If I choose not to run '95 or '98 will this 12GB ,,,,,I assume you mean if you install someother OS,(winNT,linux) will this 12 gig be reconized,,,,,,,yes,you can install one of them on this space ,,,,,the install would reconize it as unpartitioned space and let you use it

I'm not going to install another OS.  I have to use it with 16bit forensic investigation software.  I will be using this software to copy the contents of the machine that is being investigated to the 20GB harddrive that I partitioned... Hopefully being able to use the entire 20GB.  Does it sound like this might work?

Not with dos 6.22. You might try win 95 or 98 with fat32 drives. Windows 95 and 98 still run as a shell on top of dos. That dos is still accessible to most older dos programs. Unless the forensic software is REALLY old, it should work. Check with manufacturer for compatibility. As for being 16 bit software. 1/3 of 95 and 98 are still 16 bit. What doesn't work in these modes is software that reads and writes DIRECTLY to the hard drive. Most dos software uses bios and dos calls for low-level access. If the software is that old it will be almost useless, because it wouldn't be able to analyze a computer that was running a newer OS. Criminals tend to use newer hardware because crime is very profitable.

You can install just a win 95 or win 98 dos command line , this will work just fine but give you full access to the hard drive, but still run 16 bit programs without any problem. All you need is a win 95 OSR2 or win 98 boot diskette.

Boot from it, remove all partitons with Fdisk, reboot, Say NO to large disk partitons, create your new boot partiton as 2 Gb FAT. Then create an extended partiton  of 18 GB and 9 2 GB logical partitons within that.

Run format C: /s and copy all the win 9x utils over to C;.

I hope this helps.

It will not work because DOS runs a fat 16 that only allows 2GB partitions.  You will not be able to utilize all 20 GB unless you load win 95 or 98.

if your set on useing dos 6.22 then I dont see anyway to use the whole drive......like you have it setup...........makeing each partition the max of 2047 mgs would give you approx 16 gig of useable HD..........
I dont know anything about the software your gona run,but dont see any reason it wouldn,t work on a setup like  scott_silva suggested
I'm haveing a brain fade now (smile)

I would try my suggestion first, since it is easily reversible ( provided your data is backed up ).

Good Luck !

according to this url ,DOS cant handle more than a 8.4 gig disk............
http://howto.tucows.com/LDP/HOWTO/Large-Disk-HOWTO-6.html

Hi!

Your best bet would be to download the disk management software for you hard drive from off the net.

If your drive is a Seagate, go to www.seagate.com and download Sea Tools.

If your drive is a Maxtor, download MaxBlast from www.maxtor.com

If your drive is a Quantum, download Disk Manager for Quantum from www.quantum.com

(If you have another brand drive, let me know and I'll tell you where you can get the drivers from).

These utilities will put an "overlay" on your hard drive which will allow you to access the whole drive under DOS.

All the best,

Stu.

I like Partition Magic.  There is a demo version available at https://order.powerquest.com/scripts/register/register.dll/reg?psurveyno=361.  It'll let you make your FAT16 partition as big as possible.  I'll trade you your 20 gig for a 2 if you want.

Here's the rest of their free downloads.  http://www.powerquest.com/freestuff/index.html

tengage.  Are you sure that is true?  I hadn't heard that Partition Magic could do that and checked it out.  This is from the FAQ fror the current version of PM:

5. Does PartitionMagic work with drives larger than 1024 cylinders? If so, then why does PartitionMagic and my other programs only see about 504MB of my large drive?

Yes. PartitionMagic 4.0 will work with drives larger than 1024 cylinders. The 1024 cylinder limit is referring to a DOS limitation. DOS can only see that first 1024 cylinders or 504mb. In order to work around this limitation you need to either enable LBA mode in your CMOS or use a Disk Management program such as Ontrack Disk Manager or MicroHouse EZ-Drive. An easy way to find whether your computer is set up to work around this DOS limitation is to run FDISK/STATUS. If FDISK recognizes the whole drive, then you are using one of the above methods to work around the DOS 1024 cylinder limitation and shouldn’t have any problem using PartitionMagic to partition your hard drive.

