLC-Enum-MF.reg"
(2) HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Enum\ESDI      save as "HKLC-Enum-ESDI.reg"
(3) HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Enum\SCSI      save as "HKLC-Enum-SCSI.reg"
(4) HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Class\hdc
    save as "HKLC-S-CCS-S-C-hdc.reg"

Then paste them here or email those 4 files to me at or

If you have run the cdspeed test, either capture the screen or save them as test files and email to me too.

With best regards.   Patricia/pslh
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, please include also this key
    save as "HKLC-S-Ali-M5229.reg"

RonadoAuthor Commented:
well it looks like I have been edited out again.  3 new messages i put on last night are gone.  I'm going thu alot of work just to have it destroyed by this site.
I already pasted one of the captures I took of cd speed here.  but as you can see, it's not here now. I'll go make another paste of it. Here it is again!!!  And how about BEFORE I do any moving around in the registry that I just paste the files and send them to you thu hotmail?   Then you'll be seeing what I am seeing. I'm still afrid to mess anymore with the registry but i'll print this out and go look and try one to see how that works.
I sure made a mess of it up there last time.

CD Speed 99            

27 June 2000 - 8:33:26            

CD-ROM drive information            
Vendor      KENWOOD
Product      CD-ROM UCR-412  
Firmware Version      124K

CD information            
Type      Data
Length      74:55.71

Test results            

Transfer rate            
Average      2.40x
Start      2.40x
End      2.40x
Reading type      CLV

DAE quality            
Score      N/A
Accurate stream      No

Seek times            
Random      86 ms
1/3 Seek      100 ms
Full      164 ms

CPU usage            
1X      100%
2X      100%
4X      100%
8X      100%

Burst rate      N/A

Spinup/Spindown Time            
Spinup Time      3.49 sec
Spindown Time      3.11 sec

Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, hmm..lost postings,perhaps EE is still having some minor problems of the aftermath after the crash of database server.

<and how about BEFORE I do any moving around in the registry that I just paste the files and send them to you thu hotmail?> you may send those files directly to my email: and I will repost them here for other experts studying too.       pslh  
RonadoAuthor Commented:
what about my cdspeed.  do you see it here?  what does this tell you?  Looks to me like 2 speed at 100%
cpu usage.  Right?  surely no dma. right?
I can relate to your not wanting to reformat and loosing all from scratch
and maybe still come up empty,
but after followind this post this long,  and you putting all the time in this you have,
without offending anyone, the best idea that I feel was put forward is loading a temp drive from scratch(Dennis).
You have nothing to loose and will get your answer. If reformatting works, you'll be ahead to reload fresh.
As an aside, money not being a consideration, I don't let my kids near my computers.
They have their own to  play with as they wish.
Good luck.
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, Well receipt your zipped reg (11Mb). Will study and post some of my idea later ASAP.

<<what about my cdspeed.  do you see it here?  what does this tell you?  Looks to me like 2 speed at 100%
cpu usage.  Right?  surely no dma. right?>> I see it here. It did show the test result is a flat curve 2.40x. The type CAV-data, is that a Video cdrom or a data disk?
Is that showing a similar test result if placing a music cdrom of type P-CAV audio?

RonadoAuthor Commented:
don't matter what type of disk run, it always comes out the same....
Thanks for taking the time to educate me a little more. Very gracious.  I also noticed E-E was having problems and did not think the deletions were intentional.  
Ronado's board only goes to 33/ata.
My device manager for hard disk drivers shows the primary and secondary IDE controlers (dual fifo)  AND the one that I had to reload from the installation disk to get the DMA back again - VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller (FIC 503+ mb -  also only 33ata)

Thanks again,
RonadoAuthor Commented:
I saw something tonight when I booted from the computer being turned off.  It seems I am running msdex and my cdrom driver when booted ONLY from being turned off is when this shows up on the screen.  And it is just a flash. Can't pause it it.  It runs too fast.  From everything I've read abt windows I'm NOT supposed to have this running in dos.  Devich manager shows no "real mode" drivers running tho.  I've looked everywhere this could be loading from and can't find anything.  Autoexec is clean, config.sys is clean, Ini files are clean. msdos.sys is clean.  Where could this be coming from.  Or should I just not worry abt it?
Ronado, Wow, Just got done reading the entire thread and I have to admit: Myself, I would never put myself thru all of that and would have reloaded a long time ago from scratch.  However, respecting your wishes, here are my thoughts:
1) As far as the MSCDEX drivers, etc.: Click on START, RUN, & type MSCONFIG and hit ENTER.  Click on the "Startup" tab and ensure that they aren't starting from there(you can disable the start of any of the programs in the list simply by unchecking the item).
Then, if that didn't find it, Click on START, RUN, & type POLEDIT(if not installed is on the Win98 CD) and hit ENTER.  Click on FILE/OPEN REGISTRY and search in there for items that may be getting started up/run with windows.(Don't worry, POLEDIT is much easier to understand then your REGISTRY itself, It's like a Graphical Interface for the REGISTRY.)
2) About what time-frame did you install this so-called "Booteditor" (same time problem started occuring?)and could something that it affected be the culprit?  If you still have it, check to see if the CDROM drivers are incorrectly loaded in there.
3) At one time, you had said, you were missing "vdmad.vxd".  Do you have a file called "mastrlnk.vxd" & if not, could you please restore it using SFC as described previously and see if that helps.
4) I am a little bit confused about what Win98 version you are using.  At one point you said that you were using Win98SE, However, at another point, you were talking about a Windows folder that was named Win95(NOT a good idea to name your Windows folder anything other than "Windows". Anyway, If you are using the Win98 Upgrade Version, go check out this site:
(It explains some issues with loosing 7 *.vxd files and how to get them back.)

