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fab1970

asked on

WIN95 minimum install

I need to put in a "solid-state" hard-disk Win95, with a MP3 player that requires (at the best i know) only the MSVCRT.DLL, and a VB5 app that needs the
Msvbvm50.dll and the MSCOMM.ocx.
In this system i have a SB16 PCI audio card, and a ISA video card (too old to know what is) mounted only if someone need to modify some options in the VB app.
The system have 16M ram, an ATX motherboard, and a P166 that can be replaced by a P75 (i dont know if this happens), and run Win95B.
Again, i need to read from a CD the mp3 files, and to save in a floppy some data, so i need to manage this devices. The keyboards can be present or not, and the PS2 mouse too.
Due to the price of this kind of hard-disk, and the need of resources to play MP3 and to run the VB app, i need to remove all that is not necessary to do this job. I MEANS THAT I NEED TO HAVE ONLY THE WIN95 FILES THAT IS STRICTLY NECESSARY. So i need help about what files i can delete, and what deletion/modification i have to do in the registry or in other config. files.

I put here a lot of pts, so i think i can give some extra rules to manage this question:

1) Dont ask me why i'm in this sea of sh.., this is not important.
2) I can't change OS, so don't talk to me about Win2k, Windows CE, Linux, etc.
I can think at Win98 only if this can reduce the total size of the files needed AND not have disadvantage in terms of speed/resources.
3) Don't put here URL. If you've found some of interesting in the WEB, copy and paste what you think that can help me, or what can give me an idea of what i can found in the URL you have purposed.
4) I think that can be possible that more of one expert help me. So,at the end of the task, i can decide to split the question and give a part of pts to each experts that "I" judge the best answerers.

This is only a "little" part of a big work i'm making, so if i disappears from a little time, don't worry, i return at EE so fast as i can.

Thanks to all for the help.
Avatar of fatcontroller
fatcontroller

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Avatar of fab1970

ASKER

This increase performance and reduce memory usage. Good. But how it can reduce HD needed size? How i can remove all not necessary files, Registrty entries, and other things to decrease the amount of MB to store?
Avatar of A Syscokid
The program fatcontroller is telling you about can install a bare-bones WIN98 system using only 16 meg hard disk space.
if you only need basic files ,consider win95 upgrade.....and do custom install and uncheck everthing,then after install go to win95 update page and add any thing that you need to .....
win95 upgrade is only approx 30mgs and less if you uncheck all accessorys....

you could copy win95b folder to your harddrive (so you can edit)(and run win95 batch program (located on the win95b CD)
run the batch program and select or deselect anything you dont want (ie. internet explorer,acessories,ect)and put the batch file in the win95 setup folder,....this will setup win95b with bare bone files......
you could run the batch program for the upgrade install too.....prob get it down to approx 17 ,18 megs in size.....
I do not think I would even think about using win98 with only 16 MB ram. Stay with 95B! My two cents worth! Advice is already above on how to configure it. Dave
Avatar of fab1970

ASKER

Ok, i made every time the minimum install that i can, but we need to look after.
I try with an example:
to run my apps, when i've finished to configure all the system, all the Control panel's apps remain in the HD, but i don't need it again! We can think also at the task bar and at the start button. I don't know if this stuffs are apps that i can manually remove from HD, or are part of the "main" dlls.
I need to "dismount" Win95, to take only the minimum possible number of files, but keeping the "core" of the OS stable and efficient.

All your comments are useful, but i need to go "inside" the OS much more.

Thanx to all.
Avatar of fab1970

ASKER

Trekie, can you explain better your comment?
What is the batch file you talk?
This issue as I see it is how to determine the needed DLL and their dependencies.  I do not think that you can get Win95 into 19meg but  you can find the list of what files you need by using the "dependency Walker" program that is located with the visual studio tools section.

Another hint is that a file in use is usually locked.  If you can kill it then you did not need it at that second.
batch file I refered to is on the win95 upgrade disk,win95 folder/admin/nettools/netsetup/batch

