Link to home
Start Free TrialLog in
Avatar of berg1375
berg1375

asked on

Building a system

Hello all  :-)

I currently have a Gateway computer (OK, stop laughing!). I want to build myself a new system. I am keeping my Monitor, Scanner(USB), Printer(USB), Keyboard(USB), Mouse(USB), DVD, DVD
10 Gig HD, 30 Gig Removable HD, 3.5 Floppy, Pentium III 866, and heat sink. What I want to do is get a new Motherboard that has all the capabilities I currently have and some additions. Here are the specs I need:

What I currently have:

DVD
10 Gig HD
30 Gig Removable HD
3.5 Floppy

These are minimum requirements:
133 System Bus
4 PCI
3 DIMM
1 AGP
2 ISA
Video Card 16 Megs, Video Out.
Voice/Fax Modem
Sound Card (Sound blaster compatable)

What I need is for someone that knows hardware very well to take a look at my current motherboard:

http://www.gateway.com/support/techdocs/references/motherboard/0aavi/2511081/251108101.shtml

What I need is someone to tell me exactly what I need to fit what I am keeping and what I want. Points are not an option, but money is, so be gentle.

Any advise or recommendations is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
berg
Avatar of d_hall
d_hall

Well, you need a socket 370 motherboard to take that processor.

You need two IDE sockets to take the HDDs and DVD, but that is pretty standard.

The video card you could go a GeForce MX, or on a tighter budget a TNT2.  Both are available with tv-out options.  If you are more interested in video outpur than gaming, perhaps an older Matrox card would suit you better.

I'd avoid a motherboard with built-in components (like video card or modem) because they are often inferior in quality, can limit your options later, and if the $2 modem chip breaks you have to replace the $200 motherboard.

Why do you need the ISA slots?  Are you planning on keeping an old modem or sound card?

If you can do without the ISA slots I'd recommend the Asus CUSL2-C.  If not, I'd go for an older Asus, or perhaps a Gigabyte.
Avatar of berg1375

ASKER

The current motherboard is completely integrated. I do not have a video, modem, or soundcard right now. That is why I need to buy one. I have no idea why I need ISA, I just figured why not  :-). If you or others think it is not necessary, then you know more then I. Which is the case. I do not know much about hardware, so be detailed in suggesting products please. Why a socket 370, and not slot1?
because Slot 1 was for Pentium1 processors, all processors today went back to sockets. The Slot Idea of Intel was just to deal with their competitors who had legal rights to copy their socket7 processors.
Your current mobo is Socket 370, so I'm assuming your CPU is too (and that you want to keep it)!  And (as MarcG mentioned) the Slot1 format has been abandoned - a socket 370 will be more upgradable than a Slot 1.

If you do nt have any ISA components that you want to keep, I would definitely go for new PCI components and get something like the Asus CUSL2-C.

Sound card I'd go Vibra 128, or even a SB16 PCI if you can find one.  Most people can't tell an SB16 from one of the new Platinum cards on PC speakers.

Video card: Asus 3800T (TNT2 with TV-out) or 7100T (GeForce MX with TV-out), or something like a Matrox 400 (don't know much about Matrox - I tend to go for nVidia cards because I play 3D games a fair bit).  The GeForce MX is a great value card that will handle current games like Q3 quite nicely.  But if you aren't a gamer then go for the TNT2 or a Matrox.
Would something like this do me good?

http://www.axiontech.com/cgi-local/prdtinfo.asp?prdt=VISTV33000

I want to watch my DVD's on my TV, and I do some gaming (Diablo, Pilot games.....)
Now for a modem? I do not know anything about modems. All I know is that mine is integrated in my MB. You can see it at the link I posted in the original Q. Help please :-)
Hi,

If I was you I would keep to quality manufacturers - less chance of problems!  For example: a creative sound card, nvidia graphics card.  It will also mean less hassle when finding drivers for your hardware!

David.
About Modem :
- Avoid Winmodem  ( impossible or very difficult to use with Linux ). Moreover some old model ( one year - Aztech )are not compatible with WinMe !.
- Prefer external model with com and/or usb interface.
- US Robotics or Elsa external modems are goods.

I am running WinME, and would prefer an internal Data\Voice\Fax modem. Should I look for US Robotics or Elsa?
Watch out for this heatsink!  I looked at the link provided in the original question, and from the heatsink I'm reasonably sure that the Gateway case has a fan pointed straight at this heatsink or at least one with a duct that routes air over the heatsink.

