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NT SBS 4.5 TCP/IP problem

Posted on 2000-03-07
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Last Modified: 2013-12-23
We have recently installed an NT SBS 4.5 server (SP4) at a customer site. The server is a PIII 500 with 256MB RAM. All LAN drivers, etc are up to date and there are no physical problems with the LAN. The IP Addressing scheme is 192.168.1.x and the problem is TCPIP performance is dreadful. Starting a server based app on a client PC takes minutes instead of seconds during which time there is no LAN traffic or apparent activity on either the client or the server. We tried using IPX instead of TCPIP and performance improved massively but we have to use TCPIP instead of IPX due to other systems/applications. We have heard that changing the IP address scheme from the default 10.0.0.x can lead to this problem with NT SBS server but can't find anything to prove this.
Any ideas anyone?
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Question by:andrewbrazier
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by:Tim Holman
ID: 2590886
Can you post up IPCONFIG /ALL and ROUTE PRINT from both client and server ?
Also, a TRACERT will help.
Is there a router in between client and server ?
I think what may be happening is that IP traffic is being routed to the wrong place.
Once the application is up and running, does performance improve ?
It could be name resolution - does the app work OK with IP address instead of hostname ?
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by:meverest
ID: 2591043
does the server have any other protocols installed? (ipx, netbeiu etc)?

if so, remove them all to check if that gives you any improvement.

i would not expect addressing scheme to make any difference at all.

cheers.
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Expert Comment

by:Itbeme
ID: 2592081
How many users on the network?  Is the wiring CAT 5 and was the wiring verified at 100 base?  What type of hubs or switches are you utilizing?  Are you using LMHOST file?  Are you getting or noticed colisions on the network?  I agree with meverest, there should be no problem with the addressing scheme.
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by:TooKoolKris
ID: 2593068
Do you have WINS installed?
Does this problem happen with other apps. or just this one?
Just for the record "I Hate SBS", had to get that out sorry.
Do you have 10mbs and 100mbs mixed in the wrong places?
Do you have a sniffer or know how to use Network Monitor to see what may be going on out there?
Any errors at all in the Event Logs?
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by:andrewbrazier
ID: 2595383
I will try and get IPCONFIG and TRACERT output ASAP. The server and clients are all local, no routers and the only protocol on the LAN is TCPIP (we did use IPX as a test but took it off again). There are 7 users on the LAN and all the cabling is CAT5 and has been tested for 100Mbit. The hub is a D-Link 10/100 autosensing (yuck) but we have tried it with a dumb 10 Mbit hub and get the same thing (only slower). We aren't using LMHOSTS and have tried an HP Analyser which shows no bad things happening. There are no errors in the Event Viewer.
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by:andyalder
ID: 2595675
TKK> Just for the record "I Hate SBS".
Me too :(

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q194/5/62.ASP describes the full process of changing SBS's IP address scheme.

Is the performance of attaching to shares and copying files with just tcp/ip bad or is it just specific IP based applications?

maybe the client is trying to resolve the server name via DNS and so dialing up the Internet initially and after failing getting it from WINS instead (like Outlook sometimes does). This gives slow start to the specific application but after starting it runs at normal speed.

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by:andrewbrazier
ID: 2595699
Attaching to shares, copying stuff from the server, etc is no problem as is starting Outlook 2000 and logging into Exchange. The slow bit is starting an app installed on the server (Pegasus Accounts software and a couple of other things). When this is done, you double-click the icon and then there is a 2 - 3 minute delay during which there is no LAN traffic, no extra server disk activity, no extra PC activity and then all of a sudden there it is. After you have logged into the app, performance is still poor.
DNS and dialling the Internet isn't an issue as we are aware of this problem and have ensured it doesn't happen.
We don't really want to change the IP addressing as there are other systems we have no control over that use the same scheme.
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by:andyalder
ID: 2595859
Does look like a name resolution problem. Try creating a HOSTS, (not LMHOSTS as shares connect fine), on the client with the IP address and name of the server.
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by:andrewbrazier
ID: 2602474
I tried adding a HOSTS file to a client PC, no improvement. Listed below are the output from the command line commands. The server has just started throwing up all sorts of Exchange related errors in the Event Viewer (unable to service POP / IMAP / NNTP clients, etc). I think I will uninstall TCPIP, reinstall and SP6a the thing, seems to me as if TCPIP is pretty badly gubbed so perhaps remove and reinstall will fix. Any comments?


