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installing 98 over 95 on fat 16

Posted on 2000-05-15
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Last Modified: 2013-12-28
I currently have the following dual boot situation using partitiom maic:
c:  win 95  fat 16
d:  win NT 4   fat 16
e f g  work files   fat 16
t:    nt work files ntfs

both 95 and nt are slow, and crashes with 95.
a)are there any problems or issues if i install win 98 second release in place of win 95 on c:.  i assume I use a boot diskette and then install from win 98 cd.
b) will this be a new clean install and will i get to format c?
c) any isues with running 98 on fat 16?
d)  will the system remember all the other drives i have set up?
any other suggestions? using 98 vs 95?
thanks





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Question by:hassenfeld
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Expert Comment

by:greeno
ID: 2813246
hassenfeld,
   a) You will lose your Master Boot Record off the harddisk and won't be able to get into NT (98 will overwrite this on installation). I assume Partition Magic will allow you to create some sort of boot menu to put this back. I have personally never used Partition Magic so I can't say for sure.

    b) No it won't be clean install and it won't give you the option to format C:. Format C: before you boot off the bootdisk. This will ensure you get a clean install of 98. If you don't want to do a clean install, upgrade it from within Windows (not recommended and you will still lose your MBR)

    c) There is no issues with running win98 on Fat16.

    d) There is no reason the system will forget any of your drives. At a worst case you need to format c which won't change any of your drive letters around.

Install Windows 98 it has many new features over Windows 95 and is well worth the upgrade. The downside is you need to reinstall all your applications.
Cheers,
Andrew
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Author Comment

by:hassenfeld
ID: 2813936
I plan to install win 98 by using a boot diskette i will make from win 95.
Is it the fdisk command that will format c:
???
i have a copy of the 3 boot files. on a separate diskette as well as a emergency repair diskette.

if I copy the 2 files to the small partition for NT, will it boot then?
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Expert Comment

by:vaworthy
ID: 2814045
Hello hassenfeld:
the fdisk utility is one of the files that is located on the boot disk. However, if I am reading your question correctly you will not want to use this utility. Format should also be on your boot disk. This is the command that you will use only if you are wanting to format your  c:\ and be able to have a clean install of Win98.

fdisk is for partitioning the hard drive. Which you have already done with Partition Magic.

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Expert Comment

by:red117
ID: 2814101
the command you need is to type 'format c:' you can also use '/q' '/s' after them if you like.  /q will make it format faster, and /s will make is with system files on it.  basically you can type 'format /?' and see all the switches and options you have.  if you need a bootdisk, i have a real good one that i can email to you, and you can use.  it is a win98 with format/fdisk etc.. on it, and i have not seen it fail to detect a cdrom yet.
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Author Comment

by:hassenfeld
ID: 2815109
dear red117
i do think I have a win 95 boot with the cdrom drivers, i think these will work.


I want to have win 98 and NT ultimately dual boot.  
One suggestion was to have both op systems in the same c: drive.  The last time I had them on separate (NT was on d:)
any suggestions as to which is better to do? and a minimum size to allow for them together.
I plan to have a separate drive for allprograms (or should I have 2 sep drives) and also another drive for common data files for each of the installs of software .

Thanks.

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Accepted Solution

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greeno earned 100 total points
ID: 2815161
hassenfield,
    I would go through the following steps to get your new system working.

    Create an NT Emergency Repair Disk if you don't have one (rdisk.exe under NT)

    a) Boot to Windows 95, preferrably to a Command Prompt only (use F6 when booting) or boot from your boot disk.
   
    b) Format your c: drive using the FORMAT C: command. You don't really need /S as you are booting from a bootdisk (and will never boot from the HD until Windows is installed). The /Q command will only wipe the directory contents, all the data will still be there. In this case I would full format the drive completely.

    c) Boot from your boot disk and install Windows 98 (you should be able to boot from the CDROM if you have a reasonably new machine)

    d) At this point you will only be able to get into Windows 98, you will then need to run the WinNT setup with your Emergency Repair Disk to restore your Master Boot Record so NT will be able to boot. Optionally you can also use the boot manager that comes with Partition Magic
   
    If you create a booddisk from Windows 95 or Windows 98 then it should detect any ATAPI CDROM without any problem.