A generic ATX footprint case will NOT have this!  You will need a new heatsink and fan combo, which is better than a detached fan anyway.  The best is the 'Orb' series (golden and silver) made by Thermaltake.  Your favorite online vendor probably stocks them.

regards,
magarity
I just ordered a new case, and fan yesterday. So should I also order a new heatsink as well?
The link I posted earlier to the motherboard that was suggested http://www.asus.com.tw/products/motherboard/pentiumpro/cusl2-c/spec.html

I was looking at this, because I was thinking about possibly getting a new processor anyway, and this one does not say that it supports my chipset (supplied in my original link). What if I do not want to get a new processor? Why are things so difficult?
About modem, i don't think internal is a good choice ...
Because
- when you want reset your modem you need to reboot your computer
- with external you have led to check signals
- many internal modem are winmodem ... not compatible with Linux ... need CPU ...


You can also use a slot 1 board with a slotkey.  This is about the same price as a slot 1 processor considering the cost of the adapter.  If you go with socket 370 board you can get really good deals on socket 370 processors and won't need adapter.  You might also want to consider ATA 100 as a requirement on your board.
 

Why so many ISA slots?
Personally, I like the ABit BX-133 and the VH6-II boards which I just bought the latter will get the BX-133 next chance I get.  The VH6-II has built in sound which you can disable and it is also a feature some detest.  These boards both lack the ISA support you are after.  For the slots you want I would recommend a Tyan board.  They are reliable and should have what you want.

You should not need a processor fan if you buy retail which has the following advantages.  Looking at cost you may save $10-15.00 on OEM, however you don't get the same warranty and you have to buy the fan which can run between $10-20.  When you buy Retail processor you get heat sink and fan as well as a 3 year warranty.
Sorry, you are keeping old processor not building new system.  Get a good heatsink and fan!
The chipset is on the motherboard. Your current processor is supported by the motherboard suggested by d hall. For an internal modem, I've used these with success:

http://www.gogocity.com//product_details.asp?dept%5Fid=401&pf%5Fid=CO02MODM0015&mscssid=KUA3WWPG98SR2JES00JP42PFCC1L7750

You will need a new heatsink/fan for your processor. Check this article:

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1279

Both the video and sound cards you have chosen would be fine, unless you are interested in spending more.

Um, yeah.  The Asus definitely takes your current processor, and as the others have suggested you may benefit from a new heatsink/fan combo.  I suggest you get a little tube of thermal grease while you're at it - it works much better than the thermal pads that come with most heatsinks (although it's worth asking before you buy it - some of the better ones already come with some thermal grease).

The video card is OK, although 3dFX have gone out of business, and even though they've been bought out the word is that nVidia will not be supporting Voodoo cards.  You -shouldn't- have any trouble, but if you do...

Re the modem: the internal/external thing really comes down to personal preference.  If you never intend to run Linux, then that is obviously not a problem.  It can be handy to be able to reset the modem sometimes, but then win WinME a reboot doesn't take long anyway.  USR and ELSA are probably both OK.
You have all provided great answers. i have one last question:

The system bus is determined by the motherboard not the processor? My current system is running 66Mhz, and it sucks. Is it solely my motherboard, or does it have something to do with the processor too? I just want my system to run much faster then the normal PC. This means video loading, video not freezing, windows opening is miliseconds not seconds, as well as closing. In your honest opinions, do the system components we have chosen here and the ones I am keeping fit the desires I have?

Thank you all
berg
I think with the ASUS board and your current processor running at 133MHz, you'll see a vast difference. I don't see where RAM has been talked about yet. You should invest in some PC133 CL2 memory as it's very cheap now. Check here one brand of quality RAM. I've never had a problem with any I've bought so far, and the price difference between it and generic doesn't make the cheaper stuff worth it.

http://www.crucial.com

Just plug in the motherboard, and it will give you the modules that will work in it.

John
The 866 should be running at 133 x 6.5 = 866.  It is currently running at 66 x 6.5 = 433!  So you'll see roughly twice the performance from the CPU on the new motherboard, which is a big difference.

Be aware that the CUSL2-C does not support 66mHz ram.  PC100 ram will be fine (you can set the memory clock separate to the bus speed), but to use older RAM you will have to overclock it.  You haven't mentioned what RAM you have - are planning to buy some?  Go for brand-name pc133 (Kingston, Crucial, Hyundai) because the price difference is negligable to generic pc100.
I am currently running PC100 in my cow machine. I will be buying at least 256K of PC133 from crucial for this new machine. I want no stones left unturned with this machine.
While just doing a search on crucial for ASUS as the manufacturer of the motherboard I noticed that it is not in the list. I should be able to use any PC133 on crucial for this motherboard, right?
The PC100 will run fine at 100mHz, and if you are lucky it may do 133.  Bung it in and give it a go - it's basically free!  Overclocking the pc100 may lead to errors or BSODs, but you can run a burn-in tester like DocMem to give it a checkup before you settle in.
>> While just doing a search on crucial for ASUS as the manufacturer of the motherboard I noticed that it is not in the list. I should be able to use any PC133 on crucial for this motherboard, right?