Just a note on the your "offboard controller", you never needed that unless your board was bad and in that case, you would want to get a new board anyway.

Let me know how you make out.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
well I had a big comment here and it got ommitted
somehow.  getting tired of this.

Redhorse-No worry abt msdex, it just plain quit doing that!  It don't load msdex anymore.  don't know why...

I tried to install poledit from the win 98 cd and it won't run.  It says it can't find a file that's setting right beside it in the same directory.

I didn't have most the VXD's you meantioned in the article so I got what I could find of them on the cd.  But it didn't say where to put them.  so I put them in the windows\system\iosubsys  
AND in the just plain win directory too.  I'ts gotta find them in one of the 2 places!

The mastrink.vxd is NOT on any of my win 95, 98, or 98SE cdrom disk's.  I don't know where you got that but I can't find it anywhere.  It must not be necessary or it would be on one of my cd's.  I used msconfig too to locate and install the others.

My booteditor came with my 98' se edition disk.  It's working fine.  It just makes it a little easier to edit the msdos.sys file.

Win 98' SE is the newest version upgrade to win 98.  According to what I saw on TV the other night
there's going to another upgrade to this!  And I'm not talking abt win 2000!

When I first put on windows it named my widows directory "win95".  so it just stayed the same as I kept upgradeing.

The controller was cheap.  And I already have it installed in another computer i'm building for ata/66.

Please tell me where and how i can get that other file i'm missing "mastrink.vxd" and whether or not i'm installing the vxd's in thier proper directores.
Food for thought:
You should only be getting files from your Win98 CD/s or other reliable "Win98" source.
With that said:
In order to be sure that you put those "7 files" or any other files in the right place, you should be using SFC from the RUN dialogue and it will automatically put them where they belong.
(Incidentally, they should all go in either your "WINDOWS\SYSTEM", "WINDOWS\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS", or "WINDOWS\SYSTEM\VMM32" folders.)
Did you go to the look ".vxd fix" site:
as noted in the website that I reffered you to for Win98 Upgrd Users?
As for "mastrlnk.vxd" with an "L"(not "mastrink.vxd" with an "I") on your Win98 CD:
I may have been wrong about that.  That was a Win95 issue, but I am not sure what repaced it in Win98, if any file did at all. (Please forget about mastrlnk.vxd)
What file is causing the problem with POLEDIT?
Try refreshing that file from the Win98 CD.
If that doesn't work, get this ZIP file which contains all of the POLEDIT files:
Back to you.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
The only place I get my files is from the windows 98 cd.  Unlessm you or someone else suggests another location.  Like win update.  That's why I couldn't find that "mastrlnk.vxd" file.  I thought  [L]
was an "i".  My coke bottle eyes are getting worse sorry.

And I tried to use SFC to locate the files and it came up empty on most of them so I had to go looking through the cab files to find them.  They were there, don't know why sfc didn't find them!
I wentt to that

 web page and didn't find anything on it except about a guy talking abt his page being too old and he wasn't going to update it anymore.  But I looked arn on his "old" site and din't find where you were talking abt.  

I refreshed that program "poledit several times but it keeps saying it can't find the files in the same directory with the exe file.  It's even in my dos path so I don't understand why it didn't work.
The template of the program comes up with an error over top of it.

I'll try that new location and get back.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Hey some IMPROVEMENT!!    I got some old info way back when all my dma's were working on everythin.  Seems I was running an old version of Intels controller drivers and that's when everything was hunky dory!  So I went up on thier site and got one for the 440BX style MB i'm using and it won't even install.  Says that the MB chipset is NOT intel capable.  It said it'd be happy to remove an old version I already had in windows (which I don't) but it would NOT install.  Shessh isn't that a kick in the pants?  Well I thought just for the hell of it I'd try some different brands of controllers since you really can't hurt anything.  ZSo I tried just abt everything that came with windows that was possibly close enough but no cigar.  Then I let it load what windows wanted to by it'self and got a "Primary dual fiffo & a Secondary dual fiffo"...Then my HD drivers change to justn the "standard type 47" drivers.  Both of them.  The cdroms kept thier names but the hard drives changed.   They all had the dma boxes in them and NOW none of them, even the hd's" would remain checkmarked.  So I went into the registry and checked it all out and seems the hd's are running DMA even tho they are not checkmarked.  But the cdroms still were not.   BUT
I tested the cdroms on CDSPEED99 and they jumped from 2X to 16X.  A long way off from the 52X the kenwood is supposed to do, but it was a real improvment and really the ONLY improvement we have gotten so far!  Does this help shake anyones noggon out there?   Anyone know what I should try next?
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronaldo, I would like to put up a brief checklist for you again after reading your last email registry and your last comment. Some steps that you might have been done before. But repeat once again this checklist and ensure to carry out in sequential orders. Emphasis here again, any IDE controllers should be loaded before any enumeration of hardwares devices. The new driver containing the UDMA supportive programs is loaded in the VMM32 at the bootup of the system. You cannot amend it other than a complete renewal of enumeration.

(1) You need to have a right BIOS version so that it detects and support your UDMA/PIO harddrives and Cdroms drives. The Bios should auto detect both the hard disks and Cdroms and the PIO mode is enabled and 32bit access is enabled. If the drives is UDMA detected, it should state or be detected as UDMA mode 2 (UDMA/33).

