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Unable to install win98

Posted on 2001-06-27
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Hello Experts

I do not know what's going on, let me state that first!
I just reassembled an old gateway Pentium-200mmx with 64megs system that been down and apart since I built a new system and had removed the hd, cd burner & ZIP100.  I put it back together with the original 2.5gig western digital hd, floppy, 12x mitsumi cd, just as I brought it from Gateway in 1997, I did not change any cards on the mobo. Originally the system came with WIN95 installed but I was running win98 before I removed the components mentioned above. I just want to start out fresh and load a few kids programs so they can have their own system to work with.

Now the problems
I have a boot disk, WIN98 cd, but I cannot get past a c: or a: prompt to get WIN98 loaded what could I be doing wrong?  I tryed fdisk, then format, which I have done before on other systems and got windows up and running.  I have also tryed ez-drive & ez-bios that I have from a different hd that I installed and got up and running.  I have a headache, this cannot be this difficult.  I need some very basic HELP here.  I am very lost and confused at this time.  If you think I can be helped, please explain and or provide simple easy to follow instructions or links for the info that might help me.

Lost & Confused
greenhorn
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Question by:greenhorn050300
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by:cumbo
ID: 6233975
greenhorn,

Can you access the CD. If not, then the Boot disc is not loading the CD Drivers. The Pentium 200MMX should not require
a Disk Manager for the hard drive.

If you can access the CD, do the following;

1. Change to E: or the drive designation for your CD
2. type CD Win98, enter
3 type setup, enter

If you are using a Windows 98 startup disk you may need to add the CD drivers manually. If you are using a Win 98
setup boot disk the drivers should be there already. In this case you should get a menu asking if you wish to boot
with CD support.

Cumbo
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by:mukunth
ID: 6234002
"Basic" help is the right word you used.Right,lets get this going:
1.Check ALL the cable connections.You must have checked it but still....
2.Try to use the boot disk on some other spare system and see if you can access the CD-Rom drive.If you can't,then create a boot disk from some other working Win98 system.
From the information you have given,it seems that the boot disk isn't loading the CD frivers.So check it out first.
Cheers.
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by:fluke32
ID: 6234135
the reason why it may have worked on other pcs is possibly because the cd-rom drive is diefferent on them.... when you boot off the win98 cd, dont forget that it only loads generic ATAPI cd-rom drivers, which means if you dont have an ATAPI cd-rom it will not boot off the cd and you wont be able to browse the cd... best thing to do is type "d:" provided you have only 1 partition on your HDD and so your cd-rom would default as d:, now if it says invalid drive specification or something to that effect... then you need to get the driver disk for your cd-rom drive as it would be assumed that it is not an ATAPI bootable drive... also dont forget you can only boot off a mastered device, make sure your cd-rom in BIOS is on secondary master
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by:trekie1
ID: 6235053
easyest way with a troublesome cddrive is to slave this HD into your other comp.....copy win98 dir off the cd to this HD,,,
#1  remove HD from gateway and change jumper to slave position,,,,install to your other comp as slave
#2 copy win98 dir to this HD from the cd
#3 reinstall into the gateway as master (change jumper )
#4 bootup to a C:prompt,(if you didn't use the format/s switch when you formated use boot disk and at the A: change to C:)),,,at the C:prompt type C:\cd win98    enter   (should say C:\win98 )  now type setup