Yes, you should.  This motherboard is relatively new, so it may not have made the list yet.
" * NOTE * This modem is NOT a Winmodem. "

LOL - I guess they've been reading frache's posts! ; )

That all looks OK.  Make sure they send you the AGP Voodoo, not the PCI one.  Also make sure they send the CUSL2-C -without- the onboard sound.


If you are unsure about the heatsink/fan (and they certainly vary) overclocking site often have reviews and comparisons.  You obviously don't need a $100 fan in an ordinary situation, but a little research could help you avoid a dodgy heatsink which will cause trouble later.

A few to try

  http://www.overclockers.com/ 
  http://www.wfhillman.addr.com/overclocking_faq.htm 
  http://www.maximumhardware.com/overcloc.html 
  http://www.hyperformance-pc.com/overclocking_faq.htm 
I would suggest that you recheck the memory. The CUSL2-C wants CL=2 memory. This is the one you want.

http://www.crucial.com/store/PartSpecs.asp?imodule=CT32M64S4D7E

John
Where did you see that it wants CL=2 memory? I did not see that anywhere on the site.
Avatar of dew_associates
I really don't understand why you would want to change processors given that the 866 will run just fine and you can't pour too much more through the bus anyway. As for the memory, Crucial is a great choice as their warranty policy is one of the best, but why put it on a MB that only gives you a limited one year warranty and their support sucks.

Just my 2 cents, given that I do this every day.

Dennis
If you go to the Crucial site and plug your motherboard manufacturer and model number in, all the selected chips are CL=2.

I just built a P-III system using an Aopen AX3S Pro board. So far, very good results. It was for my brother, and he's extremely happy with the stability. I've got 4 systems in the field with Aopen boards, and no trouble so far, so I can't tell you about their support, but maybe dew associates has more insight into this company. How about it, Dennis?

John
You can learn a lot of things here :

http://www.tomshardware.com/
http://www4.tomshardware.com/mainboard/index.html

Sorry if this link is already posted ...
Okay, all valid points I think. So what do we suggest here? Remember, I do not know all the specs that you do.
Sounds like you upgraded your processor to me.  What happened to the original?  I don't know of any company that would sell a pII-833 for use in a 66 Mhz Celeron system.  

Anyway, Here is what I would advise.

Whatever brand MOBO you like that has socket 370 (I told you my favorites)
A cooling fan for your processor
256 MB of PC-133 RAM (dirt Cheap now)
Soundblaster Live! Value card
ATI Radeon 32 Graphics
3Com 5610 Modem(PCI-Internal)  Works with Linux very well!
3com 3c905 BTXNM 10/100 ethernet
Support for ATA-100 Hard drives or (built in SCSI is good but costly)
Can somone tell me the benefits of an "AX3S Pro" over an "AX3SP". I am learning as I go so please forgive.
ASKER CERTIFIED SOLUTION
Avatar of dew_associates
dew_associates
Flag of United States of America image

Link to home
membership
This solution is only available to members.
To access this solution, you must be a member of Experts Exchange.
Start Free Trial
The pro adds these additional features:

Support Dr. LED (Upgrade Optional)
DIE-HARD BIOS wtih External Controller (Upgrade Optional)
Enhancement of 2200uf Low ESR Capacitors for Overall Stability
CPU Vcore Adjustment for Overclockers through BIOS Setting (1.3V ~3.5V)

Other than this, they are essentially identical.
Actually the AX3S has the DR.LED support, the Die-Hard BIOS, the 2200uf caps, and the voltage adjustment. THe chipsets are different. 815E in the case of the AX3S and 815EP for the SP. The 815E chipset has onboard video where the EP does not. Other than that I see very little difference.

I agree with you Dennis. There are loads of vendors who will string you along (mainly because they really don't know anything about the hardware other than how to sell it). I will always try to buy directly from the manufacturer when possible, even though it is a bit more expensive. That way, if there are problems, you're dealing with someone who knows the parts and has to stand up to the warranty. Creative, Western Digital, Crucial all do, and in the past 3Dfx offered the option to buy direct. If d hall is correct, then 3Dfx is out for that now.
In checking the Aopen site, I see they now have a board with IEEE 1394 (firewire). From what I understand, it will be the replacement of USB in the future (something that actually works well?). Another consideration (for any brand board).
Okay, so I have a good soundcard picked, agood modem picked, and I need to re-evaluate the video card and motherboard.