(2) You need to get to know the right motherboard version so that you can get from the manufacturer - its IDE bus master controller which is supporting Bus mastering and UDMA (Ultra ATA) supportive. You can get the motherboard ID number by pressing <pause> at the first screen at the bootup while it is in Power-on-self-test, which is at the bottom of the left hand side of the screen. You may post this number here so that we may help you to identify the right manufacturer of the motherboard,if you deem necessary. Download the most update IDE driver to your computer. Pay attention to its readme text file.

(3) All IDE bus mastering feature/drivers (new update ones or restore old ones) should be loaded prior to any enumeration of the hardware devices.
         You need to uninstall all third parties softwares for your cdroms/cdrw drives and also for your hard disks. E.g. the programs for your Cdrw, Adaptec Easycd creater/Directcd or Packetcd or Write2cd etc. Also uninstall any drive-letter or drive guard programs, if any e.g. here a few of them PacketCd, ezsmart. The uninstallation can be done in Add/remove Programs in Control Panel. You should go to check in local machine (without any log on users desktop) that these programs have had already been removed.
         You need to remove all the previous IDE drivers for your motherboard. If there is specific installation programs e.g Ali or Intel, you need to use those programs' uninstallation method. Sometimes, the removal may be deemed necessary by editing the registry. Your specific IDE drivers *.inf may still stored in the C:\windows\INF. Move that file to some other directory as a backup.

         You need to remove all cdroms/cdrw/harddisk devices in the device manager.
         This could only be done in the safe mode.
(4) Restart the computer to normal mode, the IDE drivers (3 of them) will be redetected if Plug and Play function has been enabled in the BIOS. If drivers using the Win98SE cdroms, the driver for ESDI_506.pdr will be used as the Bus mastering IDE driver. The DMA function and DMA box will appear in the user interface of the harddisk/cdroms device in device manager. However, this bus mastering driver may not be the most suitable one for your motherboard.
    Install your motherboard IDE driver in normal mode. Restart the computer to the safe mode to remove all IDE  bus mastering and primary/secondary IDE controllers using driver ESDI_506.pdr and remove all cdroms/harddisk icons under the IDE channels.
    Restart your computer and point to the path to install your specific IDE driver.
    These drivers may not have a DMA check box in the user interface of the harddisk/cdroms device in device manager. They may have companion or other software to enabling you the UDMA mode for specific drives. Go to check for each drives and custom assign their UDMA mode.

    *** For Acer/ALI motherboard, they have a ALi IDE Driver Parameter Setup program for IDE driver ver3.56 using M5229.mpd. There you can see and set device transfer mode. Set there your hard disk to use Ultra DMA33 [Auto] at primary Channel device. Set your 52xcdrom to enable the PIO mode on and Ultra DMA33 or set it to [Auto]. Set also your cdrw to PIO mode on or to Auto but not UDMA mode. Unchecked the box for
        [ ] Enable Fast Boot.
        Click into the IDE Cache Control Center button.
        Select the drive button and Enable the DMA setting for both of your DiskDrives and cdroms.
        Checked the box for [x] Enable read-ahead for all drive.

(5) Check the cdroms speed.

(6) Install the cdrw writing programs. Make certain that these writing program would not read your 52xcdrom drive and protected within the detection list of auto-insertion of the blank new cdr/cdrw disks within this drive by the program. E.g. as you put blank new cdr/cdrw disk to the cdrw drive, it will pop up the program to format your disk/read the disk content. You should exclude the 52xcdrom from the detection list as you have 2 cdroms drives in the computer. You may need to check the options within the program or go to click the cdrom icon in the My computer. If the writing program having such function, it may have a new tab [Device] in the properties. Checked the box for exclude [x] Exclude from programs. Click [Apply] and restart the computer.

Let me know if you've any queries.      pslh
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Well I've done alot and have ended up hust now to the reinstallation of my ali hd controllers.  I got them back and installed again version 3.56.  But the utility you talked about seem it was going to be my answer but it won't install.  It errors out to say it will only work with version 1543C mb controller chip.  Mine is 1543b.  Boy that sucks.
Is there any other way we can manipulate this driver since the chip is one letter too old?
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, reading through your 3600 pages of registry, a drive SEAGATE_STT8000N which is now without any drive letter assignment. Is that drive exist or is it a removable one? There is a device using the same drive letter F as your HPcD-writter 8100 (drive F).
Try to check in the safe mode, any drives including hard disks (fixed/removable) and cdroms. Assign different drive letter for each of them.

Have you added a line in the config.sys as following:-


Moreover, please go to the registry and expand the following keyname with all its value and data on the right pane.


Then Press Alt-Print Screen to capture the current registry window and paste it on a doc file and send to my email.

RonadoAuthor Commented:
No other drives are using that same letter but I assigned them anyway.  The seagate you meantioned is my Tape drive for back-up and it has no letter assignment.  It runs throguh a scuzzie card and is completely seaparate for my other drives.  Ok going to make  a print screen.  Oh yes I run LASTDRIVE=M  in my config.sys.  Ok just sent you the picture.   12:36 pm est
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
<<but i'm sure you have a viewer for a bmp>> Thank Ron! :)   Received.  pslh
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Hey pslh I found an area in the registry that lists some problem items and my cdrom is listed in there 4 times.  So are alot of other of my items too.  i'll shoot you off a bmp of it..
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, <<I got them back and installed again version 3.56.  But the utility you talked about seem it was going to be my answer but it won't install.  It errors out to say it will only work with version 1543C mb controller chip.>> Perhaps you go back to download the version 3.55 an earlier one and unzip it remaining its file folder. There is a folder named "other" that is actually the same utility but dated Nov23'99. See if that fits your 1543b mb.  