I just tried this and it didn't work quiet like I thought it would (win98 batch works ok but 95 didn't trim the install like I thought)(this is mainly for unatended install)
I ran a custom install of upgrade win95 (unchecked everything) and got it down to (windows 23.9mgs and C:drive ,34.4mgs ( thats throwing out all bmps, media files,program files)
did the same with win95B and got it down to 38mgs
dont think your going to get it down much smaller than this and it work properly
that program 98 lite that fatcontroller
suggested might be your best bet......but I think it only works for 98,but I could be wrong.....if it does work on 95 it would do what you want
think I might try it just to see for myself.......sorry for not being able to help you more.......James
there is always the swap file to. You might get away with creating a small swap file. I don't think you have enough ram to disable it. well, that was just 2 cents worth of whatever...windows is going to give itself more than you want it to...peace!
With Windows, all are necessar files. The least you can do is go to windows setup and uncheck all programs you do not need. This will free up considerable space. Then go to program files and delete the online programs, like AT& T Microsoft etc. that is junk and you will free another 3 MB. Then go to find and find all *.dll files. And right click on each of them and check their purpose in the second tab in properties. And if you feel they are not necessary, move them to another folder say temp. Do this for all *.dll files and reboot, if you get an error message for a missing file. replace it else continue. In this way, you will left with a lot of junk dll's that you can delete after a few reboots and tests of all functions in windows. YOu need to use discretion here, as these  files depend on your system. And finally use DriveSpace and you can increase the free space on your system. And for reading MP3's get some simple MP3 program. There are programs that take less than 1.5 MB and play MP3's. Check them out on cnet.com or softseek.com
Aside from the obvious requirements already listed; in overview I'd say that you'd save resources by keeping any video graphics settings at lowest possible, loading only drivers and APIs required for your MP3 processes and explorer support (systray).  If you're not planning on DOS support, tweaking your config.sys, autoexec.bat, win.ini, system.ini loads and boot entries, etc. further helps to allow your to customize your unique settings. As DirectX has been upgraded, as with some interfaces, smaller footprints, etc.  I'd check to see which version is required for your specific requirements AND you can tweak your settings within the directx diagnostic routines as well.  Version 7.0a from WindowsUpdate has been the least buggy version I've found.  I'd also check into WindowsUpdate in general to ensure that I've got all needed updates, especially those which have addressed "MEMORY LEAKS".  I'd try a strategy that uses, say, TweakUI interface that has fileinfo.exe type of exe and search each DLL and or system file that you "know" you require and check out the file dependencies listed for each and ensure that those are loaded at startup/installed.  Serious customizations require manual tweaking to identify your specific setup requirements.  
I went to www.98lite.com and downloaded their 98lite utitlity and its just for 98,couldn't make it work on 95,,,,but they do offer a utitlity for removeing explorer from win95,so that may help.....looks to me like win95 upgrade is gona be the smallest version

to run my apps, when i've finished to configure all the system, all the Control panel's apps remain in the HD, but i don't need it again! We can think also at the task bar and at the start button. I don't know if this stuffs are apps that i can manually remove from HD, or are part of the "main" dlls.

heres a thought....if you remove all this,,,,whats gona happen when you have a problem with this system??????no control panal,no tools ,no nuthing,,,,,,,,we are talking about microsoft windows

Try starting windows by pressing F5 at the computer's bootup and choosing "step by step configuration"
jaymz changed the proposed answer to a comment
Sorry about the above mistake.
Try pressing F8 at the computer's bootup, then choose "step by step confirmation" tab at the boot options to load just the wanted files.
have you tried windows 95 companion it is the barebones windows 95 OS don't know how small it is but sure you can find out somewhere if you do find out let me know....I have it just not on a system..all mine use win98 SE. but know a friend had it on a small HD at one time.
Avatar of fab1970

ASKER

Please, don't post answer, only comments. This keep the uqestion more "open" to discussions.
In this case, the answer don't help, 'cause in win95, after the config.sys and the autoexec.bat, you don't have others step-choices.

Trekie:
thanks, i will take a look at the batch file tomorrow.
About 98lite, is'nt the right app for me.
About control panels and other, when i run, i don't need more settings.
I can ever take track of what i've removed and keep a real HD with the CP working to make other settings...
This problems (for your luck!) are only mine. All i want is to know WHAT files are and where in the registry (or ini files) they are called.

Jscuderi:
you're in right. I've forgotted the swap file. i think i can run without it (at least when i've nothing to load other than my apps), but i must try.

To all other:
Thanks.
Most of you guys drive me in the right way.
But i think that sometimes you lost the focus of the question (or maybe i don't understand you right!)
Keep in mind that i don't need to free space (wiht Drivespace).
I need to have the less possible files to run my two apps.
I don't care if other Win apps don't works good.
For example, if i can remove Control panels apps, i don't care if when you click on the control panel icon the system crash. This is why this system run without monitor, keyboard and mouse plugged-in for the most of the time.
So, when i have a fast and clear boot (without question or warnings that requires a user answer), and my apps started in automatic, i can stop my work.