This is good information. Let me give a little insight to what I will be using it for:

I am a software developer, so I need it to handle processing large amounts of data. I also do some surfing and downloading from the net, as well as some gaming. I agree that the processor I have is plenty for what I need. Now as you say I need a good base (board), that can handle what I want to add (video, sound, modem), and handle what I am keeping (Removable HD, Fixed HD, DVD, Floppy, at least 3 USB ports). It must be at least 133 bus, and in the future if I want to add more components be able to handle those. I think I can handle finding the video card, but the motherboard is the key, and I do not think that I have the knowledge to pick the best one for my needs and not too expensive. I plan on keeping this system for a few years, so a long warranty is good like Dennis stated. I am looking for good advice, and an explaination as to why it is a good board for my needs. Thanks to all for the info.
Interesting I made comments and they seem to have vanished.  Anyway, I asked what happened to your original processor?  I believe that no one would sell a PIII-866 which runs on a 133 MHZ FSB on a system that only supports 66Mhz.  I even gave specs for a good setup
Use MOBO of your choice that has socket 370 support
ATA 100 suppotr is good to have
Ram is cheap get as much as the board can take
A Radeon 32MB ATI card can be had for about 100.00
It would be good to use the 3Com 5610 Modem for support from all OSs.
The 3Com 3C905 10/100 NIC is a good thing.
For sound the Soundblaster Live! Value card is a great deal.
Sorry My last comment was surrounded by ones of greater size!
It's tough to keep track of a thread half a mile long.  :-)
Berg, based upon your last comment, I would probably go with an Intel D815EAA or EAAL motherboard (the later gives you a 10/100 LAN port for $12 for the future). It's and extremely stable board with a 3 year warranty. BIOS and Driver updates have been consistent since its release. As for video, I have to agree with the ATI Radeon 32MB video card. It supports all current functions including openGL. It's not an overclockers card, but given what you are doing, it will handle it easily. And it too has an excellent warranty and support.

If you have trouble locating either, let me know.
In looking at Dew Comments, while I favor teh ABIT boards for certain Innovations, their literature says nothing at all about warranty.  That is somewhat troubling, but so far I have not had any of them go bad.
I would not buy from any online retailer until you check them out at www.resellerratings.com or www.bizrate.com.  I seem to recall "GoGoCity" as having *horrible* ratings and many dissatisfied customers...(link: http://www.resellerratings.com/comview.cgi?GoGoCity.com and http://www.resellerratings.com/vendone.cgi?GoGoCity.com) Be sure to check out the place you're buying from, and shop around a bit.  www.pricewatch.com is nice for finding the best deals, but be careful of high shipping charges you may incur (another good reason to check www.resellerratings.com.  www.axiontech.com has been pretty good to me for the past few years; a friend of mine swears by www.microx-press.com for system components.  Nothing more to say on the components you've chosen, the others have discussed the heck out of it.  I just thought I'd throw my bit in about purchasing computer hardware online.  One last thing, I would suggest buying as much of it from one place as possible, to save on shipping & handling costs.

-d
Also that Modem not on the list from http://www.linux.com/enhance/hardware/hdb.phtml?Category=Modem.  Look it up on Linux.org if you plan to use it with Linux.  I would go with the 5610 as I know it works and is definitely not a WINMODEM!
Another good reason to stick with one place for your parts is to purchase OEM software packs.  I am assuming you will be using Windows on this machine.  I think it is a good idea to pick up as many OEM packs as you can get.  Never know when you may sell system.
OEM = ???????
YOu can get OEM packs from smaller computer stores.  Original equipment manufacturer.  They are much less usually 50% of the price of retail OS purchase.  You might even wait to see if you want to try out the Windows XP which will be out later this year(keeping firngers crossed).
Alright, this is a lot to read through. I will take a close look at everything that has been stated here. With all the information I think I can come up with a good system. Thank you all for your help, and points will be awarded soon.

berg
PB, given everything that has been written in this thread and where berg is apparently going, I think I must disagree with your assessment of OEM (white box) versus retail boxed parts. Very few people know the difference, and most assume that the only thing that's missing is the additional software packages. In a large number of cases, especially with OEM or white box versions of processors, motherboards, video cards, sound cards etc, the warranty is substantially reduced. This is because most of the OEM's that buy them offer their own warranties, and white box increases their profits in order to assume this responsibility. This one of the main drawbacks to procewatch, as it doesn't distinguish the difference. As an example, if you purchase white box AMD or Intel, the warranty is reduced from 3 years to 1. With most sound and video cards, instead of a equivalent replacement, you receive a remanufactured unit. To say OEM is cheaper without defining why, is misleading.

Dennis
So OEM is missing software and most likely has reduced warranties? So this is a mtter of preference?
True berg. Simply said, you can pikcup some great deals on white boxes, but you should know what your after and whether you have the capacity to work around what is not included. As an example, white box motherboards usually (I repeat usually) only come with the MB and drivers, while retail boards give you all of the hardware and software, such as 80 wire ribbon cables etc. Video cards is another example. White box may not include all of the fancy connecting cables for your TV, tape player, cable connection, which means you'll need to find them and then buy them if needed.