As I studied the installation of the driver and utility of M5229: -
The driver in default will add following lines to the registry (simply stated but not all).


Here it supports

Where UltraDMASupported,1,0,0,0,0 = "UltraDMASupported"=hex:00,00,00,00
Where DMASupported,1,0,0,0,0 = "DMASupported"=hex:00,00,00,00
Where Mode,1,0,0,0,0 = "Mode"=hex:00,00,00,00

Mode is the transfer mode of IDE controller. Mode,1,n,n,n,n
where n,n,n,n=the 1st (n) =Primary channel device 0,
              the 2nd (n) =Primary channel device 1,
              the 3rd (n) =Secondary channel device 0,
              the 4th (n) =Secondary channel device 1
when n=0, means transfer mode of the captioned device is set to be "AUTO" detect
     n=1, means transfer mode of the captioned device is set to be "PIO" mode
     n=2, means transfer mode of the captioned device is set to be "DMA" mode
     n=3, means transfer mode of the captioned device is set to be "Ultra DMA" mode
     ff , means disable

Within the driver, there are also some hidden functions

User can use the utility designed by Acer/ALI to select all these options according to their Pc environment in a more user-friendly state.


Default in previous sent registry and your captured screen of registry.bmp: -



The transfer mode all (4) devices in the IDE controllers is now set in AUTO detect.

The DMA Supported status:
   1st (02)=Primary channel device 0 (C:Seagate ST36530A) = be "DMA" mode
   2nd (02) =Primary channel device 1 (D:WDC AC36 400L) = be "DMA" mode
   3rd (02) =Secondary channel device 0 (E:KENWOOD_CD-ROM_UCR-412) = be "DMA" mode
   4th (01) =Secondary channel device 1 (F:HPcD-writter 8100) = be "PIO" mode

The UltraDMA Supported status:
   1st (02)=Primary channel device 0 (C:Seagate ST36530A) = be "DMA" mode
   2nd (02) =Primary channel device 1 (D:WDC AC36 400L) = be "DMA" mode
   3rd (ff) =Secondary channel device 0 (E:KENWOOD_CD-ROM_UCR-412) = be disabled/NA
   4th (ff) =Secondary channel device 1 (F:HPcD-writter 8100) = be disabled/NA

"DrvSetTiming"=hex:00 = unchecked
"ForceCdromDma"=hex:00 = unchecked
"ForceUltraDma"=hex:00 = unchecked
"ForceCdromUltra"=hex:00 = unchecked


Thus, I would like to suggest changing the registry (if without using the ALi utility program - Use attached folder of the driver others\ideutil.exe in version 3.55 or Util\ideutil.exe in version 3.56 to set transfer mode and other options concerning the DMA and cache or Fast boot functions).

(1)  Enabling the 3rd number to be "02"
         From "UltraDMASupported"=hex:02,02,ff,ff
         To   "UltraDMASupported"=hex:02,02,02,ff

(2)  Setting the transfer mode of each device from Auto detect to maximum transfer rate.
         From "Mode"=hex:00,00,00,00
         To   "Mode"=hex:03,03,03,02

     If some errors occur after ALi bus master driver is installed,
     the user can disable DMA feature of CDROM/Disk. If the error
     condition still exists, run setup.exe to remove ALi bus master
     Use attached others\ideutil.exe to set transfer mode to PIO mode.

         From "Mode"=hex:00,00,00,00
         To   "Mode"=hex:03,03,03,01  

     or  To   "Mode"=hex:02,02,02,01

(3)  You may also add new binary value "FastBoot" under the keyname to disable the fast boot.

             Name                  Data
        hex  UltraDMASupported     02 02 ff ff
        hex  ModeNo                0a 0a 0a 0a
        hex  FastBoot              00

     If Fast Boot option is enabled, IDE driver will reduce boot up device checking time.  Thus speed up boot procedure.  Disable this option if device appears to be inaccessible or not found.
        FastBoot=00 = disabled
        FastBoot=01 = enabled

REMARK: If you have met problems after changing the modes figures in the registry.
        Restart the computer to safe mode.
        All IDE controllers transfer mode will be disable by the DOWN mode function.
        There you can open the registry again and recover to its original "00" status so that they can be auto-detected for the next normal bootup of your computer.


Let me know if you have any queries.    pslh
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, forgot to make a view picture from your registry for comprehension per my suggestions as the previous comment: -

             Name                  Data
        [ab] (Default)             (value not set)
        hex  ChipRevision          20
        hex  DMASupported          02 02 02 01
        hex  DrvSetTiming          00
        hex  ForceCdromDma         00
        hex  ForceCdromUltra       00
        hex  ForceUltraDma         00
        hex  Mode                  03 03 03 02
        hex  ModeInfo              01,01,00,00
        hex  ModeNo                0a 0a 0a 0a
        hex  UltraDMASupported     02 02 02 ff
        hex  FastBoot              00

Remark, if FastBoot function is disabled, the first time when you click My Computer, the seektime to initialize all devices would be much longer from 1 min-10 min causing mouse frozen or inactivity, you may need to pay a lot of tolerance (also reminded by ALi). Once initialized, it will be fast for further access. After you've confirmed all settings are the right one, you may enable it again by setting "FastBoot=01" to speed up the boot timing.

Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
See, Patttt!!!, Shouldn't it look like this....Ohh Yeah.   Refreshed.
        hex  ModeInfo              01 01 00 00
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:

<<Hey pslh I found an area in the registry that lists some problem items and my cdrom is listed in there 4 times.  So are alot of other of my items too.  i'll shoot you off a bmp of it..>> Received the problem.bmp.

It listed the following key having many devices.

Within the keyname Control\ASD, it has a list for detection.
      "Problem"="Starting a device"
      ASD = Automatic Skip Driver Agent test. It is to test the starting of a device. The result of respective list will be showing in the ASD\Prob\{CF2524C0-29AE-11CF-97EA-00AA0034319D}.

      The result of detection the data value in the ASD\Prob
           Data= "01" = having starting problem
           Data= '00" = no starting problem has been detected.


I listed out some of them (actually a very long list) for other experts studying too. There is no duplicates of devices and all listed as "oo" - That is no starting problem of a device be detected.

















Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, if there is any device getting starting problem and got a value data "01". This device will be showing in the msinfo32 (start-run-msinfo32)- System Information-Components-Problem Devices.        pslh
RonadoAuthor Commented:
CRAP- this thing knocked out my 2 comments again.

Anyway I sent youu my INF file from the controller driver 3.53 as the 3.54, 3.55. and 3.56 don't work with this chicp.  I guess, yes the standard driver do but the dma don't work with the cdrom.  I hope you can give me some help on this,  I was a "LITTLE" straigtned with the stuff you decribed for me.  then i looked at this inf file.

I tried taking out the newer drivers and putting in this older version 3.53 and It made a bigger improvment than before!!!  The dma boxes won't checkmark but i am still getting some dma.   The cd that was running at 2X speed, is now running at 21X speed!!  This is at 14% of cpu usuage.  That's better than the 15X I had on the MS controller drivers!  We're making a very large improvement.  I feel we are just abt there.

Oh yeah, on the 3.56 driver, when i'd change the
m559.mpd  the setting would just no right back to normal after reboot!

Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ronado, send me your IDE driver v353.exe. and also capture again following registry as yr Kenwood is now 21X 14%CPU usage.


ALi is only the chipset manufacturer.
Pls tell me the motherboard manufacturer and its model.          
RonadoAuthor Commented:
The motherboard is a Amptron 726MRT.  I have used alot of this boards in bilding for others and everyone has been happy.  Including me until this problem cropped up.   Ali is the ONLY manufacturer
of this model.  They use the SIS chipset in others but not in this one.  I can read the brand name right off the top of the chipset.  Will go and send you that info.

Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ron, received your driver ALi v3.53 and newly captured registry screen on ALi\M5229 after installed the driver v3.53. Briefly studied. It is a specially designed driver which is quite close to the ESDI_506.pdr and a bit different from that of v.3.50, 3.55 and 3.56.  Will post more on this ASAP.   pslh
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Roando, please send me again (email: your registry per these four keynames: -
(1) HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Enum\MF        
(4) HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Class\hdc

Your driver 3.53 should also have made some different amendments that I would like to have a better perspective. Thanks!  pslh
RonadoAuthor Commented:
ok, will go take a capture or 4...
Ronando, I just had the same problem with my ALI chipset motherboard.  Here's what I did to fix the problem (I am running Windows ME, so I'm not sure how relevant this will be):

1) Bring up the drive properties and check the DMA box
2) Click OK - at this point, you will return to Device Manager and the OS will not prompt you to reboot
3) Bring up the drive properties a second time and check the DMA box
4) Click OK (again) - this time, the OS will ask if you want to reboot.  Answer "YES".
5) After the reboot, the DMA box should be checked.  At least, that's the way it worked for me.  I can't pretend to know why this happens, but it's not the first time I've had this problem with this motherboard.  It happens in all flavors of Win9X.

Good Luck!

RonadoAuthor Commented:
we've been through this a long time. pslh just abt has me set up.  What you say dave  has been tried a long time ago.
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ron, Though this comment might not be contained all my ideas after studying the v3.53 driver, I need to post this up as today I've found some heart problem that I'm not sure what happens tomorrow. I hope this can be in assistance to you. Remaining might rely on your test and trial effort if I could not answer you these 2 days. Following research result are only pslh's own personal opinion. It does not represent ALi/other OEM MB manufacturer including Amptron/PC chips.

ALi has several versions of IDE driver. 3.40, 3.50 for win95/98. It contains installation of 2 files - M5229.mpd, Idevsd.vxd with Alihdd.inf.  There is no setup utility for Add/remove and also no separate IDE utility for configuration DMA modes nor cache settings.  

Then it develops several improvements versions for their OEM motherboard manufacturers. e.g. version 3.51, 3.52, 3.53, 3.54. Not all of them are applicable to the others if OEM MB manufacturer are different nor higher number in version number do imply for a better one for upgrade. E.g Asus use only ver 3.51 for some ALi chipset MB.

For version V3.53 as I've found it only fits for Amptron/PC chips M726MRT MB(with ALi chipset).  
  1. Add configurable cache setting module.  A setup utility is provided.
  2. Fix V3.51/V3.52 bug that fail to use Nero burning ROM.
  3. Solved compatibility issue with Seagate TR5 tape.

For ver3.55 and ver3.56, it contains installation of the driver M5229.mpd and 2 ide vxd files (idevsd.vxd and idevsd0.vxd ) and one alivxd.vxd file which is the ALi IDE Cache Controller driver. ver3.56 contains one more file for uninstall the driver (uninstide.exe).

Ver3.55 or ver3.56 might not be the most suitable ones for your motherboard (M1543b) as they only support ALi M1543C, M1535, M1535D and future new chip.

