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Win 98 and Network Neighborhood

Posted on 2000-04-13
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I just can't get two computers to communicate!

I bought a hub to set up a network at home.  Both machines run Win98 SE.  Both have been setup to access the internet through a (cable) network - so I know that's not the problem.  Hardware seems to be fine for the same reason - it works to connect to the internet through a cable modem.

I need to share resources between the machines.  To do it though the cable company means securing a new IP address at an additional monthly cost.  Since I don't need to do this too often, that seems unnecessary.

I edited the Client For Microsoft Network settings per the instructions.  I created a new workgroup and gave each machine a name.  When I clicked on the whole network icon I got an error message stating that I could not browse the network.

I eventually created a user login for each machine.  That brought up the whole network, but did not display the other computer on the system - only itself.

I have followed four different sets of instructions, as well as Microsoft's help, and I cannot figure out why there is no communication.

First the obvious - yes I do have Client for MS Network in the Network tab in control panel.  Yes I do have a net card installed on both machines.  Yes they both have identical setting (TCP etc.)  Yes I did enable file sharing on both machines in Explorer.

 I tried the NT Domain thing.  I have tried everything that MS suggest in their trouble shooter.

Both machines have identical settings and do the identical thing.

Any suggestions?

One article I followed said that it was easy - about 1 hour from hardware start to software finish.  I have about 6 hours in this and that is software only.  his should be easy - RIGHT?

Perhaps I could set the machines up with one as a server and one a client, and that way keep the server hooked up to the cable modem - something I cannot do with a peer-to-peer network.  Is that possible?  Only one machine needs access to the internet, the other is file storage and perhaps printing.  Would Linux do the trick?, and is it simple to use, and fairly compact as an operating system?
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Question by:russoffl
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by:burntout
ID: 2710985
I just set up a network at home too, I had the same exact problem... I didn't have a hub though, I just ran a cable from one PC to the other I guess this doesn't work, I had to cut the cable and cross some wires and then it worked great.... since you have a hub maybe it is not working properly.  My network adapters have a couple of LED's on them 10/LINK/ACT and 100/LINK/ACT, when I had the prob neither of them were lit up.  as soon as I plugged the correct cable in one lit up, so if yours has the LEDs and they are all OFF my guess would be that the problem is the actual cable connection is not setup right...   but for the record I only have about a month of exp with networks so i am no expert, just thought I would try.
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by:reden
ID: 2711093
Your LAN cards comes with a diagnostic tool that will let you check the LAN cards and if it is connected to the HUB with the correct cable, you could also check it if the signal can go from your PC to the HUB
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bartsmit earned 30 total points
ID: 2711109
How many network cards are in the machine that is connected to the cable modem? Do you use the SE Internet sharing option?

The machine with the Internet connection needs two distinct IP addresses; one for the internal network and one for the Internet. You can set up two addresses on the same card through editing the registry as per Q156772 in the kb:
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q156/7/72.asp?LNG=ENG&SA=TECH&FR=1

The internal addresses should be in the IANA reserved range, e.g. 192.168.1.x

Make sure that the network applet identification tabs are set to the same workgroup and different machine names, e.g. enterprise, kirk and spock (respectively).

Create a LMHOSTS file in your windows folder on both machines with these contents:
192.168.1.1   kirk #PRE
192.168.1.2   spock #PRE
assuming those are the IP addresses.

Check that you can ping each machine from the other by name.

Internet sharing may stop this from working, uninstall it and see if you can browse the Network Neigbourhood. If so, try a 3rd party proxy such as wingate or any other from http://winfiles.cnet.com/apps/98/servers-proxy.html
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by:burntout
ID: 2711112
I got my lan cards for $3 each on ebay....
I don't think they even wanted to pay for the floppy that the drivers came on, let alone diagnostic tools...  I guess thats what I get for being so cheap. :)
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by:Molson
ID: 2711822
What protocols are you using....
Do you have the IP addresses correct.
You will need a NIC for your cable conection and a NIC for your internal network. So you need 2 cards in the internet host machine.Try installing netbeui also so the 2 machines can talk to each other. Also IE4 has some bugs that wuill do that sort of thing.
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by:gecko27
ID: 2711874
Try opening your network properties and making sure that you have NetBEUI installed.  If it doesn't show up in the list, click Add > Protocol > Microsoft > NetBEUI.  Highlight NetBEUI for your network card and click properties.  Click the bindings tab and make sure that NetBEUI has a check in the box.  Click ok till the network properties window is closed.  Restart your computer.  

If you look in the network neighborhood, it may take as much as 15 minutes (usually less though) for the other computers to show after you restart your system.  You can use the start button and click find > computer and then type the name of the other computer to see if it is working correctly.  

Another thing to try if this doesn't quite get it, is to go to the start button > log off, and log off the current user.  Sometimes the network settings hang up for a particular user even thru a reboot.  

