Solved

JavaScript  vs.  VBScript

Posted on 2001-06-25
66
1,304 Views
Last Modified: 2013-11-19
I'm currently setting up some machines to support a website and various activities at home.  This is all a learning exercise.  At this time, I am just becoming aware of the uses of JScript and VBScript, but, I'm inexperienced in them.

Would you various Experts, please tell me your own opinions regarding VBScript vs.  JavaScript?

Is one better for Windows or Linux???

The way I see it, perhaps Microsofts VBScript has the edge when it comes to using scripting to control the Windows operating system(s) as well as script web pages and ASP.  I say it has the edge b/c it will more EASILY (better?) be used for administrative activities on Servers or Workstations.

Perhaps the Java Script is a better product for the web in general?  How does it rate with Windows O/S's.  Is it better for Linux servers?

Stuff like that... Please enlighten me based on experiences AND Opinion.
0
Comment
Question by:stvrich
  • 26
  • 12
  • 10
  • +4
66 Comments
 
LVL 22

Expert Comment

by:CJ_S
Comment Utility
To control the windows operation systsem you can also use jscript / javascript. It has the same kind of functions. Javascript however is also for the Netscape browser...you cannot control the system with it (as you put it).

If you only need to develop for IE browsers, you should choose which one to take. If you know one of them better than the other, then go for the one you know best. If not, decide what you want to learn. Browser-unspecific?

Regards,
CJ
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
Keep in mind that scripting is used for MUCH MORE than just the web.

(Ideally, I'll be able to CONTROL my network THROUGH the web more completely by programming for it.)

In Win2k & NT there can be a LOT of remote control and Admin work (including changes in ADSI) that can be accomplished through script.

I just want to know if one scripting language is BETTER for it than the other.

CA Unicenter is a product which is used to Monitor VAST Networks...

And is, as far As I know, primarily VBScript.
(or can JScript substitute?)

It has been said that if you Just KNOW what to script for, you can control, monitor, update and run just about ANYTHING from an NT/Win2k server.

IF you know what you are doing.

So,
As I said, IS JScript just another way of doing what VBscript does?

Or, is VB script going to be better for an MS operating system?
0
 
LVL 19

Expert Comment

by:webwoman
Comment Utility
javascript can run server side or client side, most often it's client side. In most cases, you can write client side javascript that will work on almost all browsers and platforms.

vbscript is pretty much MS specific. Server side vbscript is usually used for asp (active server pages), though asp can be done using server side javascript as well. Client side vbscript is pretty much limited to IE. Same with ActiveX controls, which will let you do just about anything.

Anything that accesses the users computer -- writes files, changes configs, alters any user settings, does pretty much anything that has repercussions beyond the browser window -- will cause a security prompt of some kind. IF you have access to the user's system by other means you can override these, but in most general internet (not inTRAnet) use you will have to get the user's consent to do anything that affects their machine.
0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:msdixon
Comment Utility
stvrich,

when writing stand alone scripts i like using vbscript better than jscirpt. it's a little easier to use. most of the time you can do the exact same thing with both languages, so it's more of a preference rather than one of them being 'better'.
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:bowker
Comment Utility
The decision is probably best made based on what your application will be:

1. if you're designing a web site that will be accessed from several places using more than 1 browser, you'll want to use JavaScript to do some of the client-side work.  You'll need some other language (C++, PHP, PERL, etc.) to do the server-side work such as database access, calculations, DB access, etc.

2.  if you're designing a web site that will be accessed from several places using only MSIE, you'll be able to use either VB or JScript to do some of the client-side work, depending on your comfort level.   You'll still need some other language  to do the server-side work, and you're locking out Netscape, Opera, etc.

In both cases above, you're running client-side code within the browser environment on the client machine ... and (as has been pointed out) you can't do anything with or to the local system  - as a security measure, you don't have access to anything ... and remember that JavaScript is cross-browser whereas JScript is proprietary Microsoft.

3. if you're writing scripts to be run by authorized people using Telnet, you'll have to use VB if that's the only option - JavaScript won't work.  If this is your situation, do yourself a favor and consider C++, PHP, PERL, or some other more capable language, especially if there's an internet vector to the functionality, or there's a  possibility that you will want to move to (or involve) a platform other than some version of Windows.

Finally, if you're doing anything that involves private data, know that no version of Windows is a safe place to store that information if the machine is connected to the internet ... you (and your clients' data) will be much safer on a *NIX system.

Good luck!
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
Is Java-Script going to have a Closer relationship to Java ... the programming language?  (Closer than VBScript... I'm thinking... "yes").

Re:  "Windows is not a safe environment...  "     Yah, I know... but that makes it a "good" administrative tool.   i.e.  you can access it and do stuff remotely (more easily?)  when properly programmed.  Or, so I am told.  (and that's not a euphemism for 'hacking', I have Zero interest in hacking ANYTHING but my own systems... for ease of MY OWN use, and dependability.  (ie, rebooting, controlling, status reporting, and remote modifications... up to and including re-setting up the server(s) ... remotely. ).

I've been looking over a book by Tobias Weltner that seems to be Very Very VBScript-Centric... and it is ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL Windows 9x, NT & 2000.  It's a little too deep for me to understand everything (still) but I FOLLOW what the guy is saying... and I like it.  (as far as the idea of  "MASTERING" windows goes).

And, maybe Win2k will be a "good" product after the 5 year "experiment" called NT-4???  In otherwords, MORE dependable and EASIER to use?  (But more complex  than NT).

It seems you can do absolutely WONDERFUL things with VBScript in a MS operating system.   (which is the whole idea).

Apparently, JavaScript (I understand JScript is MS's version) is a CLOSE second (for controlling MS operating systems)... but, not QUITE as good in MS, as far as "access" within the OS.  

Yet, is there a "SPECIAL" relationship between TRUE java-script and JAVA... the programming language????????

THAT's MY biggest question.   (as a future (???) developer)
IS Java Script better suited for Java Programming?  (or is it PURELY preference?)
I'm interested, ULTIMATELY in being KNOWN as a Java Programmer, (I think) and I'm just wondering WHERE to concentrate my "professional" studies and what skills to emphasise as I develop my "Java Programming" skill.

....... don't tell me...  let me guess...

IF you can handle both scripting languages...   it's good.   Right?  After all, they both have a slant that they seem to be slightly better in certain ways.

( Yes, Java-Script for Both popular browsers, and VBScript for only IE.)

