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HSP modem (UK) - speed

Posted on 2000-04-24
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Last Modified: 2013-12-27
I have a HSP56 Micromodem connected through a 56k supporting line (Demon Internet) but only get 28.8K connection speed. Tried messing with the 'only connect at' setting but no joy. It's on COM 4 & only COM 1 is listed in my ports (so I don't know how to alter the port settings).
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Question by:shedlord
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by:Otta
ID: 2746258
Does your modem support 'X2' and/or 'V.90' and/or 'K56Flex' ?

Does your ISP support 'X2' and/or 'V.90' and/or 'K56Flex' ?

Your modem and your ISP have to use the same "flavour" of '56000-bits-per-second' speed, if you want to use 'faster-than-28800' speeds.
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by:Ken_Way
ID: 2748769
I have the same modem as you, and I am only getting 26400. The problem is more than likely tha speed of your telephone line. They vary a lot although BT will not admit this. It may be worth ringing them and asking them to increase the gain on your line.
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by:MnNCOMM
ID: 2748865
28.8 may be all you can connect at.  You can try increasing the port speeds from the default 9600 Windows setting and get a little more flowing, but not much really. Win-Modems do rely on software driven drivers and windows resources will affect performance, but it may not be that. If your modem is working correctly, and you have tried different strings as you said, and you also stated "I have never been able to connect higher then 28.8"

Depending on the digital to analog conversions that the phone company uses, it is these type of conversions that restrict PC Data lines.

There are "basicaly" 2 different types of conversions they use. UNIVERSAL & INTERGRATED. This is the way they have a single fiber cable running to a system (Vault) and then split off using PC Cards in a rack that then return the digital signal to analog. Then from the "Vault" the fiber is now copper running to your house. This eliminates copper runs to the central office. Also does other things I am not going to get into.

Anyways, One of the conversions has TWO A/D conversions, and the other one may only have ONE A/D conversion. Oviously the one that only has ONE conversion will allow you to connect from 26.4 to 46.6 (On Average) the one that has TWO conversions will only allow a max connection of 28.8 (Usually 24 to 26400 with 28.8 being max)

It may not be the modem or the drivers. You also cannot rule out neighbors across the street connecting higher or lower because they mat be on a different A/D conversion. I have 4 lines in my house, and 2 are on Universal, and two are on Intergrated. It was waht was available, and what was picked at the time of installation.

The phone Company repair line MAY or may not disclose this to you when you call for a line test. But try and ask. Or find a phone man in the street close by your house and ask them.

Another thing may be where your calling into. Just because the access number "SAYs" your calling that city, it may be a number call forwarded to yet another city or state and THATS where the equipment is. ISPs are not going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to install equipment in every single small town city across the US.

Make sure you are in fact calling the access number for 56K. Try calling a different number. Maybe in another city or even another STATE. (Remember long distance charges may apply)

Let me know how things turn out
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by:shedlord
ID: 2749331
To Ken Way: Is it a X2, V90 or K56Flex modem. Thanks.
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by:shedlord
ID: 2749417
I found out from British Telecom why my modem is so slow. It's summed up by the following letter -

"if you surf the net, install a second line at half price," runs the BT
promotion. But if there are no spare circuits in your street, BT will
"DAX" your line, which involves fitting a box that squeezes two lines
onto one pair of wires by using two carrier frequencies.

However, my BT engineer was honest enough to tell me that DAX supports
modem speeds only up to 14·4 kilobits per second (kbps) on either line.
Some surfing!

I cancelled the second line. Other modem users, take note."

Thanks for the answers anyway, will keep note for future reference.
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MnNCOMM earned 30 total points
ID: 2749448
Yea the boxes they use are like DMLs we use here. Same principle as far as conversions, except they only work for one line and split it into two pairs (For a second line or second customer)Instead of 500 customers or more. It is cheaper for them to slap a converter box then it is to pay 30,000 for a line crew to come in and lay in new cable and telco poles(or bury in the ground)

One thing you have to be careful of, is that depending on the technoligy they use there, it may get power from the line, or power from a battery that charges on the line. When the batterry is charging, or is low in power, a hummm can be heard. Unfortunatly dispite what the TELCO company says it USUALY does not come up on a normal test on the line. So if you hear it, tell them and insist someone comes out to inspect it.

So I guess that it answered your question, glad to be of help.
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by:Otta
ID: 2749760
> it may be a number call forwarded to yet another city or state and THATS where the equipment is.

However, this "forwarding" is done after the A-to-D conversion, so the presence/absence of "forwarding" is immaterial.
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by:MnNCOMM
ID: 2749846
>>>>>However, this "forwarding" is done after the A-to-D conversion, so the presence/absence of "forwarding" is immaterial.<<<<<<<<<<

Not always true, depends on the trunking system as well as the switching system at the TELCO. It may go through fiber, it may go thru satalite, it may go through microwave.