What version of PM are you using, and are you positive that you can make MS-DOS see the whole drive?

Just curious, not nit-picking.

Stu.

I agree with Stuart. If you read your Hard Drive's manual they'll suggest getting the BIOS overlay too. It's a free download, fairly easy to install, and it gets rid of all of the limitations. The only negative thing about it is that if you want to boot from a floppy, you'll need to wait a little longer. But it WILL let you install any OS, including DOS and have it be able to use the full Hard Drive.

MSDOS 6.22 is 16 bit, so maximum number of sectors/drive=1024. In your case that comes down to 8GB.
Install a 32bit OS if you want to use that space.

tibori! Unless they have changed the disk overlay they do not support NT!
However, the disk overlay is an option and also imagecast or another good imaging software. You could image the dos 6.22 that you could install on a small harddrive and then image it to the 20 gig and set it up with one, two or more partitions. So you can get Dos6.2 or 6.22 loaded on a 20 gig. Dave
P.S. I have to agree that this software appears to be pretty outdated, if it doesn't support a windows platform and would seriously be looking for newer software that supports a windows OS.

Hi Dave,

Normally I wouldn't recommend using the Disk Management software, but in this instance I did because szeigle only wanted to use DOS 6.22.  If they where using NT or 98, this wouldn't be a problem.

I think you'll find the current versions of the Disk Managers will work OK with all versions of Windows except for NT (& 2000).

Stu.

Hi Stuart Johnson! I had figured out where you were coming from so I support you, wasn't trying to critize you. I don't support the overlays, however, in some situations you don't have a choice and have to use them, it was a good call IMHO. :>) Dave

hmm. This is from seagate's page:

Which file systems and operating systems support DiscWizard?

    Currently, DiscWizard works with Windows 3.x, Windows 95 and Windows 98.
    DiscWizard and Disk Manager are fully compatible with FAT32 file systems. Other
    operating systems, such as DOS, OS/2 (FAT16) and Windows NT (FAT16) work with
    Disk Manager, which is included on the DiscWizard diskette. Depending on your BIOS,
    you may not need Disk Manager. HPFS (OS/2) and NTFS (Windows NT) file systems
    are not compatible with DiscWizard or Disk Manager.

--------------------------------
So it sounds like it supports WinNT as long as the FS is FAT--right?
I don't know for sure cause I've never used NT with a BIOS overlay, but it sounds like it's possible? Or is there another limitation(like partition size) that would make it unrealistic?
Anyhow it sounds like it even "works with" DOS, which is the key here.

I'm not real big on NT either, but I very much doubt NT will work even using FAT because of the way it directly accesses hardware.  The overlay intercepts calls made to the hard drive and NT would probably **** itself.

So long as your computers BIOS supports it, NTFS, HPFS & FAT32 will recognise the drive without any additional software or drivers.

There have been a number of disk size limitations over the years.  8.4 gig was the last one (I think).  If the PC has an 8.4gig limitation, and you can flash your PC's BIOS (upgrade it), you'll be able to access the whole drive without overlays.

Stu.

Oh yeah.  szeigle.  Any luck on this yet?  It's been quite a while since we have heard from you.

Cheers,

Stu.

I have tried loading NT4 using the disk overlay and it crashes big time, this was using fat16! Dave

NT + disk overlay = :(

Double Ditto! :>(

Hmm. Interesting. I wonder what they mean when they say it's supported. Of course I believe it, Windoze is like that on many issues(full of bugs) Just out of curiosity emery800: how far did you get?

Up to the reboot and then nothing, NT4 tries to load prior to the disk manger loading so it couldn't happen. When I looked after it was like I never installed NT. It is quite an interesting experience and I tried it on several occasions before I figured out what was happening. :>)

That's true, boot loaders do get loaded before the disk overlay, if you install in a normal fashion, but what if you install in a way where you put the install disk in only after the disk overlay loads(only after you're prompted to boot from a disk, I mean).
BTW, don't go to too much trouble for my curiosity. I should go test it myself...if I only had the time :)

Tried it that way also and it still put the loader in front of the overlay on reboot, if I remember correctly. It crashed I know that! :>)

:) thanx. glad I returned to this now, some real discussion rather than just all pro PQ or something and no meat...