Like I said, if you need some specific help, let me know.
I will be keeping and using all the cables from my current system with this new one, or as many as I can. I would however like all the software and drivers for the hardware I buy. This is my first time building a system, so I want it to go as simple as possible. Any tips are greatly appreciated.
Well, if you replace the MB, then use the cable that come with it. This is espcially true if you plan on using ATA66 or 100 drives, as they require 80 wire cables.

Firm up what you plan on doing and then we can go further.
Berg and Dew associates.  My point was missed entirely!  To clear up the matter a bit. I was referring to the OEM version of Windows OS only, I thought I recommended Boxed Retail version of processor before realizing that he was keeping that part.  I actually find that OEM versions of Microsofts OS products seem to contain some added stuff, like My windows 98 SE I bought retail had nothing other than the OS, the OEM versions of 98 SE and 2000 both came with an extra Step by Step CD and cost me 50% of the retail price.

I checked OEM files against the retail and actually found more on the OEM Installation CDs as well as the inclusion of the Step by Step training tool to be worth half the price I paid for the retail:-).  I am assuming you deal in computer configurations.  Do you(dew Associates) sell your customers OEM software or retail packs?  In order to sell them legitimately they must be sold with certain parts.  By staying with one source you know you can legitimately buy the Software packs.  Besides, he will probably keep the same OS he is using now, but if not when he goes to sell this system down the road to upgrade he may find like I did, that having the OS available makes it worth that much more to the second hand buyer.  If he should decide to upgrade he just saved himself the added cost of packaging and retail markup.  What warranties differ in an OS?  I have yet to see any Microsoft product ship with a 3 year warranty.
Please read my post dated 5-14 at 1:29 and you will see aht I said.
Alright, thenk you for the info.

These are my plans:

I am keeping my current hard drive, DVD, Floppy, Monitor, Scanner, Keyboard, Mouse. My Removable hard drive has never been hooked up because the Data cable I currently have for my system has only the connector for the MB and hard drive. It has no connector for a slave drive.
when you speak of ATA66 or 100 drives, I do not know.

I am concerned about how well the parts I have now will work with the system I am building. Like I said, I have never done this before and want it to go as smoothly as possible. I do not want the work done for me, I just need some guidence so I do not make large mistakes. I have done very little with hardware to date, so I would like to learn as I go. I know some theory, but have a lot to learn (as I am sure you have noticed). Because I did buy the system through gateway, I think that the parts I want to keep will work in my new system, since gateway usually puts parts in that they buy, not make. I can go home and take my PC apart and answer any specifics you have. I am so excited about this project and the learning experience. I am currently working on my CIS degree and am in a small systems class at the moment. This is what has inspired me to build a system. I have a large thirst for knowledge, adn right now it is focusing on hardware, and not software. That is why I am more then happy to accept any advice for all of you guru's of the hardware world.

You know the saying "you learn something new everyday". I prefer to learn 100 things new everyday.
pbessman-

Do not think I am ignoring your posts. I am reading and learning very much from the discussions you and dew are having. Feel free to keep it going, or even stray from the topic at hand.

I have given a lot of thought to what was said about getting a system with built in sound and video for right now, and then expanding later. I can deal with that, as long as the board has an AGP slot for the video when I add on, and enough PCI for a sound card to be added. I think that is where they would be added if I remember right?
it's not a question, it's a book ...
PB, in answer to your question, yes we do sell OEM versions of the OS, but only with motherboards as this is the current specifications of the MS contracts.

Berg,

Be very specific about your current hard drive, the DVD drive (is it hardware or software reliant) and the removable drive, including their connection types.
dew-

Where can I get the info you are asking about? Please help me help you help me  :-)
Okay, your hard drive will generally have a model and serial number as would the DVD drive. The external drive likewise, but it would be helpful to know what is being used to connect it, scsi, USB etc.
    I am tyrying to help you formulate your shopping/wish list.  If I were you, I would seriously consider finding  a local dealer that can provide you with the additional parts you need.  Another thing I have noticed with Pricewatch is that while you can find good deals, after you pay for everthing to be shipped, you just ate up your savings.

    I would ask the local dealer what their policies are on warranties and such.  Most smaller companies like Dew said offer little or no warranty.  

     I have found two types of dealers, those who will gladly sell you the most advanced and those who want to keep you afraid of the latest technology.  I will usually by from the person who does not keep me away from the latest technology.  

    Consider this like buying shoes.  Would you rather have a pair that fits snugly, or a pair that is not so snug that you will grow into?  I may be wrong.  But, the person who sold me the snug fitting system did me a diservice by limiting my growth with a system they know I would return to upgrade as soon as I figure out it is too small for my needs.  Unfortunately for them, it will be with another dealer next time.

