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Expert needs help-wlennon

Posted on 2001-07-29
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Last Modified: 2010-04-27
Hello everyone, I guess working 18-20 hours a day has prevented me from really looking at this.

Possible HDD
Possible System setting caus, or Registry prob.

I have a Dell Deminsion 4100 Non-OEM OS
Pentium 933
FSB 133
256 x 133mg Ram
Primary HDD Maxtor 60gb ATA100 @ 7200 RPM partitioned equeally  #1 WindowsME #2 Was Beta 2 XPPro (program is over, so loaded 98se)
Secondary HDD Maxtor 30gb Ultra ATA66 @ 7200 RPM
Primary TDK VeloCD 16x10x40 CDRW
Secondary 50x Acer CDROM
Cable Modem and 56K Connexant for back-up
ZIP 250 USB
Linksys BEFSR41 4 port Router w/Firewall installed in Router
More..............

Problem started 2 weeks ago, same setup for 9 Months w/no probs.

At boot up, cold or warm...I get message on the screen CPU-Good
Ram-Good

Primary Hard Drive Maxtor s/n xxxxxxx-OK
Secondary Hard Drive Maxtor s/n xxxxxxxx-OK
Primary TDK CDRW-OK
Secondary CDROM- OK

Hit Delete to continue...once I do, EVERYTHING works normal.

Also, I ocasionally hear the dreaded click, and every once in awhile the mouse doesn't load. (Microsoft wheel mouse-PS/2

In the Boot Log there is a device in the Reg. not loading, but does not say where or which.
Scandisk-Good
Scandisk Through-Good
Have all new drivers
Have newest BIOS

have proformed many tests.

Any Ideas?
wlennon
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Question by:wlennon
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58 Comments
 
LVL 3

Expert Comment

by:andysalih
ID: 6332042
this might sound really silly, but you internal battery isnt going flat is it,

im just also wondering if the cmos likes to have that many hardware devices to been seen at boot up.

cmos battery sounds iffy to me.

Andy

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LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6332054
Checked my battery and still good, in fact very good.  On the point of CMOS, I have never had a moments problem in the 8 or 9 months I have run this config.

wlennon
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LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6332082
Wes, there is nothing in the autoexec.bat that is calling this is there?
also try switching keyboards and see if that helps.
0
 
LVL 25

Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 6332150
Wes, have you had any sudden or momentary power problems? These can change the CMOS settings, especially if a brownout occurs during the boot or shutdown process.

Clear the CMOS and return the BIOS to its default settings and then reboot, but into the BIOS setup. Now correct any necessary settings, and reboot again normally.

Now check the BIOS setup to see of the boot process has been enabled.

Dennis
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LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6332160
This my .bat file:

SET PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330  T6
SET CTSYN=C:\WINDOWS
C:\PROGRA~1\CREATIVE\SBLIVE\DOSDRV\SBEINIT.COM
SET windir=C:\WINDOWS
SET winbootdir=C:\WINDOWS
SET COMSPEC=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM
SET PROMPT=$p$g
SET TEMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
SET TMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP

I have sveral other keyboards, and just cheked one and same Boot prob.  What annoys me is I have to hit delete to get to Boot Magic, so I can decide which OS I want to use.

In all my years of troubleshooting and building systems, maintaing Networking Systems, the Dos error messages, usuall refer back to the BOIS, but I went to ver A06 today and still a problem.  uuuugggghhhh

Maybe I could try renaming the Bat file, and see what happens.
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LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6332167
Will give it a try dew.  bbl

wlennon
0
 
LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6332242
Cleared CMOS, and reset BOIS to Setup Defaults.  I had a little trouble getting the system back up afterwards, it would run to Load Setup and stop there.  With a double beep.  Finally got up again, sut it's still there.

I will now rename the Autoexec.bat and see what happens.
Wes
0
 
LVL 44

Expert Comment

by:CrazyOne
ID: 6332246
>>>Also, I ocasionally hear the dreaded click,

Wes is the clicking coming from the master or slave HD or the Zip drive or from one of the CD's?

>>>and every once in awhile the mouse doesn't load.

Hmm could it be a port problem or a misbehaving mouse, maybe you ought to feed the mouse to a cat. LOL

Seriously have you swapped out the mouse or tried using an USB mouse for testing?

Not sure why there are all those SET PATHS in your autoexec. Some of them are redundant and probably not needed.


Spencer
The Crazy One
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LVL 63

Accepted Solution

by:
SysExpert earned 200 total points
ID: 6332253
You have 2 maxtor drives, so I would get the diagnostics for the drives and run them to be sure that neither are getting flakey.

If the drive is causing a delay during startup, it may be intermittently missing the mouse detection or similar.

I hope this helps !

