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Can't Get Network to See DSL Router

Posted on 2000-05-06
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Hello! Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Our office has a small (7 computer) network system. TCP/IP, Win98, where the "server" computer is actually just the same kind of computer as the other 6, it's just that it has the Peachtree Accounting program the others read off of.
The Network Hub is a Kingston ETHERX 10Base-T Stackable type (KNE8TP/SE) which is located in the Mezzanine above the office and the cables go down through the walls to outlets near the computers and the computers are plugged in there.

We wanted to get a DSL line in to replace the dopey AOL/56K dial-up modem system we had before. They came in and did all the preliminary of getting the outside line set up and router set up next to the network hub upstairs and it was then up to me to get it hooked up to the hub and they would help with the protocol and stuff. I got the necessary crossover cable (I had mistakenly gotten a straight cable before which didn't work).
Anyway, I plugged one end of the cable into the router (in the #1 slot of the 4 Ethernet slots) and then looked over to the hub.  There are only two slots where I could plug into.  Stack IN or Stack OUT.  I put it into Stack IN (though, let me say, I also later tried it into Stack OUT to similar results).

Then I called the DSL tech support, I followed their instructions and put the necessary numbers into the places they told me to in the Network boxes in the TCP/IP properties, but couldn't get the DSL working.  The DSL company says that at their end they see the router connected and working, but somewhere through the network, it's just not getting through.  They said it's up to me to figure out the problem within the network, which isn't a big help.
At one point where I restarted the computer I believe there was an error message, which I was dumb and didn't write down, but said something to the effect of "Error 38: Protocol O currently being used...blah blah..." can't remember the rest.
Any ideas where I should look?  Is the Stack IN port the one I hook the router to?  Do I need to change something in the Network properties to get rid of any conflict?
Any advice would be a great help.  Thanks!
~Dave
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Question by:ASCORedHat
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by:jgarr
ID: 2784958
Try plugging a straight through cable into one of the ports that the PCs are connected to. Then see if one of the other PC s come up. (I suspect that you cannot connect stations to the stack ports ) Does the hub have link lights ? Do you see any activity on the lights?
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by:apadua
ID: 2785795
You have a router? Or are you using some type of router/hub combination?

Andre
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by:ASCORedHat
ID: 2786831
Our computer's network comes off of a Kingston EtheRx 10BASE-T Stackable Ethernet Hub.  The DSL company put in a separate router (that's what they call it, anyways) it has the DSL outside line going into it and on the back it has 4 empty Ethernet ports.  They told me to buy a crossover cable and put it into Port 1 and then into the Network Hub.  That's kind of where I'm confused. The only ports open on the computer's Network Hub are two ports, one called Stack IN and one called Stack OUT.  What they are supposed to be for is stacking Network Hubs together in order to expand a network. I've been putting the the cable from the DSL router into the Stack IN port for want of anywhere else to put it, but it's not working. (I tried the OUT port for giggles, but to the same result).  There has got to be SOMEWAY to get this network to see the DSL line, but damned if I can figure it out.
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by:apadua
ID: 2786845
Try this. Remove one of the machines from your Kingston Hub, and plug it into the ISP's "router". Then, plug the cable your ISP told you to get into the vacant slot (you just created) on your Kingston device. That should do the trick.


A.
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by:apadua
ID: 2786848
Also, I thing Error 38 is either Duplicate IP, or Duplicate name. Do you have machines with the same name? Or perhaps a machine with a fixed IP?

Andre.
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by:jgarr
ID: 2786892
"Try this. Remove one of the machines from your Kingston Hub, and plug it into the
ISP's "router". Then, plug the cable your ISP told you to get into the vacant slot (you just created) on your Kingston device. That should do the trick. "

That is the answer. (Check above)
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by:apadua
ID: 2786897
Dude, you're right. OOPS.
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by:jgarr
ID: 2786903
"Try this. Remove one of the machines from your Kingston Hub, and plug it into the
ISP's "router". Then, plug the cable your ISP told you to get into the vacant slot (you just created) on your Kingston device. That should do the trick. "

