rcloyd
asked on
Motherboard change out
I have a compaq presario 4505. It came with a pentium 166mmx. I have since upgraded the processor to 233mmx which is the fastest processor the motherboard can handle. Compaq tells me my motherboard is actually a daughterboard? Is there a motherboard i could buy and install in my 4505 that would allow me to upgrade the processor say to 400mhz or so? Thanks in advance for any help.
rcloyd
rcloyd
If it's a daughterboard then it's probably proprietary and you should be asking Compaq this question. Assuming the case is a standard AT or ATX case there's no reason why you couldn't drop *any* motherboard in there, but this is not a trivial job.
I think the only thing that can help you is an upgrade from Evergreen or Powerleap or Kingston. However you must compare these to the price of getting a standard case/motherboard/CPU/memor
Cheapest possibly upgrade to 400Mhz would be around...
ATX Case $30
32mb DIMM $30 (64mb $60)
Socket super 7 Motherboard $50
AMD K6-3 CPU and fan 400Mhz $70
total around $180
possibly you would need a new graphics card if the one you have is integrated, another $30 for a basic 4mb 3d/2d card.
total around $210
Celeron slot 1 or socket 370 for around $40 more on the above.
You may need a modem and soundcard too if these are built in. :-(
You should be able to use your drives, your monitor, your keyboard and your mouse and any cards and devices you have added to the system.
I went to look at the sites of the upgrade processor manufacturers and your model of computer is not generically compatible with upgrade processors unfortunately. (All the 400Mhz versions use the K6). Evergreen have a patch that may work, but it will be a bit of a scotch tape and krazy glue fix.
Best thing I can suggest is this from www.netseller.com in their specials category.....
"""15 Pr333+MMX BareBones w/Video, 56K Modem, Sound, +32Meg Ram $176.86
AMD K6 II450 for $23 more or
AMD K6 500 for $29 more
http://www.netseller.com/bb300.htm"""
I'd take the 500Mhz model for a total of $205.86 plus shipping and taxes. Now that's a good deal, the 400Mhz upgrade processors you could buy would cost around that, and you get 100Mhz extra and 8mb 3D graphics as well (presuming you don't have that at the moment)
regards,
Road Warrior
Cheapest possibly upgrade to 400Mhz would be around...
ATX Case $30
32mb DIMM $30 (64mb $60)
Socket super 7 Motherboard $50
AMD K6-3 CPU and fan 400Mhz $70
total around $180
possibly you would need a new graphics card if the one you have is integrated, another $30 for a basic 4mb 3d/2d card.
total around $210
Celeron slot 1 or socket 370 for around $40 more on the above.
You may need a modem and soundcard too if these are built in. :-(
You should be able to use your drives, your monitor, your keyboard and your mouse and any cards and devices you have added to the system.
I went to look at the sites of the upgrade processor manufacturers and your model of computer is not generically compatible with upgrade processors unfortunately. (All the 400Mhz versions use the K6). Evergreen have a patch that may work, but it will be a bit of a scotch tape and krazy glue fix.
Best thing I can suggest is this from www.netseller.com in their specials category.....
"""15 Pr333+MMX BareBones w/Video, 56K Modem, Sound, +32Meg Ram $176.86
AMD K6 II450 for $23 more or
AMD K6 500 for $29 more
http://www.netseller.com/bb300.htm"""
I'd take the 500Mhz model for a total of $205.86 plus shipping and taxes. Now that's a good deal, the 400Mhz upgrade processors you could buy would cost around that, and you get 100Mhz extra and 8mb 3D graphics as well (presuming you don't have that at the moment)
regards,
Road Warrior
Oh, their RAM is cheap there too, they probably won't charge you more than about $30 per extra 32mb you want in that.
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crloyd.
Just to clear your apparent confusion over the bit about the term 'daughterboard': This is a board that typically contains the CPU and/or memory and it goes is a special slot in the motherboard which is where all the rest of the components are located. The idea is that when new processor types are developed the user can simply take out the old daughterboard and replace it with a new one which takes the new processor types. Sounds great, doesn't it? In reality, I don't think a single manufacturer has ever ever actually made a next processor generation daughterboard to go in older machines using this scheme. They'd sell a lot less whole new machines if they ever got in the habit of doing this.
Using the daughterboard attached to a motherboard is a STRONG indicator that your case has a proprietary footprint, meaning that no, you can't just get a new standardized one and slap it in there. This is the penalty for buying Compaq, Gateway, Packard Bell, Hewlett Packard, Etc, Etc, Etc... basically any machine that has a large brand name on it that you can buy in a showroom. Regardless of what the sales staff tell you, no one will ever be able to upgrade these to next generation chips without just buying a whole new box and all its associated parts.
You were actually VERY lucky to be able to do a seamless upgrade from 166 to 233, IMHO.
As pkjnibbs points out, you can always try asking Compaq if there is a next generation daughterboard, but be prepared to have them snickering over having caught another unsuspecting consumer with their daughterboard upgrade scheme.