One never knows how the call will be routed at any given time

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by:shedlord
ID: 2751973
I rang up to ask them to change it to a standard line today. They said they don't do that. Seems fishy to me. Apparently my modem being slowed down isn't a concern for them because lines are only guaranteed for voice connections. They said they'd increase the gain on the line, but will that make any difference given that the line is split?
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by:MnNCOMM
ID: 2752051
Depends on the conversion they use.

What they are doing is, they are using one pair of copper to go to a DML unit. This unit will take a 100% digital signal (No dial tone on the line) and convert it using a High frequency for one line and a low frequency for the other 2nd line or maybe a 2nd customer.
Only after the conversion (After the DML will dial tone be present. Just so you know some DMLs are used for up to six lines with new technoligy that I have seen.

This is an analog to digital conversion. Depending on the conversion they use, and the central office equipment there may be a SECOND A/D conversion done in the Central Office. The DML unit that is most likely going to be mounted on your outside wall or pole is controlled by another unit that is in the C.O. Depending on which units they use it is likely that you will not be able to connect higher then 28.8. But who knows what equipment they are using these days.

Sorry, but your basically S.O.L.
I know it is not what you want to hear, but it is the only way. Unless you move, or there is more need on your block for just ONE customer, they are not going to spend thousands of dolaars for more copper or fiber to be brought in, till there is a demand for it or they are doing recon work for your area.

Chances are using a DML, you will NOT be eligable for an ISDN/ADSL?T-Line or fast access line. These DMLs do not have the bandwidth needed for such an application. Maybe in the future they will come up with an alternative, who knows when they will upgrade your area?

I mean after all, where I lived in Mississippi a while back it was only last year I heard the TELCO company paid more then 700,000 or so JUST for the "software upgrade" that we can have "Caller ID" in our homes.

Is wireless available in your area maybe? Or maybe if you got more people in your area to make a stink, they will see the demand and the need for upgrading your area.

Life sucks when you have no say doesn't it?
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by:MnNCOMM
ID: 2752059
BTW.. Most TELCO companies actually only gaurentee 9600 and FEW may say 14.4

This is mainly for fax machines. But the internet is always growing, so I am sure in the near future some alternative will be available for fast PC Acess lines in your area real soon.
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by:Otta
ID: 2752309
>>>However, this "forwarding" is done after the A-to-D conversion, so the presence/absence of "forwarding" is immaterial.

> Not always true, depends on the trunking system as well as the switching system at the TELCO.

You're incorrect.
All the "forwarding" is electronically, not mechanically, controlled.

> It may go through fiber,

Digitally, not analogue.

> it may go thru satalite,

Digitally, not analogue.

> it may go through microwave.

Digitally, not analogue.

> One never knows how the call will be routed at any given time

True, but one always knows that the "forwarding" will be done _AFTER_ the A-to-D conversion.
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by:MnNCOMM
ID: 2752669
Ya know it never stops to amaze me how a person loves to spend there time critisizing another. You can never say something here without another person saying ther 2 cents and trying to make you look bad or just to say something for the purpose of excercising there fingers at the keyboard.  Now don't get me wrong....I apreciate some input time to time when I might be in error about something, but when I am NOT then it is a total waste of time for me.

First off the term (Call Forwarding) IS done electronically (and for the most part AFTER the A/D conversion). (we agree on that at least).

In HIS case it may NOT be so

He has to go through a DML which will convert his analog signal (his house to the pole) to a digital signal (After the DML) to the CO where the other half of the DML is converting it back to an analog signal so it can go to the system in the CO. On older systems the DML is a totally seperate entity and does not "Usually" intergrate with the CO's system. It is it's own system (Now watch someone not see the word OLDER or USUALLY and try to correct me again saying it NEVER happens this way)


Anyways......

After he goes through the DML A/D the call has been forwarded. It is NOT gaurenteed that there is no other A/D coversions as it may go through other C.O's (In & Out in few cases) and NOT directly to the next point or destination where the ISP equipment is. It goes through one of many ESS's (Electronic Switching Systems) or DSS's (Digital Swithing Systems) or it may go through some older relays and switches (Can't recall the name for that crappy swicthing system) that I have seen still in working order pending upgrades. Thus having a greater potential of having problems with speed in the interum.

Of course routes are mapped out electronically and for the most part they know where they are going to go almost before they are dialed, but it is the puter that controls at what time and where a call goes through, HOW it is to get there (Long route/short route determined at certain times,conditions,traffic & desired CO equipment it may have to go through to get there.