IPCONFIG /ALL

Windows NT IP Configuration
Host Name . . . . . . . . . : jgross01.jgross.co.uk
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . : 195.38.64.9
Node Type . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
NetBIOS Scope ID. . . . . . :
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . : Yes
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . : No
NetBIOS Resolution Uses DNS : No

Ethernet adapter SMC12116:
Description . . . . . . . . : NDIS 4.0 driver                                  
Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-E0-29-4C-73-78
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.252
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . : 192.168.1.254
Primary WINS Server . . . . : 192.168.1.252

Ethernet adapter NdisWan5:
Description . . . . . . . . : NdisWan Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . :

Ethernet adapter NdisWan4:
Description . . . . . . . . : NdisWan Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . :



ROUTE PRINT

===========================================================================
Interface List
0x1 ........................... MS TCP Loopback interface
0x2 ...00 e0 29 4c 73 78 ...... NDIS 4.0 driver                                                                  
0x3 ...00 00 00 00 00 00 ...... NdisWan Adapter
0x4 ...00 00 00 00 00 00 ...... NdisWan Adapter
===========================================================================
===========================================================================
Active Routes:
Network Destination        Netmask          Gateway       Interface  Metric
          0.0.0.0          0.0.0.0    192.168.1.254   192.168.1.252        1
        127.0.0.0        255.0.0.0        127.0.0.1       127.0.0.1        1
      192.168.1.0    255.255.255.0    192.168.1.252   192.168.1.252        1
    192.168.1.252  255.255.255.255        127.0.0.1       127.0.0.1        1
    192.168.1.255  255.255.255.255    192.168.1.252   192.168.1.252        1
        224.0.0.0        224.0.0.0    192.168.1.252r NdisWan4:

Description . . . . . . . . : NdisWan Adapter

Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00

DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

IP Address. . . . . .



TRACERT
Tracing route to JGROSS01 [192.168.1.252]

over a maximum of 30 hops:



  1   <10 ms   <10 ms   <10 ms  JGROSS01 [192.168.1.252]



Trace complete.

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Housenet earned 200 total points
ID: 2603332
- Dude you cant just not use the 10.0.0.2 255.255.255.0 address. There is definatly a procedure for using a different address, I did a quick check on the KB and didnt find it. I have used it before..It may be in the install notes.
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Expert Comment

by:Tim Holman
ID: 2603876
Presumably this output is from your server ?
Some things - where is 192.168.1.254 ?
This is where traffic not bound for the local network would be going.
Speaking of which, are ALL clients on the SAME subnet ?

Where is your DNS server 195.38.64.9 ?

All traffic bound for your DNS service will not be found on the local network and will be directed through your default gateway.

DNS requests can take a relatively long time.

Is your application being accessed by IP address or hostname ?

Do you use a Proxy server ?

You have IP forwarding enabled on your server - this is not a good idea as you have 2 dialup adapters installed too.

You may find the dial-up connections are trying to open ?

It will do no harm to remove and reinstall TCP/IP - could be a good idea, but unless it's configured properly, it won't be much good.

Have you checked your bindings ?

In particular, check NetBT isn't bound to one of the dial-up adapters.

In fact, if you disable IP forwarding and remove the 2 dial-up adapters, you may have a better idea about what's going on.
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by:andrewbrazier
ID: 2604262
Problem solved! I have just found a Technet document that says which Service Packs are safe for SBS 4.5 and SP6a is OK. Applied this and all problems disappeared! Server based apps load and run much faster and everything looks good.
BTW housenet, you're right there is a document about changing the IP address on SBS, it's Q194562. See andyalder's post above (and don't call me "dude"!)
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by:andyalder
ID: 2604356
Presumably it was SP4 that broke Exchange? (PSS id: Q214864)
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by:andrewbrazier
ID: 2604463
Guess so, yesterday they started getting errors about Exchange in the event viewer like:

Accept clients on POP3 interface failed
Accept clients on IMAP4 interface failed

which Technet says is an SP4 problem so apply latest SP which seems to have fixed everything (so far!). Don't you just love NT service packs?
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by:andyalder
ID: 2604511
Yeah, I do love Nt servicepacks, they keep me in a job!

The odd numbered service pack rule (NT3.51 sp1, sp3 and sp5 were good) sp2 and sp4 were useless was a good rule until NT4sp5 came out. Still the exception proves the rule as 6a (I'd call that an odd number) seems pretty stable.
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