Please take roadwarrior's advice and get yourself a standardized system, which will be upgradeable in the future. Upgrades will be less expensive and probably higher quality. As a bonus, you'll learn a little something about how the innards of your computer fit together. As someone who is brave enough to swap processors, the leap to building a new system from parts will be no problem for you.
regards,
magarity
Just to clear your apparent confusion over the bit about the term 'daughterboard': This is a board that typically contains the CPU and/or memory and it goes is a special slot in the motherboard which is where all the rest of the components are located. The idea is that when new processor types are developed the user can simply take out the old daughterboard and replace it with a new one which takes the new processor types. Sounds great, doesn't it? In reality, I don't think a single manufacturer has ever ever actually made a next processor generation daughterboard to go in older machines using this scheme. They'd sell a lot less whole new machines if they ever got in the habit of doing this.
Using the daughterboard attached to a motherboard is a STRONG indicator that your case has a proprietary footprint, meaning that no, you can't just get a new standardized one and slap it in there. This is the penalty for buying Compaq, Gateway, Packard Bell, Hewlett Packard, Etc, Etc, Etc... basically any machine that has a large brand name on it that you can buy in a showroom. Regardless of what the sales staff tell you, no one will ever be able to upgrade these to next generation chips without just buying a whole new box and all its associated parts.
You were actually VERY lucky to be able to do a seamless upgrade from 166 to 233, IMHO.
As pkjnibbs points out, you can always try asking Compaq if there is a next generation daughterboard, but be prepared to have them snickering over having caught another unsuspecting consumer with their daughterboard upgrade scheme.
Please take roadwarrior's advice and get yourself a standardized system, which will be upgradeable in the future. Upgrades will be less expensive and probably higher quality. As a bonus, you'll learn a little something about how the innards of your computer fit together. As someone who is brave enough to swap processors, the leap to building a new system from parts will be no problem for you.
regards,
magarity
ASKER
My motherboard does not sound like a daughterboard after hearing magarity's comments. Roadwarrior, I have a VooDoo Banshee 16meg PCI card and an external 3com modem. Do you have another suggestion for a motherboard/CPU upgrade possibly with onboard sound that will fit in my existing case?
Thanks,
rcloyd
Thanks,
rcloyd
Go with Netseller.
Better deal and better system than old Compaq. You can customize with only what you need, too.
Better deal and better system than old Compaq. You can customize with only what you need, too.
Just a comment on your desire to stay with your old case. Cases (and attendant power supplies) are not very expensive. Getting another case would allow you to take advantage of ATX, which is both a motherboard design and a type of power supply (and the case that holds them). ATX boards/cases are much easier to work on. You don't skin nearly as many knuckles trying to get to RAM, for example. Also, ATX power supplies do neat things like shut off when you shut down Win 98 (that will save the energy of pushing the "off" button :-)).
Before anyone can recommend something to fit in your old case, they'd have to know what the configuration of the case is. Likely candidates are AT or Baby AT. It is also likely that the case may actually be proprietary and not fit either of the standards (or ATX, either). What this means is, if you should buy a motherboard and keep the case, the holes in the motherboard that allow it to mount to the case may be in the wrong places, and when you try to insert a card in a PCI slot, for example, the card won't be aligned with the opening in the back of the case.
In addition, although power supplies are pretty good guys, they don't last forever. Also, the manufacturer's don't give you more than you pay for, so you could have a lower rated power supply (less than 200 watts) than would be best for modern, faster systems. Or the specs of the 5v, 12v, etc. portions aren't tight enough for really fast processors (K7 is really persnickety).
All-in-all, you would do very well to scrap the case and power supply. Get a good one that is easy to get into and work on, get an extra case fan to keep heat down with higher speed, higher powered components, and fit it to standardized components. If you stick with ATX, you'll probably be good for many years since it's pretty well stuck as a standard (not only is it easier to work on, it's a lot cheaper to manufacture, so everybody won).
Better to get too much power supply than too little. If you anticipate going to the arena above about 600MHz in the next 5 years, plan on 300 watts. That gives you some growth room for that CD-RW, tape drive, SCSI hard disk, LS-120, etc., etc. :-)
Take care.
Before anyone can recommend something to fit in your old case, they'd have to know what the configuration of the case is. Likely candidates are AT or Baby AT. It is also likely that the case may actually be proprietary and not fit either of the standards (or ATX, either). What this means is, if you should buy a motherboard and keep the case, the holes in the motherboard that allow it to mount to the case may be in the wrong places, and when you try to insert a card in a PCI slot, for example, the card won't be aligned with the opening in the back of the case.
In addition, although power supplies are pretty good guys, they don't last forever. Also, the manufacturer's don't give you more than you pay for, so you could have a lower rated power supply (less than 200 watts) than would be best for modern, faster systems. Or the specs of the 5v, 12v, etc. portions aren't tight enough for really fast processors (K7 is really persnickety).