One wish I do still have: WipeDisk

Concept - kill/clear/clean/zero or blank fill the first sector. Most of these programs won't do that, many seem to read before write, and depending on what they understand of what is read, 'may' take action that is confusing to say the least.  In extended situations, I'd really like a good way to start over and KNOW THAT it is REALLY starting over again.

I may often use such products because I know/suspect the current configuration (partitions) is bad, so I'd rather NOT run PQ or alternative that DEPENDS on that sector having some quality to it. <EOR - end-of rant>

WipeDisk. Used to be the cheaper products would provide that option first. Slows down virus chain as well.

One thing I don't know if it was mentioned above is:
When you purchase a new harddrive now days it comes with a disk from the manufacturer that will allow you to image your old drive and put it on the new drive. You can download this from the harddrive manufacturer's web site if you didn't get one with your drive. I would take a smaller harddrive, lets say the one you had and then delete everything on the new drive and delete the partitions. Hook up both harddrives in the machine and then run the software. I don't think it matters to the software what OS you are running, because it is run from DOS. Run the software and it should setup the new harddrive using all its capacity as fat16, it is similiar to imagecast or ghost etc. I would think about trying this before you go to far and get to much on the new drive. Dave

sorry this took so long.  i got wrapped up in dns and sendmail problems then went to school for a while.  back to basics...  i've found that with forensics stuff it is best to have as little overhead as possible on the system so that the functionality of whatever was put on the box cannot be put into question if the case goes to court.  i will have to work around this space limitation problem with jaz drives i guess.  thanks for all the input.  if nothing else, i've learned a bit about bios and OS's.  thanks again.

(so, what is emoticon for surprise...)

I'm happy if you are, but have minor confusion, having been somewhat inattentive here myself.

Forensic could mean the s/w needed to run analysis, as_in the product used dictates the O/S.  Or, it could mean getting a clone of a 'something' and trying to figure out what that is.

In the former case, I see no problem with keeping 1st partition as Dos, then loading up the others with other o/s and tools and toys for more analytical work, utilizing all disk.

I most prefer a 2nd drive no matter what, due to the probs of partition sector. Going adaptec scsi, or facsimile that allows bios to choose boot drive.

For latter case, optimum is a clone of original equipment for the use of speed (your drive is also likely to be faster, as-is cpu). If going to introduce another player (Jaz) to machine, you may get even further astay. I'd still vote for a drive 2, use it for the toys, the Windoze and analysis progs. but 1st drive, agreed, s/b for the clone due to c:\ issues. Again, needing the bios boot selection of drive #.

Still, if you are cloning a dos drive, you must partition identical to it. AND - meThinx you'll do it on Pentium speed. Another variant.  Despite the court caution, there's also the capability question.

For forensics, you'll need to run progs 'as-is'.  But in many cases you will not, very many.

In my legacy experience, the old programs from dos world, dealing with data, that people at least used to like and are reluctant to toss.... well,,, a lot of them simply 'blow up' when run at higher speed.  For productivity, we add patches to get things to work.  For your case, it would seem that patching will only increase your problem in cya.

So,

last thought, think on networking. perhaps a dos boot disk to network, to copy pieces to examine offline.

The machine used s/b as close in nature to machine cloned, as in old. Meaning also cheap these days.

As many people upgrade, and keep upgrading, they are increasing the # machine they are at first reluctant to let go of, then, find that no one else wants at any price.

So,
consider, help them out...
Offer small change to take old slow PC off hands of another.

For what I've seen of Data Forensics, you are scanning an existing hard drive pulled from a suspects PC and looking for ANY data of use, whether intact or attempted to be erased. What is on your hard drive would not be as consequential as having a free port to hook up the suspect drive and do your deep analysis, and extract any data of use to another drive. You do not want to do anything except READ scans to the suspect drive as to prevent corruption of evidence. Tiramisu is a decent prog. for this as it boots from a floppy, and I recovered an entire FDISK'ed partition sans the long file names. It took almost 48 hrs to recover 10 megs, but was well worth it.  :{>