Ciao!
hey don't know if you know this but most of the apps that are windows related can be removed in the add/remove programs tab in control panel and you won't have it crash afterward because windows removes it itself! just uncheck what you want removed on the windows setup tab and it removes it for you been telling other people about this feature because if you want something gone that is a windows feature you can usually get it gone this way. oh I also see that you want the control panel gone as well.. well you won't do it no matter what you try...gotta have a control panel in windows if you don't it isn't windows!  if you are having this much trouble with space I suggest getting a bigger hard drive you can get a 4 GB one for around 70 bucks now at tigerdirect.com they are cheaper now than they have been that would solve the problem. But you won't get rid of control panel...Use it to get rid of the other apps like I said under Windows Setup under the Add/Remove Programs Icon. That's the best advice anyone is going to give you on that.
oh and as far as what you said where you want it to boot and not have to have anything to do and it will boot and start up apps on it's on what about changing your startup password (in control panel) to nothing leave it blank and it won't ask for one at startup and put a shortcut to your apps that you want to start automatically in Startup under your program files. that will insure that they start on their own at startup. I am telling you this is the best advice you will get if you don't want windows on your system try Linux or something else! these 2 answers I gave you solves your trouble 100% and I am sure most experts would agree.  
well i am not the best to answer this question. but please read on. i was toying with the same idea. i was going to install a computer in my car. so i could play mp3. if this is right consider buying a unit that is already done. my problem is not which system or harddrive to run it on. it was the power to drive the computer. with the monitor i did not think of what i was going to do with that problem either.
then i thought about buying a laptop with sound. then   stumbled on a mp3 car player this had solved all my problems.

i hope this helps
: fab1970
it rained here all weekend so I played with this problem.......
I got win95 upgrade down to 9.66 mgs ,but nuthing much worked (boot up just fine and you could look at the files but thats about all, showed my computer on desktop,no toolbar,no control panal)(couldn't install anything ....no apps,no nuthing...so I threw a few dlls and exe's back in and got it somewhat working at 12.9mgs ,but thats without mp3 program and your vb app ,,,,I'm sure they would want a few dozen dll's
just playing with it I dont think its going to be stable enough striped down this low,,,,,,,after messing with this for several hours I'm convenced that the custom install of win95 upgrade or 95B and unchecking everything and throwing out all files(media,bmps,fonts,)installing like : hari_kp suggested is the only way and still have a workable system.......

installing this way without mp3 and the vb app
winupgrade approx 24 and B approx 40
I could be wrong but I think thats the best your going to do......James
Avatar of fab1970

ASKER

Trekie:
Cool! Please, can you send me a list of what are remaining in the 9.66mgs status?
my mail is: parduz@libero.it
If you can, you can zip the result of a DIR C:\ /s/w command.
Thanx for your kindness.
Avatar of fab1970

ASKER

The weekwnd here was like a sauna.
about 30°C and humidity at the top.
....and this is only the beginning...
doing this to stop getting notices in inbox
ASKER CERTIFIED SOLUTION
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trekie1

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I may have not understood correctly,, so please be nice to me.. ;>)
Are you thinking that reducing the registry entries will make any difference to the available disk capacity?
Is it capacity(free disk space) you are after here? Or just freeing up resources, Ram, processor ect?
Pete
I recommend deleting your <windir>\Help\*.* files(It will free 3 megs approximately). Then <windir>\Media\*.*(5megs). As for me when I install Win95 it takes 50 megs or some more. Try Custom mode when installing and choose there only what you need or undselect anything. That's it I think.
any luck with the striped install fab1970????????.............James
Your doing great and trekie1 is doing an excellent job! :>) Dave
Avatar of fab1970

ASKER

I'm still alive!
Now i'm at Seul. As i says, i test your answers when my job give me some "spare" time.

I start the job purposed by trekie, but i'm not able to finish, 'cause from July i'm in this town. (holidays excluded!)

I'm very sorry, but i need to eat....
;)
Avatar of fab1970

ASKER

OK! Time to close the question.
I've worked a lot, i can't count how many reboots i've done. But the task it at the end.
Trekie,
your suggest is only the begin. Here i put a dir of what files i really need. This system plays MP3 with WinAmp. For Copyright reasons, i can't include in this list of files that are needed to run my specific app. But that does'nt really matters. What is impoortant is that i have a Win95/WinAmp based mp3 player in less of 15Mb. Trying to remove each of this files give an error or do somewhat goes wrong.

I think that some DLL is'nt really needed, but i'm no able to found where they are called, so i say "Give up!".

About the grade of the response, don't think bad. I really apreciate your help, but for 1000 pts i was hoping in somewhat of more "ready to use" or some really "Secret" information.
Thanx a lot to you and to all that helps me.

Here the list of filesç
This don't show hidden files.
The base directory C:\Rimasti is a copy of the root.


