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Paint Shop Pro-blem ? Please Help!

Posted on 2001-06-20
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Last Modified: 2010-04-06
I?ve spent three days trying to resolve the following.

Basically, I need to create an image with at least 400 dpi which is 181 mm by 55 mm in size.

When I do File > New and specify these dimensions, the canvas size created by Paint Shop Pro is FAR larger than 181 mm by 55 mm. When I do View > Normal Viewing (1:1) it is about five screen lengths wide!

When I reduce the number of pixels per centimetre/inch in File > New, the canvas size is correct.

Surely the resolution should not affect the canvas size of the image?

Anyway, the printers say I must have at least 400 dpi for the image as it is for offline printing.

Why is the canvas size coming out to far larger than I specify in File > New ? How do I get a correct canvas of the correct dimensions with a resolution of at least 400 dpi?


Any advice would be much appreciated. I?ve used Paint Shop Pro for years, but this issue is killing me?

Thank you, thank you, thank you!
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Question by:litmania
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cybermike3d earned 100 total points
ID: 6212282
A picture that is 400 dpi and 181 mm wide is inherrently about 3000 pixels wide. There is no getting around that one. The only thing to do is zoom down to about 1/4 size and work at that level The image on the screen will then be 750 pixels wide and u can work on it. There is no relationship between the screen size and the printing size ... don't worry about it.
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by:weed
weed earned 100 total points
ID: 6212377
400 dpi means 400 dots per inch...or more accurately 400 pixels per inch. But a monitor can only display 72 pixels per inch. At 100% zoom you see ALL the pixels at their native size. When its printed at 400 dpi the pixels will be sqished so there are 400 of them in an inch rather than just 72.
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Author Comment

by:litmania
ID: 6212418
"At 100% zoom you see ALL the pixels at their native size"

Getting the pic. in its proper size now shows me how it will look when it is printed out - and it's not good. See:

http://64.176.72.84/needstouchingup.jpg (image reduced by 50%)

I've tried various effects in Paint Shop Pro to enhance the photograph, but to no avail.

Is there any way of smoothening it, so I can get rid of those grid-like lines other than by rescanning the picture?

Thanks :)
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Expert Comment

by:weed
ID: 6212451
Those blotches are called moire patterns. This picture was scanned from a magazine or newspaper. You can get rid of them by applying just enough gaussian blur to smooth them out, then apply an unsharp mask until youve brought the edges back into focus.
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Expert Comment

by:johnbrewer1980
ID: 6216246
Computers seldom use real life measurements -- BEWARE
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by:TheRedGuy
ID: 6216525
Agree with johnbrewer...

weed's comment that a monitor cannot display more than 72 pixels per inch is not true. A pixel is a logical unit not a physical one. He is talking about 'points', which are 1/72nd of an inch. If a pixel were 1/72nd of an inch, then increasing your display size from 800x600 to 1600x1200 would increase the size of your monitor!!!!!!

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by:weed
ID: 6216561
PPI and Dimension are independant. If you create a 1"x1" canvas in photoshop at 72 dpi with your monitor set to 800x600 you will have a larger canvas than if your monitor is set to 1024x748 because your computer has to cram a larger number of pixels into a finite sized monitor. But your computer still knows that your canvas is 1"x1" and there are still 72 pixels across your canvas and 72 pixels down. Hence 72 dpi. Youve made the assumption that an inch on your ruler is the same as an inch on your monitor which is incorrect. Your computer knows the difference.
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by:TheRedGuy
ID: 6216578
What you are describing is the implementation of a solution to the monitor problem by the developer of an image-editing app. You cannot say that an inch on a ruler is different to an inch on a monitor. An inch is an inch!!! What you are referring to is scaling. This is what occurs on all display devices. There are not 72 pixels per inch. Period. There are 72 points per inch.