     Other things to look for are approvals from the BBB as well as knowing some other person who has bought a system from them.  Perhaps you can check your Yellow Pages for computer dealers near you.
This is the problem. I live in a small community where all the dealers are out to make a quick buck. the beggest problem though is that it is next to a military base, and GI's will pay anything. I think my best choices are internet, or going to Kansas City. Either way I need all the advice I can get, and you guys are doing a fine job. My hat is off to all of you.

Thanks
berg
This is the problem. I live in a small community where all the dealers are out to make a quick buck. the beggest problem though is that it is next to a military base, and GI's will pay anything. I think my best choices are internet, or going to Kansas City. Either way I need all the advice I can get, and you guys are doing a fine job. My hat is off to all of you.

Dew-

My drives are all using the standard data cables. Do you need any numbers off the cables or drives? I can tell you that they are not USB. As far as SCSI, I do not know what that is.

Thanks
berg
I agree with pbessman on the local retailer thing - if you have a problem with an online retailer you will (most likely) have to ship the parts at your expense, and have your problem fixed at their convenience.

It's quicker and easier to sort out problems when you can stand in the shop and yell ; ).
d_hall, that may be your experience, but please don't characterize every supplier, OEM or not, based on that experience. We've supported hardware at times when the manufacturers have refused to do so. We currently support issues where the manufacturers, including AMD and Intel don't have a clue as to an answer.

Berg, what I need is make and model for all three of the drives we discussed.

Dennis
Dennis it sounds like your company is to be commended, what I hear from you is rarely followed through on.  I actually dealt a lot on Pricewatch last year when I was in the Chicago area as I could walk in to the shops and pick up my goods.  In some cases I was treated even better.  Especially, when I told them I had seen them on Pricewatch and since I was doing business in their area I decided to drop by.  I developed a relationship with some of these owners and have built several machines for myself and others.  I do it as a hobby and have never had anything fail on me not even the OEM stuff.  I was working on a contract with AT&T in the Chicago Suburbs and was glad I had some  of the contacts I did.  I have had occasions where if I needed something they would cut me a deal so I could make something on the deal as they knew I was using them as a supplier for my clients customers.  I won't mention names here as I see you are a walking billboard, so to speak, for your company.  To make a long story short I was bringing them business they did not have before.  I of course would always refer people in that area to them as they consistently had the cheapest prices on Motherboards and CPUs.  I love building computers.  I am in the process of selling off the ones IO bought last year to get this years models.  I might not get the fastest, but then again I don't want to lose all the money in the deal.  It seems that if you buy the fastest CPU that is available it's price will go down about 30% within six months and then drop another 10%.  That is where I like to sell them off and use the proceeds for the features that are being offered in the current year.  I will probably get some more PIII 1000 Processors as I have bought one and since I helped solve a problem they were having I will be able to get the rest of my processors for my other systems at teh same rate he gives his employees.  I am glad.  My next system will probably be a PIII-1000 dual processor Raid system running the Windows XP when it comes out.  I am doing the tests now and really like it.
Thanks for the info PB. Not to tie up Berg's thread here, but we don't try and be the least expensive as our goals aren't shipping numbers of individual components, but rather fitting machines and components to needs and providing user support. As an example, we were the first to develop drivers for full ATA66/100 support on MB's equipped with the Intel 840 and 850 chips that are using the 82801AA & AB IDE Bus chipsets. Our drivers do not produce the ID26 error in Win2000, and on 840 chipsets drive spec exceeds ATA66. This is why we don't cut prices, as good techs and research cost money.
Don't feel that you are tying up my thread. Feel free to talk amoungst yourselves. I am learning a lot.

I did not have a chance to get the drive specs for you last night dew. I will make sure that I do it when I get home tonight though.

Please continue on with you discussion. This is a very informative thread for me, and possibly anyone who purchases the PAQ in the future.
dew_associates: I wasn't talking about any particular kind of supplier, I just think that problems usually get sovled better, quicker and cheaper in person rather than via phone/mail.