This is the picture I've gathered:

If you are a Network Admin, and want to PROGRAM your Local (windows)  Network and workstations.... get (deeply) into VBScripting your Operating Systems.

If you are a Web-Purist You'll end up using Java & Java script (& any OTHER languages that'll fit into your cranium)...  You will also tend to prefer the UNIX/Linux operating system for your servers.  (Mastering UNIX is yet another topic).

And yes, for Detailed local programming... obviously OTHER languages could come into play as well, depending on WHAT you are creating.

For ease of Use, it's MS/OS with relatively good security... as long as you know WHAT's open....   Oh I forgot... it's filled with unknown and available doors unless it's a stand alone machine.

Please, speak freely of your experiences.

Advise me of any good books that you've liked.   etc.

Or, as Mike Myers would say... "discuss amongst yourselves" if you are so inclined.
And I'll take in whatever you guys have to say... for what I can glean from it.

0
 
LVL 5

Expert Comment

by:djbusychild
Comment Utility
Let's add some diversity to the mix.

I'm a big fan of Python. http://www.python.org/
I know it's not one of vbscript or ECMAscript,
but you said you want to know what scripting
language is cool..


I think you should really check it out.
It's a GREAT scripting language. There have
been modifications to the python interpreter
so that you can accomplish continuation

http://www.stackless.com/

There's also a python module that lets you call
ANY function in a DLL. (simple assembly trick, but
it works great! ) This means you can call any win32
APIs with just that little module.

http://www.nightmare.com/

you can also use python in ASP pages if you install
the python ActiveX script control

http://www.activestate.com/

My apologies, if you're not interested in other scripting languages. =)
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
bowker

I gotta dumb question (pls remember I'm a web neophyte)

Wuts a web vector?

I have seen the phrase before.  But, I'm not really familar with all the industry terms.
What do you mean when you say "wnat to move to or involve another platform".

Are you referring to using something like PHP ...  because of Cross-Platform capabilities that are Inherent in PHP?

If this is dumb... pls be patient and just speaketh the lingo UNTO ME... and hopefully, I'll be suitably enlightened.
0
 
LVL 5

Expert Comment

by:djbusychild
Comment Utility
Well, learning the language syntax isn't a big deal.
You can learn any of the scripting languages aforementioned within a few days of tutorial chugging

Mastering the internals of a language is a whole another story. How exactly the interpreter works, etc...

If you're interested in JAVA programming, then ECMAscript will only help you in the language syntax. It has a simliar grammar. Jscript is Microsoft's own implementation of Sun's javascript destined to be compatible with the language specification of ECMAscript.

VB's strength is in its native support for ActiveX. Yes you can access ActiveX from the other scripts, but it's intrinsic to VB.

I don't think VB is a good language, however. That's just personal opinion. Javascript is supposedly getting better with the latest push fro mozilla, but that remains to be seen.

0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
djbusychild

Speak Away!!!!!!!!!

I'm all ears, (I don't have TIME to read about it all)...  so go 'head & try to convert/convince me!!!

I'm currently "undifferentiated tissue"... and can be swayed.

But, I have the genetic potential to become AnyThing...
0
 
LVL 5

Expert Comment

by:djbusychild
Comment Utility
VB as people above mentioned is MS-centric. If you dive deep into VB then you're cornering yourself. Open up your mind and try stuff out. VB, Java, Python, PERL, Tcl/Tk, Ruby, etc.. etc.. ... If you're a freak like some of my friends are.. even try OCAML... =)

There are gazillion scripts out there. PERL will probably never die for its powerful string manipulation/regular expression tools that are intrinsic to its language. VB will never die cuz it's Microsoft' scripting language. ECMAscript will not die, since there's a pretty big standards body (ECMA) behind it. Python will never die, cuz it's just really cool (my bias ^^)

Not to sure about Ruby... Ruby was hot due to its multinationsl nature and intrinsic Unicode support, but Python has Unicode support now as well ...

Some of the things I like about Python is community support. There are may die-hard python freaks out there including me making stuff for it.. be it C modules or pure python modules... There's something called Jython which uses the syntax of python but calls into JAVA ( the language you want to learn )... generally speaking python code will be shorter and easier to write than pure JAVA. This means you can create REAL JAVA applications using Python.

People write cross-platform games using Python that actually takes advantage of HW acceleration.

http://pygame.seul.org/

Python has Tkinter which routes calls to Tk ( a cross-platform windowing toolkit ) allowing you to quickly prototype windowed applications that are cross-platform.

Python is byte-compiled which means that once you have the byte-compiled output you can run that to bypass the interpreter stage and thus makes it much faster.

Python is available for PC, Mac, Unix, Linux, even Palm.

Stackless python just rocks with truly asynchronous microthreads...

as you can see I can go on and on about python... Don't listen to me... try all the scripts out for yourself.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
djbusychild

Speak Away!!!!!!!!!

I'm all ears, (I don't have TIME to read about it all)...  so go 'head & try to convert/convince me!!!

I'm currently "undifferentiated tissue"... and can be swayed.

But, I have the genetic potential to become AnyThing...
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
oops.

When I hit "refresh" it posted that comment twice
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
djbusychild

That was a most impressive (and impassioned) presentation of   "Why Python is cool"...

The kinda stuff I'm lookin' for.

Thanx for the input
0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:kg_bang
Comment Utility
anything that you can do with vbscript you can do with javascript (ASP, client scripting, activeX, behaviors, COM, windows scripting etc.).

if your goal is java go with javascript, at least you'll get the syntax and a little bit object oriented programming (im not talking about roll-over images scripting).

The only problem with javascript is that almost all microsoft documentations about server-side scripting is with VBScript examples.

0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:bowker
Comment Utility
STVRICH --

I'm sensing a very basic misunderstanding here -- let me know if I'm the one that's off base:

Don't get confused between JavaScript and Java ... other than being able to implement a Java App from  within JavaScript, the two have no connection.  Java is a compiled language you use to write applications, while JavaScript and JScript are scripting languages which extend a client's browser allowing an HTML document to add two plus two (and a lot more).  However, you can't run JavaScript outside the browser environment ...

That's why I suggested you determine exactly what you want to do ... if you're delivering HTML pages to client browsers and need client-side decisions to be made and work to be done, use JavaScript, JScript or VB, depending on how sure you are that only MSIE will be used ( < 100% --> use JavaScript).  If you're trying to code standalone apps to run only on MS machines, use VB if that's your only other choice ... if you're extending the list of options, use C++ ... if you're branching out onto any *NIX server, the whole world opens up to you - PHP, PERL, Python, C++, etc. etc.