However, it is interesting to study the driver v3.53 as it also contains the cache setting and setup utility for uninstallation. It also contains similar functions in ver 3.55/3.56 in DMA controller driver which is much better than ver 3.40 or 3.50. However, it still lack a user-friendly configuration utility that may need some manual adjustment to the registry if there is different Pc environment and deemed necessary. Some of the key value/binary value that I'm still not so certain. Therefore I may try my best to suggest some here for trial and error pilot test.

(1) As you've uninstalled the ver 3.56 from your system, you may need to check by "Find" and remove away these driver from windows system directories so as to avoid their interferences.
    idevsd.vxd and idevsd0.vxd  

    click the properties to check (make certain that is not v3.53)

(2) Change the settings in the registry as: -

    Default in previous sent registry and your captured screen of registry.bmp: -
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ALi\ALiVxd] - not appeared to be installed in driver v3.53

    Changed to enable all devices in DMA supporting mode of following keys.

name                       data
[binary] Dma-0-0           01
[binary] Dma-0-1           01
[binary] Dma-1-0           00            ---> change to 01
[binary] Dma-1-1           00            ---> change to 01
[binary] DMASupported      02 02 02 ff   ---> change to 02 02 02 02
[binary] DrvSetTiming      00
[binary] ForceCdromDma     00
[binary] ForceCdromUltra   00
[binary] ForceUltraDma     00
[binary] Mode              02 02 02 01
[binary] ModeNo            0a 0a 0a 0a
[binary] UltraDMASupported 02 ff ff ff   ---> change to 02 02 02 02

DMACurrentlyUsed           00          ---> change to 01
DMACurrentlyUsed           00          ---> change to 01
DMACurrentlyUsed           01          ---> remain the same
DMACurrentlyUsed           01          ---> remain the same

DeviceDesc      "ALi Primary IDE controller (bus master)"
Driver          "hdc\001"

DeviceDesc      "ALi Secondary IDE controller (bus master)"
Driver          "hdc\002"

no value

DeviceDesc      "ALi Bus Master PCI to IDE Controller"
InfPath         "ALIHDD.INF"

DeviceDesc      "ALi Primary IDE controller (bus master)"
PortDriver       "M5229.mpd"

DeviceDesc      "ALi Secondary IDE controller (bus master)"
IDEDMADRIVE1     00                 ----> change to 01
PortDriver       "M5229.mpd"

If you uninstall the ALi driver v3.53 and select the win98 driver
InfPath for Primary IDE controller (dual fifo) is "MSHDC.INF" for PortDriver "ESDI_506.pdr"

This driver is only listed in registry hdc\003, 004, 005, 006 but not in use for all your drives.

>>>> Remark:
Above amendment is for enabling all functions for 4 drives in DMA mode.
If succeed to recover the DMA for kenwood in full speed, you may disable DMA selectively for HP writer if you've found some problems in cdrw writing.

You need to amend the registry all for once before reboot the machine.
You may need to restart the computer 3 times for successful registry changes.
Sometimes you may try to do it in either safe mode or in normal mode.
Before adjusting the DMA functions for both primary and secondary IDE channel, you may need to uninstall any cdrw writing software or programs.

I'll need a rest. See you!   pslh
RonadoAuthor Commented:
pslh-hope your tests went good for are my results?

I booted over 150 times total last night and today! Sometimes edit, then to safe mode boot, sometimes normal boot, sometimes edit then half safe mode half normal....In all the trys only ONCE
did the edit work right, but only on the CDRW!  One time I had the cdrw working properly but the keenwood not.  So I kept re-editting and retrying to reboot oever and over again...I have never been able to get either one of the cdroms to work since.  My HD's are very hot so I think this is a good time to stop and rest.  I think you have all the right idea's but for some reason they just won't take.  And what was even more wierd was the one time the cdrw took and stayed that way till I re-editted then rebooted several times more.
What does this leave us?  It seems to WANT to work but ir just doesn't.  I was thinking...mebe since it's running around 21X that mebe it's beeing held back by the top speed of the cdrw which is 24x..???  I'm getting ready to dissconnect
the cdrw and see if the kenwood tops out..Make a LITTLE sense doesn't it??  Better wait and hour or so till the drives cool...

RonadoAuthor Commented:
well that didn't work either...disconnected cdrw physically, and took out of bios and deleted the cdrom's driver.  still the same speed on the kenwood...
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:

I just ran following test on my machine :
Insert the Win98SE(upgrade version) CD in the cdrom and point at the setup and run within win98Se existing system.

After completion, all my desktop settings (programs and IE settings) is not much changed except the cable modem need to reinstall the driver and Smartdrive program in protecting the hard disk need to reinstall.

The motherboard IDE driver (both primary and secondary) is replaced by C:\windows\system\IOSUBSYS\ESDI_506.pdr and C:\windows\system\VMM32\IOS.vxd
The DMA boxes in the device manager are recovered and all are checked for all drives (harddisk,DVD/cdrom and cdrw).

Try to run cdspeed test (*) using the Win98SE cdrom which provide more than 60/70 length for full speed test on "data". Both cdroms are ran in full speed.

Remark: in the prehistory of this machine, eventhough without reloading the win98se and using the default mb driver (DMA boxes are missed) but all cdroms have been running in full speed if carry out above test (*).

You may try to run the test (*) as above mentioned. Or unload the mb driver and using the ESDI_506.pdr. If still no succeed, try to reload win98se on top as I've just recommend in the comment.