0
 
LVL 25

Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 6332278
Wes,

After clearing the CMOS and resetting the defaults, there really shouldn't have been any problems booting. That's something to be looked into. Bios defaults are the systems safe settings and should always boot.
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LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6332310
CrazyOne this does seem strang in the autoexec.bat.  But I removed it compeletlyand re made itself.

SysExpert: The Primary is only 8 months old, the Other Maxtor is for backups and mp3's only.  Primary does host a Partition, but it has never given me any probs., It is the Primary giving the dbl beeps, but only when the system will not boot.

I will run diagnostics on the drives now, see what pops up.

Wes
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Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6332323
SysExpert, you're exactly right, this is a baffler, the system works fine, it's just an anoyance.  

I trully hate reformats, and very rarely ever do it.  If it get to bothering me too much, I may buy a new HDD even though this one is under warranty, I may buy another, return the HDD, ahd when Maxtor sends me a new one, I'll give it to my Son, he'd love to have a 60gb with the PC I built him, top of the line in every respect.

But I still want to find a fix for this one before I do that.
Wes
0
 
LVL 10

Expert Comment

by:emery800
ID: 6332364
Does it still hang if you try too bootup in safemode? It appears from what you indicated the hangup is coming before that stage.
You could try running hwinfo /ui and see the red text for problems. Remember any coded 22 should be fine. Have you checked device manager in safemode? It really sounds like a fight may be going on for IRQs. You could also disconnect the second harddrive and in fact disconnect all your external hardware, zip drive etc. for a test. Need to isolate some things to get at the root cause in my humble opinion (IMHO). Dave
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Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6332536
Hi emery, it seems to be happening prior to boot.  I think this is either a HDD prob. or BOIS.

I just finished a Maxtor Diagnostics test, the older HDD passed with flying colors, the Primary had one failure, the S.M.A.R.T. Attribute Check failed.  It looks as if the HDD could be the culprit.

The test did comfirm the setup of all drives are good.

Wes

Ps. bbl have something to do, I'll check back tomorrow.

thanks
0
 
LVL 10

Expert Comment

by:emery800
ID: 6332541
It appears you may have found what you were looking for! :>)
0
 
LVL 14

Expert Comment

by:Don Thomson
ID: 6332561
Open your msdos.sys in the root directory  - Post the text from that here - had the same problem on another system - seems that a virus changed this file. Replaced it with one from CD and voila - problem gone.

Also your mentioned Boot Magic - Have your re-installed it. What happens if your boot form a floppy?
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LVL 25

Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 6332608
DTH, are you following the thread here? or are you off in another direction and posted here by accident?
0
 
LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6332705
I didn't even start upgrading the BIOS or the Software or firmware until the boot error appeared.  If I do not find an answer, I'll get the new HDD (Same one) and Maxtor comes with AST-Auto System Tranfer. I used it 9 months ago whe I bought this Drive, works very well.  

BTW-Quantum has bought Maxtor, I hope the quality stays the same.  I have 2 more Maxtors in my other machines and they are 4 and 6 years old.  Still kicking.  This is my first HDD Prob. with Maxtor. I'll keep an eye on this for a few days, I have this machine configured the way I like it.  

Wes
0
 
LVL 10

Expert Comment

by:emery800
ID: 6332713
I have had some problems with the Quantum's, however, about 1 in 10 failure I have found with just about all manufacturer's. They just are pushing them out too fast IMHO. We ordered about a dozen new Dell workstations and it had too be that one lot, just about every harddrive in those units went south and I had too replace them. I think most of them were a lot of 10.2Gig.
Wes: I thought you indicated that one harddrive appeared too have tested incorrectly, if so are you able too remove that one too test the system or does it have your OSs on it? Dave
0
 
LVL 10

Expert Comment

by:emery800
ID: 6332723
Wes: Not related too this problem, however, I see you are running the linksys, it is a known problem that if you are not running firmware of at least 1.38 that disconnects will occur especially too VPNs. Version 1.39 is available and it is pretty simple to flash them. Didn't mean too get off subject but thought you would like the info. Dave
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LVL 25

Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 6332740
Wes, you have it backwards, Maxtor has purchased Quantum as well as another smaller Asian manufacturer.

Den
0
 
LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6332741
Hi emery, I falsed it about 6 or 7 months ago, that may be a new firmware, I'll upload it and see what happens.  If nothing else, it will be up to date.  
Thanks,
Wes
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LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6332788
emeory, it was a new Firmware Flash, thanks must be one I missed. but alas the boot saga continues.

Den, I may not have been paying attention, when the diagnostic I ran, it gave me an error code and to call Maxtor, which is only open Mon-Fri, so I'll call them tomorrow.