mite want to reformat drive useing the format/s switch anyway before you do this......just to check drive ,,do this anyway,,,,bootup with bootdisk,,,,type A:\fdisk/mbr   enter (it will appear not to do anything )( this just rewrites the master boot record)  then type A:\format C:/s   this will make the drive bootable,,,,,,check to see if it will boot with out floppy,,,if so then follow above dir.......James
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by:pbessman
ID: 6235150
You might also want to boot with 98 floppy and choose to start setup WITH cdrom support.  You can still do what trekie1 said, but you shouldn't need to juggle the HD.
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by:emery800
ID: 6235369
Great advise above. I need to ask a simple question, however, because it may compound the results you will have.
Did you install EZ? If so you need to rerun the program and remove it or you will be able to install windows when the above comments get you there but you will still not be able to see the windows install. So this should be one of the first steps to validate before doing a full install.
Too clarify the steps:
Step 1: Insert boot disk and restart or power on computer. Disk will load the cdrom driver and take you to the a:> prompt:Step 2: To format your drive From the a:> prompt type: format c: (then hit enter key) Then type: Y (then hit enter key) Once it is done formating it will ask you to label the drive. You can label it with your name or whatever and hit the enter key. Make sure you use upper case letters to label the drive. Step 3 Installing WindowsI have used D as the cdrom drive letter as most systems only have 1 partition on their hard drive. If you have multiple partitions the ultimate boot disk will assign the cdrom a drive letter. Just watch as it boots up and you will see what drive letter the cdrom is assigned. Installing Win95:From the a:> prompt type: d: (then hit enter key) Type: cd/win95 (then hit enter key) Then type: setup (then hit enter key) Once you are here just follow the prompts. Anything that you don't install during setup can be installed later through windows. Installing Win98:From the a:> prompt type: d: (then hit enter key) Type: cd/win98 (then hit enter key)Then type: setup (then hit enter key)Once you are at this point you can follow the prompts. Anything that you don't install during setup can be installed.
Dave
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by:pbessman
ID: 6235378
I havesome systems that boot either way and an AMD 350 system which DOES need it.
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by:emery800
ID: 6235392
Agree, however, I think their bios should support the harddrive with out the disk manager. :>)
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by:newwavepro
ID: 6235765
Depends on the style of MB and that it was original install of Win95.  Most 2.1GB and above really did not become non-EZ install until after Sept 1998 if i recall. IF its a 430TX it will detect the greater than 2.1GB but if its a 430VX it wont, a BIOS update maybe the best solution for the change in hardware configuration. Then do as trekie1 and emery800 have suggested
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by:t0t0
ID: 6236276
This is easy....

There are two easy ways to install Win98 on a PC.

(assuming the hardware is correctly installed and fully working and that the BIOS is correct and/or loaded with default values)

1) Install from CDROM

or

2) Install from c:\INSTALL\WIN98 folder

--------

1) In order to install from the CDROM, you MUST have an ATAPI driver on your startup floppy and MUST configure both Autoexec.bat and config.sys to load the driver when the syetm boots.

The rest is piss-easy.  Insert the startup floppy, reboot the PC, insert the CDROM and enter D:\WIN98\SETUP or something similar depending on how many hard drives or partitions you have installed on your PC.

That was the slow method.  The fast method requires a little pre-setting up.

2) Remove the hard drive from the PC and attach it to another PC and correctly fdisk and format it.

Create the folder \INSTALL\WIN98 on the hard drive.

(These two steps can also be performed in the original PC if you like)

With the hard drive connected to the 'other' PC, copy the windows 98 installation files into the \INSTALL\WIN98 folder either from a Win98 CD or some other source ie, a location on the 'other' PC.

Now that the installation files are copied across to the gard drive, re0install the hard drive into the PC and reboot the PC with a startup floppy (which can be created on the 'other' PC if you haven't got one - no need for CDROM support this time)

When the system reboots, CD into the installation folder and type SETUP.  Win98 will install no probs....

The good thing about this method is that it's a quicker install, and when components are added later, your system won't annoy you by asking for you to insert the Windows 98 System CD - it will just fetch whatever it needs from the copied install files on the hard drive.

I hope this helps....


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by:t0t0
ID: 6236286
Sorry for the ambiguity

The line that reads

"When the system reboots, CD into the installation folder ....."

Should read

When the system reboots, enter the command C:\INSTALL\WIN98\SETUP.EXE from the command line. Win98 will install no probs...



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by:emery800
ID: 6236505
cd meant change directory, the command would be from the drive that you have the win98 folder, at that prompt type cd win98 then you will see c:\win98 or "d" depending on partion, then type setup and hit enter. :>) No install is needed in the command line. Dave
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by:t0t0
ID: 6236636
Well, back in the old days, and speaking as an organised and competent engineer, with good DOS practices, it is preferable to put all your install software into a direcrtory structure similar to the following:

c:
  Install
    Win98
    Monitor
      Mitsubishi Diamond Plus 91
    Printer
      Epson 800
      HP OfficeJet 590
    Video Adapter
      ATI Radeon
    SCSI Adapter
      ASUS SYMBIOS SCSI r1.01
    .
    .
    etc

Although, apart from the windows install files, the others will rarely be used and might only take up precious space.... Now that most of us write CDs, why not burn a personal 'install' CD every time your system hardware spec. changes?...