When you make a phone call from NY to CA is it ALWAYS the straightest line path? Is it ALWAYS done by satelite and not land? Does it ALWAYS take the shortest path and never get re-routed through a southern state that may have less traffic at that present time and then go to a satelite and back to land again a few times?  

Therefore Call forwarding to another location IS material in some case's unlike where YOU think it is not. Everyone uses this somewhere or another in smaller cities but it is usually designed not to be a "Problem waiting for a happening".

My point was, where he is calling, may not be where the equipment is, and through the transfers, call forwarding and A/D conversions along the way, it will have an effect on his speed/connection. But he allready determined he is using a DML like device, and that I have determined that was his first culprit of his problem.

Now unless we wanted to nit-pick and "dot my T's & cross My i's" I do not see the point of your comment directed at me?

I am sure Shedlord got the point and did not have to go though reading this mess between us. And that Forwarding IS material but not a problem "most" of the time.

When you have as many years expierience in the TELCO company as I have in the past before computers you can feel free to correct me again on the subject.
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Author Comment

by:shedlord
ID: 2752946
Sorry if I started a war here.

Incidentally, my phone wall socket box has 2 connectors. I'm told the person who lived here before me had a line for his modem and one for the phone. I'm clueless on these matters but could the 'splitting' be happening just within this box?
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by:MnNCOMM
ID: 2753003
NO

The split is done on the DML unit. then from there it has 2 pair drop comming to your house.

The DML units are very expensive and basically SUCK, so they try not to put it where you or anyone else has access to it. Usually on a pole, main junction box, sub basement cabinet or something.

Either way, there is no way around it. Automatically you have an extra A/D conversion via the DML unit before you even get to the CO. Then at the CO it converts it from D/A then to the TELCO equipment that converts it right back to digital again. Thats why they only say 14.4
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Expert Comment

by:rmoses1
ID: 2753377
hi.
you should try the following:
a. create a new dial up connection
b. go to the properties of the new one and to the configure - turn maximum speed to 57600. go to connection - port settings and move fifo to the lowest. go there to advanced and try one of this strings: atn0s37=14, atz, at&f.
if this doesnt help go to control pannel and in the network go to the dial up adapter - advanced - and turn the pocket size to small. (u might be asked for the cd of windows for that).

reuven
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by:MnNCOMM
ID: 2753389
Please remove your answer and make it a comment as the problem has been solved.

If you would have read the comments you would have known this

Besides, here on EE RMoses we post COMMENTS not answers so it does not close the question. Only if your 125% sure THAT is the fix do we post an answer directly.
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Author Comment

by:shedlord
ID: 2756124
Hold on a minute. After following the above and entering the atz string it now *reports* 57,600 - but a web speed test gives the actual speed as 24K. Mmmm? Is there a cast iron way of checking exactly what speed I'm really getting?
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Expert Comment

by:rmoses1
ID: 2756255
rmoses1 changed the proposed answer to a comment
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by:rmoses1
ID: 2756291
try - when u r connected - to go to start - run -type there: winipcfg - copy the ip adress and close the window. go to start - run - type: ping <ip adress> -t. ok.
you will get a dos window and lines. check the time part. if it is below 250 that's men that your connection is good.

check it and tell us what was the resolts.

reuven
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by:MnNCOMM
ID: 2756369
That is the DTE report speed NOT your CONNECT speed. The download speed test is what we are concerned with and will use as a valid speed test. You were allready told by the TELCO that max speed gaurenteed is 14.4.

Use a few different speed tests sites to make sure.

Use nothing less then a 1Meg test

http://computingcentral.msn.com/topics/bandwidth/speedtest.asp

http://www.datajett.com/modem.html

http://www.surftohere.com/bandwidth/


THIS ONE I LIKE BEST
http://speedtest.mybc.com/


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Author Comment

by:shedlord
ID: 2757504
OK, mainly got between 19 and 23K. Looks like I'm stuck with a crap connection unless I get an ISDN line (cable hasn't reached here yet! - BT seem quite eager to ISDN me, cos it would cost me a lot more).

Thanks for the answers. Do I need to close the thread somehow?
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by:Otta
ID: 2757651
>  entering the atz string it now *reports* 57,600 - but a web speed test gives the actual speed as 24K.

The "cast-iron" way of checking is to add one of the strings 'W1' or 'W2' or 'W3' as "extra" modem-initialization strings.

Then, your modem will report the modem-to-modem speed (24K???), rather than the modem-to-motherboard (57600) speed.

> Do I need to close the thread somehow?

Pick a comment from a "helpful" expert, and click the "accept this comment as the answer" button.
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Author Comment

by:shedlord
ID: 2758753
The moral of this tale is:
If you are in the UK, use your modem a lot and are thinking of moving to a new house or flat, first check with BT whether the phone line is DAXed!
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