And don't dismiss the fact that MS operating systems are insecure ... again: what are you setting out to do?  The inability of MS operating systems to keep out hackers who know how to read MS's own list of published security holes has absolutely nothing to do with your ability to run or control or affect the OS using a stand-alone app.

So my advice is this: answer the question, What are you trying to do?

Bob.
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:bowker
Comment Utility
"... internet vector ..." --

Sorry, I was using vector in the generic sense - if your project has anything to do with the internet at all ...

One other thought: JavaScript is pretty good, but it's not all that smart, and it's not that easy to make it truly cross-browser, especially with MSIE and their proprietary, non-standard-compliant commands and usage.  If you choose C++ or PHP or PERL or some other more robust language, you'll have access to modules to handle just about anything you want to do (DB access, HTTP functions, etc.) - and that's assuming those functionalities aren't built into the kernal of the language, as they are with PHP.

Now I'll shut up for a while ...!

Bob.
0
 
LVL 5

Expert Comment

by:djbusychild
Comment Utility
You know what? Even though I'm not a big microsoft advocate, I'm sick and tired of hearing people saying windows is not secure. Windows is no more unsecure than linux or any other desktop operating system for that matter.

Operating system isn't the only thing that determines the security of your computer. Sure, file system plays a big role in security, and NTFS5 is pretty darn solid.

It really doesn't matter what operating system you have. Making your computer insecure is as easy as installing a buggy application.

I'm not saying windows is better or worse than any other operating system. I just want to make sure that people don't just bash microsoft because they are microsoft.

0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:bowker
Comment Utility
"... internet vector ..." --

Sorry, I was using vector in the generic sense - if your project has anything to do with the internet at all ...

One other thought: JavaScript is pretty good, but it's not all that smart, and it's not that easy to make it truly cross-browser, especially with MSIE and their proprietary, non-standard-compliant commands and usage.  If you choose C++ or PHP or PERL or some other more robust language, you'll have access to modules to handle just about anything you want to do (DB access, HTTP functions, etc.) - and that's assuming those functionalities aren't built into the kernal of the language, as they are with PHP.

Now I'll shut up for a while ...!

Bob.
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:bowker
Comment Utility
DJBUSYCHILD --

I'm not bashing Microsoft, and even if I were, I'm not bashing their OS products simply BECAUSE it's Microsoft.  MS systems are designed differently than *NIX systems, which were designed from the ground up as networking operating systems.  I'll take threads over circles any day of the week ...!  That's exactly what Microsoft itself does - there are NT servers on the frontside of their web operations, but everything behind the firewalls is *NIX ... FreeBSD, the last time I heard.  MS scalability is just not up to the task ... plus, they do understand the PR problems they'll face if the list of credit card numbers that get submitted to them is stolen. Stealing such a list is not a tough thing to do from an MS OS connected to the internet.

There are 4 stages in the life of an MS OS bug:

1. it's discovered, and announced;

2. Microsoft denies (in writing) that there's a security hole, and describes the security hole that doesn't exist on its web site, assuring users there's no problem;

3. Microsoft admits there's a security hole and lists it on their own web site and in Press Releases which promise a patch soon; and

4. Microsoft publishes the patch, and - on their own web site - advises users to install the patch to " ... avoid the following security hole ..."

Now, if I'm over 8 years old, and I can read Microsoft's own warnings, I have a pretty good shot at being able to compromise any data on a few thousand servers before the patch gets installed.

The Open Source community has the ability - and exercises that ability just as frequently  - to fix problems OFTEN WITHIN MINUTES of their discovery.  We decided over 6 years ago that we will "pass" on NT projects; we just don't want the "WE'VE BEEN HACKED" phone calls in the middle of the night.

My two cents worth, and man, is this thread becoming fun ...!

Bob.
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:bowker
Comment Utility
DJBUSYCHILD --

I'm not bashing Microsoft, and even if I were, I'm not bashing their OS products simply BECAUSE it's Microsoft.  MS systems are designed differently than *NIX systems, which were designed from the ground up as networking operating systems.  I'll take threads over circles any day of the week ...!  That's exactly what Microsoft itself does - there are NT servers on the frontside of their web operations, but everything behind the firewalls is *NIX ... FreeBSD, the last time I heard.  MS scalability is just not up to the task ... plus, they do understand the PR problems they'll face if the list of credit card numbers that get submitted to them is stolen. Stealing such a list is not a tough thing to do from an MS OS connected to the internet.

There are 4 stages in the life of an MS OS bug:

1. it's discovered, and announced;

2. Microsoft denies (in writing) that there's a security hole, and describes the security hole that doesn't exist on its web site, assuring users there's no problem;

3. Microsoft admits there's a security hole and lists it on their own web site and in Press Releases which promise a patch soon; and

4. Microsoft publishes the patch, and - on their own web site - advises users to install the patch to " ... avoid the following security hole ..."

Now, if I'm over 8 years old, and I can read Microsoft's own warnings, I have a pretty good shot at being able to compromise any data on a few thousand servers before the patch gets installed.

The Open Source community has the ability - and exercises that ability just as frequently  - to fix problems OFTEN WITHIN MINUTES of their discovery.  We decided over 6 years ago that we will "pass" on NT projects; we just don't want the "WE'VE BEEN HACKED" phone calls in the middle of the night.

My two cents worth, and man, is this thread becoming fun ...!

Bob.
0
 
LVL 5

Expert Comment

by:djbusychild
Comment Utility
Yes, you're absolutely correct in that unix variant OSes have been designed to be a multi-user network operating system from the start. That also makes it dangerous at the same time if you don't know what your doing.

However, you are mentioning many different things here. scalability, stability and security. It doesn't serve well to say that Microsoft is "not secure" period. I can't stand behind its scalability/stability in a server farm situation since I've never administered one before. As far as workstations go, windows 2000 has been pretty darn stable so far along side my linux workstation. ^^

It is true that Microsoft is rather dodgy when it comes to admitting security holes. It is also true that it can be easily compromised once the hole is exposed. But, c'mon that's true for any other operating systems. I think it's even more dangerous for a newbie to install linux on their PC connected to the net. I think you really should be extra careful in setting up your linux box since much more is involved to lock down your box. --;

To give MS a little break, most of the compromises are made through IIS not windows itself... ^^ Not being such a big fan of IIS, I won't even go into my biased view of IIS.