All-in-all, you would do very well to scrap the case and power supply. Get a good one that is easy to get into and work on, get an extra case fan to keep heat down with higher speed, higher powered components, and fit it to standardized components. If you stick with ATX, you'll probably be good for many years since it's pretty well stuck as a standard (not only is it easier to work on, it's a lot cheaper to manufacture, so everybody won).
Better to get too much power supply than too little. If you anticipate going to the arena above about 600MHz in the next 5 years, plan on 300 watts. That gives you some growth room for that CD-RW, tape drive, SCSI hard disk, LS-120, etc., etc. :-)
Take care.
Well if you read closely the above comments (which are mostly true) then you will see that instead of upgrading your old Compaq, what you are doing is buying a new computer minus a few componets that should be upgraded too (if not already) like the HD? the memory? most newer MB that run 100mhz bus requires the faster PC100 memory (plus yours probably is SIMMs and the new MB will need DIMM's)
So that said, your best bet is to keep your old computer as a spare, give it to a child as a first computer, or even donate to a needy family and buy the new faster system (or build it)
Unfortunetly most of the parts in your older computer will not work very well in the newer system and is really not worth the hassle, the newer HD's are faster, the memory is faster, and if you use the older parts then you lose some of the gain of the faster CPU
So that said, your best bet is to keep your old computer as a spare, give it to a child as a first computer, or even donate to a needy family and buy the new faster system (or build it)
Unfortunetly most of the parts in your older computer will not work very well in the newer system and is really not worth the hassle, the newer HD's are faster, the memory is faster, and if you use the older parts then you lose some of the gain of the faster CPU
Eeeeek!
Just discovered the motherboard in the above deal doesn't have many expansion slots, just 2xPCI and 1xISA, Since there is the sound and modem on board this may not be a problem for you. (About all most people will want to put in these days apart from those is a Lan card and maybe a SCSII card) I can't find a better deal that is available from one place without graphics, unfortunately I can't find details of how to disable the graphics on this board.
Theoretically one can get all the bits to a similar spec of the above for a better price, but since you'd have to pay shipping from 3 or 4 different locations, it would end up being rather more.
here are 2 more good places to shop for the parts though,
www.compgeeks.com
www.pcliquidator.com
one could put quite a nice socket 370 or slot1 celeron system together with the parts they have at compgeeks, but this would cost a bit more, this board they have looks like a good starting point for an intel based system...
http://www.compgeeks.com/cgi-bin/details.asp?cat=Mboards&sku=205-1409
Again it has onboard graphics, I am more confident about their ability to be disabled on this board though, compgeeks is fast to reply to tech enquiries though and you should check with them. I pointed out this board out of all the others they have because it has the newer intel 810 chipset, supports up to 600Mhz cpu's at the moment (may take the newer ones up to 800 with upcoming bios upgrades, don't rely on it though) and you can put either a 370 or slot 1 proc in it, which gives you a wider range for shopping for a good price on a CPU either now or in the future when you upgrade.
PCliquidator has some good priced "e-machine" computers, but you may not like the cyrix processors in them (MII 300-333) and they would be better off with an AMD chip. Maybe they have a deal for this upgrade. (Note though that if these are brand new Cyrix chips from VIA, and not old stock they are probably very conscious of former quality problems and might be expected to be producing better chips than previously)
regards,
Road Warrior
Just discovered the motherboard in the above deal doesn't have many expansion slots, just 2xPCI and 1xISA, Since there is the sound and modem on board this may not be a problem for you. (About all most people will want to put in these days apart from those is a Lan card and maybe a SCSII card) I can't find a better deal that is available from one place without graphics, unfortunately I can't find details of how to disable the graphics on this board.
Theoretically one can get all the bits to a similar spec of the above for a better price, but since you'd have to pay shipping from 3 or 4 different locations, it would end up being rather more.
here are 2 more good places to shop for the parts though,
www.compgeeks.com
www.pcliquidator.com
one could put quite a nice socket 370 or slot1 celeron system together with the parts they have at compgeeks, but this would cost a bit more, this board they have looks like a good starting point for an intel based system...
http://www.compgeeks.com/cgi-bin/details.asp?cat=Mboards&sku=205-1409
Again it has onboard graphics, I am more confident about their ability to be disabled on this board though, compgeeks is fast to reply to tech enquiries though and you should check with them. I pointed out this board out of all the others they have because it has the newer intel 810 chipset, supports up to 600Mhz cpu's at the moment (may take the newer ones up to 800 with upcoming bios upgrades, don't rely on it though) and you can put either a 370 or slot 1 proc in it, which gives you a wider range for shopping for a good price on a CPU either now or in the future when you upgrade.
PCliquidator has some good priced "e-machine" computers, but you may not like the cyrix processors in them (MII 300-333) and they would be better off with an AMD chip. Maybe they have a deal for this upgrade. (Note though that if these are brand new Cyrix chips from VIA, and not old stock they are probably very conscious of former quality problems and might be expected to be producing better chips than previously)
regards,
Road Warrior