Directory di C:\RIMASTI

[.]                 [..]                [PROGRA~1]          [WINBOOT]           [WINDOWS]    
AUTOEXEC.BAT      SBCD.BAT          COMMAND.COM       SYS.COM           CONFIG.SYS  
         5 file        116.086 byte

Directory di C:\RIMASTI\PROGRA~1

[.]                 [..]                [WINAMP]      
         0 file              0 byte

Directory di C:\RIMASTI\PROGRA~1\WINAMP

[.]                 [..]                [PLUGINS]           [SKINS]             WINAMP.EXE  
WINAMP.INI        WINAMP.M3U        WINAMP.PIC        WINAMP.Q1  
         5 file        872.299 byte

Directory di C:\RIMASTI\PROGRA~1\WINAMP\PLUGINS

[.]                 [..]                IN_CDDA.CDB       DSP_RO~1.DLL      IN_CDDA.DLL
IN_MOD.DLL        IN_MP3.DLL        OUT_DS.DLL        OUT_WAVE.DLL      PLUGIN.INI  
DSP_DE~1.TXT
         9 file        507.317 byte

Directory di C:\RIMASTI\PROGRA~1\WINAMP\SKINS

[.]                 [..]          
         0 file              0 byte

Directory di C:\RIMASTI\WINBOOT

[.]                 [..]                DOSKEY.COM        KEYB.COM          MODE.COM    
EGA.CPI           EMM386.EXE        MSCDEX.EXE        COUNTRY.SYS       DISPLAY.SYS
HIMEM.SYS         KEYBOARD.SYS      SBIDE.SYS  
        11 file        412.812 byte

Directory di C:\RIMASTI\WINDOWS

[.]                 [..]                [DESKTOP]           [SYSTEM]            [TEMP]        
WIN.COM           EXPLORER.EXE      RUNDLL.EXE        RUNDLL32.EXE      SETVER.EXE  
SMARTDRV.EXE      SNDVOL32.EXE      TASKMAN.EXE       WININIT.EXE       SYSTEM.INI  
WAVEMIX.INI       WIN.INI           WINAMP.INI        HIMEM.SYS         IFSHLP.SYS  
        15 file        474.218 byte

Directory di C:\RIMASTI\WINDOWS\DESKTOP

[.]                 [..]                SORITONG.LNK      THEMIC~1.WAV
         2 file        136.244 byte

Directory di C:\RIMASTI\WINDOWS\SYSTEM

[.]                 [..]                [IOSUBSYS]          [VMM32]             MSGSM32.ACM
MSNAUDIO.ACM      MMSYS.CPL         ADVAPI32.DLL      COMCTL32.DLL      COMDLG32.DLL
COMMCTRL.DLL      COMMDLG.DLL       DDEML.DLL         DDRAW.DLL         DDRAW16.DLL
DIBENG.DLL        GDI32.DLL         KERNEL32.DLL      LINKINFO.DLL      MCIOLE.DLL  
MMCI.DLL          MMSYSTEM.DLL      MPR.DLL           MPRSERV.DLL       MSACM.DLL  
MSPWL32.DLL       MSVCRT.DLL        MSVCRT20.DLL      MSVFW32.DLL       OLE32.DLL  
OLEAUT32.DLL      PKPD.DLL          PKPD32.DLL        PRODINV.DLL       RPCRT4.DLL  
SBPCIR16.DLL      SHELL.DLL         SHELL32.DLL       SHLWAPI.DLL       TOOLHELP.DLL
UMDM16.DLL        URL.DLL           USER32.DLL        WIN87EM.DLL       WINMM.DLL  
COMM.DRV          KEYBOARD.DRV      MCICDA.DRV        MCIWAVE.DRV       MMSOUND.DRV
MOUSE.DRV         MSACM.DRV         SBPCI9X.DRV       SERWVDRV.DRV      SYSTEM.DRV  
VGA.DRV           DDHELP.EXE        GDI.EXE           KRNL386.EXE       MPREXE.EXE  
MSGSRV32.EXE      USER.EXE          KBDIT.KBD         CP_1252.NLS       CP_850.NLS  
LOCALE.NLS        UNICODE.NLS       PCIMP.PCI         MMTASK.TSK        MMDEVLDR.VXD
MSMOUSE.VXD       PARALINK.VXD      PCI.VXD           SBPCI.VXD         SERWAVE.VXD
VMM32.VXD  
        72 file      8.320.421 byte

Directory di C:\RIMASTI\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS

[.]                 [..]                BIGMEM.DRV        AIC78XX.MPD       AMSINT.MPD  
NCRC710.MPD       NCRC810.MPD       ESDI_506.PDR      HSFLOP.PDR        RMM.PDR    
APIX.VXD          ATAPCHNG.VXD      CDFS.VXD          CDTSD.VXD         CDVSD.VXD  
DISKTSD.VXD       DISKVSD.VXD       NECATAPI.VXD      SMARTVSD.VXD      VOLTRACK.VXD
        18 file        340.087 byte

Directory di C:\RIMASTI\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\VMM32

[.]                 [..]                IFSMGR.VXD        IOS.VXD           QEMMFIX.VXD
         3 file        264.639 byte

Directory di C:\RIMASTI\WINDOWS\TEMP

[.]                 [..]          
         0 file              0 byte

Totale file elencati:
       140 file     11.444.123 byte
        35 dir       236.208.128 byte disponibili