That is the answer. (Check above)
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by:jgarr
ID: 2786975
No problem. Great minds think alike.
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by:cdc_sickle
ID: 2798203
You could always by another hub to stack, and plug the dsl cable into one of the computer slots in that hub... My dsl wouldnt work in the uplink (stack port), but would in the computer slot...
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by:cdc_sickle
ID: 2798205
Also, for me, the cross over cable only works to the computer, i need a straight one when connecting to the hub... Which dsl router do you have?
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by:ASCORedHat
ID: 2799413
Adjusted points from 200 to 500
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by:ASCORedHat
ID: 2799414
The DSL router is a Flowpoint Router 2200-12 SDSL.  
I tried connecting the DSL router's crossover cable directly into one of the 8 computer ethernet ports on the network hub and the computer's straight cable that I displaced to do so into one of the 4 ethernet slots on the DSL router, but had no luck.  You mention (cdc sickle) putting the straight cable instead of the crossover direct to the hub from the DSL. Hmmm, I guess I could try that.  I only did the straight cable from the DSL to hub once before, but at that time I plugged it into the Stack IN port. Perhaps it might work in one of the Ethernet slots. Couldn't hurt to try various mix and match straight/crossover cable combinations.
Also, I found the box that they left behind in a corner of the attic for the Flowpoint Router, and inside I found an installation kit CD for it that I know they didn't install in our computers.  Do you think it may have something in that that is useful in getting the router to see the computers?
Thanks!
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by:jgarr
ID: 2802863
I would try the straight through cable first. The Ethernet port on the router is like a station connection, which would be straight through.
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by:cdc_sickle
ID: 2802875
When you plugged the cross over cable from the modem to the computer... I don't see why that wouldn't work... Did you set all your settings in the ethernet card? You may want to look through some documents they gave you. Who is your provider? Whats the name of the slot on the router that you're plugging the cord into?
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by:ASCORedHat
ID: 2803045
Well, I never actually plugged the DSL DIRECTLY into a computer. THe DSL router and Network Hub are upstairs in the attic. The cables go from the Network Hub down through the walls to the computers downstairs. To be honest, I really don't think that it's a matter of the DSL not working. The internet company (Internetconnect) says that they see the DSL router working on their end and the LED lights on the router indicate that it's getting the signal okay.  Here's what I HAVE tried: I plugged the DSL crossover cable into 1.)The port on the Network Hub that says STACK IN...didn't work, 2.)The port on the Network Hub that says STACK OUT...didn't work, 3.)One of the 8 Ethernet Ports on the Network Hub (the ones that go down into the computers themselves)...didn't work.  I suppose I could drag one of the computers up into the attic, I really have a feeling that the problem is either with how I've connected the cable - which I find hard to believe in that I've plugged it in about every hole possible. It's probably somewhere in how I've configured the IP addresses in the computers themselves (well, actually I've only done it to two so far). I remembered to make sure I give each computer a different last number in the IP address.  Also put the address they told me to under Subnet Mask, Gateway, DNS Conf and DNS Server Search Order. Maybe they goofed. I should check again with them and make sure they understand our setup. Perhaps the address of an IP would be different when the DSL router has to go through another Hub as opposed to if it went directly into the computer, though I know I told them we had multiple computers.
I DO know for certain what my next step is: they have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee, and we haven't paid for it yet. Maybe telling them to either help us get it going or come take it out would get them more interested in solving the problem. I can't believe that we're the first Network that they've had to set up a DSL with.
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by:cdc_sickle
ID: 2805976
Ok, well you said you plugged A cable into the hub... Was that the crossover?
It should be the straight, as far as I know. Also, they told you to specify ip address's? You may want to click the obtain ip address automatically! In the properties of your card under DNS Configuration... Do you have that all in right?
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by:elvey
ID: 2815743
Are you sure you are using a crossover cable?   A crossover cable is not the same as a regular cable.  Try both, connected to one of the 8 Ethernet Ports on the Kingston Network Hub.
The link light on the hub must light up when you plug the cable.
You will also need to configure the PCs to use the DSL network (appropriate IP and gateway configuration in the 'Network' 'Control Panel' of each PC - information Internetconnect should have given you ).  In fairness, it is probably your job to get your network working, unless it was part of the agreement; what plan did you sign up for?
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by:ASCORedHat
ID: 2815974
Well, I FINALLY got around to dragging a computer upstairs to check once and for all to see if it would work hooked up directly to the DSL, bypassing the network. (Had to come in afterhours so as not to disturb the network everyone has to work on). I had already entered in all the appropriate information that they told me to (IP address, Subnet Mask, Gateway, DNS Conf).  And guess what? Nada.  Tried with both straight AND crossover cable. Then I went into DOS prompt and entered "winipcfg" and came up with the message "Fatal Error. Cannot read IP configuration".  Spoke again to Tech Support who said it would appear that my problem stems in corrupted TCP/IP that doesn't bond with the nic (or something like that. He lost me in his explanation, so I don't quite remember). He said that what I needed to do was to remove the TCP/IP files shown, restart the computers (to make sure they're out of cache memory), then go back in and click on ADD and HAVE DISK and use the Windows 98 CD to get the updated TCP/IP protocol.
So here's where my LATEST problem is: WHERE IS IT on the Win98 CD?  I browse into the Win98 CD and see a bunch of files (add ons, cd sample, drivers, tools, win98) and my guess is it would be in Drivers. So I click on that and there are a bunch of other files, of which my guess would be I would go into "netlan".  I click on netlan and it lists MORE files: cnetp, cnetpcc, epro, fme, ibm, intm16b, la-pcm, madge, ndis89xr, olicom, skethw95, skfew95, skfiw95, sktokw95, xircem95.   WHICH ONE???  Yikes, I don't want to remove anything until I know for sure what to do to get the correct TCP/IP on as I don't want to screw up that computer's link to the network. And I need the network to get TO the Win98 CD as, believe it or not, the Server computer is the only one with a CD-ROM drive.
The tech support guy I spoke with didn't know (or didn't want to get into it), so I'm on my own to figure out how to get the new, improved TCP/IP drivers (adapters? Protocol?...I don't know what you would call them) into the computers. Do all the computers in a network have to have them installed for ANY of them to see the DSL, or will a computer that has this info be able to see the DSL (provided it's wired correctly) regardless of the other computers?
I know this is a lot of questions, but we are royally frustrated and desperate by this whole thing.  I spent four hours after work trying to get it going, with little success, except to narrow down the problem. Anyone who can help us figure this out will truly be a hero.  Big time!
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by:ASCORedHat
ID: 2815980
Ooops, sorry Elvey. Didn't mean to click on the "Rejected Answer". You're actually right in there as to configuring the IP information, it's just HOW that we're having problems with.  So, everyone, IGNORE the ugly, red REJECTED ANSWER next to Elvey's reply.  Elvey certainly didn't deserve that.
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elvey earned 500 total points
ID: 2816253
Ouch! OK. Maybe you can treat this comment like an answer to make up for it.
I think you should ignore the problems and try with another computer that isn't screwed up.  Also, what IP and gateway configuration info did they give you?  Did you order service for more than one IP address?
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by:ASCORedHat
ID: 2817802
We have 7 computers in the network. One server and 6 clients. Here's the info they told me to put in:
IP Address: 192.168.254.10 (last two digits change for each computer - .11, .12, etc)
Gateway: 192.168.254.254
DNS Conf: Enable DNS
Host = dsl
Domain = internetconnect.net
DNS Server Search Order:
216.70.169.66
216.70.169.67
One thing that confused me is that not all the computers have he same TCP/IP protocol. Some say TCP/IP - Winbond W89C940 PCI Ethernet Adapter, another has TCP/IP - Intel(R)Pro/100+ Management Adapter, while others only have TCP/IP - Dial Up Adapter.  I don't know if that even means anything, but it is confusing for an already confused individual.  The tech support says its a bad TCP/IP stack, but I somehow need to get it good again using the WIN98 CD, which I have no idea how to find the proper files (I THINK they are .inf files, but several folders have them and I don't know which I would find it in (see above comment where I list them).  Getting the server fixed is going to be a separate problem in that it doesn't recognize it's mouse (not the mouse, put in several new ones), so I'll have to do it the hard way via keyboard.
Do all computers have to have the correct IP addresses for any to see it, or will it be accessible as long as the computer looking for it has the corrected information?
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by:elvey
ID: 2818276
The info that you ISP as provide makes sense-you have the IPs you need, etc.