Good luck
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by:russoffl
ID: 2713619
I haven't yet had a chance to explore these solutions.

I am trying to set up WinGate to do this since it is an off the shelf package.  Unfortunately their instant "less than an hour" installation is in hour 4 and it still is not working properly.

What I can say is that I don't believe this to be a hardware problem.  The hub has a port for the "main" cable that includes a "null" switch.  Also, with the hub connected to the cable modem I can connect one or the other machine to the internet, without any problem.  That should indicate that both network cards, all three cables, and the hub all work fine.

The problem comes in when I try either set up a peer-to-peer network.  This is without access to the internet.  I could settle for that so that I can transfer files.  But even with identical TCI settings, and the same workgroup in the identification tab, but different usernames, they won't talk to each other.  I did have to set the machine up so that I would need to login at boot up, - basically that was the only way that it would allow me to "browse" the whole network in network neighbourhood.  Once browsing I would see that machines name, but not the one it is connected to, or supposed to be connected to.

So it seems that while both machines are setup, something is not setup that will allow them to communicate.

As I said I have tried everything in both troubleshooting sections in win98.

YOu would think with all MS's money this would in fact be as easy as they claim.



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by:russoffl
ID: 2713628
gecko27

I will try your solution next - trying one final installation of WinGate first.
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by:russoffl
ID: 2713703
Well Molson is right as far as connecting a home network to the internet.  This from the FAQ at WinGate for anyone else who is trying to do this:

"Q.How do I connect WinGate through a Cable Modem?
A.When connecting the WinGate machine to the Internet through a Cable Modem, you first need to be sure to have two Network Interface Card’s (NIC’s) installed in that computer. One connected directly to your Cable Mode and the other connected directly to your internal network. You should not try connecting the Cable Modem directly to your network hub. Then configure the Cable Modem NIC per your ISP’s instructions, so you can browse and successfully access the Internet from that machine. Install TCP/IP on the internal NIC. Configure it per the instructions in the WinGate documentation. Be sure not to change the DNS or Gateway settings in this NIC’s configuration, only assign a static IP address and subnet mask. The rest of the WinGate configuration will be the same as if you were connecting to the Internet through a standard modem. You will not need to configure a dialer."

So for the moment (until a get another card - this is a pain since I am working off laptops - NIC aren't $15 a piece!) I will simply try to connect the two on a "local" network without an internet connection.
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by:bartsmit
ID: 2713736
Did you try adding the second IP address to the NIC as per the kb article?
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by:russoffl
ID: 2713994
--bartsmit

I gave up on the WinGate.  I did add the netbeui and instantl (after reboot) I had a connection.  Works just the way I need it to - one machine has internet access, and both machines can read each others files/drives.

I will look at the kb article shortly.

Only problem that I have is that I cannot access mail from my ISP, but that could be because I am logged on as a "user", while I set the mail up simply logged on.  Or perhaps there is a conflict.
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by:russoffl
ID: 2714275
Good answer, and I am willing to give you points for it.  It did get computers communicating, but since I am ultimately trying to set up a net where I have both internet access and network access.  The netbuei did that, but by using Internet sharing I may be able to get both computers sharing the connection.

I'll post a question for you for the points.

Thanks

Russ
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by:russoffl
ID: 2714288
bartsmit

I've done what you suggested.  I install ed the netsharing as per the wizards (on both server and client).  Also edited the registery although that seemed to make no difference since it was working before (internet connection on server) just the same way that it did after.

Since I did that before  running the sharing wizard do you think it rewrote the settingd.

The only problem I have now is that the client cannot access the internet.

Should I still be trying to connect through a proxy from the client machine?

Any suggestions.  
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by:postpress
ID: 2714799
You need two NICs. One for Internet traffic, one for private traffic. Till then, get a mac or something that can juggle complicated stuff like TCP/IP
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by:russoffl
ID: 2714843
Yeah, but then there'd be so little software to use.

I did get the network working the way that I initially wanted it to - that is a server that connects to the internet, and file sharing between the server and client.

I'm not sure why I can still share between the server and client while connected to the cable modem since everything I have seen seems to indicate that you need 2 nic for that too.

Anyway, I've spent enough time on this.  Perhaps get another NIC one of these days.  SOmeone should develope a way to do the same via modems - a modem to modem network since I have a couple of those unused.

Thanks to all for the help.  Can't say that I am walking away more knowledgable, but at least I can share files.
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by:russoffl
ID: 2714846
THanks
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by:alsmola
ID: 5639606
The way i got to computers to both run off the internet and see each other on network neighborhood was to make sure both are subnet masks were the same (not configurable by cable modem service) and have a central hub and a nic in each machine. Then, I had to have both TCP/IP protocols and NetBEUI protocols installed on both network setups.











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