It sounds like you are one of the "good guys" but unfortunately (in my experience anyway) that's the exception rather than the rule.
Berg to answer a question that you had about ATA-100, I figured I would answer the "What is Ultra ATA/66?",first and hoping you will understand that ATA 100 is simply the step to 100 MB/s Data bursts NOT 100Mhz or 66Mhz.  IDE stands for Integrated Drive Electronics.
     Ultra ATA/66, AKA Ultra DMA/66, enhances existing technology by increasing performance and data integrity. This high-speed interface doubles the Ultra ATA/33 burst data transfer rate to 66.6 Mbytes/sec. ATA-100 has raised that level to 100 MB/s.
     The reason DewAssociates is trying to get info on your drive is to help us determine its usefulness here by finding out where on the speed ladder it sits.  We can also determine size and decide whether or not it should be part of your new system.  As higher data transfer rates allow for faster processing of data, you wouldn't want to hold your computer back by slowing down the data.  If the processor can handle it you will notice the speed differences.
     For example, my dad has a Gateway system with a Pentium II-266 Mhz processor that his company bought for him several years ago.  He was going to just give it to me and buy a new system.  He had a SCSI CD burner and a SCSI controller that were both tested as bad.  I had planned to give him an IDE CDR/RW.  He also wanted to add a hard drive, as he had filled up his 3Gb hard drive.
    For Christmas I added a 20Gb ATA-66 hard drive, the CD burner and installed an ATA-66 controller card.  He noticed the speed but wanted to go as fast as his system would allow.  He had me, his little tech buddy there and I was willing to help.  He does not have the best selection of computer stores where he lives, but we found one that deals in buying used memory.  We took our specs and his 32 MB of memory to this store and we made a deal. We replaced that 32MB with 64MB of NEW not used and added an additional 64MB to max his system out at 128MB.  Now he can run any OS that is out there and he can write his programs with the added space and memeory support. Newer systems can handle a lot more RAM by the way.
   
 
The removable HD is a 30 gig Quantum Fireball lct.

I will be right back after I take apart my PC, and get the other drives makes and models.
Looks like your drives are IDE (or ATA, basically same thing). The 20 Gig lct is an ATA-100 drive. I would imagine that yours is also, so a motherboard that supports this would be preferred over having to use an add-on card to see the full potential of the drive.
If you decided to go with an Intel board, these support your drive, though Dennins could probably give you more info about them. I haven't used these boards, so my opinion on them doesn't count.

http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/ea2/ea2_ds.htm
http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/fv/fv_ds.htm
http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/ea/ea_ds.htm

John
The fixed HD is also a Quantum Fireball ltc. The DVD as far as I can tell is an NEC.
Actually, if you look at the link to my current motherboard, the IDE slots say they are commonly used for ATA. So using deduction, I think ny drives are ATA. Maybe? Maybe not?
They are ATA but the speed is what is the issue.  Like I mentioned above they could be ATA 33, 66 or 100.  For the best performance it would be best to get a motherboard that supports ATA 100 natively for further expansion.

You still have not answered my post as where you got such a fast processor with the board you have.  I am guessing it was upgraded and now you want to do it right???
Your motherboard is listed as having UATA 33/66.  That means it can support either 33 or 66 MB/s bursts.  I am starting to think that you may be better off building a second system rather than to scrap one system to build another.  You will end up with additional parts.  I think you would be happeier that way too.  You could have one system as "experimental" as you learn and one that works.
berg, each drive has a serial number and model number. This information would be really helpful in getting you where you want to be. Although, in theory, a second system would be nice, but I don't want to suggest something that might bust your budget. Many OEM's (we included) sell unassembled systems for user assembly, but only you can determine if this is what you need.

Dennis
To answer the processor question, it came with the system. This is the original chip thast came in the cow box. I am not suprised that they built a bad system.

You think I should build a second systme from scratch? Not keep any of the components from my current system? That sounds pretty expensive. Why cant I just do what I planned, and as time goes on replace my HD, DVD and Floppy? What would be the down sides to doing it this way?

Dew-
I will get you the serial numbers as soon as I can. The removable HD was not baught with the system. I only bought it last weekend. It hasn't even been used yet.
>> To answer the processor question, it came with the  system. This is the original chip thast came in the cow box. I am not suprised that they built a bad system.

That's kinda wierd.  I guess maybe they had a glut of faster processors?  Since it could only have been running at 650 mHz tops, I hope it wasn't advertised as an 833?!

If you get a motherboard that supports ATA100, you can upgrade later.