For everyday-joe locking down your system is not that easy. All desktop OSes should really make this easier for the everyday users.

Man are we off-topic. ^.~

0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:kg_bang
Comment Utility
bowker, some comments:

> JavaScript is pretty good, but it's not all that smart, and it's not that easy to make it truly cross-browser...
1. Javascript as a language is pretty cross platform. Accessing the DOM and working with DHTML is the problem.
2. Since client-side VBscript is for IE only, you dont have to worry about cross platform, you just can't write vbscript for netscape.
3. What do you mean "not all that smart"??? also C++ is not "smart" inside a HTML page... Javascript is a LANGUAGE, the environment makes it smart or not. the reason you can access DB from C++ is because the environment provides you modules to access the DB. there is ALMOST no connection to the language.

>If you choose C++ or PHP or PERL or some other more robust language, you'll have access to modules to handle just about anything you want to do (DB access, HTTP functions, etc.)
1. Again, there is no connection to robust langauge, especially in this case, today you can access DB ,open sockets, access queues etc with JavaScript and VBScript.
2. C++ or PHP or PERL are not client-side scripting. This all sentence is not so clear to me (you're saying that javascript is not so truly cross-browser and he should use C++/PHP/Perl????)

>Don't get confused between JavaScript and Java ... other than being able to implement a Java App from within JavaScript, the two have no connection...
Except syntax, some object oriented capabilities, error handling and other small things there is no connection between them, you're right.

>Java is a compiled language you use to write applications, while JavaScript and JScript are scripting languages which extend a client's browser allowing an HTML document to add two plus two (and a lot more).  However, you can't run JavaScript outside the browser environment ...
DHTML is what making the page dynamic (HTML is the GUI for javascript in the browser as AWT for java), Javascript can run on the server as stand alone application, activeX, EXE, COM, CGI etc.

stvrich, for more information about the difference between javascript and vbscript:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?URL=/library/en-us/dnclinic/html/vbsvjs.asp
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:bowker
Comment Utility
Well, just to stay off topic for a bit ...!

" ...if you don't know what your doing ..."  
Sorry, I can't accept that as a reason to just go ahead and rely on an OS that's not secure.  If you're going to accept the responsibility of receiving private information, you must also accept the requirement that you store that data securely.  And an MS operating system - yes, with IIS - connected to the internet is a virtual sieve.

" ... it's even more dangerous for a newbie to install linux on their PC connected to the net ..."  
Sorry, again, I can't accept that as a reason to install and rely on an insecure OS.  Buy a book, hire a friend, use a virtual hosting site ... something, anything, but don't abrogate your responsibility to provide safe storage of provate data.

"For everyday-joe locking down your system is not that easy."  
Same arguement ... every SunOS and Linux and Unix and HPUX guru was an everyday-joe not too long ago (when did Linus T. start on Linux, 5 years ago?!?).

We have a responsibility ... if we're going to tell people with a straight face that e-commerce is safe, that the waiter in the restaurant last night represents a greater risk to your CC balance than buying on my site, then we have to be grown up about this and treat that data with respect.  And even MySQL on a Linux box is one hell of a lot more secure than IIS on NT or 2K.  And even XP, from what I hear ...

All that being said, we run Win98 boxes here at the office and at home.  We have a Linux box behind the firewall which we use for PHP and MySQL development, but otherwise they're all Windows.  Wouldn't have it any other way ...

Now: what did STVRICH want ...?!?  Have we blown his confidence all to pieces here, and totally confused him with our techno-babble?!?  Sorry ... well, not really ... !

Bob.
0
 
LVL 5

Expert Comment

by:djbusychild
Comment Utility
> Sorry, I can't accept that as a reason to just go ahead and rely on an OS that's not secure.  

you misunderstand me. That's not a reason to do anything. It's just that you can't just simply say that *u*x is secure and windows is not.

> Sorry, again, I can't accept that as a reason to install and rely on an insecure OS

again, that was not a reason to do anything.

> Same arguement ... every SunOS and Linux and Unix and HPUX guru was an everyday-joe not too long ago

well, everyday-joe = somebody who just bought a computer from compusa because they told the person that they can "do" e-mail and can't tell a difference between a ram and a cpu.
I think if you call yourself a "guru", then it must have been a while since you were like an everyday-joe

all systems are as secure as the person who administers it. sure the degree as to how secure they are out of the box varies, but it really doesn't matter if you have an allegedly full-proof system if your administrator installs a buggy server with "undocumented features" in it. --;
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:bowker
Comment Utility
kg_bang --

Your comments and phraseology are more precise than mine ... I agree with most of what you said.  But please take  what I said in context - what is poor STVRICH really trying to do here?  Let's get back on thread:

1. do you want to deliver HTML requiring client-side work to MSIE only,  on Windows only?  Use whichever language "seems" comfortable to you, VB or JScript or JavaScript ...

2. ... more than one browser on Windows only? Use VB or JavaScript ...

3. ... more than one browser on more than one OS? Use JavaScript ...

4. do you want to write apps that don't require a browser context to run on Windows only? Use VB or Java (or maybe JScript, but why?)

5. ... on more than one OS?  Use something else - PHP, PERL, Python, C/C++, ... IMHO, make your selection in that order (PHP first, for me, because all those modules and miscellaneous saddlebags required by the other languages are built in).

In this light, in this context, I stand by what I said ... Anyone want to correct numbers 1 - 5 above?  Are we having fun yet?

Bob.

0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:kg_bang
Comment Utility
In general i agree with you. I just want to add few comments...:)

> ... more than one browser on Windows only?
Use JavaScript (I'm almost sure netscape supports only javascript)

> do you want to write apps that don't require a browser context to run on Windows only? Use VB or Java (or maybe JScript, but why?)
Because it's easy, quick, you have tons of documentation about writing WSF (Windows scripting files) using jscript/vbscript/perl and you dont have to know C++/Java/VB...

and one last thing regarding stvrich's original question:
The main (and only...) advantage of VBscript when writing windows scripting is that most of microsoft documentation has VBScript examples. In Jscript you'll have to guess what is the exact name of the component and its methods (javascript is case-sensitive) and if you'll have a problem it will be very hard for you to find help.

My suggestion is to combine the two languages (in case you're going to write only for windows) and get the advantages from both sides.