I'll probably pick up a new one anyway, and if this on is replaced or repaired, I'll give it my Son.  If I do this, I'll be down for a couple of days reloading.  I decided if I do this I want a clean install.

But I'll have one of my other PC's up for keeping in touch.
0
 
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Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 6332892
Listening ................................................................................................................................................
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LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:RoadWarrior
ID: 6333053
HDD should still be under Warranty and a SMART error should be enough to get it replaced, that's what it's there for. You might have to give 'em your credit card details if you want the new one first to swap stuff over though. First crop of 7200 RPM drives had a lot of returns, as did first crop of ATA/UDMA 66 drives, yours sounds like an earlier ATA/UDMA 100, so, wouldn't surprise me if it's got a problem. Also may be a cable fault, those ATA66 cables can be very touchy about kinks and such by all acoounts, so you might want to try straigtening it out some and giving it a wiggle to see if the errors change, if so, you'll need a new one, and to be more careful with it when you're poking about inside.

regards,

Road Warrior
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LVL 14

Expert Comment

by:Don Thomson
ID: 6333056
Dew Associates

Yes I'm following the thread

Problem is that his system does not boot properly without pressing delete key

msdos.sys  tell the system what to do when it boots - If it's screwed up it will cause the problems he's described. If it's will boot from a floppy okay, then his Boot Magic


wlennon in his post at 1:08PM mentions using Boot MAgic


What's your problem??
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LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6334350
Hi RW, will call support today and give them the SMART error.  The cabeling inside is okay, I tested them.  I manot have mentioned, but I do build and troubleshoot PC's, I have 4 connectors for testing, a 34 pin and 40 pin female/female that are inserted on either end of the ribbon cable that give you test leads to use a VOM on them.

Besides it's a mid-tower with plenty of room.  I even have an incase thremometor w/digital read out, so I'm not getting hot in there either.

DTH, I have run just about any MSDos tests I can think of, that doen't mean I know thm all.  What confuses me, is in ME the Autoexec and Config never had anything in thme before, until I bought the SB Live Platinum Live 5.1.  It needs drivers in dos for emulation.

Thanks
0
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LVL 14

Expert Comment

by:Don Thomson
ID: 6334459
wlennon

If you set your bios to boot 1st from floppy and using a boot diskette for WinME  - do you get the same problem or does it boot from the floppy okay to the A: prompt.  If the problem is still there - what happens if your disconnect the IDE cable from the priomary drive (setting the bios for AUTO in the IDE page?  If the problem still exists - you can rule out the harddrive. If point to a HD Problem - most likely the dual boot program your using
0
 
LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6334666
This site gets buggery too often, that was wierd!!!!

DTH, it's the same, I cannot access the floppy until I hit the delete.

On part 2 of your suggestions, I will not know intil I get home this evening.
Thanks
0
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:WiZaRd
ID: 6334933
Wes if you're going to start disconnecting cables why not take it back to basics & work up
start with just the floppy & Primary HDD (disconnect 2nd HDD & CDrom drives)
if you still have the problem swap the cable & test again
if it's still there (with bios setup defaults loaded) I'd agree on the faulty HDD issue.
as RoadWarrior pointed out a smart failure should be enough to get warranty on it.

Regards

Dean
0
 
LVL 25

Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 6334985
Wes, based upon what you've posted thus far, it's not a dos issue or anything software related, it's the drive. If the Bios is refusing to allow the system to boot properly, this is occurring before the OS even loads.
0
 
LVL 10

Expert Comment

by:emery800
ID: 6335072
Ditto! IMHO :>)
0
 
LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6335173
Agreed, I called Maxtor support and reported the Error Code #T6HS20 for the Attribute Check failure, and when I get home, I'll fax or email them the info they need for an RMA (FREE).

But I do have the origional HDD that came out fo that machine still loaded with the OEM software.  If it boots up normally, I'll know for sure.
0
 
LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6335220
I would like to finalize this tonight or in the morning, that way I get my points back at the first of the Month  LOL.

To help me ONE other Question, and if I end up on a points split, and I am comfortable with the answer, I'll do a two way split adding 100 points, thus a 200/200 split.

The question is more of an opinion.  When I get the new HDD (today), Maxtor has a PERFECT transfer to new disk, have used it twice.  

Would it be better to use the X-fer since nothing else seemed to be wrong, or a clean install, also it includes an 30gb partition, will that x-fer as well?

Thanks
Wes
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LVL 25

Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 6335242
Wes, Perfect Transfer transfers just the content of the drive to an exsiting "partition", therefore if you partition the drive, it will transfer the OS to the first physical drive/partition. As for reloading the OS, the existing should be fine. The drive problem shouldn't have had any effect on Windows, but you need to examine whether or not there are other issues that might be resolved through a clean install.
Dennis
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LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6335258
Dean, I'll try that today around 6:00 CST when I get home. All suggestions are taken seriously, even though I have tried some.  Being an Expert myself, I take this VERY seriously.