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by:cumbo
ID: 6236639
t0t0,

You lose me when you say removing the hard drive and installing in a second machine, then removing again and re-installing in the original is faster.

Cumbo
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by:t0t0
ID: 6237639
of course it's faster to install from installation cab files from the local hard drive.... it has a far faster disk access time than the CDROM drive

also, as stated, there will be countless times in the future when your system will ask you to insert the Win98 setup CD - which is annoying to say the least.... an as stated before, by having the installation .CAB files on the system as described, the PC will automatically fetch system files from the local hard drive rather than prompt you to insert the Win98 CD.... (a lot less hassle)

As for removing the hard disk drive from the original PC, this is required in order for you to get the Win98 installation .CAB files onto the hard drive in the first place - let's face it, if you could install Win98 from the original drive as-is then that would imply you can see your CDROM drive from DOS, this being the case, you should have no problems installing Win98 in the first place.

Assuming you don't have a startup floppy (or able to boot from C:) with the appropriate real time ATAPI CDROM support in order for you to 'see' the CDROM drive, the only other way install Win98 is to create a startup floppy with CDROM support OR dump the install files from the Win98 CD oto the hard drive.... Obviously, to do this, you need to be able to 'see' your CDROM drive.  The way around this is to attach the hard drive to another PC as a slave drive and accessing the Win98 CD from that system to dump the files onto the hard drive.

When you re-install the hard drive as a master again, you just simply install Win98 from the 'copied' Win98 files on the hard drive by typing SETUP in the folder where the files were dumped....


On the otherhand..... get yourself a boot floppy.  Add MSCDEX.EXE and an appropriate ATAPI driver (usually a '.SYS' file to the files already on the floppy. (You may have to make room on the floppy by deleting one or more unecessary files, edit the Autoexec.bat and Config.sys files to include CDROM support and reboot the PC.

Keep the startup floppy in a safe place for future use.  In which case, consider including FDISK, FORMAT, ATTRIB and the LABEL command files too.
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by:t0t0
ID: 6237644
Oh, and the SYS command!!!!

hope this has been of some help.....
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by:emery800
ID: 6237923
t0t0: Its called user preference and one has too respect that. The challenge at this site is that one never knows how literate the questioner is and the object is too come up with a fix too their problem. That doesn't mean what you suggest isn't a good idea, however, considrations too what they are using needs too be taken into account also. This is a 2.1 gig and not knowing what they are using for software I wouldn't go putting a lot of stuff on it unless we are comfortable that they won't have a problem.
Each of us thinks our way may be the best and that is natural, however, we learn each day and have to consider the objective and how much time the questioner wants too spend in fixing their problem also. Enjoy your day! :>) Dave
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by:pbessman
ID: 6238070
Is your 98 CD a full version or upgrade?  I know that Gateway does not make checking the BIOS very easy and that there isn't much adjustment on the type of BIOS tehy use anyway.  Did anyone say to fdisk/MBR?  You may want to do that from an A: prompt.  Sounds like your boot file is not getting accessed.
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by:GUEEN
ID: 6238795
I've read through this thread and didn't note that there was mention of detecting the HDD through BIOS first?
Is the HDD correctly stated in BIOS for size, heads, etc. . . Is it set to large, LBA, or whatever - try BIOS first - then mess with the boot disk stuff after.
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by:emery800
ID: 6238826
Don't you hate it when you assume! hehehe Good catch! Dave
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by:cumbo
ID: 6238953
greenhorn commented that he can't get past the "C: or A:" prompt. If he sees the C: prompt the Hard drive is detected.
Unless the C: prompt is for the diagnostics installed from the bootup disk. He must do a Dir at the C: prompt to tell which.

Cumbo
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by:GUEEN
ID: 6239088
My next question is:
What type of cd-rom do you have?

Go here to make a boot disk with cd-rom support:
http://www.drd.dyndns.org/index2.html
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by:Hunty
ID: 6239272
Hmmm, it might do well to wait for comments from greenhorn before proceding further.