0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:msdixon
Comment Utility
meanwhile, back on the ranch, poor stvrich hasn't got a clue about what scripting language to use...

i hear mention of PERL, and i just gotta comment. my last project (6 months or so) was an intranet extension on unix servers (fine, no big deal, although i'm a win 2k server type of guy), running netscape enterprise server (again, it worked great), with an oracle database (i must admit, there was a lot more work using oracle as opposed to sql), and the server side language they chose was PERL. people say perl can do ANYTHING... and they're probably right, but as far as web based server-side scripting goes, it's not feasable to use perl any more. i can do the same in 1/3 of the time using vbscript or javascript and asp than i can with perl. they should have used jsp with servlets. if you want to learn a language that's not going anywhere, i would have to say java is the way to go (not a scripting language mind you).

as far as scripting languages.... well, that depends on what you're doing. if you're using asp, learn vbscript. a lot of the stuff with asp is a whole lot cleaner/easier with vbscript instead of jscript.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
You guys SLAY me!
Good discussion.     :-)

RE: TECHNOBABBLE... don't worry, I NEED to hear this stuff, and you guys are just confirming a lot of the FEELINGS I've got about this stuff.  (And you have the actual EXPERIENCE!) I just don't have a LOT of experience with ANY single area of it.  I just want to get more confirmation of Where I "think" I should concentrate my focus (foci?) going forward.  I already have a pretty good idea.

JavaScript vs. Java  : likewise, don't worry, I know the difference (basically).  I'm just wondering if there IS a better/worse relationship between Java and Java Script.  (kinda like the affinity of MS O/S's and VBscript... obviously, VBScript is-indeed the way to go when administering MS O/S's)  I'm just wondering if JavaScript is going to have a "happier" (more capable & bug-free?) relationship with Java-the-language, than VBscript.

"EXACTLY... what I want to DO...?"

Uhhhh,  I dunno...  

I think, technically, I'll be MAKING A MESS... is what I want to do.  (it sure won't be a Business Enterprise)

:-)

I just want to begin INSTALLING the basic functionality... and LEARN how to work with it.  Back it up, Improve it, & make it more secure.  Practice for the Big Leagues.


It's a home network, so I can BEAT-IT-TO-DEATH, annnnnnnnnnnnnd I fully expect this to be HORRIBLY insecure.  (at least at first with the MicroSquish operating system beginnings)I imagine I'm going to run personal web server on Win98 and hang a sign over it saying "Hackers Enter HERE..." with a big yellow flashing arrow.  (apache and IIS experiments later).

What I'm shooting for is "SETTING UP STUFF" to practice the basics.  I have enough machines to do quite a bit.

The PROFESSIONAL goal is to just have something like a BEAWeblogic server or Tomcat, DO Some JSP (both remotely and onsite) and be doing my HTML and Basic java programming practice (again, remotely & onsite).

I also want ACCESS, Access, access.

I WANT to try to create a web page to ACTUALLY perform some basic checks on the "servers"... maybe even bounce'em... maybe RUN scripts for administrative purposes.

Do I KNOW what I'm talking about?... BARELY.

All I know is, like I said, I WANT to HACK my OWN network.

If ONE avenue of access is down.  I want backup.
I want to be able to GET IN, BOUNCE and or modify machines, and then RESTART.

Yah, I'm dreaming... but, what the hay...


Yes, I'm talking about making SURE the network is OPEN.  And no, I don't WANT to have UNINVITED visitors, but, security is secondary at the moment.  (security will increase as I learn to Implement it properly).
I want access through the web, over the LAN from machine to machine, with or without dial up or broadband.  i.e. if one doesn't work, HOPEFULLY the OTHER will provide me access, to "fix" what "broke".

I promise you, it WILL be a mess.

But, I figure if I start hacking at my own systems, install a Linux box or two, work with Win2k a little...I can learn to provide myself the access and control I need without having to ask some monkey to bounce a box for me... MOST of the time.  And hopefully, I can learn to APPLY the proper security.

I'll write more later.
Lunch is over.

Thanx guys, the discussion is beautiful.

By all means, continue.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
I agree with kq bang

It looks like I'm going to have to know both vbscript AND java script.

UNLESS I'm a specialist in just java / javascripting

It's probably good to learn (at least a little) about both at this stage and hack at their uses.

It seems inevitable.

IF I end up working in a place where I'm a LAN administrator of a windows network, I'll be benefiting from the vb scripting.  AND it doubles for web work.

bowker,

I do see the USE of Javascript... I've LURKED on some of the HTML exchanges on this website, and I have observed how MANY TIMES a web developer has some strange problem applying a solution to a NetScape browser only to have it solved by JavaScripting his own solution.

so, as is repeatedly pointed out to me, I should at least have a PASSING familiarity with javascript for the cross-browser component (of the vector).

But so far, no one is telling me anything which says JAVAScript is THE best way to go, and actually vbscript allows you to more easily use "features" (hehheheheh hahahah) of the MS operating system.

So, I'm betting concentration on VB script will increase the "size" of my tool kit more than java script proficiency.

I'm also betting there is going to be a HUGE gaping hole in skills when it comes to future LAN administration.

There are THOUSANDS of so-called mcse's who are highly skilled at making NT4 work...  but probably couldn't program their way out of a paper bag.

These guys, unless they become more skillfull (junior programmers) will probably become what we call

DESKTOP TECHNICIANS and printer repair men.....  given their skill sets and hardware knowledge.

Your programming skill is what will set you apart.

Not an mcse (or even a SCJP)   (but, I'm not knocking certification... heck, I probably should GET the paper ASAP).
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
RE:  Python, Perl, and TCL... etc.

Today, I was chatting with one of our MainFrame guys...

IBM apparently is QUITE WELL on it's way to modernizing and gaining ground that was just Client Server a little while ago.

They have "Enterprise Servers" now.
The mainframe guys I know are working with Java GateWays, and Web Pages...!

The fella I was talking to (a Supervisor of the MainFrame group) was telling me he sees our company migrating a great deal of the Client Server stuff to the Big (new) Iron.  

!

He also told me that the New IBM O/S 390 ver. 2.7 is ...   UNIX

And, I cannot help but notice how IBM has taken Linux under it's Wing!

Ergo...  I'll bet the SERIOUS enterprises of tomorrow will have Big Iron at the heart and SOLID workstations based upon Linux...  (or... well implemented Win2k BEHIND Unix firewalls)

By the way, the company I work for OWNS many companys and provides technical support for them.  (I'm a "Relationship Manager" in the support chain)

Also, there is (of course) a heavy web component to many of the businesses.