The downside is that you'll have some bits lying around that are not really doing anything, although you could pick up another processor if you see one cheap (swap meet, local paper or something), and as you replace the drives build up a second system.  Given that the motherboard has built-in video, audio and modem, it wouldn't take much to set it up as a working system, which you could keep, sell for a few hundred dollars, or donate to a local school or charity.
D_hall, you're following the kind of thinking I am.  I haet to see homeless computer parts lying around.  It has led me to build over a dozen computers.  I would add parts onto my system until the case was full and then find a good deal on a Motherboard and processor and start all over again.  I am down to 4 computers presently and am looking to uniformly update my systems so that all of my systems will be fairly identical.  It helps me teach others what to do.  However, being a participant on this Experts Exchange I find it useful to have the variety I do have.  Currently, my slowest system is an AMD K6-II 550.  For computer assembly practice I found those systems the best.  They performed well and if I did do something really bad I would not have been out that much money.  The funny thing is I recently have sold some of these systems off and have gotten back all that I put into them and more.  The slowest system I had was a K6-II 400, I set it up as a Linux box and put it on Auction an got a pretty penny for it.  That was why I suggested buying Windows as OEM because it packs neatly with the systems.  And, it gives the purchaser the benefit of not having to buy it retail.
Berg, it just puzzles us that they would sell such a fast processor as a slower one.  How do you know that it is the speed you are saying it is?  Are you positive that it is an 866?  If so, tell us how you came to that idea.  Are you sure that it is not a 650 that you are planning to overclock by putting it on a 133 Mhz front side bus?
The system I bought from gateway was the 866 essential. It said it came with a pentium III 866. Is there a way I can tell on the chip itself? Do you think they lied to me?
My other suggestion was to leave this system as it shipped, it works and if you go about upgrading as you plan to you will end up with a very expensive paperweight.  If you strip components from this system to build another, you will at least end up with an additional motherboard and case to say the least.
I don't think they lied.  When you boot the system what processor does it say is in the system?  If your system does not let you see that info, you may need to enter the setup program or while in Windows, click on the START button and trace up to RUN, then in the box provided type in DXDIAG and hit enter.  This will launch the Direct X diagnostic which will tell you about your processor on the first of its pages.  That will let you see what speed your processor is running as well.

One of my systems here was originally sold as a 66/100Mhz FSB with the ability to adjust the FSB.  When the 133 Mhz FSB processors were released the company added an update to the BIOS which allows it to support the 133 Mhz FSB processors up to a 933 which in reading info on your motherboard may be the case as well.
What cards do you presently have in your system?  If you only have one slot used and would like to make this system run a bit faster by increasing the Disk Drive access speeds I would simply add an ATA-100 controller card and save up my money to invest in the dream system I was hoping for.
I am looking at the system a bit more and find that one of mine is quite similar.  You have the nice feature of two PCI slots.  Mine has none.  Depending on where you are in the country I have some pretty good ideas on what you might want to do.  Seeing as the system you were sold by Gateway is warranted for as long as you own it, I would not tamper with it too much.  The investment you have in this system is worth the support you would get when you need it.

It sounds to me that this is the board that tehy would have used in your system.
http://www.gateway.com/support/manlib/cmponts/sysboard/8505996/05996.htm
I wish I got that good of a board. Unfortunately I did not. I could expand that board much easier thatn the crap I did receive.
That's okay Berg, not a problem. Gateway, Dell and the rest that use proprietary MB's really don't give you much room to work. Strange, but when most of the OEM's looked at the business models for Dell, Gateway, Micron and a few of the others, we saw where it was going, get the a computer, any computer, into the peoples hands. If you really knew how some of those boxes were built you wouldn't but them.

Anyway, back to your issue. I'd love to help you with your project, but all the conversations in the world won't replace info. It's difficult laying out a spec to use current equipment without knowing those drive model numbers. They are on the drive, and it would make doing this a lot simpler and more specific.

Dennis
I will have those for you tomorrow night. I will be in class all of tonight and tomorrow. The floppy and DVD numbers will be the problem, because I will need to figure out how to get them unstrapped. Well, I did just receive my new case, so since I am transferring all the components to the new case tomorrow night, I will be able to get you anything you need. Until then please keep the comments coming. I will be checking and replying to emails although I will not be at my computer.
Why tranfer components before having a MB?
There is a utility you can get from Intel that identifies PIII processors.  You stick it on a floppy, boot with it in drive, and it tells you what chip you have, and whether it is running in spec or not.

http://support.intel.com/support/processors/tools/frequencyid/

Also be wary of getting to far into assembly before you have everything - depending on your case and motherboard, you may find that installing the drives first makes things difficult to do.
I am transferring now, because I need to be able to put my Removable HD in for class. The current case I have is too small to fit anything other then what I currently have. This is just a temporary home while I build the new system. I will be home tonight and then put out the numbers for the drives.
Okay, transferred all my current components to the new case last night. Got everything right the first time. I did figure out that I do use ATA-100 for my devices. I think that I have all the info I need to rebuild this new system, unless there is somethinf I may be missing.
Well at least I can say you have a lot of info to help you. ;-)
Well done berg!
Thank you all for the info. I will be assigning points here shortly.
Just an aside ... in re. to Hard Disks and performance, the news from IBM San Jose in that regard is truly exciting with the new technology announced, so I'd forego getting any hard drive replacements if you're also considering that until ...

The capabity and performance sounds awesome.

Asta

http://www.ibm.com/news/2001/05/21.phtml

Failed to include the link on "pixie dust".

Asta
There will be additional Q's posted for point distribution to other experts.

Thank you all for the great info
And thank you as well!
Thanks buddy!