The TCP/IP - Winbond W89C940 PCI and TCP/IP - Intel(R)Pro/100+ Management are fine, but the TCP/IP - Dial Up Adapter is not.  You need to install drivers for the network cards in these computers. (And optionally unistall the dial-up adapters.)

You don't need to have all the PCs set up right just to get one to work.  You should try to do that.

(yes, it's .inf files that you need to browse to with the installer.  Also try c:\windows\options\cabs.)
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by:elvey
ID: 2818284
Also, what about the link lights?
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by:cdc_sickle
ID: 2818829
Yeah, I would remove the TCP/IP Dial Up stuff... Although, if you have it there, it should've give you the winipcfg error... Try doing the optain ip address automatically! My DSL always screws up when I specify and all that stuff...
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by:elvey
ID: 2819336
I don't recommend that you try to obtain IPs automatically.
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by:cdc_sickle
ID: 2819558
It's worth a shot!
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by:ASCORedHat
ID: 2829932
Thanks for everyone's help on this.  Actually, I can't say if any of it will work as I have had this monkey taken off my back and a "professional" will be coming in to fix it once and for all. I think what he is planning to do is put a second ethernet adapter card into the server (a different brand) and run the DSL down into that and give it it's own IP address.  All the other computers will be able to access it same as they can the other computers, so that will probably fix the problem. But since it's been taken out of my hands, I'm not going to worry about it anymore.  Thanks again to all!
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