And the managers are (of course) looking at the bottom lines.  So, I'm thinking that all the STRESS that this heterogenous network is causing is making management look long and hard at WHY certain problems and weaknesses in systems exist.

We are not talking SMALL business.  I'm referring to continental and global scale.
And it's all KLUDGED together with any Darn technology you can think of.
It's a hodgepodge, and a nightmare...  I frequently call a Tech and he's never even HEARD of the server I'm referring to.  THAT's the kind of place I work in.

I KNOW that if my next job is a small/medium business, it may ALL be Win2k (or NT4).
But the serious stuff is still IBM... but now IBM is adding client / server to it's toolkit.
*NIX's in action here.

See where I'm headin' with this?

I DO also realize that Win2k may POSSIBLY be a contender in the DATACENTER...

So, being a MASTER of the Windows 2k O/S would be a very useful thing.  I don't think too many common MCSE's will be able to fully UTILIZE win2k...

from what I gather.

But, programmers will.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility

RE:
do you want to write apps that don't require a browser context to run on Windows only? Use VB or Java ...


That's why I'm thinking VBscript.

It's Web/ MS-OS/ and will stand alone.

Triple duty baby.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
RE:  writing apps for browser context vs. NON-browser context.  (and PHP)

I think I see what you boys are saying.

What I ... am saying is this...

Being a future Web/Net Admin (extraordinaire....)  I'm thinking in terms of Planting "Seeds" on my workstations and servers.

Programs that when triggered can do things that I cannot from the web or over the LAN.
(this is all about MY OWN access, remember?)

So , yes, the languages you could BEST use for that would interest me.

It sounds like PHP would be my next BEST candidate.  ("all those modules")

It SOUNDS like you guys are saying I can use it for Web, and for Just plain old Local programming of ANY (?) custom type...?

0
IT, Stop Being Called Into Every Meeting

Highfive is so simple that setting up every meeting room takes just minutes and every employee will be able to start or join a call from any room with ease. Never be called into a meeting just to get it started again. This is how video conferencing should work!

 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
RE:  data bases

IF I can, I will "throw up" MY SQL and attempt some rudimentary use of it.
That's all I'll say about it b/c I just have NO DB experience what-so-ever.

I can see me typing away... book in hand.

But my primary goal is to do the basic web programming and practice the java.



0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
The basic skill set then shall be...............

Java
PHP
VBscript
HTML
...  and Some SQL would be nice(???)

Win2k O/S  
Linux

A resume that reads with something about these skills, (combined with my hardware background and basic I.T. exposure) should see me in a good programmers direction.

And IF I can actually implement my own halfway decent website which EXHIBITS the fundamental skills...  My resume should be complete enough to Get me IN to a good position....  somewhere.

Emphasis to be on Java... going forward...  

I think.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
Right now I have NO specific tasks in mind.
Just the general picture of what I'm HOPING to create here.
(as I said, it WILL be a mess at first ... just THROWN up... but hopefully functional)

I myself, was wondering WHAT languages I should try to focus on.  (Going forward)  to increase my general usefulness in the I.T world.  And to try to implement ON my machines for demonstration purposes and skill building.

Any further comments & suggestions?
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
What am I trying to DO????   (learn)  (and ALLLLLL those languages don't make it easy to KNOW what to learn).

I will want to demonstrate Browser context and NON-Browser context.
Also applications and applets
Other applications (of my own creation)  with other languages are a plus.
A data base is a plus.

A decent looking website is a plus.
Backup and Administrative CONTROL is a plus.

Etc Etc Etc.

What am I trying to DO????

DEMONSTRATE that I have fundamental awareness and skills and can be HIRED.
But I have no specific request for assistance with a specific problem .... yet.

I'm thinking I want to create a technical web page for my own (Lan Administrative) use.
It will have basic graphics and statistics.
It will have some simple controls over machines.  (if only rebooting)
It may possibly use some primitive form of data  base (just to say I did).
I may put LOG files on it, Network traffic statistics, dial up and broad band statistics...
who knows?  I will try to give myself as much access to my own machines as possible over the web...  by hook and by crook.

Then there's the PC anywhere,  VNC, Timbuktu... methods.
THOSE "remote administrative methods" will be able to benefit heavily from Windows Batch file programming and VB Scripting.  So I can do "cool tricks" with my machines for demonstration purposes.

I've been an electronics hobbyist for a while, and there are some other cool things I have in mind that maybe I can do over the web...

This is just a general question about (web) programming that I'm throwing out to you guys.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
So, I think VB script is the winner.


Feel free to tell me what you know, think and feel about other languages tho'.
0
 
LVL 19

Expert Comment

by:webwoman
Comment Utility
I can tell you the way I went, and why...

HTML/javascript. Works in just about everything, on the CLIENT, so you don't need server software to check it. Don't need any special kind of server to host the pages -- any free space, even AOL, will work. Lots of stuff to copy and change, so you can learn from that, lots of tutorials, lots of books -- basically, lots of cheap stuff.

next step...
vbscript/asp. Runs server side, so you have to be sure the server will support it. Lets you do databases, lots of examples around, lots of tutorials, lots of books. Requires a server that supports it, but PWS (personal web server) will run it, and that's free (do you see a pattern here? ;-) ). Server space can be found either free or very cheap to experiment. Can handle forms/send mail pretty easily, easier than writing your own perl script (but not as easy as copying one from somebody else). Pretty scalable, you can use Access (which a lot of people have) for your databases to start, and move up to SQL later.

then I'd go to perl, php, etc. Java doesn't really fit in this scenario, it could be there, but I don't have time for it right now. I'm concentrating on the database end of things right now, so asp is good. If I needed to develop my own apps, rather than just grab data, I might be more into java.

My $.02... may not fit your situation at all.
0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:kg_bang
Comment Utility
You're confusing me... :)

I'll try to summaries it

1. Client side:
  1.1 Javascript and HTML - Although it's hard to write it fully cross platform, it is your only choice (VBscript will not work on netscape browsers) and it's very popular so you'll be able to get more help.
  1.2 VBscript and HTML - you can do it but it will work only on IE
  1.3 Java applet - Except all the disadvantages in developing java applets (and i dont want to start a discussion about it...:) It will be cross platform but it's harder to learn and will take you at least twice the time to write (unless you're a very good java programmer).