After 150 times restart windows, you may need a rest. Sometimes, accumulated depression will influence one's decision. Our characters are much alike. After 2 days rest, my heart tension has been much released.

Hmm....  Good hints to your computer. Hope that yours and its tension will be released as well ASAP.    ;0)

RonadoAuthor Commented:
I don't understand your first paragraph.  Put my w98se cdrom in and do what?   Install over top?
I have tried installing overtop through windows but when I do I screw everything up because I have so many updates from microsofts updater that the win 98 cd puts back in the old stuff and then alot of programs begin to fail do to the old drivers for them being installed over the new ones
I already have.  Last time I did that I had a hell of a time and had to go back and format and put back on my windows from my back tape.  Your setup must not have alot of new updates from microsoft in order to go through the install overtop without coming thorugh it unscathed.   Mebe there's a swicth that could be used to get windows NOT to overwrite newer files.   If so I don't know of it....10-4 (oh i hate that) on the depression!  I've had my cover off the computer for so long I forget what it looks like with it all together!  This'll be my last computer with 33/mb
drives.  My new one I been working on will be ata 66/mb..but wouldn't you know it they have just come out with ata 100/mb!?!!@#!^$#.....It's hard to keep up!  You sound much better healthwise.  I take my rests with my wife over the weekends.  The computer hardly gets touched then. That's the rules for our two days of rest!

PS-how do I put back on windows own microsoft driver you are talking abt that worked so good for you? This one (ESDI_506.pdr) ....And why do you think the driver i'm using failed to rewrite in the registry so bad?

RonadoAuthor Commented:
also forgot to meantion PSLH---how can I remove this new 3.53 driver when there is no uninstall program?  And there is nothing in the add/remove either?
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
(1)  My first paragraph of last comment is telling you that I have run a trial test to reload win98se by overtop. The original system contained a lot of third parties programs and including the updated drivers of display card, IDE drivers and others as well. The IE is 5.01 without service pack 1 but dated Nov'1999 and contained the last downloading from WindowUpdate since Apr25, 2000. I knew that you're quite aware of how to reload the win98se but to keep all its update files/drivers etc. I did this experiment was to make certain how much influences on such a procedure.

The IE5.01 and all its downloadings of Apr25,2000 are being kept. I ran the test yesterday 3:20 EST and inspected all contra criteria to review the aftermath or changes. I'm now use this machine to talk with you.

Reviewed the files modified and created after reloading overtop the Window98 OS will change the productid but not the productkey in the first loading. It will redetect the hardwares during the second loading and any other plug and play devices. Therefore, it will search the drivers containing in either win98cdrom and the path of C:\windows\INF. If it detected with corresponding drivers in win98cdrom, it will be used. If it detected but cannot read the drivers (e.g if the driver is in the C:\windows\INF\others ), there will be a setup error. In my case is the cable modem's driver (as expected prior to the beginning of the test). However, just skip it and reboot the machine and continue the setup. It will proceed to finish the process.

Reloading win98se overtop will not replace files that are not in the list of windows's setup dat. Unless those common or shares files that some programs files are being used (Microsoft office 97/98 are keys for incompatible problems as they have different design in the common share files architecture from that of win98/win98se but there isn't any problems for MsOffice 2000). There may be also such a problem if some third parties programs are being used the same windows common files/shares directory but in older dates e.g winfax etc. In my machine, winfax ver9.0 might be the next one but still no special negative effect. Adobe/Lotus/Hp scanner/winzip/Laplink/bank programs/account programs/DVD programs/DVDram programs have kept all in well status.

In the windowsupdate, some updates patches said to be not installed. However, in the system those are either in directory "C:\Windows Update Setup Files" or in the system itself. Therefore, it concludes only the history record is amended that cannot be recognised by the WindowsUpdate engine. At the beginning of this year (Feb/April'2000), the windowsupdate site has made some adjustments of the update process. Previously in win98 or in the year 1999, update will directly install and replace the system files. However, in 2000, the update process will download a cab file of the update patch and stored in the directory "C:\windows Update Setup Files". Then it updates the system files. Such a purpose, the user can extract the files in the cab of the update patch and replace the system files in later dates without  repeating the online update process again.

During reloading win98se OS overtop, the directory of "C:\Windows Update Setup Files" has not been affected. Thus, if you suspected any windows system files has been replaced by older version, you can extract the cab or run the iesetup.exe (newer version after the date of Apr'1999) in the directory "C:\Windows Update Setup Files".

e.g dated Nov05'99,
open the C:\Windows Update Setup Files\filelist.dat by notepad will review the data of the corresponding cab files name and version number.

Remark: if you've met problem in hardware, just reinstall the driver. If you've met problem in running software, it is much better to reinstall it other than to recover to use the backup copies of operating system. Some of these problematic softwares may contain older versions or bugs causing you other problems which you might not be awared of. One of the most easily infected are the dynamic active directory system of windows98SE. If once the active directory changed from dynamic status to static status, problem may come out.

Ron, it sounds to me that your system may still have some problem in the mechanism of active directory.  

(2) I paste the readme file of ver 3.53, here it stated as: -

  Run setup.exe to install/uninstall ALi bus master IDE driver.
  The setup utility detects the OS version and installs the
  suitable driver automatically.

Thus, you may try to run it again to see if that can be uninstall. Otherwise, we have to manually uninstall it.  