I will keep all informed, I do not leave questions unanswered like some of our users, as many of you know, I spent countless hours with Asta to try and clean up sites of thousands of thousands of unanswered questions.

I awaite your comments.
0
 
LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 6335271
I agree with Dennis, you should be just fine copying each partition to the new HD, if you can run defrag on the old HD before you copy it would be better.  But then you probably knew this ................................................
0
 
LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6335528
Okay, is someone playing games here??? Twice I have received notifs from a ComTech and nothing when I click on the email link.

Any way, I should know something tonight.

Thanks everyone for your input, any further comments are welcome, so far this make me proud to be an Expert here, good resonses from all.

Wes
0
 
LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6335670
Hi Dennis and Ray, I have had no prior problems with the install I have now, I am also in the middle of a big Fusion project, and cannot afford to lose the data.  I backed it up last night with Retrospect, but I have not had to use any of my back-ups, and worry about that.

Wes
0
 
LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6336361
I am on another one of my PC's, just seting up the New HDD using MaxBlast transfer, so far partition #1 has copied, and it is now copying Partition # 2.  Very slow on #2, copying sector by sector.

Also got a new Windows XRProfessional, they liked my bug repoerts and gave me another 180 days.  In in a few weeks they said to be expecting RC2.

I'll report back when the Dell is back up and running.

Wes
0
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:WiZaRd
ID: 6337260
Wes

Just another positive opinion ( in case you're a bit iffy about xfer). Seems to me problem is prior to anything to do with software on HDD therefore xfer should be OK.
Hope that's the end of the problem.

Regards

Dean
0
 
LVL 10

Expert Comment

by:emery800
ID: 6340662
The slow transfer kind of confirms harddrive problem, so it appears. Dave
0
 
LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6340732
Okay, I waited until August, so who gets the points will start off the month ahaead of the game.  Besides, I have only used my points on one other occasion.

Status:  Got the indetical HDD, MaxBlast Transfer went without a problem, until I rebooted.  I seems the Partition Quest Manual did not say anything about un-installing Boot Magic, before a tranfer.

I will now have to in-install both to mad the second partition active on the boot.  I have to have the partition hidden and it be achioce when I boot.

Wes, I should know in a few hours.

Ps. The primary transfer went perfect.
0
 
LVL 25

Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 6341575
Let's us know how it progresses Wes. BTW, the PQ manual does address the boot element, but its easily overlooked.
0
 
LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6341620
I have decided to do a point split, as I said earlier, if more advice came my way, I would split by adding another 100 points so th split will be 200 per.

I will have Community Suppoort help in the split.

200 points to SysExpert 07/29/2001 02:00PM PST
200 points to dew_associates 07/30/2001 10:00AM PST

I will lower the points to 200, and make another question for dew_associates

Thanks all for your help.
Wes
0
 
LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6341644
It will not let me, I'll go to CS now.

thanks
0
 
LVL 25

Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 6341648
Anytime Wes. Let's keep the meat of the issue here though until it is fully resolved.

Den
0
 
LVL 2

Expert Comment

by:Lunchy
ID: 6341796
Hi wlennon,

I have reduced points for the split.  Just post the other 200 point question for the other expert in the usual way.

Lunchy
Friendly Neighbourhood Community Support Moderator
0
 
LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6341873
Thanks SysExpert for your help.

Wes
0
 
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Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6342834
Okay, here is the last word, the partition #2 did not transfer correctly.  Work arounds thruogh Partitiom Magic.  Deleted Boot Magic and reloaded it, that way it makes Safety Disks to return you to the Primary partition.  Once that is done, make Boot Magic active, choose the two (or more) that you need to boot to.  I always keep one hidden, that way when I boot up, I have a choice for 15-30 seconds to choose which OS I want to boot to.

Loaded Winodws updated XP Pro ver.  FANTASTIC.  I really do like it.  It needs a little more work, but they've just about got it.  I can't wait till the Home version is out.

All is back to fine working order, and once again, thanks to all who participated.

Wes
0
 
LVL 63

Expert Comment

by:SysExpert
ID: 6342938
I'm glad you finally got this working. I think we all learned something from this one...

0
 
LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6343087
Thanks guy.

Wes
0
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:WiZaRd
ID: 6343441
that Partition Magic is an invaluable tool !
glad you got it sorted out

Dean
0
 
LVL 13

Author Comment

by:wlennon
ID: 6344891
Hi Dean, It's definantly is invaluable.  It makes everything much easier.  I'm and old Dos guy, but that software is Great.

Wes
0

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