2. Server side (Windows):
  2.1 CGI
    2.1.1 ASP using VBScript - Very popular, very easy to use, tons of books, sites and any other help you'll need.
    2.1.2 ASP using Javascript - Also good although not too much documentation as VBscript.
    2.1.3 Perl - Last time i've wrote perl scripts was a long time ago, i know that they have libraries for accessing DB/File system etc.
  2.2 NON-browser context
    2.2.1 WSF using VBscript - You can do almost everything (especially in W2K), most of the examples you'll find in MSDN site will include VBscript examples.
    2.2.2 WSF using Javascript - You'll have to struggle to make it work. you can find NOTHING about working with windows components and javascript. It takes all the fun from programming but it's a great language!
    2.2.3 WSF using Javascript and VBscript - Use all the great features of javascript and work with windows components using VBscript.

This is not a full list of technologies/languages you can use, it is only my opinion and i think it will give you the basics to go later for more advanced stuff.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
forgive me for being "dumb" but this discussion is (I think) the first time I've conciously noticed the WSF reference.

(SEE !   THIS is why I wanted you guys to talk to me!!!)

Pls elaborate a little more on WSF (is this kinda like batch filing for Windows?)
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
WebWoman:

Your 2-cents is worth a million.
This is the Techno-Relationship (heirarchy?) stuff I need to hear.
It helps me put the software relationships in perspective.  And helps me paint a picture  in my mind of where certain skill can lead me.  As I said, there is SOOOOoooooo much software (and hardware) out there...  it can be very confusing.

I have a GOOD picture of what's going on in I.T., I just wanna CONFIRM and Sharpen my feelings and orientation.  ...  and GET somewhere.... with my personal training.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
kq bang:

Your Confusion:
RE: "client side".   I think I understand what you guys are saying about
JavaScript vs VBscript here.

What I'm throwing out to you (now) is:  VBscript serves WIDER purpose
than JavaScript.  And, I am not necessarily (for MY purposes) referring
to creating "pretty" web pages.

It MAY be, that for MY OWN purposes, I will have to create a few Front
HTML pages that are indeed "pretty" and well contstructed...

IF for instance I DO want CROSS-Browser functionality for some kinda
Hair-Scary "remote administrative" access from ANY browser... (or for ANY other purpose that does not translate well to NetScrape).... I realize that I MAY have to have a section on the HTML page that is VBScript, and a section that is JavaScript....   (so
there is NetScape functionality) Again, maybe not pretty.

Or even....  "Click Here".....  to go to a page that is ONLY Java Script
for NetScape browsers.

That's IF .... I'm having a problem implementing "something" in a
NetScape browser.


RE:  applets

I think I hear you.   the World (wideweb) ain't ready yet.
:-)

I'll keep that in mind.  But still be hacking at it from time to time as
part of my "experimenting".

and last but NOT least:
2.2.3 WSF using Javascript and VBscript - Use all the great features of javascript and work with  windows components using VBscript.

I like this comment the best.

As you guys can appreciate... I NEED to LEARN something.
Demonstrate the Knowledge.
And LEVERAGE that knowledge for the best forward movement.  (More Money)

And not go down useless paths.  (I know... I know....... it ALL serves a purpose)

I have had guys say to me:  "Learn Java, Learn Java, Learn Java..... get Certified, you'll make such GOOD money"...

Well... I KNOW that...   I've heard all the HYPE too....  I have NO interest in being a certified MORON.

But to be SOLID.... you've GOT to know the itty bitty details of HOW to be a good java programmer (or at least how to go about solving "problems").  And a Certified MORON is still a MORON....  I work with Plenty of MORONS who are smart... and I don't wanna BE one of them.  I
can get certified... and still have NO CONFIDENCE that I can get a job 2 months from now.

OR....  I can remain UN-Certified... WORK on trying to CREATE SOMETHING.... while Learning Java and some good scripting and incidental stuff.... (be more confident that I have the Big Picture) and STILL go out and get a job in it.

THAT seems to fit my image of myself better.

The devil is in the details.

So, before I go marching around as Sun CERTIFIED.... I just wanna be able to make some @#$%^ web pages WORK.    (input & output, Dynamic stuff, applications communications...) ... doing some BASIC stuff and
setting the stage for my FURTHER learning when I DO land that (junior)programmers position.  (or (junior) site administrators position.

Know what I mean?   I'm orienting myself for Launch Here.

And I'm working with MY OWN hardware.  (Smashing and Bashing my own "website")

0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:kg_bang
Comment Utility
for client side you dont have to write everything twice (VBScript and Javascript). There is nothing that you can do with VBScript that you can't do with Javascript (it's not like server side where VBscript has more power). For HTML pages go with javascript. If you need i can point you to good sites.

What is Windows scripting files (WSF) (i've copied it from the Windows scripting Host help):

Microsoft? Windows? Script Host is a language-independent scripting host for ActiveX? scripting engines. It brings simple, powerful, and flexible scripting to the Windows 32-bit platform, allowing you to run scripts from both the Windows desktop and the command prompt.

Windows Script Host is ideal for non-interactive scripting needs such as logon scripting, administrative scripting, and machine automation.

MSDN scripting homepage: http://msdn.microsoft.com/scripting/default.htm?/scripting/scriptlets/default.htm

Administering Windows through Windows Script Host (few examples):
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnmind99/html/adminWSH.asp


If you need help to get started (examples, questions etc.) post your email and i'll try to help you.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
OHHHHHhhhh WSH.

Yah I know what that is.

Some of the nomeclature's just new to me, that's all.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
Now, a final question please.

Pretend I'm a Linux admin...
Pretend I also have an apache web server...

What are my core languages?  (besides Shell Scripting?)

The same ones we've BEEN discussing?
HTML
JavaScript/VBscript  (yes, NetScape... gotya)
PHP

????
any other top choices for Linux?
0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:kg_bang
Comment Utility
Perl
0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:msdixon
Comment Utility
and as far as web development goes you CAN use perl, but a better option might be jsp. jsp was designed for web development whereas perl was designed to parse through server logs... and it's also 13 yrs old. and yes, that does matter to me. it's too archaic.
0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:kg_bang
Comment Utility
age is not an argument in this case, we're not talking about PL-1... Perl can handle anything PHP will (at least for basic functions)

0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:msdixon
Comment Utility
the point is not 'can it be done using perl', but rather what's the BEST tool... and frankly perl isn't.
0
 
LVL 5

Expert Comment

by:djbusychild
Comment Utility
python
0
 
LVL 5

Expert Comment

by:djbusychild
Comment Utility
don't look over shell scripting...
learn AWK , SED
0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:kg_bang
Comment Utility
so msdixon, what is the best tool? and what perl is missing?
0
 
LVL 5

Expert Comment

by:djbusychild
Comment Utility
I think what msdixon means is that PERL doesn't do stuff like mix html with code, etc... the language syntax of PERL is not very novice-friendly either compared to JSP. I'm guessing that's what he means by PERL not being the "best" tool for web development.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
Djbusy...