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Expert Comment

by:emery800
ID: 2815531
I currently run a couple of machines with either dual boot or triple boot without using partition magic, haven't used that in years. You have been given great advise above, however, my concern is that you indicated you are doing this because system is running slow. I would right-click my computer and determine what version of 95 you are running. I find (it is user preference) that 95B is fast and stable, 98/98SE is resource hog but is stable. To load the dual boot whether it is 95 or 98 the above advise is great and all I can advise is load either 98 or 95 first then install NT4. I usually set these up on different partitions, but that is also user preference, however using fat16 you only have 2.1 gig and I try to keep "C" as clean as possible the reason I put NT on "D". Best of luck, however, think you should look into why you are running slow and crashing with 95 and think you would be much happier, but that is your call. If you are running slow now then you will be running slow after doing what you suggest. The crashing of 95 may be worth trying to determine what is causing it!  Dave
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Expert Comment

by:hahn313
ID: 2815578
I agree with emery800. I tryed to install first winNT and then win95b and got allot of hassles, it was easyer to install the boot info in fat 16 on c: drive then have the OS on each different drive like win95b on d with fat32 and winNT on e with ntfs and someplace there is a patch to let winNT see and write to fat 32 but don't remember at this time  
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Author Comment

by:hassenfeld
ID: 2815711
several have given good advise,
how do i split or divide up the credit to several people?

I have now sucessfully loaded win 98 on c:.  all my data is still on d e f g etc.  even nt is still loaded on d: although i reformated the mbr (the part with the 3 nt files for booting.
I am not sure how much I care sinvce I plan to reload NT, (on a separate drive since most reccomended this.)

any particular suggestions to the following sert up I plan:
c:  win 98    done
d:   win NT
e:   common program files
f:    data files for common programs
g extra




thanks
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Expert Comment

by:greeno
ID: 2815744
Unfortunately you can't divide the credit, you have to give the points to the person you think helped you the most or gave you the best advice.

If you plan to reinstall NT then you have no problems as the Boot Menu will be automatically created by NT on installation.

Glad it all worked out.

Cheers,
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Expert Comment

by:emery800
ID: 2816988
Thanks for the thought of splitting points, and the feedback on your success. I can't talk to the others, however, points are nice but I do it mainly to help others and to get feedback as you did "makes my day" and it was nice to be part of the team in helping you achieve success. Good Luck Dave
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Author Comment

by:hassenfeld
ID: 2817941
I would appreciate 1 additional suggestion:

1 now have win 98 on c:
and had win nt on d:

nt will not boot since I erased the 3 boot files it needs from the small partition.

I would like to be able to open the old nt again to back up a few overlooked files.

I have the following:
boot loader (part of partition magic) which senses win 98.
emergency repair diskette for nt
copy of the files from the nt (MBR??)

3 install diskettes for nt (though repair did cancell when it could not find my cd-rom drive)

how do I got about loading nt to see ms outlook data files?

Thanks
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Expert Comment

by:greeno
ID: 2819181
You should be able to restore those three files using Disk 1 from NT and your ERD.

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Author Comment

by:hassenfeld
ID: 2819252
it loaded disk one,
and asked for #2
then in 2 i could specify 'repair'...
then it wnet on to # 3 and had a problem not recognizing my cd-rom (i did skip the 'recognize mass storage devices'

never got to use the erd.

is there an alternative way to get to see the mbr partition and copy from my diskette these files???
thanks
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Expert Comment

by:emery800
ID: 2819640
There are three or four files that you can copy to include the boot.ini. I can't remember all the files but I am sure an expert here knows what they are and can inform you what ones to copy. The other way is go to your CD-rom that has the I386 file on it and go to that directory (cd I386) and type winnt /b this allows you to start setup and will not require any floppies. When you get to the screen on Installing choose repair and this should replace the necessary files you need. If you were to copy the files I indicated at the beginning you would have to edit the boot.ini and tell it where your winnt was installed. Dave
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Author Comment

by:hassenfeld
ID: 2819845
i have the files, but I do not know where to find the partition which holds the mbr.   it is hidden when win 98 is up.

thanks
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Expert Comment

by:greeno
ID: 2819855
You should be able to restore the MBR from the ERD.

If you use the same boot.ini file from your working config then you won't need to modify it.
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Author Comment

by:hassenfeld
ID: 2821064
what i have found is that the erd is not a 'bootable' diskette.  so i have to start with the 3 set up disks.

also, I do not know where to copy the files to since the area they go is hidden when booting win 98.

what am i missing here?
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