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RonadoAuthor Commented:
I sneaked off to the computer room here at 12:05 am just to see if you answered my questions.  You see what my problem is I cannot reinstall my programs for windows ,[as I meantioned before], the old cdroms and programs are  gone.  I have given away most programs to my family and others lost, sold or whatever.  I'm sorta stuck in this situation if I want to keep all the programs I am presently useing and I DO!  I have alot of programs on this puter, around 50 at least!  All are used and backed up in tapes.  So I felt confident when everything was running good to pass on my programs to others in the family and friends.

Anyway, how can I try the microsoft drivers.  Like the one you meantioned ?  The edi_506.pdr i think you said.   Change that by going into the controller update area and pick out "generic driver"???  Is that the microsoft one?   I don't know which name in the controller update area that microsoft uses.   I thought at one time I have tried everyone in there, when you click on the radio button to "show all drivers"...So I must have tried it at one time or another, but please remind me of the name they use in there for it.  

I got "ALL" the ALI drivers friday and took out the old and put in th all of them individually!  One would give me 21X as I now have and others would drop my drive to 2X, some would kick it back up around 12X.  The one i'm running right now is 3.30....None of them will let me edit the registry and have it stay that way.  I just can't figure out why this is?   I had that one driver 3.53
work just that once on editing the registry and stay that way.  But it worked only for the the cdrw and not for the kenwood.  Why do you suppose that happened.  Why do think the registry acts that way.  I did everything step by step as you asked me to sooo many times.  It "IS" very depressing!  

As I stated in the first paragrapgh  abt loading overtop the old win98se.  I DID replace new files with old.  I had no way I getting around it but to reformat, and use the backup tapes.  I was very frustrated, nerveouse and worried I lost all.  Thank GOD for tape back-ups!  I had no way of fixing it.  It errored out  running just about anything.  And I looked around the sys files and suuch and most were changed.  Which led me to belive, "how many others I didn't know about."  I got a situation here and getting tired "and other too" trying to get this to work properly.  So I either stick with the 21X that still is jerky and slow for fast avi use or just give up till I get my other computer built, OR, "by some miricle" get this thing fixed!   You had all the right idea's, but the registry system don't want to accept it, and I just can't understand why that is.  I checked for remnets of old drivers like you meantioned each time I change to a differnt driver.  So I know That the system isn't crossing over to a driver from  another source.

Please just tell me abt the microsoft driver name used in the update area so I can try one more time before giving up.  I have talked to alot of others running this same MB with the same drivers ion the newsgroups that are getting thier 52X first time installed and can't understand why I cannot.  This is even more frustating!
RonadoAuthor Commented:
PS what is the "ACTIVE DIRECTORY", and where is it. what can be done if a problem, can anything be done?
RonadoAuthor Commented:
PS2-My last paragraph was "I have talked to alot of others running this same MOTHERBORAD with the same Kenwood unit in the newsgroups and they cannot understand why I am having a problem....sorry i make alot of typo's!!!  I type fast but do alot of misstaks!!
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Comment accepted as answer
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Your the only one that stuck by me thru all of this so i'm giving you all the points.  I guess youu finnally gave up.  Me too.  but at least we accoplished many things and gave me a better answer for alot of other questions!  At least now I have 21X instead of 2X.  I DO have an improvment!
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ron, I have never gave up till I got my goal as I am an Aries.

At the last stage we did make some improvement to 21x. That has already eliminated a lot of suspecting possibilities. I have not taken any test to reconfirm the steps/recommendations per your last request as you knew recently my heart was being run out of control.

This weekend I hope to send you another one. You may try if you're free.  

Thank your grading.   ;p)      Patricia SL Ho.
RonadoAuthor Commented:
Yes, will try anything, well just about...
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Hi, Ron! Yesterday I've just received an email from ALI that they're interested to duplicate your problem and find the cause. How is your current status?       pslh
RonadoAuthor Commented:
I gave up on it....I finished rebuilding my new super puter and put in a scsi Kenwood True X 52X with an ultra wide controller and have 52 speed on the nose!  This is my first experiense with scsi but I LIKE IT!  I am running two 10.2 gig ata/66 drives on my promise ata/66 controller.  I am getting scsi speeds on the drives.  They fly!  Put in a PIII 600 o/ced to 700mhz.  Everything is fine but i had to start from scracth....I thought i had 50 programs on the old machine.  I had exactly 274 programs.  I now have just around 12 as i lost everything on the hd's from the old puter.  I had run out of irq's on this one so I used USB ports and now I can get evrything to run great.  This will probably be MY last computer.  I need to start buying software all over again tho...Thanks for your help but I will strip what I want out of the old computer and individually sell the extra pheriferials...

I got a fresh start on things!!!!  

Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
Ron, nice to hear your new computer is up and running. <<This will probably be MY last computer. >> Two years later, you are certain that you'll have another. Virtual screen projected on a paper-like monitor frames with 2 poles. CPU and chipset with the ?G hard disks is not much bigger than a mobile phone or a watch. <g>    

I'll your stories about current status to ALI support team.     ;)      pslh
Patricia Siu-Lai HoCommented:
To all the experts listed as followings.

Thank you for all the participants within this thread from the start date Feb 26 '2000 to the date of July 19' 2000. It needs great endurance to close this thread.

In order to thank to all for your help contributed in this thread. I posted separate share point questions for each of you.

pslh received 3600 experts points = shared amongst with the other 13 experts.
each would received 260 experts points.  

February 26 2000 - June 17 2000 - July 19 2000
14 experts


I hope that each of you in your profile can be linked with this question for your own record of contributions which has been given.

Please accept my goodwill too.    Thanks in advance!

The point questions will be posted within Windows98 topic area on Aug 23' 2000.

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