Gotchya (& python noted)

Is it possible for me to give each of you guys 50 pts...?
(and How do I do it?)

I appreciate you all taking the time.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
If you guys want to continue to discuss, debate and fight for the merits of your languages... by all means please do.  Get technical and let me just "listen" to it and absorb it.  I'm assuming you feller's (& Ladies) are individual "hackers" of your choses fields.

As I said, thank you for taking the time to read & debate this stuff.  But, you are helping me to feel SURE about what I, myself am thinking.
0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:msdixon
Comment Utility
kg_bang,

what i do like about perl
print qq{places everyting in quotes, but still prints out a quote " without having to escape it};
print <<HTML;
<b>here's my html</b>
continued
HTML # now it ends
hashes (although vb & vbscript have somehting "similar" with a dictionary object, they're not quite as easy to use

what i don't like about perl
syntax (partially) -- it's loosely similar to c, c++, java, javascript but it's more difficult to write due to it's archaric nature (sorry, i can't think of any specific examples right now)
there are 50million ways to do the same thing, therefore, it's difficult to read someone else's code
poor error messages
cramped code -- most perl developers think it's cool if they can fit 500 lines of code into 50, but it becomes unreadable

what is perl good for
regular expressions
regular expressions
regular expressions

what isn't perl good for
web development
application development (c, c++, java, or vb are better suited)
0
 
LVL 5

Expert Comment

by:djbusychild
Comment Utility
=)

I'm asking you guys to give python a look-see. you will not regret it. I have written hardware accelerate games, native win32 apps, COM objects, Tk GUI apps, CGIs, socket servers, clients, mundane sys-admin duty scripts, native JAVA apps, stand-alone executables, all in python.
0
 
LVL 5

Expert Comment

by:djbusychild
Comment Utility
I'm not saying python is the "best tool". I still write core modules that need blazing speed and need to get close to the metal as possible in C. I still write COM objects in C++, but for stuff speed is not too critical python is simply among the best tools. "best" here meaning that you can create something that does exactly what you want in much less the time and the code is much more readable in my opinion (although that really depends on who writes it).

0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:kg_bang
Comment Utility
I think that the sentenct "Perl is good for regular expressions" is an old cliche (old as the language). I don't know when was the last time you've developed something in perl but you should check it now. They've added a lot of useful libraries (also for web development).

I agree with you about two things, syntax and the "500 lines of code into 50"...

The main reasons i think perl is a good start is because you dont have to compile it, you have tons of examples (cut and paste) and it will work on windows and unix with small changes (unless you're using win32 components in your script).

0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:msdixon
Comment Utility
djbusychild,

yes, i heard that python is pretty good... i'll check it out this afternoon if i get time.


kg_bang,

i still have to disagree. i think java/jsp would be a better start. yes, java has to be compiled and jsp is a pain to set up on a windows box. other than that, it's a better cross platform server side language to learn.

enough from me, i got deadlines to meet.
0
 
LVL 5

Expert Comment

by:djbusychild
Comment Utility
kg_bang, you should really think of the fact that PERL is good at regular expression as a good thing. It is in fact VERY good at regular expression. It is true that PERL isn't ONLY good at regular expression. PERL is kinda evil in a cool way. I could probably write many of the string manipulation routines that span several line in VB and shrink it down to a couple lines or something. That's not neccessarily good since it destroys readability.

I don't think you can say that the fact that PERL is not a compiled language is its strong point. That's true of all interpreted languages. It's a strong point for all of them. If you want to sell PERL I think you should bring out other qualities of the language. ;)

I'm unsubscribing from this discusson. =)

stvrich, to give points to different people just post new questions with the title "XX points for KG_BANG", etc... and they will put up a comment and you can accept that comment as an answer thereby giving those people points.
0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:kg_bang
Comment Utility
the fact it is not a compiled language is strong in case you want to start coding without to much hustle.

stvrich, we got way off the original topic, you should think what is the best direction and go for it. If you need any help please let me know (kinkarm@hotmail.com).

Delete this question and save your points for more specific questions (If it's ok with all the other experts in this thread).
0
 
LVL 19

Accepted Solution

by:
webwoman earned 50 total points
Comment Utility
It's fine with me... but the question should definitely be PAQ'd -- there's a ton of good info here.

But we all contributed to it, and it's not fair for stvrich to have to cough up all his/her points for this one question -- there will be plenty of other questions later on.

And besides, I think we all had fun defending the directions we took in this field... all of them right, and all of them different. ;-)
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
Yes,

I thank all you guys.

I'm at work right now... I'll close this one, and assign the 50 pts for this discussion thread to Web Woman (last commentor).  And will create points assignments ASAP for all of you.

0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:stvrich
Comment Utility
If y'all don't come-n-git yer points within a week. (next Friday)  I'll delete the offers.

Thank you all once again.
0

Featured Post

How to run any project with ease

Manage projects of all sizes how you want. Great for personal to-do lists, project milestones, team priorities and launch plans.
- Combine task lists, docs, spreadsheets, and chat in one
- View and edit from mobile/offline
- Cut down on emails

Join & Write a Comment

Preface This article introduces an authentication and authorization system for a website.  It is understood by the author and the project contributors that there is no such thing as a "one size fits all" system.  That being said, there is a certa…
Shoutout to Emily Plummer (http://www.experts-exchange.com/members/eplummer26.html) for giving me this article! She did most of it, I just finished it up and posted it for her :)    Introduction In a previous article (http://www.experts-exchang…
This tutorial will teach you the core code needed to finalize the addition of a watermark to your image. The viewer will use a small PHP class to learn and create a watermark.
The viewer will learn the basics of jQuery including how to code hide show and toggles. Reference your jQuery libraries: (CODE) Include your new external js/jQuery file: (CODE) Write your first lines of code to setup your site for jQuery…

744 members asked questions and received personalized solutions in the past 7 days.

Join the community of 500,000 technology professionals and ask your questions.

Join & Ask a Question

Need Help in Real-Time?

Connect with top rated Experts

16 Experts available now in Live!

Get 1:1 Help Now