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Internet Network

Posted on 2000-04-23
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Last Modified: 2013-12-07
I have recently connected two computers to the internet using a hub and a cable modem.  How do I configure the networking on both computers so they  show up on the network.  I have an NT 4.0 and Win 95 machine and would like to share drives between them.  When I look at the network neighborhood on each machine, I see that machine, but not the other one that I have connected to the same hub.  Any Ideas??  
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Question by:halfback71
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15 Comments
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:deltree
ID: 2742761
Same domain/workgroup?
Unique machine names?
Can you ping the other system?
Do they both see the internet?
Checked/reseated cables?
The list goes on, but let us know what you've tried.
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LVL 40

Expert Comment

by:jlevie
ID: 2742789
You need to seriously think about what you are about to do. The way your network is set up, with no firewall between your local net and the Internet, anyone on the same cable modem network segment is going to be able to see your computers and shares also. You would be well advised to consider using on of the Internet Gateway packages and making one of the systems a firewalling gateway between the local network and the Internet. That would mean getting a second ethernet interface for one of the boxes and the software (WinGate, WinProxy, etc).
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LVL 37

Expert Comment

by:meverest
ID: 2743191
load netbeui and bind client to MS networks to that proptocol only (ie NOT to tcp/ip for reasons implied by jlevie)

if you don't share anything on the computers, they won't show up in network neighborhood and (often) you may get some kind of error message too.  so share something first to see if you can find them in network neighborhood.

cheers.
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Author Comment

by:halfback71
ID: 2744558
Both Machines connect to the internet fine and have different names.  I am using the same workgroup for both.  Right they are set up to use DHCP to obtain an IP address as specified by my provider.  Another strange thing is that my drives on my NT machine show up as shared, but the only thing that shows up in the network neighborhood on my NT machine is the printer.  
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dsazama earned 300 total points
ID: 2747515
I have the exact setup you do and after experimenting some I have found this to work the best.

Setup shares on your computers (they will not show up unless they both have sharing enabled).

Install NetBEUI on both computers in addition to TCP/IP (NetBEUI is not routable and will be MUCH faster than TCP/IP unless you are lucky enough to have both machines on the same subnet (Mine are not))

Install Black ICE or another personal firewall on both computers.

When you want to reach the other computer, disable the protection on that machine temporarily and then re-enable it when you are done.


This is the least expensive way to do what you need and both computers have unlimited access to the internet.

If you want to spend a little more time and money, your next solution would be to set up a firewall to act as a proxy server and use private internal IPs and NAT.  You can either buy a blackbox solution such as a broadband router/firewall or you can multihome a machine such as NT or Linux to do this for you.

Only problem with this solution is if you want to do the exact same thing with both computers using the same ports and connected to the same server it will not work! (ie playing quake with a friend on an internet server) because the proxy uses the ip address and port requested to figure out who to send the response to.

I hope this helped a little
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Expert Comment

by:meverest
ID: 2747646
i dont think you need firewalls and stuff if all you want to do is to access internet with client software.

install netbeui on all stations (it is not routable as stated - correct) and use this for your local file and print sharing.  make sure that client for MS networks is bound ONLY to netbeui - look at the ip protocol properties, and uncheck the relevent bindings.

this will provide you with full file & print sharing and provide enough protection for your local stations.

so long as you don't run tcp/ip server software, you will be as safe as you need to be from IP attacks.

cheers.
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LVL 40

Expert Comment

by:jlevie
ID: 2749003
It isn't a matter of whether the TCP/IP or Netbui is routable. It's the fact some number of other systems on that cable modem segment will be in the same broadcast domain. Any system in the same broadcast domain will be able to see any shares that are being offered from his systems. The only way to prevent others on the cable modem segment from being able to reach his shares is to install a firewall.
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Expert Comment

by:meverest
ID: 2749430
wonderful things, cable modems ;-o
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LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:dsazama
ID: 2749493
Just to make the point clear about the reason I mentioned NetBEUI...

I have previously (without NetBEUI) tried copying an ISO file (650MB) from one machine to another and it stated something like 171 minutes for transfer.

This is because the packets were being routed to the cable modem provider's router before being sent back to me.

Once I installed NetBEUI the file took 7 minutes flat.

NetBEUI is simply for small network performance in this situation
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LVL 40

Expert Comment

by:jlevie
ID: 2750073
That sounds like a network config problem. If you had two systems and a cable modem connected via a hub and the data was being routed through the cable modem, then you have something wrong in the local configurations. Both local systems should have been in the same network, and should have known to talk directly to each other.

Besides that has nothing to do with network security.
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LVL 56

Expert Comment

by:andyalder
ID: 2752426
Maybe they have been assigned addresses on diffrent subnets by the ISP's DHCP server, then they would not see each others broadcasts. Use ipconfig/winipcfg to find out.

jlevi, would it be safe to use ipx/spx internally or do all frame types get through cable modems?
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LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:dsazama
ID: 2752462
jlevie, you are missing my point entirely and it has nothing to do with the question.

If you look at my original answer it states that he can either use something like Black ICE on each machine (which I use) or he can spend alot more time and money setting up a firewall.

The NetBEUI item was simply to point out that having two machines on one cable modem can be slow since sometimes they are on different subnets, as andyadler just mentioned.  NetBEUI is PROVEN to be up to 7 times faster than TCP/IP and is also faster than IPX.

Also, since it is NOT routable he does not have to worry about those packets going across his cable modem.

This was simply some additional help I was offering.

So stop getting on me for something you know nothing about.

Jeeze!
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LVL 40

Expert Comment

by:jlevie
ID: 2752510
I don't know, my suspicion is that they would as I don't believe that they implement routing features. I suppose you'd have to set up a system with ipx/spx and hang a network sniffer on another cable modem that's on the same network segment. If you can see the sap advertisements, then you could connect to the other boxes shares.

I don't believe that the DHCP would configure the boxes to be on separate routed networks, but it might have done something funny with the routes.
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LVL 40

Expert Comment

by:jlevie
ID: 2752552
dsazama,

I wasn't "getting on you" at all. And I do know what I'm talking about. A cable modem (or DSL box for that matter) generally  isn't a router, it's more like a transceiver. If it were a router the Netbios over TCP/IP traffic would never traverse the cable network to the segment router and back. And it's easy to prove. Simply hang a network sniffer on a cable modem and watch the brodcast traffic (broadcasts aren't routable either).

I believe my point about the local network being vulnerable is still valid with Black Ice installed as you have to disable it to talk between the two systems. It can only protect the systems when it's running and then you can't share data between the two systems.
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LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:dsazama
ID: 2752703
jlevie,

I am sure you have a lot of experience with routing and cable modems, but not all providers do the same thing.  I too know what I am talking about and I get a little hot under the collar when ANYONE tells me that I don't know what I am talking about (quote: "then you have something wrong in the local configurations").

Not only were my computers on different subnets, they did not even have the same subnet mask!

Additionally, I have been using Sniffer Pro from Network Associates for a few years now and have looked at my local network for several hours doing other things and have never seen broadcast traffic coming from outside of my network (and yes I was in promiscuous mode).

All I am saying is that I DO know what I am talking about and that since halfback71 is even ASKING about how to protect himself I doubt he currently wants to go through all of the steps, time, and cost necessary to put a firewall up on his local network.

The simplest solution is a personal firewall such as Black ICE.

By the way, Black ICE will allow you to set up trusted addresses so as long as the DHCP assigned address does not change very often (which it normally does not) then this would be the simplest solution.

Thanks for listening
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