FYI  On every computer I build I put a copy of the CABfiles for easy access later.  Some users have been known to throw away CDs that they didn't know what they were for.  Good practice and good business sense IMHO.  :-)
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by:GUEEN
ID: 6239281
OH good idea sis :)
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by:pbessman
ID: 6239410
Huntress, it is also good idea because when certain updates would request the Windows CD if install was done from Hard drive, the search history knows it is there and will look for it.  If other options are used in the meantime when CD is asked for it may revert but can be undone by directing system to look for files in the WIn98 folder.  Some of the older Compaq machines placed the Win95/98 directory off on a seperate partition that would be accessed when doing their "system restoration".
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by:pbessman
ID: 6239418
A Win98 boot disk can boot any of the Win9x Oss with CD rom support.  I mentioned this before and it is on the New A+ exam in case anyone is planning on taking it over again.  They ask about tools and how to make a universal boot disk.  Windows 98 allows CD ROM support and I have been using a Win98 boot disk to load 95 on a variety of machines.  Remember that Just because Windows 95 came on a CD you must have a special boot disk to reinstall using the CD or a DOS CD driver that ships with most CD ROM drives.  That is unless your CD came as a component of a system that was sold to be running 98.
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by:pbessman
ID: 6239428
Are your CD and Hard drives set up with the proper jumper settings?  This too can cause a system to stop at the C:.

On IDE 1(primary) try putting your Hard Drive and CD-ROM and put CD/RW with your ZIP 100 on IDE 2(secondary).

Make sure all jumper settings are correct on the drives accordingly one master, one slave per IDE channel.
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by:pbessman
ID: 6239445
Once that is straight, put your boot floppy into the floppy drive boot up using CD ROM support, fdisk the drive set partitions reboot format partitions.  Create WIN(* directory on Hard drive at a: type "mkdir c:win98", then "copy e:\win98 c:\win98(you must have CD rom in upper drive.  You want to select the CD ROM that is either slave to Hard drive or master on IDE2 depending on how you set up your CD ROM drives it should be the one that is logically first).
When this is done copying <5minutes, "cd c:"  it should give c:\win98 if not from C: type"cd win98".  It should show c:\win98 and when it does type "SETUP" it will begin and you can take it from there.
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by:pbessman
ID: 6239450
Create WIN(* should reag WIN98.  Sorry, trying to type too fast.
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Accepted Solution

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t0t0 earned 200 total points
ID: 6239610
<edited for inappropriate comments>

Much advice has been given but with very little feedback from you.  You do not even know what hardware you have nor whether your hardware is or is not correctly installed.

In order to receive help, you really must provide us with accurate and conclusive details and updates of any progress you have made or failings.

Tech Ed
Community Support
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by:Hunty
ID: 6239687
A little harsh, eh?

pbessman, I agree with the jumper settings and maybe even IDE cable placement suggestion.  When greenhorn put this thing back together he may not have put it back in the original configuration which, in turn, will cause the exact error he's getting.  shekerra's suggestion of having the CMOS detect might help but ONLY if the jumper settings are correct on the HDDs, CDRW and ZIPdrive.  (master/slave)

Cheers!
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by:tman1975
ID: 6239954
He could possibly have his cd-rom run through the soundcard like on some older systems. If this is the case he will need to get the drivers from the web.
www.windrivers.com is a good place tom start.
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Author Comment

by:greenhorn050300
ID: 6248937
You are correct!  I should have kept you all up to date on this adventure. You cannot help someone that does not communicate with you.  In the future this will not happen.

greenhorn
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by:trekie1
ID: 6249352
are you fixed yet?? and if so what was the fix??
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by:pbessman
ID: 6249528
It sounds like t0t0 got it.  But with an answer that was censored?  Interesting?!?
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by:Hunty
ID: 6249709
What the heck happened?
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by:greenhorn050300
ID: 6250270
It was a bad cd drive----tapping on it caused it work sometimes and after warming up it would not spin at all. Each time I started to access the cd drive I got different responses. I guess installing win98 was enough to heat it up, after that it seemed to only spin up by tapping on the cd drive case---all cables were good.  I replaced the cd drive and all is well.  All the components I am using have been setting for at least 2 years.

I had posted earlier but guess it didn't go thru that I have been out of town and could not respond to your questions. I apologize to all for that frustration.  My system is up and running with a new cd drive.

Thanks again
greenhorn

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by:t0t0
ID: 6254889
Thank you greenhorn.

I am currently away until the weekend at which time I will post a fuller comment.

I will address the censorship at a later time.

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