There is a difference between a logical unit of measurement (a pixel) to a physical one (an inch). This is what johnbrewer1980 is referring to, I think....
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by:weed
ID: 6216659
Youre misunderstanding how dpi, ppi, lpi, canvas size, etc work but thats ok. Im not here to explain it to you, im here to explain it to litmania. Who, incidentally, has been rather silent. Whats the status lit? Is this all making sense?
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by:cybermike3d
ID: 6216707
like I sed ... the size of the image on the screen is unimportant, you can zoom and pan it to your hearts content ... what is important is that you have the correct number of pixels accross, so that when the printer prints at 400 dpi the image is 181 mm wide. As far as the image quality is concerned ... you should allways try and scan at a higher resolution (the higher the better) and then, soften the image, then IMAGE>RESIZE to the size u want. You should also try and give the image to the printer as a .BMP, because the .JPG fromat results in quality deterioration. Yes, I know its a substantialy larger file so decide if u want to make the tradeoff (maybe u should take the image to the printer on a disk (R/W CD) ... discuss it with the printer, some are happy to accept a .JPG. ... others aren't.
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by:weed
ID: 6216732
Actually most service bureaus will want a TIFF or EPS with an embedded color profile. As far as i know you cant embed a profile into a BMP and TIFF/EPS are the preferred standards for print. Still lossless.
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by:cybermike3d
ID: 6216803
whatever ... like I sed, discuss it with the printer.
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by:TheRedGuy
ID: 6217859
weed,

I'm not misunderstanding dpi, ppi etc. I'm just pointing out that it is not true that a pixel is 1/72nd of an inch and that it is also untrue that a monitor can display only 72 pixels per inch. The physical size of a pixel on your monitor is governed solely by your display mode. At 100%, one pixel in an image will map to one pixel on your screen. Therefore, if you had two images on the same canvas size, the one with more dpi will look larger on-screen. However, they would be the same size on a printer...

I can appreciate that you are trying to help out litmania but my correction is designed to be helpful also. It is not intended to undermine anybody...
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by:weed
ID: 6219048
Youve got it backwards. If you have two images on the same size canvas with different DPI, they will look IDENTICAL on screen at %100 but the one with the higher DPI will look smaller when viewed at print size. However when viewing at print size youre NOT seeing all the pixels because a monitor doesnt have enough pixels to display it. If you try it youll see how it works. If you take a canvas of 3,000x3,000 at a dpi of 1200 and view it at print size your canvas isnt showing 3,000x3,000 pixels at 1200 DPI beause your screen cant show 1200 dpi. Its merely giving you a PREVIEW of the size it will print at by scaling the canvas down. When viewing any canvas on your screen the DPI is irrelevant until you preview its print size. Youll notice it merely changes the zoom level to show the preview and unless youre viewing at %99 or less youre not seeing all the pixels. What youre trying to tell us is that the monitor changes its DPI so that even at %10 a canvas would be displaying all the pixels in the image.
Now, if you have two images, on the same canvas size they will both be the same size on the monitor at %100, at %50 etc etc. The one with the higher DPI will be smaller when previewed at print size but wont display as many pixels on the screen. When printed the image with the higher DPI will print smaller. Again, TRY it and youll quickly understand how it works.
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by:cybermike3d
ID: 6219546
The problem of course originates from the fact that paint shop pro does not have a preview at print size function.
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by:weed
ID: 6219642
Right, though you could figure it out by doing a little math and zooming out to the appropriate %. Thats really all Photoshop's print preview does but it does the math for you. Not that it matters in this case. All litmania needs to know is that viewing at %100 isnt the size its going to print at. Since Paint Shop doesnt have the option you could use the print preview function of your printer driver to get an accurate preview of the print size.
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by:cybermike3d
ID: 6219695
Which is more or less what I said in my first posting --- hey lithmania ... has your question been answered yet ?
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by:weed
ID: 6219794
Yeah well we both posted that in our origional comments. We just ended going around the long way to come back to where we started..heh
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Author Comment

by:litmania
ID: 6221892
Yes, the question has been answered :) Thanks for the detailed elucidation. I appreciate your help!
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by:weed
ID: 6222089
Okey doke then. Go ahead and pick one of the comments, that you feel best explained it, to accept as an answer.
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by:Lobo042399
ID: 11408481
No comment has been added to this question in more than 21 days, so it is now classified as abandoned.

I will leave the following recommendation for this question in the Cleanup topic area:
Split Points between: cybermike3d and weed

Any objections should be posted here in the next 4 days. After that time, the question will be closed.

Lobo
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